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List of landmarks destroyed by Communist run governments

• Articles for deletion/List of landmarks destroyed by Communist run governments
• Articles for deletion/List of landmarks destroyed by Communist run governments (2nd nomination)

List of landmarks destroyed by Communist run governments (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Blatant POV and clear soapboxing article. I am not telling these landmarks were not destroyed, yes these were destroyed but this do not warrant a separate article. This is not encyclopedic article. Yes it is true that Stalin destroyed numerous Churches, but not all those Churches are notable. This article is a list, if this is a list, it should include all the notable landmarks which were destroyed. This article is inappropriate because landmarks were destroyed by Capitalist, monarchist countries also. Numerous churches were destroyed by Muslim countries, numerous mosques were destroyed by Christian-majority nations, numerous templates were destroyed by Muslim majority nations. In this way other articles can be created like List of landmarks destroyed by Capitalist run governments, List of landmarks destroyed by pro-America governments, List of landmarks destroyed by the Western countries, List of Churches destroyed by Muslim countries, List of mosques destroyed by Christians etc. etc. It is POV to single out communism when numerous landmarks were destroyed by non-communist and religious governments. If this article stays, then Misplaced Pages is simply an anti-Communist hate site and propaganda machinery. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 06:13, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Also 1.there is no source to prove that the destruction of these landmarks were sponsored by the government, not by some lynch mob and 2. these landmarks were destroyed to establish communism, not for any other reason. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 10:40, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

• Delete indiscriminate collection of information. No suggestion in title/article that the buildings were all destroyed for ideological reasons, much less common ideological reasons, even supposing a "common" ideology existed in Russia, Cambodia and Cuba. --Relata refero (disp.) 08:08, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. --Kleinzach (talk) 09:43, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
• Please delete that as an attack page. That also might be libelous. Alexius08 is welcome to talk about his contributions. 10:30, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
• Carryout the move recommended by the last AfD and work on including notable landmarks destroyed by non-communists. Jasynnash2 (talk) 10:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:48, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per nom, and due to total absence of WP:RS. I had a quick look at the GDR section of the list, and of the four places in the GDR that are on the list and have articles, it seems highly contentious whether they were "destroyed by a Communist run government". Three were heavily damaged by allied bombing, and the other was apparently accidentally burnt down by drunken Russian soldiers. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 14:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per everyone else. POV and pointless. Moreschi (talk) (debate) 15:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. This is a very interesting list. The list of landmarks destroyed in Russia seems to be correct. Needs some sourcing though.Biophys (talk) 18:43, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
• Do what Jasynnash2 said --Pwnage8 (talk) 19:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - Blatant POV bordering on a politically-motivated attack page. People have been invading each other and knocking down each others structures for eons, there's no need of a memorial page for all of them, nor for these. Each monument seems to already have its own article,. that is enough. Nobody of Consequence (talk) 21:26, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

• Comment. The sole purpose of this list is to say how "really really bad communism was". That's not encyclopedic. Misplaced Pages is not a forum to push any POV. Delete. Begone. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) how "really really bad communism was". 22:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

• Keep, it's an interesting list, and brings together a large number of related incidents that would otherwise be hard to locate. Cultural destruction is an important subject. The only problem with it is that in its present state it is probably not comprehensive enough to be completely un-POV: it is only as comprehensive as the number of Misplaced Pages articles it can link to. I can't see how the above comment by AlasdairGreen27 can be serious. The article is mostly a list, it doesn't say anything much beyond that - if a list of destroyed monuments destroyed by Soviet Russia and its puppet states indicates something negative about Soviet Russia and its puppet states, then maybe they should have thought about that before destroying the monuments! Are we going to start removing certain lists about Nazi Germany because they show how really bad Nazi Germany was?

• Additional Comment. The deletion proposer says that this list would be similar to a list of landmarks destroyed by Capitalist run governments, or pro-America governments, or Western countries, or Muslim countries or a list of mosques destroyed by Christians. All of these are spurious comparisons. None of them would be clearly defined bodies acting as a single unit. The Soviet system almost always tended to act like a single body, which is why a list that concerns only that body is valid, as valid for example as a list of battles fought by a particular country or power-block. Meowy 00:51, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment: No this is not "spurious" comparison. Off course List of Churches destroyed by Muslim country or List of mosques destroyed by Christians is a single system because the entire Muslim world act as a single body under the same ideological umbrella. And all your above comments are original research. This article documents some indiscriminate collection because this do not mention if these were destroyed for ideological reason or not. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 03:30, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

• Keep as a record of a notable, quantifiable, well-documented phenomenon. Of course we need sources, and those should be fairly easy to find - many are even in the respective articles. As to the contention that "if this article stays, then Misplaced Pages is simply an anti-Communist hate site and propaganda machinery" - well, you know, in killing 100 million people, and in destroying these priceless treasures, and in perpetrating all manner of other horrors, Communism itself showed boundless amounts of hate, and vehement hatred of Communism is a perfectly acceptable emotion and even motivator for composing such articles. Naturally, however, that emotion should be kept out of the mainspace, as is the case here - these are simple facts documenting a small portion of what was wrought by one of the greatest plagues to strike humanity, not manifestations of "hate". Biruitorul (talk) 02:35, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment: It is not only communism that killed people, it is Christianity or Islam which also killed numerous people. And what is your personal view on communism is not the world view on communism. As you personally hate communism, you will find numerous people who hate Islam and you will find numerous people who hate Christianity. As you personally view communism as "evil", you will find numerous people who view Islam as "evil", and you will find numerous people who view Christianity as "evil". Views on any particular ideology is always polarized. Misplaced Pages is not supposed to be written from the evil neocon view to spread New World Order and to establish the resident of the White House as the dictator of the world. You will find plenty of sources which are fanatically negative towards religion. This is not the place for debating over the ideology, this is the place for debating if this particular article is POV or not. And as several people have pointed out above, this is a blatant POV soapboxing and pointless article with indiscriminate inclusion criteria created to serve the author's POV. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 03:29, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what the author's POV is. I do know that if done neutrally and with citations, such a list can illustrate one of the effects of Communism, and do so without trying to push a particular POV. (By the way, deaths caused by Christianity and even Islam are several orders of magnitude below what Communism killed.) Biruitorul (talk) 05:06, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

You do not understand the author's POV is your personal matter. Deaths by Christianity and Islam is not below if not higher. Off course to the monarchists, religion is the only truth in the world. But monarchist/capitalist view on communism is not the world view. The original issue is that this list is indiscriminate collection which do not specify if these landmarks were destroyed for ideological reason or not. This can be only done neutrally if any this kind of list includes landmark destruction by religious governments also. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 05:14, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. —Biruitorul (talk) 02:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. —Biruitorul (talk) 02:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Latvia-related deletion discussions. —Biruitorul (talk) 02:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions. —Biruitorul (talk) 02:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Estonia-related deletion discussions. —Biruitorul (talk) 02:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hungary-related deletion discussions. —Biruitorul (talk) 02:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
• Note: I have removed this AfD from list of Poland-related deletion discussions because this article is not related to Poland.— Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 03:34, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

• Comment: There may be an article titled List of landmarks destroyed for political motivation which will include landmarks destroyed by Muslims countries or Christians which will be easy to find, but this kind of article which single out one particular ideology is POV. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 03:29, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

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