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Revision as of 20:53, 22 July 2005

This group is apparently regarded as neo-confederate by some, including the Southern Poverty Law Center. This should be mentioned in the article – not that the neo-confederate discription is indsiputable but rather the fact that some have drawn it. Rlquall 18:16, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Good idea. I've added a sentence to that effect, feel free to modify. Cheers, -Willmcw 18:20, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

Ummm ... what exactly is meant by a "neo-confederate group"? The initial principals of the Mises Institute were Lew Rockwell and Murray Rothbard, both of whom were from the northeast, rather than the south. The article on neo-confederate describes the controversial nature of this term in some detail. What are the criteria for including quotations where one group uses an epithet to describe another? - Nat Krause 18:47, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I believe it may be due more to Thomas DiLorenzo and others. . (Also search on "mises" in the SPLC site to find many references). I think that it is NPOV to report that a notable institute has categorized a group in such a way. We are not endorsing that categorization, only reporting it factually. If we can find a denial from Mises, we should include that too. Cheers, -Willmcw 20:00, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

I'm not an expert-God knows-but what is a "faculty connection?" Is that an accepted term within academia to indicate that a particular individual is involved with a group whose name strikes fear into the heart of the affirmative action officer? If it is, then ignore my comment. If not, elaborate on the phrase and say that (_some_) Misesians are proud supporters of Southern heritage. Paul 02:03, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC) Willmcw and Nat--I agree with both of you--the SPLC is a well known organization and their smears should be exposed to the light of day. Let Wikipedians decide for themselves the merit of SPLC and their accusations. Paul 02:05, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Unnamed "Opponents"

• Opponents of this kind of charge view it as merely an excess of political correctness run amok, and frequently note that such so-called politically-correct and liberal types often excuse or whitewash--hypocritically, some say--the genocides and mass murders committed during the twentieth century by governments they would otherwise view as benevolent. Such opponents note that charges of Neo-confederacy and the like fly in the face of the tremendous amount of anti-socialist and anti-Fascist writing on the Institute's website and demonstrated in their programs, e.g. seminars such as the The Economics of Fascism.

Who are these "opponents" and where have they expressed their views? Thanks, -Willmcw 01:20, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

• • Give me a few hours, I'll get back to it. Nskinsella 01:35, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

• • • Adding an entry in your blog so that you can come here and cite it is not the way to write an encyclopedia. -Willmcw 22:09, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

Who knew? I can find other sources, trust me!! haev you ever read Sowell's book about liberals and their intentions? Wikismooches, Stephan Kinsella 22:18, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

• • • So, the fact that some McCarthyite institution wants to call the LvMI "neo-confederate" with negative connotations (note: I'm not arguing that there's anything wrong with neo-conderatism) means that it should be included in an encyclopedia entry on the LvMI? Just becuase some other institution says this? So what. These kinds of smear campaigns shouldn't be in encylopedias. Why not also include all of the things said by numerous other institutions about the LvMI? And why not include responses, so what the article can go on and on about who views who as what. A statement of what the LvMI argues for is plenty enough. -- David J. Heinrich

• Dr. Heinrich has a good point. Palmer's blog is merely a blog. So I will delete references to him too, per Willmcw's policy of not using blogs as the source. Stephan Kinsella 01:25, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

• My bad, Palmer is not listed here, but on the Lew Rockwell site. I'll implement Willmcw's standards posthaste. Stephan Kinsella 01:27, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

• • • Williamcw: You said, "Adding an entry in your blog so that you can come here and cite it is not the way to write an encyclopedia." But, apparently, referring to baseless smears against libertarians (Hoppe) by someone (Palmer) who's made it an ongoing policy to smear this person, is the way to write an encylopedia? Encyclopedia articles should not be yet another place where campaigns of character-assasination are waged. And that holds for individuals and institutions. -- David J. Heinrich
      • Any notable criticisms should be included. The SPLC, love it or hate it, is a notable institution. If the Mises Institute has a response then we should include that too. -Willmcw 02:36, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

• Williamcw: This is not a notable criticism. As for the SPLC being "notable", I've never heard of them before, and their web-traffic is smaller than that of Mises.org and LewRockwell.org by 2 orders of magnitude. Hardly seems significant to me. But accepting that they are, I stand by my assertion that Encyclopedias shouldn't be places where mud is thrown. Absent a response to this rubbish, it is a denigration to the LvMI; it shouldn't be allowed to stand unchallenged, simply because no-one there has gotten around to responding to it.

Have we established that being a "neo-Confederate" is a bad thing? If so, why? Regarding the SPLC, it is widely known even if you haven't heard of them. In any case, they aren't the only ones making the claim. that the Mises Institute is "neo-Confederate". So, it's sourced information. Add a rebuttal from Mises if there is one. Cheers, -Willmcw 05:46, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

• Williamcw: I don't agree that neo-Confederate is necessarily a bad thing. I'm a strong supporter of secession, and that includes the South. What I think is bad thing is the way in which SPLC uses the term "neo-Confederate", with negative connotations. In their view, neo-Confederate = racist. Most likely, in the minds of many people, the same thing is true. This is because the South had slaves. But the LvMI does not support enslaving anyone. What some there support is the South's secession. And that's not a complete generalization, as Tibor Machan is affiliated with the LvMI and argued against Southern secession. In any event, I think the rebuttal offered by Kinsella is fine.

• ..collectivism, Fascism and related views often alleged as being connected with neo-confederate groups..

According to whom are these views often alleged to be connected to neo-confederate groups? As far as I know, the opposite is true. -Willmcw 05:52, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

• Haven't you seen how these PC idiots operate? They lump it all together. If you look at them cross-eyed, you're an anti-semite. Stephan Kinsella 06:25, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Raimondo

I like Raimondo, but not sure it's accurate to list his as "associated" w/ the Institute. Do you have any objective evidence for this? He may be listed as adjunct scholar, I don't know, but hundreds of people are, so that should not be enough. Stephan Kinsella 00:37, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

He's not listed on the site as having any position or even as adjunct scholar. I think they've published some things he's written--but then they've published things by hundreds of people. Stephan Kinsella 00:37, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

table of contents

Willmcw, how do you get the page to display that Table of Contents? I don't understand the code for this. Stephan Kinsella 17:36, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

It's automatic when you create headings. -Willmcw 18:07, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

David Duke

Willmcw, your casual listing of David Duke as another opponent of SPLC is clearly NPOV. Duke is a universally reviled racist. It is gratuitous to add his critique of SPLC. He has no credibility so to add him as a redundant critique of SPLC serves to equate Duke with other critics of SPLC, such as Horowitz. Thereby serving to try to denude all the critiques of SPLC of any force. Thereby trying to subtly bolster SPLC's critique of Mises Institute. Adding Duke to the list of critics of SPLC does nothing constructive or useful, and snidely impugns the other critics of SPLC. It is definitely not NPOV.

What you are doing here would be akin to this: "Exxon is criticized by the Sierra Club, an environmentalist group. Adolf Hitler was also an environmtalist."

Or: "Phillip Morris defends cigarrette smoking as not as harmful as claimed, and as the adult's right. The anti-smoking alliance accuses Phillip Morris of downplaying the risks of smoking. Adolf Hitler, another opponent of smoking, also accused the tobacco companies of immoral profitteering." Would such a comment be appropriate in a neutral encyclopedia?? Stephan Kinsella 20:53, 22 July 2005 (UTC)