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Revision as of 01:40, 19 May 2008

Palestine Start‑class Mid‑importance

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Jenin Jenin

Shouldn't it be mentioned that this director is extremely controversial and Jenin Jenin is nothing more than a propaganda piece, as ruled by a French court? I'll add this section someday if no one else does, but the wording etc. may need adjustments. -- Ynhockey 17:20, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Propaganda? Seems more like mass censorship IMO. But I agree with you, that is a subject that needs to be brought to light. Avador 17:05, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Arab citizen

To the one who changed "Arab citizen of Israel" to Israeli-Arab: You won't find 'arab-israeli' a category on Wiki anymore, and that's because the term is out-of-date, as in, only in use by a small number of Arabs. Think of it kind of like the word 'negro.' Perhaps you didn't know this before, now ya do. I'm going to change it back for consistency's sake as well as Bakri's sake (I've met Mohammed Bakri and I can tell you that while he does call himself an Israeli at times, and at other times, 'Palestinian,' he does not ever call himself an 'Israeli-Arab.') BestLamaLoLeshLa (talk) 04:00, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

This sounds a bit like WP:OR. I'm keeping an open mind, but I'd prefer you convince me with sources (no disrespect to what Bakri doesn't call himself). Bakri was born and raised in Israel and was a regular in Tel Aviv and Israeli mainstream theaters (I've seen him also) and was an accepted member of the Israeli community up until he made the Jenin Jenin film, i.e. for the majority of his life. I'm also not aware that a "Arab with Israeli citizenship" is an accepted terminology anywhere, a google search for the expression comes up with less than 300 results. I'm thinking the term would work better if he had made the majority of his life outside Israel but this is not the case and his status as living in Israel while he became prominent is an integral part of the biography IMHO. Thoughts/Suggestions? Jaakobou 09:44, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

'Arab actor in Israel' was what was originally written and people (I'm assumed not Arab) went in and changed it to Arab-Israeli a bunch of times. This has been the subject of a lot of discussion and it has been agreed that 'Arab citizens of Israel,' which is very common terminology, is what should be used consistently, since it offends (almost) no one. Again, I refer you to the category "Arab citizens of Israel" - when you type in "Arab Israeli", it re-directs there. (i.e. the main point is not that Bakri does not call himself an Arab-Israeli, but that wiki no longer does)LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 03:31, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Bakri son

Yes I agree Saleh Bakri is not that notable, but shouldn't there be section where we could put that he is the father of Saleh, blank and blank Bakri and he is married to blank. You know, some info on his family. --Al Ameer son (talk) 16:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

That would be appropriate, of course. -- Ynhockey 17:02, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Great, now I just have to find the name of his wife and if he has any other kids. On another note, does anyone know the month and date Bakri was born? I couldn't find it. --Al Ameer son (talk) 17:55, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Ehhh, actually: absolutely not: according to Misplaced Pages:BLP#Privacy_of_personal_information we should not seek month and date of birth of less notable living persons: the year is good enough. Regards, Huldra (talk) 02:51, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Good point there; year it is. --Al Ameer son (talk) 06:39, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I was looking for material about his son, Saleh, when I saw the red link, but I didn't get much more than links to the 2007 movie and a link to some acting agent that represents him (Saleh). Input on the year he married to X and they had Y children together is certainly appropriate, of course. Jaakobou 18:45, 17 May 2008 (UTC) more accurate. 18:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I found that he has a wife and six children at the bottom part of this source, but no names, except of course Saleh which was mentioned in a different source. Enough to add? --Al Ameer son (talk) 04:13, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't contest the information, but I don't really care for a link to 'Democracy Now!'. Let me think about it for a day; Maybe others will provide input also (or other sources) that will help me decide. Jaakobou 12:59, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I think including the son's name is fine. It seems reasonably common to include spouses and children and is pertinent information when the child follows the father's footsteps. Notability is essential when the subject is the focus of an article but Saleh is not the focus in this article. Also, this for jaakobou, if you don't want a link to Democracy Now, a citation does not have to be included in the article for something as non-controversial as a son. According to WP:V, sources must be presented for "any material that is challenged or is likely to be challenged". That is probably not the case here. (Not that the Democracy Now article says anything that is not already included in the article.)--Regents Park (Feed my swans) 13:39, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I was thinking just that. i.e. to suggest we list it down without linking to Democracy Now. Al Ameer son, I trust there's no objection to this? Jaakobou 18:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be cited though? Would it be wrong for the ref note to say Bakri said this in an interview with Amy Goodman or something along those lines. --Al Ameer son (talk) 20:11, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I can't say I like that suggestion. It Sounds a little like we're doubting Bakri himself by saying "Bakri said in an interview that he has 6 children"; phrasing sounds like he may have made an error that we want to correct later in the page by citing another interview or a mistress with conflicting accounts. Anyways, I'm willing to rethink this issue some more, give me a day; Maybe there will be other thoughts as well. You think we should open this for wider discussion maybe? Not sure I'm inerested in a big fuss. I'm thinking that (probably) no one will object a ref-less mention so eh... anyways, I'll think about it a bit more.

With respect, Jaakobou 22:07, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Certainly not worth a full-blown discussion, I just think everything should be cited, especially the part about Saleh following in his father's footsteps. This part wasn't even in the Democracy Now! ref, so I'll just add the ref for that which was the Internet Movie Database. The wife and six children part will not be contested unless the article goes through a GA review. --Al Ameer son (talk) 23:00, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Not sure I follow the importance of "following in his father's footsteps" for Saleh on the M. Bakri article. I think we can add this into a personal-life section under "his son Saleh appeared in 2007 in a the Israeli film The Bands Visit which won several awards including the Israeli film Academy Awards.(imdb link)". Thoughts? Jaakobou 23:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Perfect. We'll go ahead and move the family info there too. --Al Ameer son (talk) 01:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

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