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MKR (programming language)

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• Articles for deletion/MKR (programming language) (2nd nomination)

MKR (programming language) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

I can't find any non-trivial references to this software other than those created by the editor of the article. Killerofcruft (talk) 11:10, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Keep shows clear notability. Al Tally 12:16, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Can you explain how it has notability - I cannot find anything but trival mentions in lists and other such material. What reliable sources have commented on this? in what context. Please be specific in your response - naming the publications. --Killerofcruft (talk) 12:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Keep Article shows a lot of potential. - Amog | 13:31, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

In what sense? potential for what? considering there are no reliable sources on the matter. Can you provide reliable sources? What policy based reason can you give? --Killerofcruft (talk) 13:33, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Here are a couple of references to the article I found:

• A law resource site
• Information on the extension *.MKR
• It has over Nine thousand downloads
• On a list of downloadable programming languages

I'll do a more thorough earch on this later. - Amog | 14:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Those are all directory listing - none of which are considered reliable sources for the purposes of establishing notability. If this programming language is notable - where is the real world usage, where are the mentions in the peer reviewed journals, where the mentions in books by notable writers etc? Where is well.. anything of that nature? directory listings are not going to cut it. --Killerofcruft (talk) 14:10, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Whoa.. if sources are in question, how did this get through the first AFD? I would suspect, having been around for 10 years and being in a version 7, that this language has gotten attention from more than just the author. But our suspicions aren't enough- sources are required. I see sources, but how many of them mention this language? I hope this can be kept, but it's unclear to me whether the sources we have now are enough. Friday (talk) 13:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

currently, the strongest source is some lecture notes. If you look at the rest, they are about elements of the field that the design draws upon not the language itself. --Killerofcruft (talk) 13:42, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Weak delete - the sources aren't impressing me. Sceptre 13:40, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Delete In dire need of some reliable sources. None so far forthcoming. ukexpat (talk) 14:18, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Keep Article already survived AfD just four days ago. Consensus doesn't change that quickly. TotientDragooned (talk) 14:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Read the AFD - it was done on the basis of COI not sourcing. My argument here is not the one presented there - as I was uninvolved. --Killerofcruft (talk) 14:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• I'm willing to give this a go for now, but if I look at it in a few months time and it is still no clearer I'll probably be in favor of deletion. The references are obliquely described and seem obscure. Reading between the lines, it seems to me that it boils down to "somebody has mentioned this language in a lecture on the vizualization of computational processes." Moreover the examples as the article stands don't suggest anything revolutionary. There's a bit of formal logic there, perhaps a bit of reflection, and with an imperative rather than declarative flavor. But on the face of it, nothing you couldn't hack up in a few minutes using lisp. That isn't to say that the language may not at some point attract broader attention. However that it apparently hasn't done so in eleven years is strongly suggestive. --Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 14:56, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
• Keep Tend to agree with Anticipation on this one. Agree that it needs some RS, but I'm not sure that any effort to dig any up has actually been undergone by third parties. If it was still in its present state in 3 months I'd probably vote delete. (If consensus develops around Arthur's userfy below, I'd support that, too.) Orderinchaos 15:09, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
• Delete/Userfy. There are no sources other than the developers' mailing list. All other sources appear to refer to the field, rather than the specific "language". Suggest that the developer restore than article if it gets some discussion in WP:RS. As for the previous AfD, it found that COI is not a reason to delete. Absence of sources is, and the matter was not brought up then. In favor of deletion, rather than waiting for sourcing, as a number of redirects have been created by the developer, which would probably be worthy of deletion even if the article were kept. WP:COI, although not a reason to delete, is a reason to delete something more quickly than if a neutral party though it relevent in the absence of sourcing. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:35, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
• Keep as per result of previous AfD, on principle, because 4 days is much to soon for a second nomination, and the argument that this nomination is on a different "basis" from the first one is simply wiki-lawyering. Any disagreement with the outcome of the first nomination should have been addressed through the deletion review process, not by an immediate re-nomination. This looks like a vendetta to me. Gandalf61 (talk) 16:28, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Read the other comments. Previous AFD was flawed, as it ignored notability. Baseball Bugs 17:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Why would I have a vendetta against a) an article I never edited before today and b) an AFD I was never involved in. I'd ask you to withdraw those bad faith remarks or I'll ask for action. --Killerofcruft (talk) 16:43, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Delete There really are no reliable sources for this. Almost everything is material self-published by the creator of the article. It fails WP:V, WP:NOTE, and is mostly WP:OR. The author reached hard for sources, even at one point citing a mailing list on which it was mentioned a few times; McCulloch was trying to argue that it had some benefit to the XML/RDF community, and got a few responses. (Although the article doesn't link to its sources, you can, in fact, find most of them on the web.) The language got short entries on long, comprehensive lists of AI tools. I've been looking for more sources; I tried Google and Google Scholar, and the best I could find was a paper by McCulloch (editor who created the article) rejected by a regional AI conference in Florida. It's not even getting blog references. This isn't new work; it's been around for years. As for the lecture notes cited, they're online. The reference to mKE is in a lecture about debugging tools for the Unicon language, and mKE is "the Largest Publically Available Unicon Program (50K lines)", and it's mentioned as something to practice debugging upon. The entire reference is three lines. That's it. --John Nagle (talk) 16:49, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
• Userfy for now. The editor is new to this, and is acting in good faith, so just nuking it is a bit harsh. Inclined to agree that it's not articlespace material at this point though. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 17:04, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
• Delete or Userfy. No demonstrated notability. Baseball Bugs 17:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

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