Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:42, 29 February 2008

Communications in Dutch: please see User talk:Francis Schonken/Dutch

Overleg in het nederlands: op User talk:Francis Schonken/Dutch a.u.b.

Victionarium → User talk:Francis Schonken/Latinus

Archives: Archive 01 - Archive 02

Oh noes!

You appear to be in violation of the very important official rule known as RFA Cliche #1. Would you like some help in remedying that? >Radiant< 15:37, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

• <grin> I meant this. >Radiant< 15:46, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Indeed, my point was that while you're not an admin, you do behave like one, and hence my offer to nominate you. I do not believe adminship is (or should be) limited to vandal fighters; rather, anyone with reasonable experience and judgment could be one. Indeed, the three basic questions are (1) what are you going to work on (policy sounds like a reasonable answer); (2) what part of your earlier work are you proud of; and (3) how did you handle yourself in conflict (it is nearly inevitable to have been in conflict, and I've seen people who consider a lack of any conflict a lack of experience). For reference, I had done zero vandal fighting before I was adminned, and very little since.
  • Anyway of course the decision is yours; but you would be a valuable addition to the mop mob, and your chances are better than you estimate. Yours, >Radiant< 16:19, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

List of LGB people/A-E

Why does the fact that it is a daughter article mean it can't have information? I can certainly add the stuff I added to all the other articles as well, if you wish, but why should it be deleted? Dev920 (Tory?) 21:26, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I have added the same information to all the split pages. Have you seen my proposal on the main talkpage about converting the lists to tables? Dev920 (Tory?) 21:52, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

"dont overdue non-standard use"

• the "non-standard use" is noted in the phrase, "not necessarily." John Adams' and political scientists in general well recognize that under a constitutional monarchy, the king is no more or less power-capable than a President. sorry, i cant apologize for the injection of some sophistication. you and the other guy are simply not aware of this. i believe there is a 3-reversion rule on wiki, this is my second, and so...reverted. Stevewk 16:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

• check my partial reversion. you might find it acceptable. Stevewk 16:32, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

• hey, hey, c'mon. if the Roman Republic had dictators which the Roman senate could not overrule, then you're correct, but thats not the case. the American founders would not have touted the virtues of the Roman Republic so highly if that had been the case. you're just mistaken on this. i'll be taking it to Wiki. Stevewk 16:43, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Three revert rule on Republic

• Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly, as you are doing in Republic. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you. Stevewk 15:51, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• if you're a admin, i dont know why you havent stated it so far, so i'm going to assume you're not. the talk on this page, shows that you're simply intent on making sure i dont get the edit. so, i'm going to go ahead and report this to someone who i know is an admin. in the meantime, i'm restoring the template warning from before, and as much as i know you dont want to believe the rules apply to you, we'll see. Stevewk 15:51, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

List of legendary kings of Britain

I notice you've put a fiction tag on the list of legendary kings of Britain. Looking at the article I think it could be better written, but it seems pretty clear that the list is not historical in the slightest and comes from literary and legendary sources. I also don't see any problem with articles about historical figures also mentioning legendary traditions associated with them, so long as the history and legend are kept clearly separated - as I've tried to do with several of the historical figures who appear in the list. Could you please explain where you think there's a problem distinguishing fact from fiction? --Nicknack009 23:13, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

You've been reported to Misplaced Pages for Official Harrassment of Stevewk 16:58, 22 October 2006 (UTC) and for violation of the 3-revert rule. further instances of harrassment or violations of the 3-revert rule will result in your being BLOCKED from editing.

Seen it yet? It's really good.

• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Francis_Schonken_.28talk_.E2.80.A2_contribs.29:_knowingly_filing_a_false_3RR.2Fsock_puppet_report

Stevewk 01:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Republic edit war

Please see my comments at Talk:Republic --YFB ¿ 17:05, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Watch your tail, Schonkster

• you've once again been reported to YFB and Admin. central for restarting your edit war and continuing to harrass me. You can blow smoke, but you cant hide that false 3R report you intentionally filed. Stevewk 15:54, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Request for Comment at Talk:Republic

I've opened an RfC per Durova's suggestion. Please add your statement. --YFB ¿ 00:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

MfD's on User:X/Title pages

Could you please make it all one MfD page - it will save arguments/discussion, which considering they are all identical, will be similar, being spread over three pages. If you do this, just tag two of them with {{db-author}}, and add the others to the header of the one that stays. I would suggest the one to be merged into would be User:1ne, is it was the original. Daniel.Bryant 08:34, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry - I did it for you. Cheers, Daniel.Bryant 09:22, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Notability (web)

