| Revision as of 16:54, 18 February 2008 editMikeWazowski (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users33,732 edits →Christopher Knight (filmmaker): response← Previous edit | Revision as of 20:28, 18 February 2008 edit undoSChadwell84 (talk | contribs)31 edits →Christopher Knight (filmmaker)Next edit → | ||
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| :: You can see Persnickety's . It seemed like a baseless personal attack, but I don't know the alleged history between the nominator and the subject. I do agree with you that it should not have been removed. I believe it's against Wiki policy to do so, but I can't find that policy. ] (]) 06:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC) | :: You can see Persnickety's . It seemed like a baseless personal attack, but I don't know the alleged history between the nominator and the subject. I do agree with you that it should not have been removed. I believe it's against Wiki policy to do so, but I can't find that policy. ] (]) 06:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC) | ||
| :::I have no personal bias against the subject - a quick look at my edit history will show a long history of AfD nominations for non-notable vanity articles, the majority of which did not pass muster and were deleted. As I indicated, based on the language on the ] page, deletion of that kind of personal attack was warranted and allowed. As Travellingcari points out, the comments by the SPA are still in the edit history, should anyone wish to see them - I have not called for them to be purged from the history. I would remind anyone reading this discussion to ] and debate the article in question. ] (]) 16:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC) | :::I have no personal bias against the subject - a quick look at my edit history will show a long history of AfD nominations for non-notable vanity articles, the majority of which did not pass muster and were deleted. As I indicated, based on the language on the ] page, deletion of that kind of personal attack was warranted and allowed. As Travellingcari points out, the comments by the SPA are still in the edit history, should anyone wish to see them - I have not called for them to be purged from the history. I would remind anyone reading this discussion to ] and debate the article in question. ] (]) 16:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC) | ||
| ::::'''Comment''' - I have spoken with Mr. Knight and he confirms that the individual referenced by Persnickety, ] who is well known as "therealfennshysa" and was a Misplaced Pages editor by that name, in Knight's statement certainly did launch a "vicious" attack on Knight that lasted several months. Knight said that Hudgens behavior began after he refused for his website to host Forcery, a short movie that Knight had created. Not long after Forcery was viewed by Weird Al Yankovic who liked it and that is when Hudgens in Knight's account "turned nasty" and began posting as "Marty Broxterman" across the Internet slandering Knight and his movie. Hudgens even harassed a newspaper reporter who published a story about Knight and his movie. The pattern continued for many months until Knight traced "Marty Broxterman"'s Internet postings back via IP to WBXX-TV in Knoxville, where John Hudgens is employed as video producer. Knight said that he phoned the station and spoke to the general manager who did not care that his company's equipment and Internet was being abused in that way. According to Knight the harassment stopped when Hudgens was caught in the act and Knight said that was two years ago. A study of MikeWazowski's editing shows that he and Hudgens as therealfennshysa share much history together. MikeWazowski regularly appears to take therealfennshysa's side in editing disputes against other Misplaced Pages editors. The pattern is so strong that . In light of this obvious relationship with or at least bias in favor of one who has a demonstrated history of public antagonism toward the subject of the article including the possibility that MikeWazowski is the same person as John Hudgens/therealfennshysa I believe this calls the entire deletion request into considerable question, in spite of how MikeWazowski tries to defray discussion toward debate about the article's merits which others have upheld here. Recommend again to '''keep''' the article this time on grounds that there is strong evidence enough to question the request deletion and that the request has possibly been tainted with prejudice and that there is severe evidence that MikeWazowski '''is demonstrating personal bias against subject of article'''. ] (]) 20:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 20:28, 18 February 2008
Christopher Knight (filmmaker)
- Christopher Knight (filmmaker) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
Article reads like self-promotion vanity entry for a minor blogger and YouTube artist. Almost all references are to the individual's personal site or other blogs. While there are some claims of notability, subject does not appear to have received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject. Fails WP:BIO, recommend Delete. MikeWazowski (talk) 16:38, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Weak Delete with the two other prominent people (LA Times Art Critic and Brady Bunch Star) it's hard to filter but this appears to be the only coverage of the article's subject. If more coverage can be find, I'd change my !vote. Travellingcari (talk) 17:23, 16 February 2008 (UTC)Change to keep per sources identified below.Article still needs to be re-written to add the sources.Travellingcari (talk) 20:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)- Comment - Many external references and sources have been added to the article by your suggestion. I found tonight that Knight's first film Forcery was viewed and given praise by Weird Al Yankovic. This has been noted in the revised article as well. SChadwell84 (talk) 06:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- I see, you did a very good job wiht