Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 11:38, 20 May 2008

Note: As a discussion of Moulton's block is ongoing at WP:AN, I've unprotected this page so that Moulton can comment on-wiki rather than being confined to email or offsite postings. MastCell  17:06, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Archives

Archive 1 (August-September 2007)

Archive 2 (November-December 2007)

Biographical Information

I am currently a Visiting Scientist at the MIT Media Lab in the Affective Computing Research Group. My long-term field of research is the Role of Emotions in Learning. I am currently working on the role of StoryCraft as a traditional method of learning.

I am also a volunteer science educator in the Discovery Spaces at the Boston Museum of Science.

My other affiliations include the Institute for Intelligent Systems at the University of Memphis and the School of Communication and Journalism at Utah State University where I assist in the curriculum in Online Journalism.

I was formerly a Visiting Scientist in the Educational Technology Research Group at BBN Systems and Technologies. Additional professional background information can be found here.

My interest in writing encyclopedia articles in my areas of expertise dates back to 2004 when I co-authored an 8-page article entitled "Electronic (Virtual) Communities" in the Encyclopedia of International Media and Communications.

Some of my other research interests include puzzlecraft, building online communities, and the functional characteristics of rule-driven systems.

I have a Home Page at MIT, a Personal Home Page, and a personal blog called Moulton Lava. There is also a collection of essays and lighter pieces on Moulton's Utnebury Pages.

Objectives

My primary objective here is to achieve a respectable level of accuracy, excellence, and ethics in online media, especially when the subject at hand is an identifiable living person.

My secondary objective is to examine the efficacy of the process and the quality of the product achieved by any given policy, culture, or organizational architecture.

My tertiary objective is to identify and propose functional improvements to systems that are demonstrably falling short of best practices.

Status

I am currently under an indefinite block that was imposed on September 11, 2007, by KillerChihuahua as a result of an RfC brought against me by members of the WikiProject on Intelligent Design. I am not seeking to be unblocked. Rather I am seeking a review of the circumstances surrounding my encounter with the WikiProject on Intelligent Design.

On May 15th, Dihydrogen Monoxide initiated a discussion on WP:AN calling for a review of the case, in the wake of an incident involving an edit war between The undertow and FeloniousMonk over disputatious content the latter sought to publish in contravention of WP:BLP on User:Moulton — a page that had been deleted since last February.

Sam Korn is a former member of ArbCom who posted on WP:AN an open invitation to me to send him E-Mail presenting my case.

After a few rounds of E-Mail, Sam Korn has posted his analysis and opinion of the case.

His view is that the RfC and its aftermath were flawed:

What is important here is that the action taken was not wholly appropriate: that is indicative of the process being wrong. I don't know who Moulton would like to make this statement: I for one am happy to say "no, we didn't get this one quite right".

This is a major step towards recognizing and rectifying the problem as I perceived it.

I would also like to acknowledge the significant roles played by Lar and GRBerry in the WP:AN discussions, and the instrumental role that Privatemusings played in bringing the issues to wider public awareness through the medium of the NTWW Skypecasts.

Moulton (talk) 07:08, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

A Collegial Dissent From Moultonism

:So, you wander over to WR, talk shit, promote shit, encourage others to spread shit, come back from WR, without admitting that your view of NPOV might've been shity and might've caused a shitload of nonsense, and then, you beg to be allowed back to spread more shit? No shit, really. Nah. •Jim62sch• 23:07, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Jim, this kind of comment is hardly constructive - Alison 23:21, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

No, its just a demonstration of his class :) ok ok I'm not being constructive either ...195.216.82.210 (talk) 11:04, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

While I understand the frustration, I have to say I agree with Alison that this is a bit impolitic and inappropriate here.--Filll (talk) 13:20, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate the collegiality of your dissent, Filll. —Moulton (talk) 13:51, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Jim, you asked me this at ArbCom, "I'd at least appreciate an apology for those ill-considered comments nonetheless." Does this apply to you here? Or do you expect accountability from others that you don't apply to yourself.? Fair question. Cla68 (talk) 14:16, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Stricken. I apologise for the poor choice of words, but I'm afraid that the point still remains -- I simply cannot condone Moulton's actions here or on WR. If it were just a case of being snarky, I wouldn't care (how could I? I'm snarky myself), it was, and still is, everything else. •Jim62sch• 18:38, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Background

For the benefit of those who are directing their attention to my case for the first time, let me provide a little background and perspective...

