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Revision as of 12:55, 17 August 2008

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WikiProject Israel

Hi Nudve. I noticed that you have contributed several articles on Isralei politicians. Would you be interested in joining WikiProject Israel? If you contribute any more articles, you can announce them on the new articles page. Regards, пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I have to say, you are doing great work! пﮟოьεԻ 57 16:58, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Eliyahu Lankin

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Eliyahu Lankin, and it appears to be a substantial copy of http://www.etzel.org.il/english/people/lankin.htm. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 17:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Knesset members

Excellent work as always with the MKs. However, you might want to delete the drafts in your userspace, as they are showing up in Category:Former Members of the Knesset (it took me a while to work out why the number of articles had gone up so much!). If you want to delete them, add {{db-author}} to them, and they'll be speedily deleted. If you don't want to delete them, please could you decategorise them? Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll do that. -- Nudve (talk) 11:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Cool, I've deleted them all. пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:34, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Errr, not sure you meant to do this! I've declined it :) пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Oops...guess I forgot the "/". Good thing you noticed -- Nudve (talk) 11:51, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Verbatim use of website text

Greetings. Kudos on your work on new Israel articles. That's where I saw Zalman Aran. The article text contains various sections of text taken verbatim, exactly or too closely, from a website (like this one). We aren't allowed to write article by copying text from the web. It's a copyright violation. Please correct that article ASAP and please go back and correct any other articles that have involved the same kid of verbatim use of non-Misplaced Pages texts. Otherwise, the articles need to be deleted. Thanks very much, HG | Talk 17:50, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Ben-Zion Dinur

On 24 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ben-Zion Dinur, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 09:53, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Copyright problem: Ralph Klein (coach)

Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Ralph Klein (coach), but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material. This article appears to be a copy from http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1145961266365&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter, and therefore a copyright violation. The copyrighted text has been or will soon be deleted.

If you believe that the article is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) then you should do one of the following:

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Speedy deletion of Ralph Klein (coach)

A tag has been placed on Ralph Klein (coach) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a blatant copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words.

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If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Mister Senseless™ (Speak - Contributions) 18:51, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Is there any reason why you omitted certain categories from The newly revised article?--ArnoldPettybone (talk) 21:24, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I copied them from a cached version of the page, which may not have been up to date. Feel free to add any category. -- Nudve (talk) 04:50, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 26 March, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Irgun and Lehi internment in Africa, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Royalbroil 04:19, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

DYKs

Hi there. I moved your list of DYKs from article space to your user space at User:Nudve/DYKs. I assume that's where you meant to put them. Best, Iain99 19:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks :) -- Nudve (talk) 19:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Tel Aviv's population

Please do not change the figures: the city has 390,400 official residents within its borders.

Your opinon on this

Greetings, there is a discussion about project tagging on the WP:Palestine page here. --Al Ameer son (talk) 19:58, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Tel Aviv

• Just to let you know, there is a peer review for Tel Aviv at Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Tel Aviv/archive3, thanks. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 09:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the het-het :) Hey, I got a het-het in tironut for explaining about the Irgun, and being the chong that I was, I was really pround of myself, not knowing that the sergeant probably wiped his ass with the paper he wrote the het-het on. Oh well, I'm finishing service soon anyway.

About the railway articles, I wish I had more time to work on them, because I have quite a few materials and just don't have time to go over them yet. My biggest issue now is sources on recent events, which my materials don't cover, but should be abundant on the internet - I just didn't have time to search. My articles are not very well-source and I think that's very unfortunate.