that. I've stricken the 'need for re-write' portion of my comment, I had already switched to keep. I'm not sure about listing YouTube as a souce, however, but the ABC and NYTimes, among others are certainly solid. Travellingcari (talk) 06:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - That the commercial was broadcast on a privately owned television station broadcasting to the general public in addition to its being archived on Youtube had me sourcing both. SChadwell84 (talk) 07:01, 18 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by SChadwell84 (talk • contribs) 06:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- I see, you did a very good job wiht that. I've stricken the 'need for re-write' portion of my comment, I had already switched to keep. I'm not sure about listing YouTube as a souce, however, but the ABC and NYTimes, among others are certainly solid. Travellingcari (talk) 06:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - Many external references and sources have been added to the article by your suggestion. I found tonight that Knight's first film Forcery was viewed and given praise by Weird Al Yankovic. This has been noted in the revised article as well. SChadwell84 (talk) 06:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Keep - Notable given many major sources. See, e.g. and . However, as an internet meme, per our convention here on such things the article should be refocused and renamed to be about the phenomenon rather than the person, unless the person himself has any independent notability.Wikidemo (talk) 19:07, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- Keep - The commercial alone earned the individual considerable visibility but the copyright infringement claim that Viacom pressed against Knight and that he won gained him even more and in the interest of Misplaced Pages represents a noteworthy legal precedent regarding digital media and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The individual and his case received significant news coverage in: ABC News, The Wall Street Journal, Wired, Slashdot, ZDNet.com, IMDB Movie News, The San Jose Mercury News, CNET News, Ars Technica, Yahoo! News, Spiegel Online demonstrating international interest in the case, and other major outlets. Also will recommend keeping the article "as is" on grounds that the original work and its peculiar circumstance merits consideration of status other than "meme". Further this person was a candidate for political office whose originality and creative campaign was cited by The New York Times and several other media outlets, which refutes the original claim that the article fails Misplaced Pages's standards for biography. In addition some of the individual's other widely cited creative contributions have received considerable and official recognition: Midi-chlorians article for TheForce.net and his work toward TRANSFORMERS: The Score that was recognized by Warner Records, in addition to others. SChadwell84 (talk) 19:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - While the subject may have received some news coverage, one event does not make a person notable, as in this case, where the majority of the coverage is trivial mebtions. As to the sources you provided, you need to familiarize yourself with Misplaced Pages's policy on reliable sources, many of which your provided sources do not meet. Your links to the Wall Street Journal, Wired, Slashdot, ZDNet, Ars Technica, the San Jose Mercury News, and Yahoo are all blog entries, which are not acceptable as reliable sources. The ABC article contains mention of Knight in passing on the fourth page - hardly major coverage. I would also hesitate to label Knight as an internet meme, since his sole claim to fame is a passing mention connected to a bonehead move by Viacom - something that was over and done with within a few days, and then forgotten by the internet at large. As to the other claims of notability, I hardly think an essay on a fansite is notable, nor has this editor offered any reasons or evidence as to why he believes it to be so. MikeWazowski (talk) 20:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- 'Comment' - Wall Street Journal, Wired, ZDNet, San Jose Mercury News, Ars Technica and New York Times are not reliable sources? SChadwell84 (talk) 21:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- Had they been links to actual news articles, that would be one thing. Blogs affiliated with those entities are questionable, as they are generally written without editorial oversight. I'm just saying, please read up on what kinds of sources are acceptable over what kinds are not. MikeWazowski (talk) 21:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- 'Comment' - Wall Street Journal, Wired, ZDNet, San Jose Mercury News, Ars Technica and New York Times are not reliable sources? SChadwell84 (talk) 21:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - While the subject may have received some news coverage, one event does not make a person notable, as in this case, where the majority of the coverage is trivial mebtions. As to the sources you provided, you need to familiarize yourself with Misplaced Pages's policy on reliable sources, many of which your provided sources do not meet. Your links to the Wall Street Journal, Wired, Slashdot, ZDNet, Ars Technica, the San Jose Mercury News, and Yahoo are all blog entries, which are not acceptable as reliable sources. The ABC article contains mention of Knight in passing on the fourth page - hardly major coverage. I would also hesitate to label Knight as an internet meme, since his sole claim to fame is a passing mention connected to a bonehead move by Viacom - something that was over and done with within a few days, and then forgotten by the internet at large. As to the other claims of notability, I hardly think an essay on a fansite is notable, nor has this editor offered any reasons or evidence as to why he believes it to be so. MikeWazowski (talk) 20:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- I've removed a personal attack by a first time user