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wikipedia essay contest

Time Times (2008-03)

	Time Times
Issue One • March 2008 • About the Newsletter Written by FrankP and Template Designed by Diligent Terrier
News Recent Project News Time Times I, Zginder, have started this the official newsletter of the project. This newsletter is part of the Time Times, which has been created to update our members on the latest news at the project and on time. This first posting is late because I did not even come up with the idea until 2008-03-08. In the future I plan to have it ready to publish before the month begins. (If anyone should do things on time on Misplaced Pages it should be us, no?) Article count over 800! By my count we now have 873 articles but, will have many more soon. Less than 200 are assessed though, plenty of work for us to do. Portal:Time now working thanks to Yamara. Project member count reaches 11 members! Keep inviting all your WikiFriends. Remember: The project is now accessible from new shortcuts, WP:TIME and WP:TIMEPRO. Project gets a new look thanks to Yamara, if you have not seen it yet stop on by. Recent Time News The last day of February was leap day. Lets make this article featured before the next one comes around on 2012-02-29. Daylight saving time is in effect in the United States and a few other counties as of 2008-03-09. This article is our only featured article.
Archives • Newsroom
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Happy First Day of Spring!

Just wishing you a wonderful First Day of Spring {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}! ~~~~

Have you taken a look at Portal:Scientology/Wikimedia?

The logo's for each image are extremely expanded. I saw that you were the first one to edit it; but it's been messed up since that time. I think you should take a look at it. Lighthead 0:21, March 25 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm not even part of that project but I was just browsing... Lighthead 0:32, March 25 2008 (UTC)

Time Times (2008-04)

	Time Times
Issue Two • April 2008 • About the Newsletter Written by FrankP and Template Designed by Diligent Terrier
News Recent Project News Article count on at 961! We now have 961 articles but, will have many more soon as only a few are marked as in our project. At least 803 are unassessed though, plenty of work for us to do. Project member count reaches 12 members! Keep inviting all your WikiFriends. Award offered—Since 2008-01-05, Sharkface217 has offered a Barnstar to the editor who can expand the article Timeline. It certainly needs it, now that it has been disambiguated from Chronology: Go to the Timeline listing on the Awards page to find out Sharkface's minimum requirements! From the Time Portal An IP added this funny comment to Portal talk:Time "I never though I would see the day mankind succeeds in creating a time portal." Recent Time News From the leap second article: in April 2008: ITU Working Party 7A will submit to ITU Study Group 7 project recommendation on stopping leap second. Calendars met on March 21. It was Good Friday (Western Christianity, 2008); Purim ends at sundown (Judaism, 2008); Naw-Rúz in the Bahá'í calendar, Benito Juárez Day in Mexico, World Poetry Day.
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thank spam

Thank you for voting in my RfA, which passed with 194 supporting, 9 opposing, and 4 neutral. Your kindness and constructive criticism is very much appreciated. I look forward to using the tools you have granted me to aid the project. I would like to give special thanks to Tim Vickers, Anthony and Acalamari for their nominations. Thank you again, VanTucky

Time Times (2008-05)

	Time Times
Issue Three • May 2008 • About the Newsletter Written by FrankP and Template Designed by Diligent Terrier
News Recent Project News Article count at 1074! At least 911 are unassessed though, plenty of work for us to do. Award offered—Since 2008-01-05, Sharkface217 has offered a Barnstar to the editor who can expand the article Timeline. It certainly needs it, now that it has been disambiguated from Chronology: Go to the Timeline listing on the Awards page to find out Sharkface's minimum requirements! From the Time Portal History of timekeeping devices reaches Good Article Status —On April 7 the history of time keeping article became a GA. This is our only top importance article to reach this prestigious status. This was only possible with the dedication of the Tzatziki Squad. They are continuing to work on the article to reach Feature Article status. History of timekeeping devices in Egypt was a DYK —The article appeared on the Main Page on April 8. With this text: "...that despite Herodotus's claim that the sundial was invented in Babylon, the oldest known example is from Egypt?" This also was only possible thanks to the Tzatziki Squad. Recent Time News None that I know of.
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WP:X Elections

RS for Religious sources

On this talk page we are discussing the following comment:

These primary sources are interpreted by the author, the interpretations can be regarded as WP:OR. A citecheck for these refs is needed. --Redtigerxyz (talk) 05:34, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

This falls under discussion on RS for religion related articles and the question is an open one, I would appreciate comments by others:

Secondary sources by religious teachers

Most of sources above fall under this category and deal with the traditional views of the sect - they were discussed and they fall under the kind called "Writings by sectarian leaders/teachers." (as in the discussion referred in the links above). As per consensus of the board: "These sources can be useful to express the sect's own views of itself and the world. However great care should be taken that these opinions are carefully attributed." There are a number of conditions under which they are to be used as per above * quoted discussionon the board - it appeared to have received a WP:consensus.

However it would be important to have a second opinion on use of the sectarian sources to support views of a particular sect, be it Christian, Muslim or Vaishnava. Especially if the article is about (as for example this one) a concept that is formulated by a sect. It would be useful to conclude on it as to avoid unnecessary tagging.

In essence they merely illustrate the particular view help within particular religious interpretation as a POV in WP:YESPOV. I do not think you can just dismiss all the writings as they are all WP:V. Let me know what other editors think and if this WP:V material should be removed.

Obvious if it is not WP:V material it should be removed. If the sects opinion is taken out of context its should be noted and removed again.

Primary Sanskrit sources as translated by religious/sectarian teachers.

There is a number of such quotes above and they are typical on all Hinduism related works, mainly because of the different media.

If reference is to a Sanskrit slokas which is necessary if you talk about a Sanskrit term, as is the case in this article on Svayam bhagavan do we need to show a context of the sectarian text as per above where they were taken from? Again opinion is sought on inclusion of this type to achieve the consensus. I understand that this is English encyclopedia and a care should be taken to avoid use of Sanskrit in the main text, but I can not see any harm in retaining actual Sanskrit in the footnotes, let me know what you think.

We all know that secondary sources are better, but its not an absolute necessity for all the material, as far as I understand.

Wikidās ॐ 15:54, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

You have suggested:

I might suggest changing it to something like (this is not a finalized proposal) "Svayam bhagavan is a Sanskrit theological term. It has been translated in various ways into English. ..." It would be useful to note which traditions use the phrase most frequently, to help ensure that the existing lead content emphasizing Krishna is reflective of due weight. If it isn't, then the references in the lead to Krishna could be moved in a separate section on Krishna as svayam bhagavan, and include other sections on other avatars as svayam bhagavan; such sections do not yet seem to exist, but might be the most reasonable way of organizing the article. The last sentence/paragraph of the lead is almost certainly removable, as I believe that material is already included elsewhere. I also question, although I can't be sure, inclusion of sections of Sanskrit text in the English language wikipedia, as very few people reading this article will actually know a single word in those sections, including me. For all I know, there might be in it a very rude statement about the mother of the person reading the article; it doesn't really enhance the understanding of the subject at all. I could be wrong, of course. John Carter (talk) 14:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

John, I would appreciate if you can comment on 1) Secondary sources in the religious denomination context. 2) Primary sources referring to foreign language footnotes. 3) Use of the translation of the no.2 as they are published by the religious teachers. Thank you. Wikidās ॐ16:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

May I intrude here & suggest it's important to be very careful about the concept of "sect"? Most major religious groups are nothing like as monolithic as the Roman Catholic Church. For such groups, a source belonging to the group is not in general a reliable source of information for the beliefs of the group as a whole. On the other hand, if a group can be correctly described as a sect, that probably doesn't apply. Peter jackson (talk) 15:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Your reply isn't to the main point I was making here, tho' of course it's valid & important enough in its own context. The main point I was making was that, generally speaking, religious sources are not reliable sources for the beliefs of anyone other than their actual authors, unless those authors can be clearly established to be official spokespersons. Peter jackson (talk) 15:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

This is something I come across all the time in Buddhism. Lots of people think all they have to do is cite a Buddhist writer as the source for WP statements about Buddhist teachings. (Sometimes they even do it for historical statements.) They often don't even realize there are disagreements between different schools of Buddhism, let alone within them. When I try to explain this & that we should cite scholars they say scholars are outsiders who don't understand Buddhism properly. That may be true, tho' in fact about 1/4 of the scholars are openly Buddhist & it's estimated a similar number keep quiet about it for fear their neutrality might be impugned. Anyway, I then have to explain again. It all gets rather tiresome. It might be nice if this were explained more clearly in the guidelines. Perhaps I should raise it there, tho' one might have thought someone else would have done so already. Peter jackson (talk) 16:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey John

Hey John, as you know, Tony has withdrawn his oppose so I believe we can reach the so awaited FA with some work. My question is:

The following sentence seems to be too praising:

After the release of this film, Zinta was recognised for her versatility as an actress; commended for work portraying a wide range of characters in Kya Kehna, Sangharsh and Chori Chori Chupke Chupke, and credited with establishing a new image for leading actresses in Bollywood.

What do you think about changing it to:

"After the release of this film, Zinta was often recognised for her versatility as an actress. Critics attributed her characters in Kya Kehna, Sangharsh and Chori Chori Chupke Chupke, as to establishing a new image for leading actresses in Bollywood."

What do you think John? Shahid • 09:33, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

The original is a problematic sentence. Not only are you using the same reference in just a few words but you are basically saying the same thing twice and the tone is far too gushing at the same time with all those claims in one sentence. Recognizing her versatility as an actress is exactly the same thing as critics attributing her portrayal of a wide range of characters. It just isn't right. There should be two claims -that critics recognized her versatility in playing a wide range of characters and that her roles were quite symbolic in that they contributed to a new perception of a Hindi film heroine.

Shahid's newest example seems fine but

This sentence seems right to me:

"After the release of this film, critics recognized her versatility as an actress and attributed her roles in Kya Kehna, Sangharsh and Chori Chori Chupke Chupke as contributing to new perception of a Hindi film heroine".

PLease read the comments I've made on Shahid's talk page and join in the discussion as to how to try to improve it ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 09:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

You have an email. I'm curious ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 15:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

There we go. Check the main page Liberian National Museum. Perhaps you would like a reading break? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 17:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Christianity Project Elections

Can we close the elections now ? Please accept the post of Lead co-ordinator . You are more deserved and eligible for the role. -- ₮inucherian - 05:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you mind being the Lead co-ordinator of the prjt ? If so, I shall close the elections -- TinuCherian - 13:20, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Question

Sandy, is it OK to leave a message on one editor's talk page and indirectly ask him to oppose the nomination at a certain FAC? That's what the only editor who opposed at the Zinta FAC did now twice. Shahid • 21:38, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I've sent the comment to both Sandy and you because I wanted both of you to know about this. Shahid • 21:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes John, and I'm referring to this also. He says, "Would you also be able to weigh in on this FAC? imho, it is bad enough not to be FA."