This is concerning http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Notability_%28web%29. You rverted and refered to http://en.wikipedia.org/WP:WOTTA. I understand that not all my edits were proper names, but why did you not simply change those specific ones rather than rverting the entire article? I will fix those that were not proper names if you do not have an issue with it. Please reply on my talk page. Thank you. FactsOnly 08:26, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

You reverted again. Please reply on my talk page with your concerns. FactsOnly 08:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Hello. Are you going to reply? FactsOnly 08:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I replied on Misplaced Pages talk:Notability (web), so if you care, you may reply.FactsOnly 09:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

You may delete this section if you wish as I believe we have come to a mutual understanding, though I may be incorrect. FactsOnly 09:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly, as you are doing in Misplaced Pages:Notability (web). If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages under the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. --Francis Schonken 09:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

You must be mistaken. You are the one who is undoing my edits, and may be blocked for that if you continue. The previous revision you want, prior to my edit, will not be achieve by you reverting every change I make. If you revert me once more, I will have to contact an admin. Thank you. FactsOnly 09:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Notability (web)

As you've probably noticed I've protected this page for the time being. I find the differences between both versions rather minor and hardly worth edit warring over. I believe you both equally guilty of edit warring, and have no intention of blocking either of you. My recommendation would be to drop a note on e.g. WP:3O to get a third opinion; other than that, have a nice cup of WP:TEA and happy editing. >Radiant< 12:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

• Needless to say the protection is not permanent, so in the near future you'll be able to "just rework it". I do not think asking a third opinion is premature if a revert war is going on. Alternatively, either one of you could have decided to not revert and instead wait a couple of hours. >Radiant< 13:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

RfC for Rrfayette

Hi. I have filed an RfC about the conduct of Rrfayette (talk · contribs). Since I mentioned you as one of the editors who have tried unsuccessfully to talk some sense into him, I thought you'd appreciate the info and perhaps would be able to give your two cents on the subject at . Thanks. Pascal.Tesson 06:05, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Copyrights

Hi. You reverted my post to a post that states: External sites can possibly violate copyright. Linking to copyrighted works is usually not a problem, as long as you have made a reasonable effort to determine that the page in question is not violating someone else's copyright. If it is, please do not link to the page. Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States (Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry). Also, linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on us. If the site in question is making fair use of the material, linking is fine.

The reason you gave is that policy first needs to be agreed upon by the community and you also wrote "Don't link to copyvio, that's all." This reasoning was not placed on the talk page.

The community has not agreed upon the reversion that you left on the Misplaced Pages:Copyrights. In addition, copyvio makes no mention of linking to copyvio as being a copyright violation. When you say 'Don't link to copyvio, that's all' as Misplaced Pages policy, you are talking about removing a good 20% or more of the external links in the 1,000,000+ articles on Misplaced Pages. If the policy remains as you propose (that linking to a copyright infringing site is contributory infringement), the extra administrative overhead is needed to protect Misplaced Pages and to protect the Misplaced Pages editors. What is really going on is people are sneeking around deleting entire references from articles as part of disrupting Misplaced Pages and justifying their nefarious actions on the policy to which you reverted the Misplaced Pages:Copyrights article. -- Jreferee 06:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

A B C

Look, what's your problem? Of course there isn't any consensus about source grading; it's a new idea. It's not a policy proposal; nothing is mandated. It's just a toolbox. There's nothing to argue about. Nor is there really anything to discuss; you may think it won't work but you can't prove it. You can either try it and see or you can wait while other people try it and see. After it's been used for a little while, perhaps fixed and tweaked, then there's plenty of room to comment. Why are you trying to hold a debate in edit summary or by tag warring? John Reid ° 02:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Doing something about the ridiculous date autoformatting/linking mess

Dear Francis—you may be interested in putting your name to, or at least commenting on this new push to get the developers to create a parallel syntax that separates autoformatting and linking functions. IMV, it would go a long way towards fixing the untidy blueing of trivial chronological items, and would probably calm the nastiness between the anti- and pro-linking factions in the project. The proposal is to retain the existing function, to reduce the risk of objection from pro-linkers. Tony 04:51, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Ephemeral

It means passing, fleeting, here-today-gone-tomorrow, impermanent. -GTBacchus 18:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