Cheers, Ynhockey 16:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

NPOV

For your review, WP:NPOV. Please don't edit articles in which you have a personal stake. -WikiSkeptic (talk) 19:02, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Revisionist Zionism

Thank you for the "good faith" acknowledgment. Please participate consider participating in the discussion. I would like to know your position regarding the issues I've raised. --Ludvikus (talk) 14:25, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Gadsar Nahal

While I am pretty far away from the Nahal in the army to honestly have no idea, it seems that all possible sources, including the unit itself, say that it's a company (Pluga), as you said yourself. Check the Hebrew wiki for example, and the unit's website. -- Ynhockey 19:21, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 12 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Eli Amir, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Gatoclass (talk) 06:18, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 14 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Battle of the Beaufort (1982), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Gatoclass (talk) 13:25, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Hanna Maron

On 16 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Hanna Maron, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 12:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Miriam Ben-Porat

On 2 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Miriam Ben-Porat, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 17:13, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Moses Mendelssohn

Thanks for catching my stupid revert - I must be working too long into the night. I actually thought I was REMOVING 'Hallo Welt', not adding it back in. Sigh. A Sniper (talk) 08:36, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Villages in Israel

Cheers - I'll try to remember to tag them all in future. Good work on the MKs by the way! пﮟოьεԻ 57 14:13, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Ideally at some point, but don't let that stop you! I'm on a bit of a roll with the villages thing at the moment. пﮟოьεԻ 57 17:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

PS, when you're adding citations to Mapa's concise gazetteer of Israel, could you avoid writing "Yuval Elʻazari", and instead put "Yuval Elazari"; I don't know how it shows up on your computer, but whatever "ʻ" is, it only shows up as a box on mine (plus I believe Elazari is the common English transliteration of the name). Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Society Barnstar
		For your recent article The dirty trick (Israel) - one of the best-referenced and most interesting additions I've ever seen. пﮟოьεԻ 57 13:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I've linked in from Israeli legislative election, 1988, but feel free to do the rest. I have tonnes of (real) work to do this afternoon! пﮟოьεԻ 57 13:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 19 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article The dirty trick (Israel), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Gatoclass (talk) 17:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

beit jala raid

Thank you, Nudve, for restoring my faith in human intelligence. I have have spent untold hours editing material to improve Misplaced Pages as a readable and truthful source, but this article is unfixable because it is there to stir up hatred and plant false conclusions in the minds of readers. See Tantura, Ilan Pappe, Mount Scopus and Bayt Jibrin, for some background.--Gilabrand (talk) 05:36, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Haim Yosef Zadok

On 23 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Haim Yosef Zadok, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 18:31, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Kfar Haro?

You're right - Haaretz, the Jerusalem Post and Ynetnews all use Kfar Haroeh. I'll change it. Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:12, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not a smear campaign

What abt quotes of Palestinian personalities?

Working Man's Barnstar

some advice on "Aliyah to Israel and settlement" table

Hi Nudve, how are you?

I'd like to take your advice on the "Aliyah to Israel and settlement" table,

The creator of this table, has translated this table from the Hebrew wikipedia (I've seen it on one of the talk pages, if I'm not mistaken on the table's talk page), yet the table is not complete - it lacks of the "pre-Zionist" movement list of Aliya.

so, there fore I would like to change the table, in order to create future links to articles that I would like to translate, and the changes in the table, that I would like to make is as follows:

(if you click on the English article of Pre-Zionist Aliyah, then link to its Hebrew article, you will be able to see the Hebrew table that I've taken it from):

yet, once I make those changes, I would be deleting, from the table's list, the link to the Yishuv haYashan (the old Yishuv) English article, that in the English Misplaced Pages's Article consist of many of the contents of the articles I want to add to the list, yet, the content of the English "old Yishuv", does not deal with the issues of the "old yishuv", but rather focuses on the articles I would like to add to the table's list.

so, before making those changes in the table, you need to change the content of the English article of "old Yishuv", in a way that will deal with the issues that concern the "old Yishuv" (Hence, I would like to translate it from the Hebrew wikipedia), and leave the current content of the English article of "Old Yishuv" to be dealt with the articles that I will add in the table (as the changes I am offering to the table above), and I will translate them as well.

What do you think?

--Shevashalosh (talk) 21:00, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you again Nudve. I'll post the message there, and if you wish to answer me as well, post your answer either here or on one of the projects.

--Shevashalosh (talk) 06:21, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Lehi (group)

Can you help on the article of Lehi (group)?