After editors like Tony and Laser withdrawing their opposes and one of them even changing to "support" - we get to that. Shahid • 21:56, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXIV - May 2008

The May 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. SteveCrossinBot (talk) 08:03, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Togo

I've created a template monster at Template:Bassar Prefecture. When I've comepleted it there will be severa; hundred articles to tag for togo. Have you organized a bot yet such as JohnBot which could be used to pound on those talk pages?? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 14:36, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I would strongly suggest you try to create your own personal one. It would save you so many hours of tagging. I'm certain a bot could be created to get these Africa setltements up and running also but so far nothing ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 14:52, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I've never been one of the computer science nerds either. Thats isn't my thing either. But in this day and age you shouldn't have to do that huge amount manually for tagging I don't think espically if there are a batch of articles which have the same level of importance or class. Could you try addressing it to User talk:MBisanz and say we want things done 10 times faster! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 14:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

That sounds promising. I'm just having some computer trouble every page is taking like 2 minutes to load. I just cleared the browsing history which was enormous but its still playing up. I'll do a reboot now see if it goes back to normal. Regards ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 15:26, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

problem editors

hell john, im having a little bit of a dispute with two editors on the grunge music article with this user and this useri made a small change to the decline section to mesh better and be more accurate with the statements made with in the section but some how these users keep reverting and are unwilling to compromise i have not made a disscusion on the article page but i have been trying to come to a compromise on one of the problem editors user page but they just keep reverting the edit and i gave a 3 revert rule warning to one if you could look into this thank you i dont know what elese to do --Wikiscribe (talk) 22:14, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Play party (BDSM) (2nd nomination)

Since you are part of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality, i would appreciate it if you could voice your opinion on the article Play party (BDSM), which is currently up for deletion. --Simon Speed (talk) 22:50, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

ISSO (Swaminarayan)

I wanted to move the above but to its full name, International Swaminarayan Satsang Organisation, which redirects to the above. However, the redirect there prevents me from doing so. I understand that ur an admin, an u pl. do this? Thanks, Wheredevelsdare (talk) 23:24, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup listings

Hello,

recently you requested cleanup listings for Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Christianity, Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Saints, Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Religion, and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Cryptozoology. I'm not sure whether you already announced these listings to the other project members (I found nothing to that end on the project talk pages). My goal with this "test phase" of the cleanup listings is to gather feedback whether these kind of list are useful, and how they could be improved. So I'm interested that the project members actually take notice. I can of course post on those talk pages myself; I just wanted to find out whether you already left them a note somewhere or not. --B. Wolterding (talk) 15:11, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Rfb participation thanks

Hello, John.

I wanted to personally thank you for taking part in the project-wide discussions regarding my candidacy for bureaucratship. After bureaucratic discussion, the bureaucrats decided that there was sufficient significant and varied opposition to my candidacy, and thus no consensus to promote. Although personally disappointed, I both understand and respect their decision, especially in light of historical conservatism the project has had when selecting its bureaucrats. If you have any further suggestions or comments as to how you think I could help the project, please let me know. As you felt the need to remain neutral, I would appreciate any particular thoughts or advice you may have as to what flaws in my candidacy you perceived and how you feel they may be addressed. Once again, thank you for your participation. -- Avi (talk) 19:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Graceful loss vs havoc

Hi John. Since you know the Misplaced Pages policies better, please tell me what happens when:

• Some user proposes a rename/merge and a vote is taken.

• the proposing user threatens havoc thereafter if he loses.

• The user proposing this loses the vote and continues to butcher the page, cause havoc and starts a process of slow merge and slow rename in a gradual manner to achieve the same affect as the vote that he lost.

• Several other users are unhappy about this and hav eexpressed frustration on other pages as well. What can they do?

This is happening on the Blessed Virgin Mary page and is slow vandalism in my view. What are the Wikepedia remedies here?

Thanks History2007 (talk) 20:23, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I will follow your advice. History2007 (talk) 20:35, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Your comment at Blessed Virgin Mary(John_Carter) makes a bit more sense (in context) now that I see what History2007 told you here.

I, "the user"

• proposes a rename to Blessed Virgin Mary since I was it as a violation of WP policy
• never threasted havoc
• did, among many other things said, point out that I would edit the page-content fit the page-name if the page-name stayed the same.
• have done this since the change (to meet WP policy) fell undone -- but have mostly added material.
• did, get multiable reverts and accusations of "butcher the page"
• did and do make continued efforts discuss content issues with History2007, but without much feedback from him as to what is ment by his accusations --Carlaude (talk) 21:35, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Response

I don't know what his main conclusion is. Is this site reliable according to him? Shahid • 21:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I must say I trust this site very much, especially considering the fact that many other reliable sources do. It will be very difficult to find such accurate information as that on the net. This site is the best. I cannot get how newspapers can use it and Misplaced Pages cannot. It's an evidence isn't it? New sources will turn the page upside down. Shahid • 22:11, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll have to fight for this source, because I don't think only about Zinta. 300 additional Bollywood-related articles on Misplaced Pages are involved. Our entire project will be destroyed. See Gguy's comment on the FAC, I think it's very relevant. Shahid • 22:25, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I frankly prefer to lose an FA, rather than see 300 Misplaced Pages articles destroyed. The problem is not the source, the problem is that it's Indian. The zero international recognition that Indian sources receive is the main reason to that. And it saddens me. I cannot concede. Shahid • 22:42, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

You know John, I can imagine that you are now very surprised with my response, but I think you can somehow there understand my concern. Shahid • 22:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I really agree with you. It's not the case however. "which is really only about the revenue information." -- that's the problem, it's not only revenue information. As you know, revenues are almost always different and even contradicting, the only thing that remains steady is the verdict: "biggest hit", "top-grossing" etc., even when it comes to American trade sites.

The matter is, something I cannot understand and am very skeptical about, is the usage of this source in very reliable sites. Forget ToI, forget Hindustan Times, but Times Online, an internationally recognised newspaper. Are the editors of this newspaper less intelligent and/or responsible than we Misplaced Pages editors are? I believe the site is very careful and must assure that they use the best sources as their sources. How can we ignore that? I really respect Girolamo, who seems to be as intelligent as you are, but what about User:Nichalp, User:Spartaz who did accept the source?

What do you mean by "If other sources which do cite that source can be found" - there are...

Please believe me John, if I hadn't been sure of this site's realibility from the beginning, I would never have used it. But the information is accurate, the site is definitely not a blog, it is very active, and the info is always approved, I say that as someone who is very aware of what goes on in the Indian media.

I'll see what happens until tomorrow. I've messaged Girolamo and Geometry guy, whose note re BOI on the FAC was very impressive.

Now I have to go. Thanks for the help, I really appreciate your great efforts. Shahid • 23:18, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello John! You must see the bottom of the noticeboard page! Sarvagnya now questions the reliability of boxofficemojo.com as well in the same way he did that with BOI. I think it makes some things clear. Shahid • 17:20, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

John, first of all, I'm sorry if I did/said something wrong yesterday. Secondly, Gguy commented on the noticeboard. Regards, Shahid • 18:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I know you're busy right now, but I would also like to note that you told Sarvagnya at the beginning of the discussion to prove that BOI is a self-published source. He did not do that, although User:Haemo supported you, and then continues citing to WP:SPS, which actually was not relevant because he hadn't proved its being a self-published source. I believe we can still fight for this source. It was not an easy task to look for other BO statistics, and without that site it will be very difficult to make high quality articles. Regards, Shahid • 19:01, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

User:John Z has posted a very valid comment here today - his point is extremely valid. It's a big WOW! But it went unnoticed because it was not posted in the right subsection, because there are several subsections after "break on Boxofficeindia.com: special invitation for broader input", and he may have mistakenly considered themas new topics. We should contact him and ask him to move his message to the last relevant subsection of BOI. Shahid • 16:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

>Poke<Poke<-2008-05-12T22:30:00.000Z">

• Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Council/Proposals

: )

- jc37 22:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)Poke<"> Poke<">

how to take part in "Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Sarvagnya"

dear John_Carter , i wish if i would have some examples or assistance dealing with this page. regards:--@ the $un$hine . (talk) 23:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Weird edit conflict

I can't figure it out, but I think your support somehow got swallowed up in a weird edit conflict, because it's not showing on the page? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:41, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Very weird. I did a null edit and now it's there. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:45, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: kitties

Well, I assume you've read the relevant stuff here already? ;-)

Other than that, I'd suggest taking things slowly and not getting caught up in trying to change everything at once; that tends to lead to burnout (either yours or the rest of the members'). Particularly with a project such as Christianity, I'd suggest focusing initially on bringing all the various sub-groups onto the same page and consolidating them as much as possible.

Beyond that, watching what good ideas other projects come up with and adapting them for your own purposes tends to be fairly beneficial. It's largely a question of what the active membership wants and/or can sustain, though. Kirill 01:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot

Thanks a lot for the award and kindwords. You made me really happy -- TinuCherian - 05:42, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

May 2008 Newsletter

May 2008 Newsletter is ready to take off at Template:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/May_2008 . Let me know if there are any concerns or suggestions asap.I had asked BetacommandBot for delivery -- TinuCherian - 05:43, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Board elections/2008

Well I do have a lot of ideas certainly as to how the wikimedia project can develop, for starters developing the most advanced translation and comprehensive language service on the web which I feel is extremely imortant in breaking down barriers in the world of knowledge. Any site which attempts to achieve the "sum of all knowledge free to anyone in their own language" cannot go on ignoring language development and how easier it would be if different wikipedias could translate across the project with a service.

I'm not sure how I would go about it being a board member, I also think I have good credentials, but if it means I would have to travel across the globe just to attend meetings then I would have to decline. Its a nice thought though. Regards ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 11:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

GeoBot

Hi there. We've requested the creation and programming of a new GeoBot. You are invited to join in the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Bot requests#Some type of GeoBot ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 15:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Not the response I wanted at the requests page. Seems some people think it likely the Burmese goverment is going to start donating information about its 40,000 settlements. Thinks have to be made so awkward on this site don't they. I don't know why I bother to even look at a wiki discussion page. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 20:31, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

edit potection request

edit protect request for the grunge music page for a couple of weeks the page is being reverted constantly--Wikiscribe (talk) 14:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

BVM: I quote

Because others have re-added my content and History2007 re-removed without disussion again, he writes:

I think my revert of your edits should remain. This matter is in the hands of administrators, therefore, please discuss it with them, not me. Thank you. History2007 (talk) 14:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Mediation is not where an administrator comes in and fixes one person-- they mediate between people. Than means it is already between you and I (at least) and that for a mediation to take place-- you have to take part!