An RfC against me was brought by members of the WikiProject on Intelligent Design, in the wake of content disputes on five or six of their articles — notably the biographies of James Tour, Rosalind Picard, and David Berlinski, and the articles on Icons of Evolution and A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism.

I had been editing barely a week or two in their bailiwick, before User:Filll formally filed the RfC, which he and User:ConfuciusOrnis had been preparing on September 3rd and 4th in Filll's user space.

The RfC was dominated by members of the WikiClique on Intelligent Design, who acted as Plaintiff, Arresting Officer, Prosecutor, Bailiff, Judge, Jury, and Executioner. ConfuciusOrnis even filled in the Response Section of the RfC on my behalf, and signed my bottom line endorsement to it, taking selected portions of unsigned material I had begun to construct in Filll's rehearsal area. I thought that was a tad irregular and mentioned it to Kenosis.

On September 11th, User:KillerChihuahua, who is also a member of the WikiClique on Intelligent Design, summarily terminated the RfC and proceeded to an indefinite block, bypassing the WP:CSN process. She gave as her reason, "Disruptive POV OR warrior with no interest in writing an encyclopedia. See Rfc.", overlooking the {fact} that I had credentials in co-authoring an 8-page peer-reviewed and editorially vetted article for a four-volume print encyclopedia.

User:Yamla then placed a notifying tag on my talk page, giving a different reason ("repeated abuse of editing privileges") with the link going to WP:Vandalism. If you look at the RfC, you will discover that the word "vandalism" never appears. Thus both posted reasons for the indefinite block made no sense to me as they were at odds with the facts on the ground and with the content of the charges on the RfC.

In view of these confusing perplexities, I managed to submit a Request for Arbitration to ArbCom, asking them to review troubling aspects of my case.

Note carefully that I did not ask to be unblocked. For all I knew, I deserved to be blocked for some valid reason, in accordance with some comprehensible review of my alleged transgressions. And so I only asked ArbCom to opine on whether I had been afforded diligent due process in the course of the RfC.

My section of the Request for Arbitration begins and concludes as follows:

Moulton's Reqest to ArbCom

I am asking ArbCom to review whether responsible admins participating in my RfC and its aftermath afforded me diligent and conscientious due process, without regard to the whether the final outcome would have been justified by a fair exercise of due process.

...

I am asking ArbCom to investigate and determine whether the allied editors and admins participating in my RfC and its aftermath engaged in a familiar Kafkaesque formulaic script routinely applied to a substantial number of cases similar to this one, without regard for conscientious and due diligence in the exercise of due process.

...

I am asking ArbCom to look beyond the details of any single case for a recurring pattern of unfair and draconian treatment that bespeaks an unbecoming trend in the disregard of reasonable standards for the exercise of due process.

ArbCom declined to take up the question.

Moulton (talk) 20:25, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Fact finding mission

Moulton, you indicate at WR that you are misunderstood by some at WP. In an attempt to increase understanding I will ask some questions, whose answers might provide information relevant to your relationship with the WP community, so we know better what to do. Please respond to the following:

1. Are you aware of the mission statement of the WikiMedia Foundation and do you accept it?
2. Are you willing to interact with the Misplaced Pages Community and its leadership as if (WP:AGF) we are honestly trying to make the world better by providing free-of-cost and copy-left information to as many people as we can within the limits of our abilities, resources and our other priorities in life (helping here does not mean I am going to neglect my other aims in life)?
3. Are you willing to try to learn how we do things here and "go with the flow" (i.e. not knowing breaking the rules even if you are trying to change the rules)?
4. Do you accept that Misplaced Pages "as is" is found useful by millions of people around the world?
5. Do you understand that we the Misplaced Pages community think Misplaced Pages as is is a success and, even though it needs to be better, because it is already a success we are not going to radically change its process due to theoretical observations or even examples of other internet communities?
6. Do you understand that the encyclopedia, its community, its software, and its rules are in constant flux; ever evolving; that WP:BLP is recent; that "stable versions" is coming on line soon; that we are encouraging acedemics to get involved; that we are an encyclopedia in the making and the processes that have so far created a useable source of sourced claims in an encyclopedia format are not those we have used and will use in creating finished vetted versions?
7. In particular, with regard to that last item: Do you know anything about our distribution of vetted articles in DVD format to children in third world countries? (see http://meta.wikimedia.org/Wikipedia_on_CD/DVD)
8. Do you know anything about the non-English language wikipedias?
9. Do you know anything about the non-Misplaced Pages WikiMedia projects? (Might you be happier at WikiVersity)?
10. Do you think you should learn more about us before you try to tell us how to better govern ourselves?

