| Revision as of 12:32, 16 August 2005 editRobert McClenon (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers197,310 edits Antiseptics?← Previous edit | Revision as of 13:57, 16 August 2005 edit undoAgiantman (talk | contribs)549 edits →AntisepticsNext edit → | ||
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| ==Antiseptics== | ==Antiseptics== | ||
| Is there a source for the claim that Freeman did not believe in antiseptics? In any case, how is it relevant to Rosemary Kennedy? There is no statement that infection was involved in her deterioration. It is relevant to Freeman in establishing that he was a quack, but it is not relevant to Rosemary Kennedy. ] 12:32, 16 August 2005 (UTC) | Is there a source for the claim that Freeman did not believe in antiseptics? In any case, how is it relevant to Rosemary Kennedy? There is no statement that infection was involved in her deterioration. It is relevant to Freeman in establishing that he was a quack, but it is not relevant to Rosemary Kennedy. ] 12:32, 16 August 2005 (UTC) | ||
| You continue to ignore sources and citation. The source is there: "Great and Desperate Cures: The Rise and Decline of Psychosurgery and Other Radical Treatments for Mental Illness" (Basic Books, 1986). If you type in lobotomy and freeman and antiseptic, you will find several others. \ The lack of antiseptic would be pretty significant if you had an operation wouldn't it? The results from poor Rosemary's "operation" went horribly wrong, even by Freeman's standards. Who knows why? Was it the lack of antiseptics? The story of Rosemary Kennedy is the story of her lobotomy. It is a relevant that Freeman did not use antiseptics. (If it wasn't, you wouldn't be fighting so hard to keep it out.) BTW - just between you and me - you are on the Kennedy PR payroll, right?--] 13:57, 16 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 13:57, 16 August 2005
Copyvio
Large portions of this article seem to have been copied from the CNN obituary. It would appear to be violating copyright.
- I think I removed all the plagiarized stuff - it was added by a single anonymous user. Do you see any other copied text? Rhobite 18:25, Jan 8, 2005 (UTC)
Death
How did she die? --NoPetrol 01:41, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Lobotomy
"Tragically, the operation did not have the intended effect." What other effect might have been expected from a prefrontal lobotomy other than reducing the subject to, in Freeman's words, "the level of a domestic invalid or household pet"? Gazpacho 13:15, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- I've added a reference that explains that point. Medical knowledge back then was, not surprisingly, far behind what we know now. It seems that Joseph Kennedy based on his decision on bad advice from the experts about the effect of the operation. JamesMLane 07:16, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Father
Let's be totally honest here: Joe Kennedy didn't want an embarassment in his family and never expected the results of the labotamy to be any different. The man helped piss half of Europe away to Hitler so that he could turn a dollar with more ease. His daughter's health, happiness, and life could not compare to this megalomaniac's desire for power and the advancement of his sons. Joe Kennedy was a true American monster and it is time we stopped appologizing for him and his brood.
In Nigel Hamilton's biography of John F. Kennedy, "JFK: Reckless Youth", Hamilton made allegations that Rosemary was sexually molested by her father.
Joe Kennedy shattered?
Unless someone can state the biographer and work, this line should be deleted. I can't find it. "Biographers have reported that her father was shattered by the results of the operation."
Restoring NPOV
Here's why I'm reverting the latest changes:
- I don't think the "shortly after" sentence is accurate, but, even if it is, there's no purpose to the juxtaposition here other than to convey a POV about Joseph Kennedy's motivations.
- Joseph Kennedy consulted with a neurologist. What he was told is relevant to this article, in explaining the circumstances under which the lobotomy was performed. The anon has deleted this information, presumably because it makes Kennedy's decision seem more reasonable and thus undermines the anon's anti-Kennedy agenda. What was later alleged or established about Freeman is not relevant to this article, but the anon has inserted it, again for no purpose but the smear job.
I'll also point out that, knowing that any Kennedy-related article would be likely attract this kind of POV editing, I provided a citation for the statement that the anon deleted. JamesMLane 01:05, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
It is not POV to mention that she was lobotomized shortly after she was introduced and stumbled at a royal appearance. If it reflects negatively on Joe Kennedy, its left to the reader to conclude that. JamesMLane's pro-Kennedy politician POV editing is nonstop and appears on several Kennedy sites.--66.176.129.11 12:36, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
Antiseptics
Is there a source for the claim that Freeman did not believe in antiseptics? In any case, how is it relevant to Rosemary Kennedy? There is no statement that infection was involved in her deterioration. It is relevant to Freeman in establishing that he was a quack, but it is not relevant to Rosemary Kennedy. Robert McClenon 12:32, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
You continue to ignore sources and citation. The source is there: "Great and Desperate Cures: The Rise and Decline of Psychosurgery and Other Radical Treatments for Mental Illness" (Basic Books, 1986). If you type in lobotomy and freeman and antiseptic, you will find several others. \ The lack of antiseptic would be pretty significant if you had an operation wouldn't it? The results from poor Rosemary's "operation" went horribly wrong, even by Freeman's standards. Who knows why? Was it the lack of antiseptics? The story of Rosemary Kennedy is the story of her lobotomy. It is a relevant that Freeman did not use antiseptics. (If it wasn't, you wouldn't be fighting so hard to keep it out.) BTW - just between you and me - you are on the Kennedy PR payroll, right?--Agiantman 13:57, 16 August 2005 (UTC)