Since I'm pretty new here, you are probably more familiar with the protocols the are needed

The neutrality of the article is in dispute, I've placed a tag of it, but they removed it.

Here are some examples:

First:"Although the name of the group became "Lehi" only after the death of its founder, Avraham Stern, this article follows the common practice of referring to it by that name throughout its history."

(The whole sentence is not true, they called themselves Lehi, some brits were name calling them so (not Lehi themselves). I only heard of what the Brits name called them once before. 3 lines, dedicated to explaining why the article will use this in stead of a Lehi..!?

second, the whole portion of contacting the Nazis is of perplex to me:

They contacted the Nazis since they thought they could play against the Brits, they figured the Nazis didn't want Jews in Europe (some what unreasonable idea to me, yet they have done so) - and not for the sake of a "Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis" (never heard of this).

Third, "German plans such as the Madagascar Plan eventually failed and ultimately led the Nazis to initiate the Holocaust, the "Final Solution to the Jewish Question" in 1942,"

Not true. They wanted to murder Jews anyway.

What? Is this the reason for murdering 6 million Jews?

There is no reason to murder innocent 6 million Jews, not to speak of evacuating them from Europe nor if the plan is failed.

And of course, the whole article is full of name calling "terror" instead of "Lehi group" etc, as well as the category added (to it.

There is much more to it, those are just examples.

--Shevashalosh (talk) 08:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Kokhav Michael

You're right - I'll move it. пﮟოьεԻ 57 15:43, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Wooden Leg

See here: Template:Operational plan. "For operations that resulted in combat, it should be used as an auxiliary template to the military conflict infobox" --TheFEARgod (Ч) 18:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I tend to agree now with your point; put the operation box back, but put more info into it. A map of the location in Tunisia would be OK also. Sorry for the incovenience --TheFEARgod (Ч) 12:08, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

1. hmm a source says 12 miles south of the capital, on the coast. A map with the arrows coming from Israel would be good. A map of just the mediterranean would also be fine.
2. I've added the fatalities section to the box.
3. Operation Orchard?--TheFEARgod (Ч) 12:25, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

no, I was thinking Op. Orchard should have that infobox. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 12:45, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Template:Operational plan

Actually, {{Infobox Military Conflict}} has a number of fields for casualties (and has had them for years). Maybe you were looking at only a partial syntax? Kirill 12:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Avraham Poraz

Yishar Ko'ah for creating the article! Another fellow military policeman who has an article, awesome. Cheers, Ynhockey 16:07, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Haganah Commander

Hi Nudve,
I answered your question on the talk page.
Ceedjee (talk) 08:16, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how to translitterate from he to en.

Should not we chose between : Yigael or Yigal (currently there is Yigael Yadin and Yigal Allon) ?

Ceedjee (talk) 10:24, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer.

But I think you didn't understand my question :

Why is it :

• Yigael for Yadin

and

• Yigal for Allon.

We should chose only 1 spelling (whatever it is...).

Ceedjee (talk) 12:57, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

NB: by the way, could you have a look at 1952 Beit Jala raid and put this in your watch list... Because user:Gilabrand and I are a little bit exhausted by Ashley... Txh in advance !

About Yadin: These are two different names, although they come from the same root. Yigal literally mean "Will redeem" while Yigael mean "Will be redeemed". Yigal is a common Hebrew name, while Yigael is exceptional.
About the Beit Jala raid: I had a bad feeling about that article from the first moment I laid eyes on it. I don't know what can be done about it. -- Nudve (talk) 13:14, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the information ! Ceedjee (talk) 14:49, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Much appreciated - creating templates like this means a lot more is needed! :) пﮟოьεԻ 57 23:27, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Timorim

Hi Nudve! Please look at my edits in your article Timorim. The main factual change is that Timorim is moshav shitufi, not moshav. If you have any objections to other changes, let's discuss.