WAS 4.250 (talk) 21:52, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

With respect, question 10 is a bit leading. Most of them are, come to that. naerii - talk 22:09, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

And BLP isn't recent, it's been around since 2005. Really, WAS. naerii - talk 22:10, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

2005 is recent. And "been around" does not capture its even more recent influence and strengthening. But your other comment is dead-on. The questions are leading - designed to inform as well as question. WAS 4.250 (talk) 22:16, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

3 years ago isn't recent. And I mean 'leading' in the sense that there's only really one right answer, isn't there? naerii - talk 22:18, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

The word "recent" means something different to you and me, I guess (I'm an old man, and also I was here before I created the BLP proposal; so I think of it as recent).

No, there can be more than one answer to the questions. The answer to the last question might be that he has very limited suggestions such that what he now knows is sufficient for the limited suggestions he has in mind (example: better enforce "Don't bite the new guys"). WAS 4.250 (talk) 22:24, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

On April 22, I cited the WMF Mission Statement in a discussion thread at Misplaced Pages Review. Three days later (and unbeknownst to me until just now) Eloquence revised the mission statement to replace the phrase 'knowledge' with 'neutral educational content'. Prior to that edit, the Mission Statement read:

The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop knowledge under a free license, and to disseminate it effectively and globally.

As of the above-cited revision, it now reads:

The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop neutral educational content under a free content license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally.

I understood and accepted without reservation the Mission Statement as it stood when I first looked at it on April 22nd. While I have no problem with substituting 'educational content' for 'knowledge', the modifier 'neutral' which Eloquence inserted is somewhat vague and ill-defined. Or to put it another way, I am unclear on what Wikipedians mean by 'neutral' in policies like WP:NPOV. Modulo that confusion, the rest of the Mission Statement is fine by me either way.

WAS, I just discovered that there are two versions of the WMF Mission Statement. The version on WikiMediaFoundaton.Org omits the word 'neutral' while the version on MetaWikiMedia.Org includes the word 'neutral'. Could you contact Anthere (who is the last editor on both versions) and find out which one is the operative version? I would find it more sensible to omit the word 'neutral' as that seems to be a volatile construct. As the relative strength of the voices of competing POVs wax and wane, the 'neutral' view would require the educational content to wax and wane in synchrony to the public clamor. I frankly don't think that makes very much sense. It would generate a rivalry among competing POVs to gain ground in terms of their prominence in the public clamor. We saw something very much like that, when the Discovery Institute sought to claim that hundreds of prominent scientists and academics endorsed their non-mainstream POV. And even then, the WikiClique on ID amplified their prominence here, by coatracking the ID controversy everywhere they could find a hook. Is that a healthy dynamic?

Moulton (talk) 11:38, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

It is my policy and practice not only to assume good faith, but to extend good faith even when there is substantial evidence that another party is not acting in good faith. I can provide representative examples, if you like.

As a Systems Scientist, I have been struggling for the past ten months to construct a system model of Misplaced Pages's Socio-Political Dynamics, so as to be able to understand how Wikipedians conduct business amongst themselves. In that regard, I have one such model on the table, but I have relatively little feedback on whether it's an accurate or insightful model.

With respect to editing without violating any of the various rules and guidelines that Wikipedians are wont to cite (e.g. WP:BOLD, WP:Consensus, WP:IAR, WP:BLP, WP:NOR, WP:RS, WP:V, WP:AGF), I find that they frequently tend to be mutually inconsistent and mutually contradictory. Last August, I discovered that virtually every edit I deigned to make in a mainspace article, or every edit I merely proposed in an article's talk page was quickly reverted or summarily rejected on account of being in violation of some obscure rule. I concluded that the only edit that one could safely make without being in violation of some rule was the Null Edit.