The idea being that, if the source isn't there tomorrow for someone to check, then it isn't really verifiable, right? -GTBacchus 18:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure there's a better way to phrase what I was trying to say there. I certainly wasn't trying to claim that WP is a crystal ball, or anything like that. The idea is that ephemeral sources, like websites that just leave stories up for a week and then take them down, aren't good sources. IF we know ahead of time that a source is of that nature, then we aren't going to base an article on it, right? I'm not married to the particular wording - I'm sure we'll figure out the right way to say everything. -GTBacchus 18:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

de la Rochefoucauld

Antoine de la Rochefoucauld lived centuries after the de La Rochefoucauld's you mention and did not capitalize the "L" nor do sources list him as doing so. In this case, consistancy equals inaccuracy. See: Museum of Fine Arts Boston The only sourses which use capital L are those that copied the error from Misplaced Pages. House of Scandal 19:11, 15 December 2006

The bad sourses I referred to are online sources. The sourses I quote are Museum of Fine Arts, Boston and Christy's in London. I am neither a vandal nor an idiot and I did nothing to justify you being rude to me. You are not an example of how Wikipedians should behave or interact. House of Scandal 19:28, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Since you have remembered how we are supposed to treat each other here, we can keep it "L" and I'll redirect the other page. To treat a historical person's name like a password (i.e. case sensative, one letter wrong and it doesn't work) is an error based on the modern mindset. House of Scandal 20:21, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Ref code

Thank you very much for fixing the code and for explaining to me.--Berig 11:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

A great edit at Haakon the Red. I prefer your version to my own.--Berig 10:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Refs

I don't see why you want the whole texts from the articles of Nationalencyklopedin. It is the most excessive demand for references I have ever seen on WP. If you assume bad faith on the part of the one who provides the references, you should assume bad faith concerning the whole texts as well. If you seriously doubt my references, I recommend that you go to a large library where they have the encyclopedia and verify yourself or subscribe to Nationalencyklopedin online. Since you are Dutch you should understand the Swedish text quite well.--Berig 20:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I still think that your demands are a bit over the top. Not even featured articles do this.--Berig 08:55, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I am just surprised that an obscure little king about whom there is so little documentation that there will never be an FA on him should need such excessive referencing.--Berig 10:06, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:Overcategorization

I wanted to comment on what you said at WP:VPP without Jeff interfering. As is, WP:OC serves, if anything, to enshrine the uselessness of specific sets of categories that comes up too frequently at WP:CFD, and to avoid lengthy repeated arguments and the hunting down of numerous precedents. It is a spur of Misplaced Pages:Categorization in the same way Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style (abbreviations) is a spur of Misplaced Pages:Manual of style. It is separated out of the simple fact that its inclusion there would lead to a needless cluttering of the page. Circeus 22:42, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Categorisation of people

Please explain the reasons for your disapproval of my text. I have answered all the queries that have been raised, leaving your persistent reversions as the only stumbling block. You say that it is not consensus, but only three people have taken part in the discussion, one of whom has not responded with any criticism since the drafting of the new text. I cannot speak on his/her behalf, but he/she seems to be satisfied. Your complaint that it is "not an improvement" is impossible to address without further details, and is, in my opinion, wrong. The previous text was confusing, poorly formatted and ill-written; mine has corrected several glaring errors. You have mentioned "obvious" typos, errors and so on, but have not provided any examples of what these might be (or at least none that I have not corrected since). I have twice asked on the talk page for details of problems, under the assumption that if none were forthcoming, then there would be no problems with the text, but you keep reverting despite not having suggested any grounds for improvement on the talk page. I would prefer it if you would work with me to improve the text; wholesale reversion is not constructive. This all makes it very difficult for someone like me who is trying to make things better. Like I say, all I'm asking for is a bit more detail. --Stemonitis 13:27, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm still waiting for details of what is supposed to be wrong with my replacement text. Apart from yourself, there is consensus. As far as I can see, I have dealt with every concern that has been raised, and have used the suggestions that have been made to improve the text until it was in a state that everyone could be happy with. Yet you continue to revert without any further information about why you are doing so. Since I changed the draft, you have come up with not a single valid criticism of it. Please either do so, or desist from reverting. We all appreciate the work you have put into the guideline in the past, but now it has been improved, and you should allow that. I am also a little irked by this one-way conversation. I have tried by various means to engage you in discussion about the draft, but the only input I get is in terse edit summaries of reversion. This is not the most helpful way of contributing, by any means. --Stemonitis 01:04, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Schnabel about Prem Rawat