Now comes the main tricky issue: in Hebrew the name of this moshav shitufi is spelled with mem degusha (see, e.g., the amudanan topo map I have added to external links or Even-Shoshan Hebrew dictionary for the root "timmur"). So basically we should write "Timmorim", not "Timorim". In fact, the road signs in Israel use the spelling "Timmorim", with double m. So what do you say? Shall we go to the trouble of changing everywhere "Timorim" to "Timmorim"? This will involve moving the latest version of Timorim to Timmorim and cleaning up after that. --Zlerman (talk) 12:15, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

(1) About the financial figures, there's no link so I'll just assume they're correct. (2) It's not "my" article and I'm not the one who created it. (3) It is indeed a moshav shitufi, I just wasn't aware of the existence of that article. (4) I believe that according to WP:HE, Dagesh is ignored. I speak Hebrew, BTW. -- Nudve (talk) 12:24, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

• So I understand that you don't think it is necessary or desirable to change "Timorim" to "Timmorim". Correct? Still, please Google for "Timorim" and "Timmorim" (if you have not done this already) and tell me your final decision. I am really neutral, except for those road signs, you know... If you are interested, I can e-mail you a beautiful photo of a road sign that say "Timmorim". But, again, I am perfectly happy with "Timorim". Just debating the point.

On the subject of financial figures, we all have to assume something somewhere. Not all information is linkable. I have given a reference to printed information, I have seen this information, what else can I do?

If you prefer, you can send me e-mails in Hebrew (my e-mail address is on my talk page). Best regards, --Zlerman (talk) 12:58, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

No it's OK, I believe you :) I don't have a special preference on the naming issue, either. It's just the I know that people have put considerable into those naming conventions and would like to stick to them. You may want to discuss it with User:Number 57, who creates many articles on Israeli villages, or User:Ynhockey, who I think worked on WP:HE. Or you could post a message on the WP:ISRAEL talk page. -- Nudve (talk) 13:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Mizra

Yes, I think the non-Kosher fact is worth a DYK submission. Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 57 20:10, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Mizra

On 18 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mizra, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 20:16, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Mizra DYK

DYK (July 18) contains the following statement: "...that for many years, kibbutz Mizra's store was the only place in Israel that sold non-kosher meat?" (a) This is NOT what the article on Mizra says (the article says "provider of pork meat" and does not mention the store in this context); (b) the statement is TOTALLY fallacious and misleading: dozens of stores all over Israel (including Haifa, Jerusalem, Nazareth, and many other places) sold pork long before the Mizra store existed; (c) the alleged primacy of Mizra needs to be checked: kibbutz Lahav in the northern Negev also has a large pig farm and processing facility for pork. --Zlerman (talk) 02:20, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

• I have no problem with the article. It is the wording of the DYK that I object to: it is simply incorrect to write that the kibbutz Mizra's store was the only place in Israel that sold non-kosher meat (even in the past tense and even if HaAretz says so). The article Mizra uses the word provider, which could refer to the meat factory as a producer and supplier of non-kosher meat products to other stores across the country -- not necessarily the only seller to the consumer, as the DYK implies. It would be nice if the DYK could be reworded. Cheers, --Zlerman (talk) 04:41, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Provisional nature of the UN Partition Plan 1947

The article reads as if the plan had been finalized, when in fact it never had a final form. I had explained this on the relevant discussion page in a 10 July 2008 note. It read:

On 25 November 1947 an amendment to the plan was passed that allowed the boundaries to be adjusted on the spot in Palestine by the Border Commission. The amendment was introduced by the delegation from the Netherlands.

The borders in the GA-181 plan cut-off 54 Arab villages from their farm land. The discussion before the vote indicated that inclusion of those villages in the Jewish state COULD have added as many as 108,000 more Arabs to the population .'

Here is an extract from the debate:

Mr. SASSEH (Netherlands) stated that his delegation, while proposing two amendments to the draft resolution of Sub-Committee I, completely reserved its ultimate position as to the reports of both Sub-Committees. Submitting amendments to the report of Sub-Committee I did not mean that his delegation had no appreciation of the quality of the work done by Sub-Committee II.

In connection with the amendment of his delegation on boundaries, Mr. Sassen pointed out that, if a United Nations Commission went to Palestine, it would be bound by precise instructions concerning boundaries, except on a few minor points such as the boundaries between Jaffa and Tel-Aviv. That was unwise, all the more as the proposed frontier divided a great number of villages.