Misplaced Pages serves many useful and valuable purposes. I routinely rely on it to look up details on items of popular culture. Misplaced Pages is probably the best compendium of popular culture on the Internet.

I have no delusions or fantasies that Misplaced Pages will undertake to revise its policies or practices on account of any analysis, criticism, or suggestions coming from my quarters. At best, I have the audacity to merely hope for some improvements, enroute to best practices.

I understand, through the recent efforts of Doc Glasgow and others, that WP:BLP is a candidate for policy revisions. I understand, through the recent essay from Raymond Arritt, that the problem of expert withdrawal is also a concern that has attracted some attention.

I am also aware, in the wake of recent events related to issues raised in my own case, that the interpretation and application of existing policies is also in flux.

I have seen some references to proposals and commercial enterprises to distribute selected content of Misplaced Pages on DVDs.

I know that at least one bibliographic reference I inserted into the English Misplaced Pages was copied to the Hebrew Misplaced Pages, even as someone deleted it from the English Misplaced Pages. I have not been able to divine the criteria for such editorial decisions.

I know a little about WikiNews, mainly because of some recent unfavorable publicity concerning it.

Do you think you should learn a little more about me (and other academics like me), before deciding how best to govern me? Do you think a more collegial and congenial governance model would be more appropriate, if you wish to attract and retain more scholars from the academic community?

Moulton (talk) 00:04, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

"Neutral" is generally understood here at the English language Misplaced Pages as referring to presenting reliable published mainstream opinion and reliable published expert opinion and alternative points of view identified and discussed in mainstream reliable published sources - each in appropriate contexts (articles) and in fair proportion (due weight).

Before you construct a model, you should gather evidence. Wikiversity has several projects doing that. So far there is a lack of adequate data to formulate or evaluate any detailed scientific model of the Misplaced Pages community.

"I find that they frequently tend to be mutually inconsistent and mutually contradictory." Yes, we know. Especially IAR. And they are constantly changing. Trying to edit or to counter established cabals with literal rules following does not work as you found out. Try editing some obscure articles as an IP and learn from actual experience. Rule following without enough experience to provide common sense does not work. Expecting admins to always follow the rules is like expecting police to never break the law. People will be people, not machines. Act like it.

At WR, you seem to confuse "what are best practices for creating a useful encyclopedia starting with no money but lots of volunteers?" with "what are the best practises for creating the best encyclopedia?" Misplaced Pages is breaking up the creating of a great encyclopedia into two pieces: first create this useful encyclopedia with "anyone can edit"; then take that and have experts check/edit it into a great end product. We have already done this for parts of Misplaced Pages. We will continue to do this and other things to take what "anyone can edit" and create finished vetted products that can not be edited.

"I have not been able to divine the criteria for such editorial decisions." Individual idiosyncratic choices that the individuals believe will make the encyclopedia better. Some add a claim they feel helps. Others delete it thinking that helps. Anyone can add. Anyone can delete. If there is a difference of opinion, ask other people to join the conversation. Fighting about it only gets you banned.

"Do you think you should learn a little more about me (and other academics like me), before deciding how best to govern me?" I have no wish to govern anyone. (I'm not an admin.) "Do you think a more collegial and congenial governance model would be more appropriate, if you wish to attract and retain more scholars from the academic community?" Yes. Absolutely. Lots of people are trying to help wikipedia be more expert friendly, newbie friendly, and less of a "paint ball game". We know this is a problem. Your help in fixing this would be appreciated. But, we can't fix the problem by methods that destroy the very point of the community's existence (qua community) - to create free-of-cost copy-left useful educational resources.

