Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 20:59, 21 August 2005

Katharine Hepburn received a peer review by Misplaced Pages editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

I've added some of the stage work that had been ommitted and eliminated the really offensive and undoubtedly untrue statement by Anne Edwards.

Donna

I notice that there are two entries, one under "Katherine" and one under "Katharine". Would someone who is a fan of Ms Hepburn like to sort out the muddle? user:Deb

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Hepburn,+Katharine clears it up. Koyaanis Qatsi

Katherine Hepburn was born on May 12, 1907. Nonetheless, one finds frequent references to her celebrating her birthday in November. This was in fact the birthdate of her beloved younger brother, Thomas, who hanged himself at age 15. Following his death, Katherine often substituted his birthdate for hers. -- Someone else 08:19, 12 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Hepburn was actually born on May 12, 1907. To those who say her birthday was in November, see . Here is the relevant paragraph from the LA Times article:

Several records, including the Film Encyclopedia, cite her birthday as Nov 9, 1907, and place of birth as Hartford, Conn. In fact, she was born on May 12 that year. The confusion was created by Hepburn herself, who for many years claimed the birthday of her brother, Tom, whom she had found hanging from the rafters in a house they were visiting. She was 14 and he was 16, and it was "Kath" who cut him down. The family could not accept that he might have committed suicide and never mentioned Tom after the day of his funeral. But in her 1991 memoir, "Me: Stories of My Life," Hepburn revealed that his death had always mystified her.

-- Minesweeper 08:08, Oct 12, 2003 (UTC)

She's listed on the page for November 8. Should I leave it, take it off, or explain it there? (Sorry, I'm new-- and is it November 8 or 9? IMDB says 8.) --Galaxiaad 19:04, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Unwarranted deletion of material

I've been steadily expanding the KH article, and some anon user keeps basically deleting huge swaths of the information. Anyone can guess from my username that I'm a huge fan of hers, so I readily admit that I am not the most unbiased person on the planet, but I think the information I've included is all fair and perfectly acceptable for an encyclopedic article, considering her enduring fame. I really wish whoever this anon user is would stand up for his or her continuing disruptions. Katefan0 17:12, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)

If you such a Hepburn fan, than you should realize that there are many errors in your biographical materials on her.

They are not only mine; an article is a conglomeration of efforts. If you see an error, fix it by all means -- but also source it. Deletions or changes by an anonymous user with no source materials supporting those changes will pretty much always be reverted. I'm glad you came to talk, that's the first start down the road toward us both being happy with the article. · Katefan0 06:22, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Her husband got a U.S. divorce in 1942 because he didn't think the Mexican divorce was valid. He then remarried a few weeks later.

Do you have a source for this? · Katefan0 06:22, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

There's absolutely no evidence that she and Luddy separated after three weeks or that their marriage was platonic. That's rubbish.

I have several sources that say just that. Do you have a source that says something different? Also, please avoid phrases like "that's rubbish" -- we're all here for the same reason, to build a good encyclopedia, and Misplaced Pages:Civility demands that we treat each other with basic respect. · Katefan0 06:22, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Leland Hayward was Hepburn's agent. He was never a film director.

I don't know that the article says he was. In fact I think it says he was her agent. I'll look again though. · Katefan0 06:22, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

I caught the ambiguous bit. Fixed! · Katefan0 06:55, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Spencer Tracy and his wife were married in 1923.

Do you have a source for this? · Katefan0 06:22, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Kate still holds the record for most nominations for the best actress Oscar because Meryl Streep has three best supporting actress nominations and only ten best actress nominations.

Do you have a source for this? · Katefan0 06:22, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

The only person who ever said that Scott Berg's book was authorized is Scott Berg. Family and friends of Hepburn all objected to the book. His book is, in fact, badly written and full of errors.

I hadn't heard that, but it doesn't mean it's not true of course. If you have a source you can summarize talking about the book being disputed, by all means let's see it. · Katefan0 06:22, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

As for Hepburn being listed as a gay icon, she quite is. Try Googling "Katharine Hepburn" and "gay icon" and see what you come up with. My own sexuality is irrelevant, particularly since it wasn't my addition. · Katefan0 06:25, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Corse

I've been trying to fix your entry but you keep deleting my fixes. Who voted you the keeper of the Kate Hepburn site on Misplaced Pages? It should be maintained by someone who actually knows a lot about Katharine Hepburn. And by the way, while you're asking for my sources, where are your sources?