A state must be composed of a number of units, the smallest of which were villages. Village boundaries had therefore a basic significance for state frontiers. Special circumstances had to be taken into consideration and village boundaries were not immutable, but two things should be noted: firstly, special circumstances could be better taken into account on the spot than in New York, end secondly, the number of fifty-four village divisions seemed to indicate that Sub-Committee I did not apply as much as possible the principle that a state had to be composed of a number of local units.

The amendment purposely left unspecified which reasons, geographical or otherwise might make the division of villages as necessity. But in any case the wishes of the local population had to be taken into consideration.

In this respect the report of the Woodhead Commission seemed to indicate the advisability of local arrangements. These could be made in the of the Sub-Committee's conclusions, and of the advisability to avoid village divisions as much as possible.

Sir ZAFRULLAH KHAN (Pakistan) pointed out that fifty-four villages were involved, that is to say some 108,000 inhabitants, who would be counted the Arab side, although their lands were within the Jewish State. That was an undesirable solution. Either the lands should go with them to the Arab State, or they should go with the lands into the Jewish State so that they could elect a majority of the constituent assembly in the Jewish State.

Mr. JOHNSON,(United States) was in favour of the amendment of the delegation of the Netherlands. Its wording, while sufficiently broad to give the proper discretion to the boundary commission, provided it with guiding principles which should be followed.

In connection with the words "unless pressing.reasons make that necessary" Mr. Johnson said that these would require that good reasons should be shown.

The CHAIRMAN declared that, as there,was no objection, the two amendments of the delegation of Netherlands relating to boundaries as set forth in item 1 in document A/AC.l4/36 were adopted.

harlan (talk) 19:11, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Jerusalem

First, I would just like to thank you for 'voting' for a basic chronogical description of the 1967 events, so we can come to a compromise. I'm not sure if you are aware, but I preferred "1967 War" (-till present) over "1967 War, unification and annexation of East Jerusalem", as headings should direct wiki visitors to events, not tell them how to interpret the content.

On a different note, I'd like to point out that an earlier edit you made could very very easily be interpreted as vandalism. Your edit summary says: deleted redundant ref. However, the ref had not been cited elsewhere and was particularly needed at that spot, to back up the specific World Bank stats which state that violations are 41/2 times higher in west jerus while 4 times more prosecuted in east jerus.Clearly, this needed a ref, and the fact would later have been deleted for lack of a citation. LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 06:57, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

1967 War-present sounds fine to me. About the "vandalism" issue, the ref was redundant because the same one appears at the end of the paragraph. No need to cite the same ref after every sentence of the World Bank report. -- Nudve (talk) 07:35, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:the citation deletion, It's important to keep every disputable fact well-cited; to remove citations clearly weakens the ability of such facts to withstand future deletion. This is what made it look like vandalism, but I understand your perspective. I guess if you were to choose (which as said before, I don;t think one should) it would have been better to leave the citation after the WB data itself since that data is specific to the World Bank, whereas the idea that the Wall has resulted in expropriation of Palestinian land is not exclusive to the WB (I could have put in a thousand other sources). Re: the heading, glad you feel that way. I don;t enjoy battling things out for 'neutral' language, but I believe in it enough that I seem to have set my thesis back at least two months. Do you know of a Wikipedians Anonymous group?LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 07:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

What I meant was that it was redundant at the time of my edit. It's not redundant now that the Rapaport ref has been inserted in between. Also...Aren't we all anonymous? -- Nudve (talk) 07:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, did you get my American reference to support groups for addicts such as 'AA', Alcoholics Anonymous, NA "Narcotics Anonymous" and OA "Overeaters Anonymous"? So some of us might need a WA, Wikipedians Anonymous.LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 08:00, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I got that. My point was that people in the support group (for m:Wikistress, I presumed) would be the same people who caused you that stress to begin with. -- Nudve (talk) 08:07, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Aha, it was me who missed your reference! LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 21:21, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Arad, Israel edits

Hi Nudve! Not sure why you removed the street map from Arad, Israel. I can see the street names just fine. -- Ynhockey 14:01, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I think the street map is almost unique to this article across Misplaced Pages and makes this article stand out. I'm sure there will be at least some readers interested in this map, especially because of its free license. I'll upload an SVG version in a year or two when all major browsers have no problems with SVG.