At WR you express confusion over WP:NOR. It is really very simple. We wish to be credible in spite of being an encyclopedia that anyone can edit. The best way we have found to do that is to support claims with references to published reliable sources, so that anyone can verify that claim. It does not mean one should not do research. It only means that all claims actually appearing in the article should in principle be able to be sourced to a reliable published source. They don't have to actually be sourced. If editors look at a claim and think, "I'm sure if I looked I could find a source" then it is ok to stay. Also, research sometimes shows a published claim to be wrong, so you can remove a claim you believe to be false based on private research. But if someone else challenges you, you need to convince them you are right. Part of your confusion is from running into people who will twist any rule to win an argument. WAS 4.250 (talk) 20:19, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

So, if I understand your explanation of neutral as applied, for example, to an article on the origin of life, it might have a section on theories of terrestrial abiogenesis, a section on theories of panspermia, and a section on teleological explanations for the origin of life in the cosmos. The discussion might point out the difficulty of coming up with a good scientific model or explanation for the appearance of DNA-based self-reproducing systems out of nonliving organic structures — a puzzle that is complicated by the astonishing complexity of the DNA-based replication process. Is that about right?

With regard to building a system model of Misplaced Pages's socio-cultural dynamics, I had not intended to undertake anything quite so daunting, except that I was unexpectedly handed an anecdotal experience last August. I wondered if my experience was a one-off fluke — a happenstantial misadventure — or whether anything comparable had happened to others. Now the plural of anecdote is data, so after I wrote up my own memoir, I went looking for others. I first found WordBomb's web site, which led me to Misplaced Pages Review, where I discovered a sizable community of outcasts of varying stripes, together with a fairly efficient information gathering system to build a record of known cases, some more notorious than others. It's not exactly a scientific sample, but when one is doing system modeling, one begins where the data (and the data analysis) can be found. It's too soon to say whether a viable and reliable system model will emerge, but I can at least test to see if Misplaced Pages's dysfunctional regulatory structure correponds to Girard's Model.

I was unaware that Wikiversity was engaged in anything similar. I'll have to take a closer look.

Since I am auto-blocked, I can't edit without logging in, as the system has captured my Verizon DSL IP. Doubleplus, there are those who would seize on that to cause me grief. However, I had made a few minor edits in the years prior to my big kerfuffle last August. The amusing thing is that afterwards, someone seems to have gone back and expunged a fair number of those previously obscure edits (at least in the English Misplaced Pages).

It seems to me that a project with lots of young volunteers is well-suited to create a compendium of popular culture, and articles of that nature are generally quite comprehensive. Articles on scholarly subjects appear to be a bit more problematic. It occurred to me that it would make sense to separate these two classes of articles. And as for BLPs, I think that one needs to be taken entirely out the hands of anonymous/pseudonymous volunteers and amateurs.

With respect to those minor improvements, like adding a useful bibliographic reference or a see also link, it seems rather pointless to try to spend too much time doing that, as there is no stability over time for such edits.

Figuring out how to help Misplaced Pages fix its animosity and antipathy toward newbies and academics has frankly taxed my creative problem-solving skills to their limit. I've watched any number of alienated editors become angry, frustrated, disgusted, cynical, and even bitter. What's worse, that progression appears to be all but irreversible for most of the disaffected editors who became alienated from the community they sought to serve in good faith.

With respect to your final paragraph, I've had to wrestle with allegations of WP:COI in those subject matter areas where I am most competent because they are the areas where I have the most depth and familiarity. I have also run into a meatgrinder trying to remove blatantly false information that can trivially be shown to be unsourced if one bothers to actually examine the cited source upon which the article relies.

Moulton (talk) 23:32, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages articles are written by their editors and contain what their consensus is concerning content. If there was a consensus among the editors of an article to have that article contain broad philosophical discussions of an issue then that is what it should contain. If there is a consensus to restrict the article to specific science based claims, then that is what the article should contain. There is certainly room at wikipedia for claims about "teleological explanations for the origin of life in the cosmos" but I would not mix such evidence-less speculations with science based evidence describing what science has and has not uncovered about the origins of life on Earth. If is the sheerest nonsense to argue that a lack of evidence is evidence for the supernatural. If I don't know what you ate for breakfast, that is no reason for me to assert that is evidence you ate eggs much less to assert that since I don't know it increases the chance that Zeus fed you.