I added in the comparison with Bhagwan/Rajneesh in the article Prem Rawat. You are right that the comparison should have been in the article, though I personally also think that Rawat is intellectually unremarkable not just compared to Rajneesh, but also in an absolute manner. Everbody involved (including current followers and Maharaji himself) will agree that his strong point was never intellectually sophisticated teachings. Andries 15:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Mael-Num

You may want to take a look at what this user is saying about you here: Misplaced Pages:Suspected_sock_puppets#User:Momento ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 14:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Phantiswiki

Hi, re. your edit to Giorgios Siantos, it's true that the copyright status of Phantiswiki is not quite as clearly expressed as here on WP, but their General Disclaimer page does mention it being under GFDL (). To my mind, that sounds sufficient. As for it not being a RS and how then to best link to it, see the thread at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)#Copying articles from external wikis. Thanks, Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Events naming convention

I would have appreciated seeing some discussion from you on the talk page, where I justified my addition, before you reverted it. This convention has been in general use, and is now adopted by the related WikiProject, Disaster management. Another editor stuck it in the related section on the numbers convention, and I copied the text from there not to "cherry pick" but merely to have consistency across the applicable guidelines. Akradecki 19:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Events naming convention (II)

I see you made this update, possibly based on what I said on the talk page. Thanks for that. Would you possibly be able to discuss your revert here on the talk page? Your edit sumary refers to several sections at the main talk page for naming conventions, but I'm not entirely clear what you were saying there, if I'm honest. Could we start the conversation again at the events naming convention talk page, or shall I copy stuff over to that talk page from the other talk page? I don't really want to do the latter, as I might end up misrepresenting what you are saying. Thanks. Carcharoth 22:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:NAME Nutshell

You reverted my edits to the nutshell WP:NAME twice--please refer to WP:RV. You seem to object to the concept of a change, rather than the content of the change. You claim that consensus is required, but this is not possible if you simply revert and do not participate in discussion. The changes did not appreciably change the meaning or intent, IMHO, but convey essentially the same information with a higher signal to noise ratio. See also the discussion on Template_talk:Nutshell, then please explain why a revert was justified, rather than a re-edit on Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions Dhaluza 11:27, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Please respect WP:3RR and address changes made in good faith on their individual merits. Dhaluza 21:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I see you also reverted the nut at WP:NPOV. I would appreciate your comments on that action in Misplaced Pages talk:Neutral point of view#Nutshell revert as well. Dhaluza 11:50, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Proud to be your sock puppet

I came here to leave you a note to compliment you on your even handed editing and respect for Wiki and saw Jossi's remark headed "Mael-Num". But now I'm going to say "I would be proud to be your sock puppet".Momento 09:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Weakening of WP:V

This is disgusting that two or three editors can claim "community consensus" and weaken the policy. I have reverted it. CyberAnth 02:26, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: List of compositions by Ludwig van Beethoven

Thought you might like to know: I submitted a Featured List Nomination for this list, of which you seem to be a major author. I did some tinkering around the edges (lead, references, section headers, etc.) first. Cheers! —Turangalila 01:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:LISTS

Hi Francis. If you recall we had a vigorous debate last year about Lists in WP. I have added some wording that I feel explain the application of WP:NPOV to lists. Given that you were quite involved in these discussions then, maybe you would be interested in discussing the merits of that wording. See Wikipedia_talk:List_guideline#List_contents. 22:22, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Tarnation pattern1 800x600.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Tarnation pattern1 800x600.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 08:34, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Hipparchus (disambiguation)

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Hipparchus (disambiguation), by Maurog (talk · contribs), another Misplaced Pages user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Hipparchus (disambiguation) fits the criteria for speedy deletion for the following reason:

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Hipparchus (disambiguation), please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Please note, this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion, it did not nominate Hipparchus (disambiguation) itself. Feel free to leave a message on the bot operator's talk page if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot. --Android Mouse Bot 2 05:51, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Res publica

A "{{prod}}" template has been added to the article Res publica, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the article may not satisfy Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice explains why (see also "What Misplaced Pages is not" and Misplaced Pages's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. WHEELER 02:55, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Relevance drafts ready for editing/comments

Hi Francis,

Father Goose and I (WikiLen) have developed competing versions for a possible guideline on relevancy. I note you have previous participated at this project. Your contributions would be timely now.