Yes, we know that you your revert should remain-- and you have a right to an opinion-- but not to just have things your way you want it-- nor to just have things your way because you "asked for mediation." --Carlaude (talk) 17:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

How is it that I am said to be violating WP:AGF and WP:CONSENSUS, or that History2007 is not? --Carlaude (talk) 17:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Basically, because it seems your changes may have been contrary to the consensus, so he could be seen as trying to act to support the consensus which arose. If you want to request formal mediation on the article, fine, do so at Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation. I haven't myself had all the time required to review all your changes, but I think formal mediation would probably be the way to go here. John Carter (talk) 17:08, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

While I know it was a long discussion, if you read a bit more carefully you will see that the 9:2 vote was only on a merge-- an issue that someone else suggested-- is not really at issue here-- and that people used as a straw figure even back then after it was dropped a possibility.

Is this why you think he has consensus?

The vote here on a rename would be the relativant issue, if any of them are, and it had no consensus.

Further more, History2007 is the only one I notice with this bone to pick (against me), but someone else this morning begin putting back in my changes on his own, until History2007 undid and claimed some authority. I know that 2:1 is not much of a consensus but it looks to me like it is more with me than against me.

But-- even if History2007 did have "consensus" of something-- why is he impcitly permitted to undo my edits when he will not state his case or even state what "the consensus view" is?

Flooding of the Nile

Hey John! Any particular reason the Egypt banner was deleted when the ancient Egypt banner was added? I was curious if this is something that you're doing for other articles where the subject might fall within the scope of both projects. This however will prevent it from being assessed in the other project. — Zerida ☥ 01:38, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikiquette alert

A Wikiquette alert over User:History2007 conduct on Blessed Virgin Mary and related pages has been posted. --Carlaude (talk) 20:31, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

FA Zinta

John, Shahid has requested to close the nomination early as he feels it will never pass. I on the other hand think differently and it is virtually there is we can solve those small problems. But people could really give the guy a break with the criticisms. Please offer your thoughts. Thanks ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 21:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I have nothing to tell you except for thank you for the amazing help. I told everyone that it's reliable, nobody listened. Some editors think they have the authority to decide things. They did not even prove its being SPS, so how can we take it at face value? And I'm very tired. In a month or so, I'm leaving Misplaced Pages. Until then, I want to do something substatial, which will let me leave the project with a smile on my face. But when I see that my attempt to address a comment is being reverted with no basis, it's the last straw. Best regards, Shahid • 22:09, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see the history. Shahid • 22:11, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

So is now BOI considered reliable? (at least by Giro) Shahid • 22:14, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

His answer to me: "I've acknowledged that I won't continue to contest it at the moment" Shahid • 22:22, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

For the record, it was shown to be an SPS. That's not the reason why I conceded the issue. Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 22:23, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I personally feel there is no such thing as "someone's word carries more weight than a lot of people" because all editors are equal, regardless of what role they have on here. Relata for example is a perfect example. Now, as for others, whose opinions I do not consider valuable at all (IMHonestO), they should understand what consensus is. If they continue to oppose even after Girolamo doesn't, it will be a perfect evidence that it's just a matter of personal caprice. Shahid • 22:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, if they are all equal, then why should they bow down to my change? It doesn't stand to reason. Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 22:51, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Because there is consensus; and they remain the sole editor to oppose. Don't you think they are all equal? Shahid • 22:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

One has the right to continue to disagree. Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 23:13, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. Shahid • 23:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't see why you think of Giro as a ruler either John. He is a great editor and coordinator of films and is an educated and wise user, but he still isn't an authority which you seem to imply, its still a matter of opinion. I find it very odd that because Giro sees some evidence of reliability of the source now suddenly there is an end of any doubt whatsoever. I have to admit that the new developments clearly assert reliability of the source anyway which was never the major issue is was portrayed to be, but that isn't because Giro says so but because the evidence presented by other people has made it more clearer.

RfC Sarvagnya

I undeleted the page just to double-check Sheffield's involvement on the talk page. It seems Sheffield had some input on the talk page (some comments regarding Sarvagnya and sources). It looks like he's trying to resolve a dispute regarding the article's sources. After a quick review, I think we can let the RfC proceed. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 23:11, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the issue is user conduct. I don't think SS made any attempt to resolve this issue. Also, besides a Wikiquette posting and your postings on his talk page (which he reverted), I don't think Sarvagnya's conduct has been discussed. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 23:26, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

And just a heads-up, comments like and aren't going to make any headway in trying to get another user to be more civil. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 23:45, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

The second wasn't mine, but I understand the point taken. John Carter (talk) 23:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Too lazy to post on both your talk pages...but you know what I mean. :) Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 23:52, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

You can leave some notes on user talk pages, but please make your notice "neutral". Don't overstep the bounds of WP:CANVASS and you should be fine. You can also leave a link on relevant article talk pages (Hogenakkal Falls, in this case) to inform users. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 01:01, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Last stupid question. I've seen in the past just saying "Let's confine our comments to the article, not each other, please," can be effective. Does it qualify as a semi-formal "warning" for RfC purposes, though?

I'm not sure I understand, but I'll take a stab anyway. If you mean a "warning", as part of the attempt to resolve a user's conduct issues, then no, I don't think this would be sufficient for RfC. Please tell me if my answer helps at all. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 03:09, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I think that's the answer I was looking for, thanks. John Carter (talk) 20:45, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

New BVM Fork

Ambrosius007, History2007, and Xandar seem intent on making two articles, Blessed Virgin Mary‎ & Blessed Virgin Mary (Roman Catholic), to the same with the same material-- and proved (to me anyway) that they do not understand the WP:FORK policy. What do you recommend? --Carlaude (talk) 01:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Huge orphaned category; needs WikiProject Islam's attention

Could you take a look at the following categories: Category:Years AH, Category:Decades AH, Category:Centuries AH? These are really sparse, and a lot of the pages are just stubs. It looks like a project that someone started that got abandoned. I'm not really sure what should be done with them (perhaps condense into a single time-line?), but I am reasonably sure that this shouldn't stay the way it is. What do you think? TallNapoleon (talk) 05:19, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Whoops, didn't do the links correctly. They're fixed now. TallNapoleon (talk) 20:33, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll leave a message, but I don't think it's likely I'll get a response, per his user page:

I'm sick of the censorship posing NPOV and also about people meddling in articles they don't know anything about. My time is too precious to be wasted on people who can't value it. I'm not active here anymore, just checking things out from time to time. Do leave a message if you want, but don't count on any response or enthusiasm.

— User:Striver

TallNapoleon (talk) 20:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

K, message posted. TallNapoleon (talk) 21:01, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Smith's Bible Dictionary available in print.

As Lead Coordinator of WP:Christianity I thought you would want to know that Smith's Bible Dictionary (Public Domain) is available in print from Thomas Nelson. I can't put a link to the web page because it keeps going wrong. Where I am in Australia it is available at Koorong. This information is also at WP:Christianity Talk Page. Kathleen.wright5 10:22, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter

The Christianity WikiProject Newsletter

The Christianity WikiProject Newsletter! Issue V - May 2008 Article News 49 ( earlier 24) articles are at FA level and 94 (Earlier 44) are GA level articles. You can help by adopting a topic. Articles needing improvement can be found in Category:Christianity stubs. Project News Go on over to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Christianity. A lot is going on and your input is needed! Look over the recent changes list for recent improvements to articles, other changes and vandalism. WikiProject Christianity Coordinators : The project coordinators are generally responsible for maintaining all of the procedural and administrative aspects of the project, and serve as the designated points-of-contact for procedural issues. They are not, however, endowed with any special executive powers, nor with any authority over article content or editor conduct.The Lead Coordinator bears overall responsibility for coordinating the project; the Assistant Coordinators aid the Lead Coordinator and focus on specific areas that require special attention. The following Coordinators were elected after Elections 2008 Lead Coordinator : John Carter Assistant Coordinators : Tinucherian and Secisek Congratulations to the newly elected Project Coordinators. It has been proposed that Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Serbian Orthodox Church be merged into Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy. All opinions are welcome. One new workgroup was formed - Christianity in China Portal:Christianity in China was launched. Portal:Indian Christianity was renamed to Portal:Christianity in India Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Indian Christianity was renamed to Christianity in India Work Group There is also a discussion regarding whether any new subportals dealing with Christianity should be created here. All inputs are welcome. Bot Assisted Assessment was used for the unassessed project articles. Should you need any manual reassessment , kindly request it here. Member News Our membership continues to expand. It is currently at 223 users. 39 new users have joined the WikiProject in the month of April 2008. Please make them feel welcomed! Christianity Articles by Quality Make visible or invisible by clicking Show or Hide, respectively. Christianity articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low NA Other ??? Total FA 10 9 37 126 3 1 186 FL 1 14 20 35 FM 209 1 210 A 1 1 2 GA 21 15 192 449 35 3 715 B 224 263 803 2,235 392 233 4,150 C 347 806 2,309 6,769 1 2,491 639 13,362 Start 218 221 1,303 18,684 2 10,455 1,008 31,891 Stub 1 10 257 14,652 8,258 486 23,664 List 13 39 702 1,011 2 79 29 1,875 Category 19,431 1,301 20,732 Disambig 325 18 343 File 683 3 686 Portal 39 1 40 Project 123 7 130 Redirect 6 41 109 665 937 273 2 2,033 Template 1,826 113 1,939 NA 28 10 38 Other 201 201 Assessed 841 1,405 5,726 44,640 23,789 23,430 2,401 102,232 Unassessed 1 4 8 9 22 Total 841 1,405 5,727 44,644 23,789 23,438 2,410 102,254 WikiWork factors (?) ω = 368,855 Ω = 4.99 To do list of the Project Make visible or invisible by clicking Show or Hide, respectively. Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : Abundant Living Christian Fellowship; African Universal Church; Alpha and Omega Christian Church and Bible School; Altar Fellowship; American Catholic Church, Archdiocese of New York; American Christian Commission; American Missiology Society; American Mission for Opening Churches; Antiochan Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of Mexico; Apostolic Faith (Hawaii); Apostolic Faith (Kansas); Apostolic Faith Bible College; Asian-American Protestants; Assemblies of Yahweh (Michigan); Assembly of the Called Out Ones of Yah; Assembly of Yahvah (Alabama); Assembly of Yahvah (Oregon); Associated Churches of God; Association of Fundamental Gospel Churches; Association of Seventh Day Pentecostal Assemblies; Association of United Baptists (Green River, Kentucky); Banner Herald (Progressive); Baptist Missionary Association; Barefoot Ministries; Benjamin Fay Mills; Berean Bible Society; Bible Holiness Movement; Bible Protestant Church; California Evangelistic Association; Calvary Ministries, Inc.; Christian Holiness Association; Christian Identity Church (currently a redirect); Christian Millenial Church; Christianity and the American Revolution; Christ's Church (Mormon); Church of Antioch (Liberal Catholic); Church of Christ (Holiness); Church of Christian Liberty; Church of God Evangelistic Association; Church of God (Jerusalem Acres); Church of God of the Mountain Assembly; Church of God (Sanctified Church); Church of God (Seventh-Day, Salem, West Virginia); Church of God (World Headquarters); Church of the Bible Covenant; Church of the Living God (Christian Workers for Fellowship); Church of the Living God, the Pillar and Ground of Truth; Church of the Trinity (Invisible Ministry); Churches of God (Independent Holiness People); Community of the Love of Christ (Evangelical Catholic); Congregational Bible Church; Davis Swing; Defenders of the Faith (page currently is for a Judas Priest album); Deliverance Evangelical Centers; Divine Science Federation International; Edward Scribner Ames; Emmanuel Association; Emmanuel Holiness Church; Emmanuel's Fellowship; Evangelical Friends Alliance; Evangelical Friends Church, Eastern Region; Evangelical Mennonite Brethren Church; Evangelical Methodist Church of America; Evangelical Orthodox (Catholic) Church; Federation for Authentic Lutheranism; Federation of St. Thomas Christian Churches; Forked Deer Association (Regular); Frank Nathan Daniel Buckman; Free Church of Berkeley; Free Will Baptist Church of the Pentecostal Faith; Friends United Meeting - Western Yearly Meeting; Full Gospel Minister Association; Fundamental Fellowship; General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church; General Council of the Churches of God; Gospel Assemblies (Sowder); Gospel Mission Corps; Grace and Hope Mission; Grace Gospel Fellowship; Herbert Lockwood Willett; Holiness Christian Church (currently a redirect); Holiness Today; Holy Synod in Resistance; House of Prayer for All People; Hungarian Reformed Church; Independent Assemblies of God International; Independent Christian Churches International; International Evangelism Crusades; International Ministerial Fellowship; James Harvey Garrison; Jesus People Church; Johan Conrad Beissel; John William McGarvey; Kehukee (North Carolina) Association (Predesinarian); Kentucky Mountain Holiness Association; Ketocton (North Carolina) Association (Regulars); Last Day Messenger Assemblies; Liberal Catholic Church, Province of the United States; Liberty Fellowship; Lillenas; Maranatha Christian Churches; Mariavite Old Catholic Church - Province of North America; Megiddo Mission; Metropolitan Church Association; Mid-American Yearly Meeting; Midwest Congregational Christian Church; Miracles Experiences, Inc.; Mission Corp; Missionary Methodist Church; Mount Zion Sanctuary; National Association of Holiness Churches; National Council of Congregational Churches; National Holiness Association; Nazarene Compassionate Ministries; Nazarene Youth Conference; Nazarene Youth International; New Bethel Church of God in Christ; New Order of Glastonbury; North American Old Roman Catholic Church; Ohio Bible Church; Old Catholic Church (Hamel), Congregation of St. Paul; Old Catholic Church in America; Old Holy Catholic Church, Province of North America; Oriental Missionary Society Holiness Conference of North America; Orthodox Church of Canada - Orthodox Church of the New World (USA); Pacific Yearly Meeting; Pan African Orthodox Christian Church; Pentecostal Church of Zion; Pentecostal Fire-Baptized Holiness Church; Phoenix Institute (Church of Man); Prophetic Bible Conference of 1914; Prophetic Herald Ministry; Renaissance Church of Beauty; Rocky Mountain Yearly Meeting; Seventh Day Baptist General Conference; Seventh Day Church of God; Soldiers of the Cross of Christ; Sons Ahman Israel; Sucarnochee River (Mississippi) Association (Black); Sudat School Ministries; Syro-Chaldean Church of North America; Tayu Fellowship; True Church of Christ, Restored (Roberts); Union Association of Regular Baptist Churches; Union of Spiritual Communities of Christ; United Church of Jesus Christ (Apostolic); United Church of Religious Science (currently a redirect to a list); United Evangelical Churches; Universal Christian Spiritual Faith and Churches for All Nations (National David Spiritual Temple); Universal Industrial Church of the New World Comforter (One World Commune); Universal Peace Mission Movement; Upper Country Line (North Carolina) Association (Predestinarian); Walter Scott (Disciples of Christ); Wesleyan Tabernacle Association; Wesleyan Tabernacle Association of Churches; Youth in Mission; Cleanup : Christendom; Connexion; Crossley Hospital; Georgia District Church of the Nazarene; Holiness movement; Hyperdispensationalism; Lord's Day; Pablo Salazar Mendiguchia; Primitive Methodism; World Day of Prayer; Copyedit : All Saints Church, West Dulwich, Asia-Pacific Nazarene Theological Seminary; Blessed Virgin Mary; Christian mysticism in ancient Africa; Fresh Expressions; Nazarene Caravan; Sacraments of Initiation; Soul; The Gift of God; Expand : Apocalypticism; Christianity in the Middle East; Conservative Evangelicalism; History of Calvinism Merge : Atonement (governmental view); Christian Church; Christian perfection; Christianity by country; Eucharistic discipline; Oecumene; Open communion; Religions by country; Sinless perfection; NPOV : Bill Gothard; Christian Hebraist; Christian terrorism; List of Eastern Orthodox jurisdictions in North America; Mary Baker Eddy; Semi-Arianism Update : Calvinistic Methodists; Karl Ullmann Verify : Albert Outler; All Saints Church, West Dulwich; Antinomianism; Apocalypticism; Asbury College; Asia-Pacific Nazarene Theological Seminary; Awesome God; Catholic; Christendom; Christian; Christian counseling; Christian Science; Christian terrorism; Christianity in the Middle East; Christmas Conference (Methodism); Church; Church architecture; Connexion (religion); Darrel R. Falk; Deuteronomic Code;Evangelical Church (ECNA); Fresh Expressions; George Rapp; Georgia District Church of the Nazarene; Gideon B. Williamson; Historical Christianity; Hyperdispensationalism; Jacob Albright; James Dobson; John Humphrey Noyes; Justification (theology); List of churches in London; List of Eastern Orthodox jurisdictions in North America; Louis Agassiz; Manchester Higher Openshaw; Mary Baker Eddy; Methodism; Methodist Federation for Social Action; Nazarene Caravan; Nazarene International Education Association; Nazarene Publishing House; Nazarene Theological College, Manchester; O for a Thousand Tongues to Sing; Paradise Community Church; Paul Cunningham; Postdenominationalism; Predestination (Calvinism); Righteous indignation; Sacraments of Initiation; Samaritan Institute; Soul; The Bible in Spain; The Gift of God; Theotokos; William Clowes (Primitive Methodist); The Salvation Army in Manchester; Stone of Scone; William J. Prince; World Day of Prayer; Nazarene Missionaries; Other : Stanley Rader; Christian mysticism in ancient Africa; Consecration; NYUK; Phoebe Palmer; Sacrament; Sanctification; Seneca Falls Convention; Thomas Jay Oord; World Day of Prayer; Family Radio; Biblical hermeneutics; Second Council of Ephesus/Robber Synod; Archives of previous newsletters can be found here. To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, add your name here. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, let ~ The Newsletter Editors know. This newsletter is automatically delivered by Addbot (talk) 15:31, 15 May 2008 (UTC) .

Re: Pilate's Wife

I'm not sure. The article does need work, and there is no doubt about that. It needs quite a bit of polishing and improved sourcing - but locking it down might be the best solution. I just hate to lose the chance to improve the article. We are also (I believe) up against our 3 reverts for the day. Pastordavid (talk) 17:02, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Insult

John if for some reason I ever get into an argument with you you'll be sure not to call me a Bald Knob won't you?. LOL I can't believe a settlement exists under that name. Oh I hate you Blofeld you;re just a "Bald Knob". He-he-he-he ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 19:36, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

OH LOL thats a good one. The funny thing is naturally its innocent and dates back to the 1000s after a man named Focko. Blofeld is Belgian but his lair was at the top of Piz Gloria in Switzerland in 1969 when he tried to assume the title Count de Blofeld. Chuckle chuckle. Oh I aim to get some sort of sub wiki project page system created for much of Africa over the next week or so where I can lay out the red links by creating pages for the regional/district templates like country like I have done to burkina Faso. CHeck out Category:Cities, towns and villages in Togo for instance. A week or two ago it only had about 15 articles ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 19:44, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Thats the way to do it. The category Category:Cities, towns and villages in Bamingui-Bangoran was created earlier. This way we can stuctually work through every region of each country and really get these places onto here as you requested before. According to Sadalmelik government data is gradually becoming avialable on thes eplaces too to expand in future. What do you think? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 20:57, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Well it would certainly be too big a task to complete manually. The best I can do is lay out all the templates and red links and start one or two regions in detail across the world. I could probably get through an entire medium sized african country in a few weeks if I stuck to it. The thing is out there somwehere there should be info avilable to expand them into start class articles. I never dreamed we'd have twenty decent articles on Madagascar for instance. I rmemeber adding a few about two years ago but there was nothing avialable at the time so I gave up. Now Sadalemik in finding a source has generated well over 1000 decent articles to date and it is proof that it can be done. Somebody else has also done a similar thing with Ethiopia and there are some surprsingly detailed articles on its settlements too. Oh if we could get a bot sorted it would be like the Rambot run a few years back only this time 10 times the scale. The article count of wikipedia potentially would nearly double. Structually it would be very important for the encyclopedia to achieve this and they would gradually be built upon over time. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 21:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

New York bridge

I know lets look at a wonderful picture of the bridge (AGAIN) LOL.

I am kidding of course but I;ve lost count how many times the images have been moved around in that article. Its not important though Black Kite stills looks like he will oppose anyway ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 17:08, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Somebody informed me they have done work on Andrianampoinimerina. While the content is good the writing is not too good in places -some of the sentences are 7 lines long and almost no paragraphs either. Some of the links in that article are crazy. Interested in starting an article on his grandfather Rakotomavo Andriambelomasina Andriamaheritsialainolotany?. Now thats a mouthful ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 18:16, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Re:

Thanks for the suggestion, John. SheffieldSteel has started mediating, lets see what turns out. -- ¿Amar៛ 07:30, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

RFA Thanks

Thanks for your support at my recent Request for adminship. Glad to have been able to clear up that gender thing for you. ;-) I hope you find I live up to your expectations. Best, Risker (talk) 16:29, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

RfA thanks!