About "the astonishing complexity of the DNA-based replication process". The complexity is partly due to a lack of design. The DNA/RNA code is the most spaghetti-code like software code I have ever seen. It is exactly what you would expect from an evolution driven system. I think you greatly under-estimate the power of emergence and the ability of poorly replicating objects to multiply and evolve when there is a lack of superior lifeforms competing with them. Circumstantial evidence is very strong for early non-species (did not breed true) RNA self-catalytic molecules.

About "Misplaced Pages's dysfunctional regulatory structure" - when you have a talking dog, you miss the point when you argue over its use of the word "ain't".

"Since I am auto-blocked, I can't edit without logging in, as the system has captured my Verizon DSL IP." Nonsense. Your local libraies have internet connections. You are smart enough to be able to edit articles not known to be associated with you in ways that do not promote POVs associated with you. You can edit, if you choose. Just not in a way that is obviously you. Lots of banned/blockd people figure that if they can't POV push, then why bother editing at all. Surely you don't feel that way.

there is no stability over time for such edits I disagree.

See Integrated Multi-Trophic Aquaculture for what was, can be, and should be done by experts. This article was a collaborative venture by several IMTA researchers around the world. Contributors included: Reid GK, Chopin T, Robinson S, Neori A, Buschmann AH, Shpigel M, Rodger A, and Bolton J. These experts also wrote some of the sources referenced in the article. I wikified it for them.

Would you like to edit Objections to evolution? You can be unblocked and/or given permission to sockpuppet if you wish to constructively contribute to that article. Or pick another article that you haven't been in a fight over. WAS 4.250 (talk) 12:10, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence yet for panspermia, and (as far as I know) there aren't any satisfactory theories yet for terrestrial abiogenesis, either. So if I am reading you accurately, an article on the origin of life would say that while there is research underway, and perhaps some speculative theories being bandied about, science does not yet have a settled theory for the origin of life in the cosmos. End of article.

Then again, I might talk about the NASA missions (including the upcoming Mission to Mars) which will look for evidence of panspermia. And I might like to see someone familiar with work on terrestrial abiogenesis review the state of that research.

If there is a good theory for how nucleic acid structures got their start, it has not yet come to my attention (not that I've been keeping up with the literature).

I ain't got no talking dog. All I got is this ferchachta experience of the last ten months to come to grips with.

I am not about to go schlepping down to the library to evade the friggin' autoblock. And I have found that others can invariably recognize me after about 3 sentences, no matter what the subject matter is. I never did figure out what is so idiosyncratic about my writing style that gives it away so easily.

It's too bad the articles about Rosalind Picard and Affective Computing couldn't have been written by editors familiar with the subject. That would have been refreshing.

Objections to evolution? I am not familiar with any. Are there really people left on the planet who object to evolution? When I worked at Bell Labs in the Network Planning Division, and I had a chance to come up with a new name for our group, I selected the name Network Evolution Planning. That was my concept of intelligent system design, a quarter century ago. And I'd like to see some accelerated evolution in this project, too. The regulatory process I encountered here reminds me of the regime of King John, before the Magna Carta.

Moulton (talk) 04:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

If I may, I'd like to say a quick word about the offer for Moulton to edit Objections to evolution. If he does return and edits that article, I would advise him to tread very lightly because that page is often visited by people who do not wish to make contributions and would rather argue and use it as a forum. I would suggest a less contentious topic for him to edit; something along the computer science lines. If he wants to avoid stirring up the pot and get back into the community's good graces, editing that particular article would not be a wise choice. Baegisthesock (talk) 14:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The Similarities and Differences Between Filll and Moulton

Over at the WP:AN that Dihydrogen Monoxide started a few days ago, Filll has published a comprehensive analysis in which he compares his history and adaptation to the Misplaced Pages culture to my history and maladaptive reaction to the Misplaced Pages culture.

Filll's analysis and synthesis of a theory of mind is remarkable.

My problem with Filll's analysis and his theory of mind is that it's not even wrong.

But I wonder if someone would be kind enough explain to me "the principles that Misplaced Pages operates under" and reveal to me how those "principles" (assuming I can ever apprehend them) make the treatment I was afforded by Filll and his colleagues both expected and inevitable.

Finally, since I believe in complementary relationships, permit me to present my reciprocal views regarding Filll...