• Draft REL2 REL2.1 by Father Goose
• Draft REL3 by WikiLen

My draft is the current proposed guideline only because I made mine after Father Goose did his. This is not to suggest either version is favored. Thanks for your interest... —WikiLen 03:49, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Wikipedians/Belgium

I thought you would be interested to know about that page's MfD nomination, if you aren't already aware. — The Storm Surfer 01:43, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Call for editor participation at Relevance

Hi Francis Schonken,

Misplaced Pages:Relevance requests your presence — see, "Call for editor participation" at the talk page. —WikiLen 17:23, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Redirect of Bill Gates for president

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Bill Gates for president, by Closedmouth (talk · contribs), another Misplaced Pages user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Bill Gates for president is a redirect to a non-existent page (CSD R1).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Bill Gates for president, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. --Android Mouse Bot 2 02:54, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Redirect of Bill Gates for President

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Bill Gates for President, by Closedmouth (talk · contribs), another Misplaced Pages user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Bill Gates for President is a redirect to a non-existent page (CSD R1).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Bill Gates for President, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. --Android Mouse Bot 2 02:54, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

A Neutral point of view Barnstar

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		As the top contributor to Neutral point of view, you deserve this barnstar. Thank you! Jreferee 05:46, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Re:Sejny quote

Francis, I respectfully disagree that the larger quote seems ok. It is not ok per WP:UNDUE and WP:REDFLAG. It is not something that needs to be described in detail in the article about the city (it is already described in detail at Sejny Uprising). See my arguments at talk.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  05:08, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

A request

Hello Francis Schonken, your input in Sejny article was very helpful. You see similar situation occurred and in this article, with the same practice of infomation removal . etc. Could you please see the discussion here and provide your comments on this issue? I would be very grateful to you. M.K. 12:05, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Contents lists

Howdy. Just a pointer to 2 discussion threads that are ongoing, concerning the contents lists you so boldly moved today!

• Misplaced Pages talk:Contents#Contents pages, and lists of lists which I'd asked for feedback for, from the Pump, Mailing list, ANI, individual admins, and an RfC (policy).
• Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Lists of basic topics#Overlap with portals and other concerns.

There are a few more details in this recent thread at User talk:Dbachmann#Contents pages, in particular my comment 3rd-from-last beginning "Everybody except ...". Hope that helps. --Quiddity 18:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Contents lists

Please refrain from moving any more contents system pages from the main namespace, such as Lists of mathematics topics (Misplaced Pages's math-related table of contents) until the contradiction between WP:LISTS and WP:ASR is resolved.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist 07:49, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

That move was too bold. You should really have discussed such a massive move before implementing it. The discussion as to whether they violate ASR is at Misplaced Pages talk:Lists. Please move them back until a consensus has been reached. The Transhumanist 22:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:Groupe des six

Category:Groupe des six, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. – Cgingold (talk) 03:39, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Portal:Mathematics/Lists

I moved to Lists of mathematics topics to Portal:Mathematics/Lists. Originally I closed the request as no consensus, but on looking at the discussion at the contents talk page, it seems that there probably is. Can you have a look at the links? I'm not sure whether we should leave them through the redirect or change them to a direct link so readers see it's a portal page. Let me know and I'll clean up as necessary. Angus McLellan (Talk) 00:58, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Index lists

Hi. I've removed all mention of a new namespace, including your comments responding to it, (because it was only serving as a distraction, thanks to your good comments). I hope that is acceptable, and I invite you to further clarify/refactor your comments there, so that I can paste the whole thread to VPP this evening. I'm hoping for it to be as clear as possible first. Sound good? Reply here is fine. :) -- Quiddity (talk) 19:58, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Thread moved to the Pump: Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)#Index Lists. Thanks. -- Quiddity (talk) 19:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

“On the Origin of Species”

Please do not move the page.