		RfA: Many thanks
		Many thanks for your participation in my recent request for adminship. I am impressed by the amount of thought that goes into people's contribution to the RfA process, and humbled that so many have chosen to trust me with this new responsibility. I step into this new role cautiously, but will do my very best to live up to your kind words and expectations, and to further the project of the encyclopedia. Again, thank you. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 06:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Bot

Things are now looking very promising having spoken to a programmer User talk:Fritzpoll. There is also a US. geo data source which has 900kb of names and coordinates which could be used. Later the articles should try to expand if we can obtain national government data on population etc. But this is the best thing we can do for starters. Sound good? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 09:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Also can you get JohnBot to tag the articles in Category:Cities, towns and villages in Algeria cheers ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 11:57, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

LOL I can see you were hard away at tagging religious articles. Whatever happened to just Catholicism vs Protestantism??, Muslims in the middle east, Sikhs and Hindus in India and then and buddhists, confucionists and taoists in the far east? Yes I have my hopes for this especially as it is using National Geospatial Intelligence Agency as a main source which nobody can argue isn't as reliable as you can get for such a task. Names and coordinates are non copywrightable particularly as they are extracted from public domain sources. The only way I can see it being disapproved is by somebody claiming otherwise. So I won't be celebrating until the bot has been apporved and has got well into the task at hand. But anybody can see that potentially the encyclopedia could nearly double in size if it fulfilled its potential and it would allow editors to spend more time trying to expand articles rather than spending virtually all of there time in trying to start a small percentage of just one country. Not a bad goal of world domination huh? Blofeld is living up to his name ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 22:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

See here. Am I misreading something here LOL? Did the fairy god mother tag all of the togo articles I started then? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 22:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		Just had to award one for your persistent, tenacious efforts on the Hoggenkal Falls page. I came back to check on it and you and Shef.steel are STILL hanging in there. You ARE a tireless contributor! Renee (talk) 22:06, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks from me too. I really appreciate the effort you've put in. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 04:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Scottish National Antarctic Expedition

In the dark days of April 2007 you awarded this article a stub rating. It has since developed from a single line to a full length article, but still has a stub rating. I don't know how these things work, but shouldn't the stub be removed? Brianboulton (talk) 11:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject redirects

Can you please help me understand this? Do we redirect France, Germany, Italy and Spain to Europe? I don't understand this; I'll follow your page for response to keep discussion together. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:49, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Per Talk:Spain, it appears we don't redirect WikiProject Spain to Europe, so why are South American country Projects disappearing? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:57, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd also like to know where the discussion took place about this where you're combining a whole bunch of wikiprojects into one group. Are those projects subsumed into Christianity now? Ealdgyth - Talk 16:04, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Basically, I had received a message, I think from Blofeld, although I can't find it right now, that the Venezuela banner didn't have assessments, and that he thought it was time to add some. Like I said, though, I can't find it right now. Considering that party has been making a lot of stubs for settlements in various nations, it struck me as reasonable to either add assessment parameters to the banner or use the existing SA banner, which does already include assessment parameters for Venezuela. It didn't occur to me that there would be any objections, but that it would be a lot of effort to replace the banners to add assessments for Venezuela, so a soft redirect seemed the way to go. Regarding the Dunstan article banner adjustment, that isn't an attempt to "subsume" the projects into Christianity, although I can say that the projects on Eastern Orthodoxy, Church of the Nazarene, unofficially Saints, the group with which I have the closest ties, and I think one or two others have agreed to such use of multiple banners, but just as a way to reduce the amount of banner clutter while at the same time maintaining individual assessment for each. None of the assessment information was lost in the change, and in fact, the EO Project, which recognizes that individual as a saint and thus considers him important to some degree, was added as well. John Carter (talk) 13:06, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not an official member of any of the religion projects, but I do a LOT of article writing for them, so it might be a good idea to check with them about it, because a causual reading of the banner there at Dunstan sure looks like Christianity is the main project and the others are now supporting/part of the bigger project. Sounds like a good idea in the abstract, just not sure how well it'd work in practice. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:21, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, John Carter, but I'm not completely following your response (perhaps because I don't know how banners etc. are coded). The decision to eliminate Venezuela banners was because one user asked you to, with no discussion elsewhere? Is the problem that the banner doesn't allow assessments or that the Project hasn't done then? If you specify the problem in a way I can understand, I'll make sure it's fixed at the Venezuela banner level. Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:04, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I didn't myself check to see if the party making the proposal had mentioned it anywhere else, I guess assuming it had been done. If it were wanted to adjust the Venezuela banner for assessments, I could do that myself to fit the existing categories created for the SA banner, but got the impression from the message (which I really wish I could find now to provide verification) that the project was comparatively inactive and that he would be starting on the several hundred or thousand yet to be started articles on settlements in Venezuela presently, like he's recently done with Togo. John Carter (talk) 15:14, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

(ec reply) Don't worry, you don't need to produce the post, I'm not questioning your motives or the truth of what you're saying :-) I am trying to understand where the problem lies, how it can be fixed, and how one person can determine that a WikiProject should disappear from talk pages (I hope that doesn't happen again without broader discussion, and in this case, it was a particularly bad choice). Shall I ask someone to fix the Venezuela banner, or is that something you can do? Exactly what is the problem, and I will see that it's attended to if necessary. The reason that a number of Venezuelans editors are less active lately would be a large tangent to this discussion, so I won't go into it here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand what has happened here? Didn't we find a Venezuelan banner which didn't work or have assessment parameters??? It seems like a ages ago but wasn't it true that many of the banners on many of the Venezuelan articles didn't have assessments and John took the necessary action to correct this and ensure they had proper assessments. Wasn't what he did with Venezuela in assesing articles under South America in line with his work in keeping other small active projects under the regional ones? What about all of the african and asian wikiprojects which are assessed in the same way. Personally I am all for each project to have hundreds of editors to make it a valid seperate project but I don't see much evidence of the amount of editors working on American/French articles etc as Venezuelan. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 15:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Catholicism has hundreds of editors. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

But what have Venezuelan assessment banners got to do with Catholicism??? If John tagged any of the Venezuelan articles he would have been sure to tag again for WP:Catholicism so they have two tags. IN my view every country on wikipedia should be regarded as even and have even coverage but given the few editors who edit Venezuelan articles (considerably less than Argentina) for example are there enough editors to sustain a fully fledged project. I observed a number of the project members a while back and remember discussing with John how suprised I was at how inactive the project and its editors had become. I remember noting there were many members from Caracas which I thought was great but their activity seemd to have died down considerably ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 15:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC

Catholocism doesn't have anything to do with Ven except that I noticed that he was consolidating denominational project banners under Wikiproject Christianity, kinda like what was happening with SA and Ven. That's all. I brought it to the attention here, and John replied. I still think he should point this out to the various projects, especially the Anglicanism project which is reasonably active, but it's not a big deal. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

What seemed the case Sandy was that the WP:Venezuela banner didn't appar to have assessment categories which was the problem. Wasn't this true John? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 15:34, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

(several ec's later)In response to Sandy, as one of the editors with the Catholicism project and a practicing RC myself, I know how big that project is. However, the banner didn't really "disappear" from the talk page there, it was placed in a "slash" arrangement with the Saints and EO banners after the Christianity banner with the assessments remaining in place, just basically reducing the number of banners on that article. They also appear separately in the "drop-down" section of the banner when the full banner is visible. In the Dunstan case in particular, I however might have been better advised to leave the existing banners in place, and probably won't do anything similar without more obvious cause, like perhaps consolidating the Oriental Orthodoxy banner into Christianity on an article about a Catholic bishop who is a comparatively minor saint to the OO. In several of the other articles which hadn't yet been tagged for the relevant Christianity projects, I am "tagging" the articles for all the related projects with just the one Christianity banner just for the purposes of reducing the number of separate banners. Lots of these individuals are venerated as saints or equivalent by several of the five churches which have separate projects, all of which would presumably want to tag the article. Granted, with the British bishops I'm going through now, its been mainly Anglicanism and Catholicism so far, but when I get out of England that will change rather dramatically I think. John Carter (talk) 15:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

(teases John) Just be nice to "my" bishops! Ealdgyth - Talk 15:51, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm still completely baffled as to how this ties in with WP:Venezuela?? Sorry you;ve lost me on that one ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 16:48, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Croatia

I just noticed that Croatia doesn't seem to have anything sorted for tagging. It has a project tag and categories ready for assessment but as yet they don't seem to work. Could you look into it when you have a mo, cheers ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 20:19, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Blofeld of SPECTRE. Do I accept this time? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 21:04, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid I turned it down John, chiefly because editors who I have had past disagreements with will have a field day in collecting "evidence" as to why I shouldn't have tools to help wikipedia even further. Likely sources of my "misconduct" are likely to be obtained from the Preity Zinta ordeal or any disagreeable editors I have encountered in the past. The thing is if I was made an admin I would be extra careful to monitor my edits and posts to other editors and try to exhibit the most exemplary behaviour to other editors as possible. I have done more than create articles on here, I have done a great deal of maintencance work and sorting out trouble and helping other editors considerably also on many occasions. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 13:45, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Governance reform

I haven't been able to keep up with the persistently rapidly progressing discussion—I actually stopped reading around the end of April. I am really interested in the matter, but have no time to read all this. It seems to me that you have managed to stay abreast of the developments; could you furnish me, if possible, with a short summary of where the discussion has been through and whither it is headed, so that I may contribute again with my views? I'd appreciate it a lot, Mr Carter. Waltham, The Duke of 02:56, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Theology workgroup?