Not really sure about the galleries, but I was hesitant to add a Commons category link, because Commons categories are a mess and not well-organized. Perhaps an Arad gallery page with proper sections needs to be created on Commons and we can link to that. Even so, at least a third of the pictures (the more 'notable' ones, e.g. stone monument, municipality building, central synagogue) should remain in the article. -- Ynhockey 14:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Operation Defensive Shield

Thank you for your input regarding policy. I've left you a comment there about a concern I have.
Cheers, Jaakobou 13:01, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Left you another comment there. Jaakobou 12:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Torture

In that article you wrote "The one exception worldwide was the case of Israel". Are you sure Israel is the only democratic country ever to have exercised torture? -- Nudve (talk) 17:17, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

No, of course not - I am sure that every democratic country does in some way or another - it's a sad fact of life. I made some edits clarifying: Israel is the only democratic country to legalize, and define the limits of, torture. The government also admitted that it went beyond its own self-defined limits. As far as I know these two phenomenon were unprecedented within a liberal democracy. Whereas other governments simply cover up their actions, in Israel, its somewhat out in the open (although as noted in my edit, they did not call it torture, they called it "physical pressure"). Thanks for bringing this to my attention so that the language could be clarified. Best, LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 17:56, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

(1) Yes, it should be clarified, if it's true, (2) Do you have a source saying it's true? (3) Since no other democratic country is mentioned in that section, perhaps it's undue and (4) as Uses of torture in recent times does detail torture in several other countries, including a section on Israel, should be put there. -- Nudve (talk) 18:08, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

1. It's been clarified. 2. Look at the edit, it's sourced, of course - I would never write such a thing without ample support. 3. It is absolutely not undue weight, since the Israeli case is truly exceptional and highly worthy of note, sad as this is, because, as said, it is the only democratic country ever to have legalized torture - to insert two sentences to this effect (as opposed to several paragraphs) does not take much space. 4. I'll take a look at Uses of torture section. LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 16:37, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

olmert's infobox

Hi Nudve,

I'd like to ask you, if you know where Israeli Prime minister infobox is located (the one used for olmert's article)?

There are two things i'm cocerned about:

1) is the "Deputy" section, which states as if Tzipi Livni is the the deputy Prime Minister -instaed of Acting Prime Minister

2) second, the dates now are correct, but the infobox looks bad - so i'd like to add more section title by add "additional paramenter" title:

|Acting Prime Minister =

I know in Hebrew wikipedia you can add an additional parameter title:

{{Additional parameter|Acting Prime Minister|]}}

- which will result as

Acting Prime Minister Tzipi Livni

do you know how can I do that in English wikipedia ?

--Shevashalosh (talk) 22:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Which article do you want to change? Olmert, Livni, or the template? I don't think this parameter is mentioned in any other PM or acting PM. Anyway, I believe the infobox is Template:Infobox Officeholder. You can bring this up to discussion there. -- Nudve (talk) 04:55, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Olmert I want to change:

1) says - deputy PM: Tzipi Livni. she is the minister of Acting PM, Deputy is an honorary title, hers is assuming office in any event that olmert cant function.

2) On Hebrew wikipedia there is an option not to change template, but add "additional title parameter:

{{Additional parameter|Acting Prime Minister|]}}

- which will result as:

Acting Prime Minister Tzipi Livni

do you know how can I do that in English wikipedia ?

--Shevashalosh (talk) 12:24, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Israel - NPOV issue

How is this section of text that I added in, not NPOV?

All the info in there can ber verified. Look it up. Cheers --Elmorino123 (talk) 01:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

help editing on Blood Libel at Deir Yassin

I'm trying to communicate with shabaz, to get his view of what he thinks is against NPOV, but can get no responce.