• Charles Darwin named it “On the Origin of Species”, lets not try to change history.
• The book was published in 1859. In the 1850s, 60s, up to the mid 70s it always had “On”.
• Harvard University Press also published it with “On”.
• Even current reprints use “On the Origin of Species”, ISBN-10: 0674637526.
• Also “On the Origin of Species” ISBN-10: 0486450066
• Also “On the Origin of Species” ISBN-10: 1592242863
• Also “On the Origin of Species” ISBN-10: 1551113376
• Also “On the Origin of Species” ISBN-10: 1434616851
• Also “On the Origin of Species” ASIN: B000JML90Y
• Also “On the Origin of Species” ASIN: B00079PSPG
• The photograph on the main page also says "On the Origin of Species".
• Encyclopedia Britannica also uses “On the Origin of Species”.
• Almost every college, university and high school uses "On the Origin of Species".
• Some businessman decided to take off the “On” over a decade after the book was published so he could make a quick buck, why fall into his trap??--Persianhistory2008 (talk) 06:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

It is clear you have more than one user name. Maybe I should ask for an IP address verification. I have given all the proof that is needed. If your bulling continues, I will report you to wiki. Your defense is you just don't like it, mine is backed by documentation.--Persianhistory2008 (talk) 07:16, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Info needed

Hi. Can you help me understand what is wrong with adding suggested guidelines to the Criticism essay? I did read it, and it didnt seem to contain any guidance that would help editors of the many "Criticism of.." articles get a feel for what is expected in those articles. Did I miss some issue/point in that essay? Noleander 17:33, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, what did you mean when you said "we have a separate page on this, which never got beyond "essay" stage. If you want a guideline on this, improve that page, and re-propose as guideline."? I think I did just what you suggested? Noleander 17:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Edits on WP:V

I really liked that last bit about using multiple reliable sources - when something is controversial, this can make quite a difference. Its possible for one source to err or be misunderstood; its unlikely that multiple high quality sources would all make the same mistake. Nice editing :) Shell 20:56, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

BLP Comment

Thank you for your suggestion on Jimbo's talk page re: a request I had to clarify the policy on BLP so that the importance of not having undue weight is made clear. I am involved in a discussion on the Bio of Peter Yarrow where a similar issue has arisen. Could you please include your thoughts at the following request for comment: Talk:Peter Yarrow#RfC: Conviction and pardon.

I am trying to protect this subject from having a 37 year old incident take precedence in what is supposed to be a thoughtful and complete bio of the man. We would welcome your honest input on the subject. Thank you --Jkp212 (talk) 00:55, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

William of Orange

"I'm a Dutch speaker myself, living in Belgium:" Ah that explains why you don't know who William of Orange is ;-) --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 13:54, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Usertalk:Jimbo Wales

Why have you reverted my edit, which was to remove text only a handful of users on this website can read from a central talkpage? Lradrama 13:03, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

You may also want to note that the official policy talks only about English usage on this website: Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style (spelling). Lradrama 13:08, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Infact, I have reverted it back, per Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines#Good practice. Lradrama 13:13, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:"La Reine Margot" example

Template:"La Reine Margot" example has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. RichardΩ612 22:49, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Talk page for help modifying policies

heya, I was just about to use the talk page of Wikipedia_talk:How_to_contribute_to_Wikipedia_guidance to answer a question in the edit summaries, and then noticed it was a copy of the whole mess from the help page. Perhaps that particular mess could be left at the old location? That would be nice :-)

As to why not use the proposal process? Well, the proposal process is slow, inefficient, and arguably does not work at all. You would think that with the amount of heat it puts out, it must have some merit, but when we did the numbers, it produced surprisingly little light, even less than we anticipated. --Kim Bruning (talk) 18:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Double

Note under Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Zeraeph-SandyGeorgia/Workshop#Motions_and_requests_by_the_parties a rename had already been suggested. Might send your support up there. Marskell (talk) 22:36, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Jossi

I noticed your note to Jossi being reverted with an accusation that it was trolling. I am not sure if your accusations of admin abuse are true, or if Jossi's accusations of trolling are true, or both. But I would like to get to the bottom of it. Since your message to Jossi was ignored, I will listen to your concerns. Please be specific in why you think there was admin abuse, citing relevant policies and diffs and I will look into it. Or if you prefer you can just forget about it.

Peace. 1 != 2 16:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I see Jossi has returned the note to the page. Perhaps I am not needed. My services are still available if you wish. 1 != 2 16:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I have looked over things and have given my impressions here:, responses welcome. 1 != 2 18:54, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Nonsense of Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (people)/Temp

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To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (people)/Temp, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 05:00, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Galileo not "put to death"

You wrote in a comment at Misplaced Pages:Verifiability: "Galileo was right. He couldn't cite RSs. He was put to death."

Most people would not say that Galileo was "put to death".