John, good idea on the general discussion forum. It got me thinking about a theology workgroup, and I threw this together as a possible starting point. See what you think. Pastordavid (talk) 20:16, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Religion/New religious movements work group

An interesting idea, though from the looks of beginning discussions has the likelihood of being extremely polarizing and divisive (with heated discussions over the name of the work group itself, no less.) Though it does sound interesting even given all that, I've got my hands full at the moment with various featured-content drives. Thank you for thinking of me. Cirt (talk) 01:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Sports facilities

Hi, John Carter. I am attempting to revive WP:WikiProject Sports facilities and see that you have made some contributions relative to this project in the past. Consider yourself invited to stop by the Project and contribute to getting it back up and running. Best wishes. --Gwguffey (talk) 05:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

For the additions to the Supreme Court wikiproject. That was very helpful. Remember (talk) 20:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Memories

Hi came across the lack of tags on charismatic christianity project category pages and thought id ask you - is it better to have the larger project christianity tag with the sub ref to charsimatic - or is it ok to use the CharismaticWikiProject tag - saw your comment at talk at the charismatic project which looked as though no one had asnswered you in january :) SatuSuro 01:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

To be honest parts of that area look like a jungle :) - the possibility of overlaps between various denominational and other issues would probably be much safer just to lump em under the larger christianity project i think - thanks for your speedy - cheers - and in the tibetan buddhist sense - may you be well SatuSuro 01:13, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Zeuspitar‎

John, can you please record your view on this page please? Wikidās-ॐ 16:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

This too shall pass

John, would you please take a look at that article? I've tagged it for having multiple issues that need cleaning up. I'd like relevant projects to be able to see it, but I'm not sure where to categorize it (Category:Bible verses or Category:Jewish folklore maybe? not sure that first possibility would be accurate) I thought you might have a better idea. Aleta 16:13, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

semi protect request

hello John ,i want to ask for a long term semi protect for the Eye color article,though this may seem like non controversial article,it's being bombarded with with vandalism and random changes by isp's that are destroying any integrity the article might have,its geting hard to keep up with it--Wikiscribe (talk) 16:19, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Zeuspitar‎ - complete

John, Thank you for your instruction. I have updated the page as discussed. I have previously attempted an informal mediation and posted on Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts so I have no other way. If you find that any of the comments he made are against the policy please note. Wikidās-ॐ 20:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Its a complicated process. It seems I have two editors who endorse the summary. I would imagine thats sufficient to move the case to the second approved cases part. Its interesting in the approved section, nobody put their name on the first case line. Do I really need it? Wikidās-ॐ 21:41, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

How long does the process take? Will I be able make a comment myself ones its out there? Wikidās-ॐ 12:55, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Parisal/theppa

Hey John,

I reckon there is enough of Karnataka VS Tamil Nadu war of words and edits on wikipedia already. I do not think we want any more article that way. Both are just the same in respective languages. Other than my thoughts on taking both to coracle a seperate article on Hide boats of India or Coracles of India can be made which can mention that these boats are called parisal in Tamil Nadu and theppa in Karnataka. What do you think? Wiki San Roze 22:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

John, I do like to be bold, but in the process, like I said in the talk page of Hogenakkal, I can be found guilty of ad hominem. I would rather leave it to other people to do that move. It is really funny to me that not too long ago I was called Kannada fanatic and now with Hogenakkal I guess I would end up being called a Tamil fanatic. Not that it bothers me, but kinda painful indeed. Enough of me grumbling, getting back to the boats, I guess its best to leave a message on the coracle page too, since editors there may help us with some good advice on it. Cheers Wiki San Roze 22:45, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

TfD: Template:VaishnavaSampradayasrs

I have nominated Template:VaishnavaSampradayasrs for deletion as suggested. Please comment and support/oppose the nomination there. Thanks --Shruti14 01:22, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Admin action requested

I would request you to put your firm put forward and put an end to the continuous nitpicking and stalling moves perpetrated by Wikiality and Sunshine in the Hogenakal Falls page. Uninvolved editors have done a good job to come up with a consensus which has been agreed upon by many people including yourself. Its time that the lead section as edited by SheffieldSteel is moved over to the main article. We cannot allow two people with one inconclusive document in hand to act as a barrier to a sane and reasonable solution. Please put an end to it. Thanks -- ¿Amar៛ 09:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

May I ask Amarrg to clarify, which of the following he or his team thinks is inconclusive?

Law Ministry

Encyclopædia Britannica

Economic Times

Times of India

Just to point out to Amarrg that before he and Sarvagnya joined at the talk page, there was a consensus reached which was opposed only by Naadapriya. When we had the manners and guts to take it to RfC, why is this party shying away from it? Ciao Wiki San Roze 10:24, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I wish to add this citation to Wiki San Roze

NDTV (New Delhi Television Limited) , i wish the Law Ministry report is more clear about the nations stand whereas the one produced otherwise are just state a single state's stand and not the nation as a whole . regards :--@ the $un$hine . (talk) 12:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Missing geo directory

Remember our little conversation a few weeks back about generating missing article pages for the wikirpojects. Lo and behold it has begun but with the use of a BOT (thank the lord). Have a look through some fo the already created pages at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/Places. Naturall the blue links will have to be checked and dabbed properly as when they are created the bot will bypass blue links. Can I count on your support and help with dabbing? It will be gradual but we need to ensure the bot has a clear run and doesn't overlook anything ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 17:15, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey you never thanked me!!! Thank the bot but ignore the manual guy who is going to dab and assess all of these places manually!! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 18:04, 24 May 2008 (UTC) ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 18:02, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Hehe thanks John I was kidding of course!. I know you fully appreciate me and I also feel the same way about your work also, thanks. Already the bot has done something which we've wanted for months in that it is generating a complete catalogue of missing articles which would have taken a huge amount to do manually. That alone is super news which we must thanks the ingenuity of Fritz for doing. But once it adds a possible 1.8 million articles and we have every place on the planet assessed and with an article this will be a magnificent achievement for wikipedia, imagine how it will look given time when more information becomes avialable and many places can be expanded fully, I really hope the bot gets approved asap so it can start. It would also mean that most of the geo articles on places have some level of consistency to start with and a standard infobox, map and reference which has always been a hiuge problem in the past and one in which I have been trying to address on a daily basis. It would mean years of editing time saved at just purely setting the articles up. I really think it is time the era of bots came into a greater function in creating articles in severely lacking areas. People have developed them so they clog our talk pages with 50,000 images but I want to see more examples of this happening in the mainspace to benefit the encyclopedia, kind of like RamBot did in the past but on a super scale run by several different editors in different areas of the project. It will be quite a task to dab all of the pages ready but quite small in relation to the main goal. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 18:18, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Yuck. Something alarming has been identified. At present google maps recognize 28,000 places in India. The 2001 census indicates there are 638,000 settlements in India which is enormous. What would you suggest? The best we can do is fill in the missing articles that google recognises I think but we may need to see if there is a source for India. I can't think why so many places aren't covered. I can't even begin to imagine what the toal number of places actually is. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 19:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I mean 28,000 articles on Indian towns would be super in itself but what seems strange is that Pakistan has 78,000 places on google maps in comparison. You'd think even if many were missing it would be the other way round. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 19:24, 24 May 2008 (UTC) Well I;ve lost count of how many times I've showed google to be hugely incomplete which is understandable in the way that wikipedia is. I believe we are using that US site as a primary source anyway, but using maplandia for guidance on subdivisions. However when Fritz gets to India it will be interesting to see what is listed on that site and whether it corresponds to google maps. I seriously doubt all 638,000 settlements would have claim to a full encyclopedia article. I'd imagine this includes a huge amount of hamlets or dwellings which may not qualify for an article although as you know I am open as much as possible on what could be written in. It will be interesting to see what Ganeshk has to ay about Indian census statistics as where possible the bot could be creating articles with a lot more referenced data than the standard if the sources can be found. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 19:43, 24 May 2008 (UTC) John you'd think that with satellite details on these places there must be a public domain image bank of satellite images of these places. I was editing some Congo articles the other day and it had a load of satellite images which wer epublic domain -some of them zoomed in so you could at least make out the outline of buildings. NASA is bound to have images of many places. Any ideas for sources for images? It may be a while before we can get photographs of mos tplaces from the ground but I find any image of a place useful ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 21:38, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Something like this but with "2.12 million" images ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 21:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

kindly remove the editing ban on "Talk:Hogenakkal Falls"

dear John Carter : kindly try to remove the editing ban on "Talk:Hogenakkal Falls" , this like attempt will keep off any new editor to work on ,with too many references with us and with null on the other side we waited for a long time for the discussion to progress in a civil way and were giving any possible replies and citation's to the queries ...but with two new citations that too not concerning the nations view but one sided only one states view he tries to not only ignore other editors but even prevents others from doing co which looks like this . so i wish you to do something that will permit us to discuss the same . regards :--@ the $un$hine . (talk) 18:42, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

many thanks for tht explanation buddy...wiki admin is superb..you people r really working hard to keep it amazing ...regards:--@ the $un$hine . (talk) 19:08, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

once again many thanks for your reply... i just got confused a bit with the sudden tag on the talk page and being a newbie i was unable to understand the style and place that edit ban request woul-ieffect..and onceagain a good work from the other admin from his part . regards:--@ the $un$hine . (talk) 19:47, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

yup buddy you are right ...this ( "Request to Editors: please do not add comments to this section. This section is only for Admn. Add your comments in new section. Adding comments here except for Admn will be disruptive.") sentence confused me a lot ...thanks for the explanation and for bringing me out of a mirage . regards:--@ the $un$hine . (talk) 20:04, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

why good citations not on discussions ??

dear John Carter : i wish to know why google earth (for - 12°6′54″N 77°46′33″E )which shows the exact location of hogenakkal falls has been ignored and these citations ( http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3910799 ,http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/feb102005/445.pdf ) too have no value in the discussion page . are these citations not exact / verifiability test proved falls / doubtful or not fit for wikipedia . even the law ministry reference has been underestimated ...regards:--@ the $un$hine . (talk) 23:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Consensus wanted.

Dear John, you were recently contributing to articles that are in the scope of the new project and to the project structure itself which is very very much appreciated! I thought you may want to check the proposal of merger and cast your vote in relation of the additional section to the main article. Thanks. --Wikidās-ॐ 14:41, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Scope, update and voting Whats new at Krishna's project Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Krishnaism - whats new and happening! Discussion on the scope of the project: Krishna-worship. First DYK of he project Radha Ramana 22nd May 2008 Pages under construction Radha Krishna, Bala Krishna, Krishnaism. Consensus is now reached on the proposal of merger of the new article Krishna Vasudeva into a separate section of Krishna here: Please note the results of the vote on the proposal of merging new article on early worship of Krishna Vasudeva to the main article dedicated to the Hindu deity Krishna. Krishna Vasudeva may have been worshiped in 4 century BC as a monotheistic deity. This article is to be incorporated in a separate section of Krishna article. Also, if you are ready to help with editing and assessment of the scope, please see the project page, and add your name to the list of participants. While the name of the project is WikiProject Krishnaism in common language many seems to prefer a wider term "Vaishnavism", which however appeared to relate to Vishnu. Krishnaism is more of an academic term. On the other hand even one of the first Indologists to use the term, Albrecht Weber was to consider that that the essence of Krishnaism, bhakti or the principle of "God is love", was pre-Christian. There were and are many traditions where Krishna is worshiped and His names revered. There was a discussion (and a heated one) on the scope of the project and the term here. Currently the scope is quite wide and aims at improving articles related to Radha-Krishna and associated traditions where they are worshiped: Manipuri Vaishnavas, Bhagavata, Gaudiya Vaishnava, Nimbarka sampradaya, Swaminarayana sampradaya, Vallabha sampradaya; If you see a need to widen or restrict the scope please voice your opinion - it is wanted! Just leave a few words here.

St Lawrence Church, Morden

My dear John, as this is simply another church building that was absconded by the Protestants during the reformation, my opinion is that we not concern ourselves with it. If the Anglicans wish to edit it and take out the advertisements, thats their business, not ours. Or should we worry ourselves about every article written about every pre-reformation European church stolen by the Lutherans, Calvinists, Anglicans, ad nauseum--Lyricmac (talk) 18:19, 26 May 2008 (UTC)?