First, nobody "owns" an article on Misplaced Pages; I just happen to be interested in the article so I have it on my watchlist. I'm not its keeper any more than, say, you are; everybody on Misplaced Pages watches certain articles they're interested in, and everybody is free to edit here. That I seem to be the only one interested in Hepburn enough to watch the page is a function of circumstance. If you have difficulty having your information or additions challenged, this may not be the place for you (if you'll notice, at the bottom of every page there is a warning that says If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, do not submit it. But I hope that's not the case, as the ultimate goal here is making a good encyclopedia, and as such a plethora of editors almost always end up together making a better article in the end.) Also, once again, please avoid uncivil remarks -- it's prohibited here at Misplaced Pages (see Misplaced Pages:Civility and Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks. To suggest that I don't "know a lot" about Katharine Hepburn is a little insulting, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt; Misplaced Pages also demands that we Misplaced Pages:Assume good faith. I hope you'll extend me the same courtesy from here on out.

I reverted your "fixes" because you hadn't/haven't backed them up with sourcing (well, some of them at present writing). As I explained before, sometimes anon changes get extra scrutiny, for good or ill. Anyway, we're talking now, so what's the use of butting heads and being insulting about nothing? Let's work together to make the article better. As for my sources, many of them are listed in the "references" section. I'd be glad to provide you specifics for any information you are curious about! One of the things on my WP "to do" list is to add inline references where proper, since I'd like to see it eventually made into a featured article off the main page. Unfortunately I'm away from many of my materials until Monday, so some of it may have to wait. · Katefan0 14:59, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

(1) The Kate/Luddy divorce: New York Times September 18, 1942. Luddy got a divorce in Connecticut and Kate's father appeared in court on her behalf. New York Times: September 28, 1942: Luddy married Elizabeth Albers.

This doesn't necessarily contradict that KH went to Mexico, though. I have a couple of printed sources that say just this. I'm sure there's some way we can work together on a paragraph that incorporates all the salient points, in the spirit of wikipeace and WP:Wikilove. · Katefan0 14:59, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

(2) Kate/Luddy marriage: There is absolutely no evidence that they separated after three weeks. She certainly never said that they did. They appear in the 1930 federal census living together in Manhatten. There is no reason whatsoever to think that their marriage was platonic. KH said he was the first man she had sex with. Why would anyone think they didn't continue to have sex. It's absurd. Do you think Anne Edwards was privy to their sex life?

Again, try to avoid comments like "it's absurd." Also, your personal opinions about whether they had sex or not and whether this proves anything about their marriage are irrelevant. I have several sources saying that their marriage, after a short time, was platonic. I'd be glad to dig them up for you, but don't have them at my fingertips currently. Until we can resolve this, I'd ask you to stop inserting what appears to be your personal opinion. If you can find a source that says their marriage was not platonic, in contradiction to mine, then we can list it as a disputed item within the article. There's room for all views, if they are relevant and sourced properly. · Katefan0 14:59, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

(3) Spencer Tracy and Louise Treadwell were married September 12, 1923, Cincinnati, OH. One source among many is Spencer Tracy by Larry Swindell.

Let me see if I have a conflicting source or not, this one I'm just not sure about. I think the marriage year was already in the article when I became involved. · Katefan0 14:59, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

(4) Meryl Streep's Oscar nominations:

From the AMPAS site:

1978 (51st) ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE -- The Deer Hunter {"Linda"} 1979 (52nd) * ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE -- Kramer vs. Kramer {"Joanna Kramer"} 1981 (54th) ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE -- The French Lieutenant's Woman {"Sara Woodruff/Anna"} 1982 (55th) * ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE -- Sophie's Choice {"Sophie"} 1983 (56th) ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE -- Silkwood {"Karen Silkwood"} 1985 (58th) ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE -- Out of Africa {"Karen"} 1987 (60th) ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE -- Ironweed {"Helen"} 1988 (61st) ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE -- A Cry in the Dark {"Lindy"} 1990 (63rd) ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE -- Postcards from the Edge {"Suzanne Vale"} 1995 (68th) ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE -- The Bridges of Madison County {"Francesca Johnson"} 1998 (71st) ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE -- One True Thing {"Kate Gulden"} 1999 (72nd) ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE -- Music of the Heart {"Roberta Guaspari"} 2002 (75th) ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE -- Adaptation {"Susan Orlean"}