From Galileo#Church_controversy:

"After a period with the friendly Ascanio Piccolomini (the Archbishop of Siena), Galileo was allowed to return to his villa at Arcetri near Florence, where he spent the remainder of his life under house arrest, and where he later became blind. It was while Galileo was under house arrest that he dedicated his time to one of his finest works, Two New Sciences. Here he summarized work he had done some forty years earlier, on the two sciences now called kinematics and strength of materials. This book has received high praise from both Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein. As a result of this work, Galileo is often called, the "father of modern physics." Galileo died on 8 January 1642."

Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church. -- Writtenonsand (talk) 21:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow

Wow ... it's really amazing how views on wikipedia have changed so much. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 12:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Npov PS Faq

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I just hate reading through pages of ArbCom "comments" to get to the meat ;) I'm lazy.Wjhonson (talk) 18:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment at Misplaced Pages talk:Content forking

Hi there, I must admit to feeling a little annoyed that, by my reading of your reply on the talk page, you assumed I was trying to change a guideline to give an advantage in a current dispute. I may have been misreading your comment, but this was a good-faith attempt to raise awareness of a conflict between two guidelines. Sorry if I misunderstood what you were meaning. Tim Vickers (talk) 23:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you re V

God. I shouldn't let myself be sucked into these mini-wars. Marskell (talk) 22:01, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The Criticism

Not sure if you saw this page Talk:Prem_Rawat/criticism but there I tried to document the evolution of the criticism after you merged it into the article a year ago. I suggest that rather than reverting to a much older version, that might lose good edits too, you just pick one version of the criticism and place that section into the current article. What do you think? David D. (Talk) 17:03, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

So you don't mind if I undo your change and add one of the more recent version of the criticism? David D. (Talk) 17:40, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

replied at my talk page to keep the discussion intact. David D. (Talk) 17:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Thousands of edits lost

You have just deleted thousands of edits here. Please consider improving the article rather than dismiss the hard work of editors over a period of more than one year. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I overwrote some intermediate constructive edits in the process too. Are you serious? You deleted sources, hundreds of copyedits, new material, and the hard work of many editors, including non-involved editors. Come and help improve the article instead. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:49, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Jossi, the version that overwritten by Francis was based on a complete new rewrite by Rumiton and Momento. They had in their rewrite deleted thousands of edits by many authors. I am disappointed that you feed Francis with information that you know very well to be one-sided. Andries (talk) 15:59, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Do you know which version best represents the post GA review? David D. (Talk) 16:07, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

In light of Andries comment here, what you suggest might well be best. My only problem with topic related criticism, which is clearly preferable, is that users such as Rumiton and Momento overtime can easily strip out the topic criticism. Although with more eyes on this article now they are less likely to be able to dominate as before. Interestingly Jossi also put the Prem Rawat article in citizendium. It got some critical response there too David D. (Talk) 17:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I think that you start to understand why I could no keep Prem Rawat balanced

What was I supposed to do when Momento (and to a lesser extent Rumiton) reverted all my edits on Prem Rawat] and when repeated attempts at dispute resolution failed ? I could not do anything. Andries (talk) 22:52, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

FYI

Momento (talk · contribs) reported to WP:ANI/3RR, again. You may wish to weigh in there. Cheers, Cirt (talk) 13:42, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

FYI, please see the newer report. Cirt (talk) 13:56, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Prem Rawat/Jossi Fresco

Hello Francis, thanks for your note. I don’t have an interest in communicating with Jossi Fresco, Momento, or Rumiton anymore, nor am I interested in editing the Rawat articles now or in the future. I’ve been beating my head against that brick wall for years with no success. It’s not worth the aggravation for me. FYI, I posted my comment under Jossi’s “Declaration of Intent,” section on the Rawat talk page because I prefer not to post anything on his user talk page, and I was not trying to be disruptive (that is a frequent accusation by premies of any editors who happen to be former followers). I certainly have never harassed Jossi in any way. I have always condemned that type of behavior on the Prem Rawat Talk Forum.