I stand corrected. Thank you.--Lyricmac (talk) 01:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Mrs. P. Scores GA

I am happy to report that Pontius Pilate's wife received WP:GA status. Ecoleetage (talk) 19:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the banner project

You have inspired me to add as many references as I can from legtimate reference sources. I have an extensive Chatholic reference library, and the books are from all sides of the various issues. Thanks again for doing the banner project. Jason3777 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 02:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey thanks!!!

Long time!!! I missed you! It's been tough, but we did it... Thank you for the great help!!!! There's some little work to do, and it's done... Oh and I forgot something, one minute! Shahid • 15:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

		The Original Barnstar
		John Carter is hereby awarded this Original Barnstar, for his tireless efforts to make this encyclopedia better. He is undoubtedly one of the best editors on Misplaced Pages. His terrific work, courtesy, willingness to help and improve, and extremely civil behaviour should act as a reference guide for all aspiring Wikipedians. That's because of editors like you that this project is still going strongly. Have no words, all I can say is thank you. Thank you for being part of Misplaced Pages. Best regards, Shahid • 15:26, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

WIki halo

The Wiki-halo Its funny John but I was also about to give you this award for the multiple assets you give to this encyclopedia. Not only do I greatly appreciate your help and overlooking of the various disputes you've been involved in and somehow managing to keep a cool head, particularly with the Preity Zinta and related issues, but you have earned a great deal of respect from your fellow editors and advice that you give. Aside from this you have put in a huge amount of work "behind the scenes" towards improving the organization and system of the encyclopedia which people should be in debt of gratitude for. Cheers and thankyou for being an honorable wikipedian in this community. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 16:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Your're welcome. I came here thinking that you had gone unnoticed and unthanked but I know how much time you have also spent towards discussing it and supporting us as far back as October and you;ve been through it as much as any of us. Your're input into many issues even on a daily basis is always treasured. You must have devoted hours in total to participating in discussions to try to solve seemingly trivial issues which others think are a major problem and at the peak of debates with difficult situations (and other editors) you always show exemplary behaviour when most editors would have felt like strangling the other person down the cables!!! . You are always appreciated so a barnstar cannot really express what I think, and its probably reciprocated.

Now onto Bot matters the 100 trial will be done tonight. Perhaps you might want to contact Fritz and discuss more about the wikiproject tagging, Best wishes ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 16:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Well if it can be done automatically it would be silly if you would have to tag 1.8 million articles that are planned maually. I tried to negotiate some sort of Mongolian assessment system with Latebird but once again I feel like whenever somebody tries to make a point it like he is saying "How dare you interfere in our affairs". Kazakhstan and the rest of the central asian countries need assessing too but he seems to be under the impression that at least 100 editors need to be working on the project first before they are assessed. Anyway have a look at some of the latest images of Juba, Sudan, Dourtenga, Rumbek, Port Sudan, Malakal. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 17:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Hogenakkal Falls

many thanks for tht inclusion , i wanna read the changes uv made and will sure post my comments....many thanks for your presence....regards:--@ the $un$hine (talk) 17:40, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

How does one indeed unblock a blockhead?

You're a trooper, John! Actually only when I'd imposed what I thought was a due self-monitory punishment for saying what WP:CIVIL says one should never say, did I realize the technical entanglements that might arise from a self-block (is there a precedent?). I.e. I wondered whether indeed I had not usurped an exclusive prerogative (is that a pleonasm?) of administrators, and therefore ran the risk of further sanctions for brazen-faced assumption of authority I did not in fact have. Again, having done so, put myself on block, can I once more hijack admin functions, by arrogating to myself the right to unblock myself? The Greeks called it hybris and one might well expect a bureaucratic nemesis. I left some textual leeway to a proper administrator to lengthen my condign punishment, were it thought a snarky little attempt to game the system. When troubled by these things, I return to browse the classics, and I happened to read in Mencius the other day, the following text:-

'恥之於人大矣。為機變之巧者，無所用恥焉。不恥不若人，何若人有？(孟子:盡心上.7)',
which Legge translated:-
'The sense of shame is to a man of great importance. Those who form contrivances and versatile schemes distinguished for their artfulness, do not allow their sense of shame to come into action. When one differs from other men in not having this sense of shame, what will he have in common with them?'

Weber's classic analysis of dignity in Confucianism, as opposed to Puritan conscience, has made me suspect that my cultural embedding in the latter should not allow me here to use what is an outrider of our secularised Christian conscience, instrumental rationality, in order to find a pretext for wiggling out of the impasse. Once again, one takes a leaf out of another culture's code, and therefore I will forego any 'versatile contrivances' (echoes of the incipit of the Odyssey, however, in that phrasing!) and serve out the full term of my shame. Could I then, say on June 1, prevail upon your goliardic spirit to get me off the hook, i.e. save me from the hybris of a potential exercise of a non-existent right to unblock myself (not being an administrator)? Either that, or, perhaps you know some graduate from HP's Hogwarts who can wave the magic wand that will waive the virtual rules by which I have suspended myself? Best as always Nishidani (talk) 17:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

• ps.Actually, it is a little known fact but a Harry Potter was shot dead outside of Hebron in a skirmish in 1939, and thus is an appropriate mascot for I/P articles.Nishidani (talk) 17:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Then I've made an inadvertent gaffe is referring to HP. Request extension of suspension a further day. Let's settle on June 2 as the dies liberationis. Best Nishidani (talk) 20:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Bot

Check the new pages it works!!!!! I counted 13 articles in one minute. All it needs now is to be flagged and sealed for approval. A number of NPP's were alarmed by it ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 20:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Suddenly we went from 187 articles to 285 in a few minutes .... ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 20:03, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey I really mean that :)

Hey you're welcome! This sentence "should act as a reference guide" -- I heard that somewhere and I think it's the best way to describe your work. I wanted to ask you something. From what we see in the sources about Zinta's graduation, English Honours is her Bachelor's degree, and criminal psychology is the Master's (English - undergrad; Psy - postgrad).

Girolamo suggested to rewrite it like this: "she graduated college with an English honors degree, and then started a graduate program in criminal psychology." Does that sound good according to you?

And how do you think we should describe that in the lead? Because as of now it only mentions the crim psy degree. Shahid • 12:56, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

A little shiny object

		The Indian Cinema Barnstar
		Awarding of barnstars for the Priety Zinta article is not complete without you getting one. Please accept this little shiny object from me. It's a shame that I haven't met you earlier. Aditya 13:20, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Bot approved: dabbing help needed

Hi there. Fritz bot has been approved at Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/FritzpollBot for filling in a possible 1.8 million articles on settlements across the world. Now dabbing needs to be done for links which aren't sorted as the bot will bypass any blue links. and I need as many people as possible to help me with Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/Places to prepare for the bot. If you could tackle a page or two everything counts as it will be hard to do it alone. Thankyou ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 12:04, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Things are beginning to develop!. The catalogue and sorting can really be done fairly quickly and check out all those red links!!! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 17:26, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Just goes to show that if you want something enough you can make things happen. I had serious doubts that I would ever succeed in getting approved let alone a program written up to make it possible and organize it on this scale, but I stuck in there and kept on until the fantastic Mr. Fritz turned up! Do you realize that by the end of the entire run we will be responsible for well over half of wikipedias entire articles not including the 25,000 ones already created!! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 19:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I'm playing it safe for now as we are going to skip China, Russia and India till last which have some of the highest number of places. If we fully capitalize on the settlements in these three countries -takign into account the 638,000 articles in India and that russia is 19 times the size of India, once these are completed.... Due course I will be looking into a new NatureBot too in the same way, obviously Fritz won't be running that bot but in a few weeks once the geobot is well into its stride I'll be looking to expand the nature/ecology department of wikipedia ten fold and I'll be looking at Pollbot and any other from the nature project to begin a huge scale new bot run. I;m sure you;ve seen truckloads of red links on species on almost every articles on a plant or animal. So by the end of it, who knows? ... ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 19:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The National Geospatial Intelligence Agency is the site we are using, and using maplandia for guidance ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 21:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

John we're under attack from kiddies. Not only has a huge fracas been created at the village pump but they are now attempting to delete Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Amurn created by the bot and prevent the bot from going ahead and developing. Makes me lose my faith in humanity if people think continuing to ignore 95% of the world is a good thing. You don't have to support or oppose anything but I would appreciate anything you could say. Its a little discouraging to encounter this after weeks of fetting bot approval and kind of a kick in the teeth to haev an afd thrown at you then to show their disgust at the efforts to fill in the world on here ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 17:33, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Wise man not commenting yesterday. Perhaps you could propose a new wikiprojct at WP:COuncils to organize the bots work or as a task force of WP~:Cities or whatever. It would take a great dela direct pressure off Fritz and myself if it could be discussed as a group rationally ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 14:04, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely, the more people involved the better. The thing is we need a forum to discuss things rationally between editors who are considerably more knowledgebale about missing content and what needs doing which is away from the glaring headlights of the village pump. Unofrtunately many people who comment there know nothing about what is missing, or who barely ever edit or use english wikipedia. I;d like to maximize involvement but beteen constrictuve editors (e.g like geometry guy etc) who have good ideas in how to move forward in a way that maximizes the productivty of the bot. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 14:26, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Mm not going well is it. I wonder how many would see the benefits of it if it was added into the proposal that the bot could be used to clean up existing articles first by adding an infobox or details of something before each country is started. If we could prove that the bot could make existing articles consistent and improve existing content and generate new content it would likely gain more support. As it stands what can we do? Its pointless trying to comment on that page as people aren't reading the proposal properly. The bot has already been approved by key editors on here, it has the green light to generate content, there were 100 strong supports with the original proposal but 1/3 of the comments were against and now even more balanced with the latest offering. Can you see a solution in this situation?? I've tried to add articles manually but my movements are being watched by editors who are involved in the pump discussion and I tried adding some new articles earlier and they have been tagged by people who oppose to the idea. You can still email me if you don't want to reply here. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 16:10, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Well I've been trying to stay away from the trap. Yesterday I started 1972 Nicaragua earthquake which didn't have an article. That potetially could be expanded all the way. I have huge backlog of french commune infoboxes to add, but am certain that could be done automatically sooner or later so. I suppose I could always expand Cortina, Italy from Italian wiki. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 17:25, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Coracles of India

Hi John, I have merged the articles what were formally parisal and teppas into the above. Please have a look if you find time and may be think of a good DYK hook. The article has been indeed expanded more than 5 folds. Cheers Wiki San Roze 18:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Time Times (2008-06)

	Time Times
Issue four • June 2008 • About the Newsletter Written by FrankP and Template Designed by Diligent Terrier
News Recent Project News Article count at 1091! 979 are unassessed though, plenty of work for us to do. Project member count reaches 16 members! Keep inviting all your WikiFriends. Award offered—Since 2008-01-05, Sharkface217 has offered a Barnstar to the editor who can expand the article Timeline. It certainly needs it, now that it has been disambiguated from Chronology: Go to the Timeline listing on the Awards page to find out Sharkface's minimum requirements! From the Time Portal History of timekeeping devices reaches A-Class Status—On May 22 the history of time keeping article was promoted by User:Zginder to A-Class. This is our only article to reach this prestigious status. This was only possible with the dedication of the Tzatziki Squad. They are continuing to work on the article to reach Feature Article status. Merkhet was a DYK—The article appeared on the Main Page on April 28. With this text: "... that merkhets were Ancient Egyptian timekeeping devices that tracked the movement of certain stars over the meridian in order to ascertain the time during the night, when sundials could not function?" This also was only possible thanks to the Tzatziki Squad. Recent Time News The June Solstice takes place on 2008-06-20T23:59.
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Take a look...