Hmmm. Well, that's good enough for me. I think that this perhaps was an error spread by some of her obits; I believe that's where I originally pulled that information from. 14:59, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

(5) Objections to the Berg book: A good source is Liz Smith who beside being a columnist is very good friends with Cynthia McFadden, friend of KH and executor of her estate. Liz Smith wrote about Berg's book:

August 3, 2003

"WANT TO READ one of the funniest things ever? Go online to The Hartford Courant for July 27, the column of Colin McEnroe, titled "Me, Kate and Me" - a satirical takeoff on the Scott Berg "memoir" about Katharine Hepburn.

McEnroe's satirical irony rises to James Thurber and S.J. Perelman heights. We can't do it justice in our small space. But, here is McEnroe, mocking the way Berg writes about his so-called relationship with the actress: "That's the way she was. Utterly insistent on her own rules. I'm a bit that way myself, which is why Kate Hepburn came to worship and depend on me."

Along with the trenchant critical review by Michiko Kakutani in The New York Times, McEnroe nails Berg for the presumptuous presentation of himself as Hepburn's only confidant. He dispatches the turgid, boring book that came out as a result. In my own humble opinion, Berg's work is self-promoting fakery, and Hepburn would have despised it and his betrayal of her friendship."

Interesting! I don't often read Liz Smith. Anyway, but I don't see her here saying that the family disliked the book; she's saying she (and a NYT reviewer) disliked the book, and speculating that in her opinion Hepburn would have as well. We can say something in the article if you like about how reviewers (including Smith) disliked it, but that's quite different from saying someone from the family said it was false or that they disliked it. And perhaps they did, I don't know -- but we need a better source than that if we're going to assert such a thing definitively. Maybe we can work together to find some. · Katefan0 14:59, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Now we're getting somewhere. If you could, please begin signing your comments with four tildes ~~~~. It makes communication a lot easier because it can be difficult to sort out who said what without it. Another formatting point, please don't use hyphens to make lines; it somehow makes WP's processers work harder, so WP policies generally prefers the use of section headers (which look like this: == Section header == or, for a bolded phrase without the line break, === Segment header ===. One final thing -- on talk pages, new comments are generally added at the bottom, not the top. I'm going to move this down to the bottom of our section head, so it doesn't get confusing for anybody else following this page. Cheers! · Katefan0 14:59, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Why are you removing information on The Aviator? It's relevant to the article. Also, why completely remove information about Berg's book? It's also relevant, whether you agree with it or not. If you can find critical information that is sourced and relevant, feel free to cite it, but don't scrub Berg from the article because you dislike it. · Katefan0 15:10, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Well, I see you've once again deleted factual and relevant material and inserted unsourced material despite my requests here on the talk page. You've now reverted material four times today -- you can be blocked for such an offense, please read Misplaced Pages's policies at Misplaced Pages:3RR. I'll be reverting your changes once again. We can go around like this if you like, but it's really better if we can talk out some sort of amicable compromise. · Katefan0 00:27, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:49, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Bryn Mawr

She was educated at Bryn Mawr College, receiving a degree in history and philosophy in 1928 < !-- check... Katharine Hepburn's mother got a degree from BM in history and philosophy; can this be a mistake? other sources say her degree was in drama-- >,

For what it's worth, the Bryn Mawr page doesn't list Drama as an offered major. —wwoods 02:15, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

• Appreciate you trying to help! but 1928 was a long time ago, and offered degree programs change more often than you'd think... it might actually take a call to BM to figure this one out. · Katefan0 02:49, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Recent change

Hey LeoDV, I appreciate what you were getting at, but the article isn't about their romance, it's about Hepburn herself, so I think her achievements are just as important as her romance with Spencer Tracy, maybe more so. I put the information about her awards back up in the lead paragraph, but also added in something approaching what you wrote. Thanks · Katefan0 17:04, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

• Old requests for peer review