It’s been quite difficult to try to work with people who hold the strong belief that one is a member of a hate group; that’s a belief that the Prem Rawat cult fosters on it’s various Elan Vital website faqs and amongst each other. They also hold the belief that ex-premies operate as a cabal-type group, which is false and quite laughable. I had no knowledge of the Register article until it was published last week when someone posted a link to it on the Prem Rawat Talk Forum. Jossi’s accusation about people colluding to disrupt the Rawat articles is patently false and sheer fantasy. I do hope that the premie-editors will no longer be allowed to foster the cult's “ex-premies are a hate-group” allegation on Misplaced Pages, and I also hope that Misplaced Pages editors and administrators will pay close attention to that particular issue because it's happened a lot on this website. Thanks for your concern, Francis, and best wishes to you -- Cynthia Gracie Sylviecyn (talk) 18:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

See my replyAndries (talk) 20:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

3rr report

I have blocked User:Momento per your 3rr report. I consider the interference by an involved admin on that report to be inexcusable. Someone will likely object to my block based on the absurd time delay, but so be it. Cheers, Vsmith (talk) 02:17, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Possible intimidation

\{\{subst:ANI-notice}}

Reason: 3RR notification on Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources highly unjust and intimidating, as well as highly disruptive to a constructive solution.

Rokus01 (talk) 22:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Frequent violating of BLP

Your unilateral insertion of a clearly unsuitable link into the Prem Rawat article without discussion is disruptive editing. The links are specifically banned by BLP and that has been clearly discussed on the talk page.Momento (talk) 00:40, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

online Dutch Sources about the DLM and Prem Rawat

• http://www.bezinningscentrum.nl/teksten/wim/divinelightmission.pdf by Wim Haan
• Schnabel, Paul. Tussen stigma en charisma: nieuwe religieuze bewegingen en geestelijke volksgezondheid ("Between stigma and charisma: new religious movements and mental health"). Erasmus University Rotterdam, Faculty of Medicine, Ph.D. thesis, 1982. Deventer, Van Loghum Slaterus, ISBN 90-6001-746-3. Chapter II, page 33, Chapter IV page 99, page 101-102, Chapter V, page 142 http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/schn016tuss01_01/index.htm

These are only online since about one year. Andries (talk) 09:51, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Frequent BLP violations report at Admin noticeboard ]

Francis Schonken is repeatedly violating BLP policy on the "Prem Rawat]] article by linking ]]]] to a anonymously written, self published web sites that contains enormous amounts of unsourced OR and such derogatory unsourced claims as Rawat is "an 'alcoholic'" and "Rawat smoked cannabis "four or five nights a week" when in residence at Malibu"]. If I try to remove this link in accordance with BLP policy that "Material about living persons available solely in questionable sources or sources of dubious value should not be used, either as a source or as an external link" he threatens me with a 3RR on my talk page despite BLP policy saying "Editors should remove any contentious material about living persons that is unsourced, relies upon sources that do not meet standards specified in Misplaced Pages:Verifiability, or is a conjectural interpretation of a source The three-revert rule does not apply to such removals." I would appreciate it if Admins will ensure BLP policy is upheld.Momento (talk) 11:43, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Invading my space

Francis, you have recently posted 4 messages on my talk page, please stop.Momento (talk) 10:41, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Not helpful

This is not helpful, Francis. Let uninvolved admins weigh in unimpeded. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:58, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I must say for the record, that I find your behavior at WP:AN, your insistence to refactor a proposal I made, and your lengthy pleadings to be insufferable and most unhelpful. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 15:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Alternate account

FYI, I created an alternate account (Will Beback NS) for when I'm using a public Wi-Fi connection in order to minimize the risk of having an admin account compromised. Several other admins (and even regular users) do likewise. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 23:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Waterboarding RfM

A Request for Mediation has been filed on the Waterboarding article concerning the content dispute in the first six words of the article. You have been named as a party and your participation would be appreciated. I believe this is the best approach to an amicable resolution of the dispute. Please indicate your agreement here. Thank you. Neutral Good (talk) 20:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Request for mediation not accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Waterboarding. For the Mediation Committee, WjBscribe 17:46, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Trying this again

A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Waterboarding 2, and indicate whether you agree or disagree to mediation. If you are unfamiliar with mediation on Misplaced Pages, please refer to Misplaced Pages:Mediation. Please note there is a seven-day time limit on all parties responding to the request with their agreement or disagreement to mediation. Thanks, Neutral Good (talk) 02:28, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Uncessary

Your insistence in asking these questions is most unwelcome and unnecessary. I have no intention to disclose anything beyond what I have already disclosed at User:Jossi/Response, User:Jossi/About, and User:Jossi/Disclosure. If I ever edit these articles again and my edits and or behavior warrants further disclosures, you may ask these questions. Otherwise don't. Enough if enough. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 22:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Do you care?

So, let see you refactoring this, which is an obvious violation of WP:BLP. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 15:42, 29 February 2008 (UTC)