...at the new proposal on the bot's discussion page. Your suggestions have essentially, if I understood them correctly, been incorporated Fritzpoll (talk) 14:26, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVII (May 2008)

The May 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 02:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

St. Mary's Church, Chepstow

Thanks for the infobox! Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:41, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Pastordavid/Theology workgroup

John, I thought that I would move this into project space to go ahead and flesh it out some more, if you have no objections. Pastordavid (talk) 17:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

online. Pastordavid (talk) 20:04, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

What?

What is this? Shahid • 18:35, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Mmm. Seems he remained more calm and civil than most editors on here would have would have following that nonsense. Looks like my crap toleration barnstar was 110% justified. People like that aren't worth the time ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 18:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I am an admin who is eligible for recall. I initially chose that way to determine if my conduct qualified for such recall. However, there were three parties, all of whose behavior I have at times more than questioned, who decided to use it as an attempt to railroad me into being desysopped. I have seen that other admins open to recall have requested the RfC route for desysopping, and, considering none of the complainers have anything of substance or recentness to complain about, I recently opted to use that means to determine if I qualify for recall. I also note that all three of the complainers have quited down, in fact been almost invisible, recently, which, in all honesty, isn't something I particularly object to. John Carter (talk) 18:52, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Understand fully. Amazing isn't it, Tinkinswood currently on the front page is roughly about 5 miles from my house. I'v genuinely never heard of it in my life!! I could tell you a huge amount about other ancient spots or parks in the Vale of Glamorgan but I can't think why I've never heard of that! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 19:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Diocese vs RC Diocese

John, if there were a consensus, I would be glad to help in the re-direction the articles from 'Roman Catholic Diocese of ...' to 'Diocese of ...'. However, there would need to be something in the title that distinguished a Catholic diocese from an Anglican or Episcopal diocese. If Hammer wants to redirect, may I suggest 'Catholic Diocese of ...'? This might prevent non-Catholics from thinking that all Catholics are RCs. Give me a ring, please.--Lyricmac (talk) 01:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I know; as I am also an RC('though I normally ID myself as a Latin-rite Catholic, for claritys sake), It gets a bit tiresome trying to explain the 20+ rites in the Eastern Church that are also 'Catholic'. I can understand that non-RCs get a little nicked on this subject(my son-in-law is a Maronite).

However, at the same time, if the articles are entiitled 'Roman Catholic Diocese of ...', then there can be no confusion about the fact that we are discussing a Latin-rite diocese. Question-how many of the Eastern rites us the term 'diocese', and how many call their geographical divisions 'eparchies', or some such? I am willing to bet that the term 'Roman Catholic Diocese' is the most descriptive term that could be used in this case-that the re-direction by Malleus may be an exercise in futility, after all.--Lyricmac (talk) 01:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

List of missing places: American Samoa

Hey there. I wanted to say good job about making that list. It appears that it was already fixed up by you before I even went about to look at it! I didn't realize that it's disambiguation was already done so I checked a few of the blue links myself and of course all were fine/fixed. Only after did I look at the history to see you already did all the disambiguation editing :). There was one thing left out though and I am not too sure what to do with it. I have left it at the top of the page for you to look at if you want (or anyone else for that matter) and added that the page was "done" with the dabbing in the American Samoa list. Kind regards :).Calaka (talk) 06:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I had a look at the wikiproject for American Samoa and I say go right ahead and merge it into WP:Polynesia. Also make sure to redirect the Wp:american samoa talk page template into the wp:polynesia talk page template. Any thoughts on doing the same thing with WP:Samoa or is that a bit more active? Cheers!Calaka (talk) 12:46, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I've requested a new locator map for American Samoa, thanks for dabbing Anguilla -you sure they are called ... Village??? I'm going to see if I can get a few guides to some of the African countires from ebay, the Bradt guides are recommended by Michael Palin as more detailed than general travel guides and a lot more information on local cultures and places. I chaven't got a lot of money to spend for I;m watching two books one on Ghana and one on Benin each around 450 pages long which I'm sure would help. If I had a library I could get hold of some books on African history too or some central buraeau details on some of these countries. I have a detailed book on Barbados which I could develop a few articles with -the key is research isn't it. Imagine the sum of what is lying in all books from around the planet ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 13:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Potential members of the new project

See Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals)/FritzpollBot#Interested editors in joining the new WikiProject. If we are to create a new project or taskforce of WP:Cities then we need some idea of membership and willingness of editors to make a contrubtion towards any part of the running of the bot in any department. Follwing this, it can be pasted directly to the WP:COuncil for proposing new projects and set up in a short space of time ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 14:25, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Block the vandal will you please? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ 15:37, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Re:Huge orphaned category; needs WikiProject Islam's attention

Hi John, I saw this on your talk page. Striver made a lot of works for two years here. Unfortunately he couldn't comply himself with the regulations of our society and others dealt with him too bad. However I think we can use them on the basis of of Style (dates and numbers).

In addition, I've recently seen this. Apparently you want to add Sufi task force . Most of the task forces are made by Stiver and aren't active now. Thus I don't think making a new task force would be helpful. --Seyyed(t-c) 15:10, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

In Islam we don't have something like church. Islamic schools, sects and branches have more similarity than Christian churches. Thus as you can see in the main page of the wikiproject, Islam is a featured article while most of the articles which relate to different branches are at the stub status. If you want to make Suffism task force, I suggest asking the wikipedians who have participated in it. And "Islamic theology or Islamic texts task force" has overlap with Shia, Sunni and Muslim scholars task forces.--Seyyed(t-c) 19:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Good idea. I can help you with it.--Seyyed(t-c) 01:34, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Indian coracles

On 5 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Indian coracles, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 19:56, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter

I made a few changes with the current WikiProject Christianity Newsletter. Hope you dont mind.. Please do make any corrections needed if any. After that I will place a make a BOT request for the delivery to our member talk pages -- TinuCherian - 10:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Embassy of Uzbekistan in Washington, D.C.

I noticed you're the only member of the Uzbekistan project. Did you still want me to tag the article with your project or just leave the Central Asia project tag? APK 21:18, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

William Melmoth and WP:AN/I

Hi John, I hope you don't mind if I suggest that you withdraw (and perhaps blank) the ANI thread about this article and your interaction with Geogre. Honestly, the dispute centers around the letter of an assessment. The tenor of the interaction on that page suggests that you have some history with Geogre - but in this particular case, I think he is generally right. It isn't absolutely necessary that the article be assessed as B, or include other sources if only one is available. I think that you should avoid labeling edits by longstanding contributors (regardless of the history) as vandalism, and try to approach assessments such as this in the future as not worth long contentious arguments and disputes that make it to AN/I. Thanks, and hopefully everyone can put this behind them with no hard feelings. Avruch * 22:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Just read your latest response at AN/I, and I do understand that the assessments can be sometimes useful. Its good to know that you were unaware of Geogre's background, although that knocks out my theory that the tenor of the talkpage was related to some past issue. I think, based on my reading there, that perhaps you misinterpreted his comments or found something particularly objectionable in his writing style. I see no reason for it to have become as hostile as it did, truly. I think that everyone involved would be better served moving on from that article to other work - surely the assessment of one article is unimportant in the scheme of things. Avruch * 22:42, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

In appreciation

		The Unitarian Universalist Barnstar
		In appreciation of your efforts to enhance the depth and scope of Misplaced Pages content relating to religion. Ecoleetage (talk) 12:00, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for helping to spread the word! Ecoleetage (talk) 12:00, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

6/9 DYK

On 9 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Archdiocese of the Old Catholic Church of America, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Bedford 01:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter

The Christianity WikiProject Newsletter

Archives  |  Tip Line  |  Editors The Christianity WikiProject Newsletter Issue VI - June 2008 Project news We now have 51 featured articles and 98 good articles, with the recent promotions of Hubert Walter to FA class, and Oswald of Worcester, Papal election, 1292-1294, Pontius Pilate's wife, and Towson United Methodist Church to GA level. Thanks to all those who worked on these articles! Member news The project currently has 233 members, 15 joined & 1 leavers since the start of May 2008. Other news Roman Catholic Church is currently a featured article candidate. Bath Abbey has been nominated for GA status. Related projects news New Projects and/or work groups have been proposed for Christian theology and Christian denomations. Christianity related news Barack Obama leaves Trinity United Church Court ruling on FLDS case From the Members Welcome to the Sixth issue of the WikiProject Christianity newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do. Luckily, you all won't have to see my comments very often, as very little I have to say is really that important. But I would like to take the opportunity to say that I hope everyone finds the new General Forum page useful for discussing ideas relevant to Christianity in general, and feels free to make any additional comments regarding general Christianity there. Also, if any of you feel that you want to place a comment here in the future, please let us know what you want included. We would encourage all members to get more involved and if you are wondering what with, please ask. Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do. John Carter (talk), Lead Coordinator Newsletter challenge We are initiating a new feature here. Every month, we will list one misisng article. The first person to start the article will be mentioned by name in the next newsletter, as well as any others should they help get included in the Main Page DYK's section. This month's article is Church of Daniel's Band. To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. This newsletter is automatically delivered by TinucherianBot (talk) 08:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC) Kalki on the fringe theory notice board I just recently learned of this discussion. I was never alerted to the fact that I was being maligned without a chance to defend my edits. I have posted a few comments there. Thank you for defending me in my stead. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 18:47, 9 June 2008 (UTC) Warning Do not revert official warnings. That can be a blocking offense. I use many words when I warn people, but it was an official warning to cease disruption. You may answer, delete, but not revert. Reverting edits is for vandalism. Please behave according to the WP:TALK that you frequently cite. Geogre (talk) 20:10, 9 June 2008 (UTC) In all honesty, sir, given your own recent behavior, I can honestly say that I am surprised that you are even aware of that guideline. The message was seen and acknowledged, and can be found in the history. John Carter (talk) 20:12, 9 June 2008 (UTC)