Moulton's understanding of Filll

Although I have engaged with Filll many times over the past ten months, I confess that I have not yet succeeded in constructing an adequate understanding or appreciation of his mindset or character. I don't understand what he dreads or how he feels about various and sundry issues that recur in his life and his work. I know next to nothing about his personal backstory, including his educational background and experience. I am uninformed about his core beliefs, and baffled by his normative practices. I doubt I could accurately articulate his heartfelt desires or his avowed intentions.

And I am unable to make sense of his observable actions or the ensuing Shreklisch drama that has unfolded between us.

I regret to say, I simply don't understand Filll. I don't understand where he is coming from; I don't understand how he forms his beliefs; nor do I understand why he behaves the way he does.

In terms of my concept of best practices, the best character model I can honestly and ethically put forward at this time regarding my antagonist in this unusual relationship is the Null Model.

And that's the Yin and Yang of our complementary relationship, thus far.

Moulton (talk) 00:49, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Another fascinating example turns up as the AN conversation burbles along. Whereas Filll presciently invokes the Rashomon effect, I take it to the next level and employ it in a parody.

Moulton (talk) 06:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Amazing that it seems many of the posters on that forum find problems with your behavior. Strange. I thought it was just the "ID clique" picking on you. Baegis (talk) 06:40, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Moulton asks "But I wonder if someone would be kind enough explain to me "the principles that Misplaced Pages operates under" and reveal to me how those "principles" (assuming I can ever apprehend them) make the treatment I was afforded by Filll and his colleagues both expected and inevitable." Moulton, you are dealing with human beings, who are going to act like human beings - some honest and giving, others less so. We even have a few bullies. I once played poker for no money with a few drinking buddies and accused a friend much larger than myself of cheating, not once but three times. What do you imagine was the "expected and inevitable" result? He threw a punch. I deserved it. What else should I expect from such behavior at a drunken card game? Well, Misplaced Pages has a ton of vandals and POV pushers and our defense is unpaid volunteers who make mistakes, who POV push themselves at times, who get feed up and overreact some times. It is part of the process. If you will not or can not work in such an environment, then Misplaced Pages is not for you.WAS 4.250 (talk) 19:31, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

WAS, I am all in favor of giving people generous slack in a spirit collegiality and congeniality. But that door swings both ways, does it not? I had been editing in earnest on Misplaced Pages for barely a week, on a mere handful of BLPs and related articles that many observers now frankly concede were in atrocious condition, when Filll and his cronies in the WikiProject on Intelligent Design unceremoniously hauled me into a bewildering and Kafkaesque procedural nightmare, presumably in accordance with a sober application of those vaunted "principles" that he sanctimoniously refers to. —Moulton (talk) 19:53, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

"presumably in accordance with a sober application of those vaunted "principles" that he sanctimoniously refers to." Oh, please. How many times do you have to be told that you ran into bullies that did not follow the rules; but instead gamed them to win an argument? The sad thing is I'm not even sure how many of that group even know they are twisting the rules. We are all delusional in our own way, as I'm sure you know. So why do we put up with them? Most of what they do benefits Misplaced Pages by keeping popular misconceptions out of science articles. And who is gonna fight off the very persistent and nasty POV pushers for no money other than people that enjoy pushing others around? You don't hire peace-niks as snipers. Catch-22 from the unexpected unplanned success at letting anyone edit. WAS 4.250 (talk) 20:37, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

That's quite helpful, WAS, and I appreciate your candor. With respect to the more difficult problem of presenting science in a way that honors both the educational outreach mission of Misplaced Pages and the rigors of science itself, I am more than willing to offer my experience as a science educator, with twenty years experience with the Boston Museum of Science. I believe it is possible not only to present science in a readable manner to children and adults, but also to adhere to the principles of the scientific method whilst crafting articles on subjects of scientific interest. The late Carl Sagan did not shy away from answering pseudo-science with authentic science. And while I am hardly in his league as a popularizer of science, I do appreciate his inspiring example. —Moulton (talk) 21:26, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Did you see my edit in the above section "Fact finding mission" ? WAS 4.250 (talk) 21:36, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh! Sorry. I missed that. I'll go back and read it and respond. —Moulton (talk) 21:56, 18 May 2008 (UTC)