alleging that I am operating under the influence of another editor. This post included wild allegations of a conspiracy against the subject of this AfD, and posted defamatory allegations about another editor not even involved in this discussion. I would remind this new editor that according to the exact WP:NPA policy they linked to, posting "nonpublic personal information about Misplaced Pages editors" goes beyond the level of mere invective, and so can and should be excised for the benefit of the community and the project. Please, discuss the merits of this AfD, and do not engage in spurious accusations of conspiracy against other editors. If this AfD process results in the keeping of this article, I have no problem with that - that is what this process if for. But based on the original article, which did NOT have any significant references other than Knight's own blog, I felt at the time that the article merited deletion. MikeWazowski (talk) 05:32, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - Has a personal bias driven the move to request deletion? I did not see it but if true that is very valid toward considering in our discussing deletion. That you removed the alleged personal attack yourself without letting others read and judge does not reflect well on you as the one requesting the article be deleted. Significant references to numerous external sources including major news sources have been appended to the article also this evening. SChadwell84 (talk) 06:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- You can see Persnickety's comment in the history. It seemed like a baseless personal attack, but I don't know the alleged history between the nominator and the subject. I do agree with you that it should not have been removed. I believe it's against Wiki policy to do so, but I can't find that policy. Travellingcari (talk) 06:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- I have no personal bias against the subject - a quick look at my edit history will show a long history of AfD nominations for non-notable vanity articles, the majority of which did not pass muster and were deleted. As I indicated, based on the language on the WP:NPA page, deletion of that kind of personal attack was warranted and allowed. As Travellingcari points out, the comments by the SPA are still in the edit history, should anyone wish to see them - I have not called for them to be purged from the history. I would remind anyone reading this discussion to assume good faith and debate the article in question. MikeWazowski (talk) 16:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - I have spoken with Mr. Knight and he confirms that the individual referenced by Persnickety, John E. Hudgens who is well known as "therealfennshysa" and was a Misplaced Pages editor by that name, in Knight's statement certainly did launch a "vicious" attack on Knight that lasted several months. Knight said that Hudgens behavior began after he refused for his website to host Forcery, a short movie that Knight had created. Not long after Forcery was viewed by Weird Al Yankovic who liked it and that is when Hudgens in Knight's account "turned nasty" and began posting as "Marty Broxterman" across the Internet slandering Knight and his movie. Hudgens even harassed a newspaper reporter who published a story about Knight and his movie. The pattern continued for many months until Knight traced "Marty Broxterman"'s Internet postings back via IP to WBXX-TV in Knoxville, where John Hudgens is employed as video producer. Knight said that he phoned the station and spoke to the general manager who did not care that his company's equipment and Internet was being abused in that way. According to Knight the harassment stopped when Hudgens was caught in the act and Knight said that was two years ago. A study of MikeWazowski's editing shows that he and Hudgens as therealfennshysa share much history together. MikeWazowski regularly appears to take therealfennshysa's side in editing disputes against other Misplaced Pages editors. The pattern is so strong that others have noted a relationship between the two also including Hudgens admission to being therealfennshysa. In light of this obvious relationship with or at least bias in favor of one who has a demonstrated history of public antagonism toward the subject of the article including the possibility that MikeWazowski is the same person as John Hudgens/therealfennshysa I believe this calls the entire deletion request into considerable question, in spite of how MikeWazowski tries to defray discussion toward debate about the article's merits which others have upheld here. Recommend again to keep the article this time on grounds that there is strong evidence enough to question the request deletion and that the request has possibly been tainted with prejudice and that there is severe evidence that MikeWazowski is demonstrating personal bias against subject of article. SChadwell84 (talk) 20:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- I have no personal bias against the subject - a quick look at my edit history will show a long history of AfD nominations for non-notable vanity articles, the majority of which did not pass muster and were deleted. As I indicated, based on the language on the WP:NPA page, deletion of that kind of personal attack was warranted and allowed. As Travellingcari points out, the comments by the SPA are still in the edit history, should anyone wish to see them - I have not called for them to be purged from the history. I would remind anyone reading this discussion to assume good faith and debate the article in question. MikeWazowski (talk) 16:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- You can see Persnickety's comment in the history. It seemed like a baseless personal attack, but I don't know the alleged history between the nominator and the subject. I do agree with you that it should not have been removed. I believe it's against Wiki policy to do so, but I can't find that policy. Travellingcari (talk) 06:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)