I don know that he does trust you on this, so i'd like you to get involved on talkpage - so we can all figure out - what the first paragraph of the opening statement should be, the one he is no setisfyed with.

Thank you. --Shevashalosh (talk) 23:50, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Deir Yassin massacre#Changes need in article and title - u r invited

Nudve, you are invited to take a look at Talk:Deir Yassin massacre#Changes need in article and title

--Shevashalosh (talk) 22:26, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Battle or siege

• FYI Ceedjee (talk) 13:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi, so "Battle" ? Ceedjee (talk) 19:12, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Thx for your answer on my talk page.

Maybe the best thing is only to discuss on the article talk page but they are not numerous people there...

Would you mind leaving a word there about your current feeling for the title ?

That will help to settle the dispute with S.

I don't mind much what he writes except if he put trouble in the article related to the 1948 War.

Thank you. Ceedjee (talk) 05:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Eliezer Livneh

As the author of the Hebrew version I enjoyed reading the translation very much. The interwiki link to the English version was added in the Hebrew wiki only today. If you continue to write about Israel, please make the English interwiki link in the hebrew page. As much as I enjoyed reading your translation, I regretted the fact that there was no link up to today from March 2008. Keep on the good work, it is very much appreciated. 79.176.164.173 (talk) 15:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Note to prposel of merge - with or without content?

Providing addtional citations

Providing more citations:

besides the usage in Hebrew wikipedia (Only "Auto-Anti-Semitism", not else), the Hebrew google shows 22,600 result for - אוטו אנטישמיות (two seperate words), and 1,790 for אוטואנטישמיות (as one word)

And I have other sources - also relating the term to "self hating Jew" (In English language):

• Drama and Ideoligy in Modern israel (e-book):

- connecting both terms side by side.

And a book containing parts of Benjamin Netanyahu:

• The Jerusalem Alternative

A major news paper story:

• Article in haaretz - determinig this basiclly an Antisematism : In other words, Antisematism

-Besides off course the ref to Nativ,Lishkat hakesher, official branch of the government responsible to ties with jews, known for operating during the cold war and jews in the soviet union (see:Auto-Anti-Semitism ref).

--Shevashalosh (talk) 07:25, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

what say you, I coudn't understand ? --Shevashalosh (talk) 07:34, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

P.s - there was already an agreement, to merge with content, (and I did the merge myself) - but all of a suuden Shabazz wants - not a "merge", but rather "delete" - "Auto-Anti-Semitism" and it's content - this was not the proposel to people on talk page, the headline was "Merge" - not "delete". --Shevashalosh (talk) 07:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Not sure I follow. What exactly is the difference, in your opinion, between "Auto Antisemitism" and "Self Hating Jew"? -- Nudve (talk) 07:58, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Fisrt, see the updated discussion between me and Shabazz, on the importance of this term to the political dialouge Talk:Self-hating Jew#Note to prposel of merge.

Second, The terms are pretty much Synonmous, this is why when a merge suggested by Shabazz was taged on "Auto-Anti-Semitism" - I posted a message that merging is possible.

The only argument was weather to mere "Auto-Anti-Sematism" into "Self hating Jew", like Shabaz has offered, or the other way around like i've argued that "Self hating Jew" was the descrition of the phenomenon and "Auto-Anti-Sematism" was the term-title (Here is the difference you are looking for, if any).

It was decided to "Merge" the two, not to "delete" (the headline was "merge" not "delete"), especially, noted by one supporter of Shabazz's prosal to "merge", that he supports merging "Auto-Anti-semitism" into "self hating Jew", only if the contant of "Auto-Anti-Sematism" is included.

I did the merge myself, despite the fact that it was the othe way around, including the contant of "Auto-Anti-Sematism" - as was a "Merge" was propesed and not "Delete", and not to ignore the realty, and mention the term in use in the article.

Shabazz, all of a sudden, don't accpet the "Merge" he himself proposed, but rather wants to "delete". He keeps "Deleting" the "Merge" of contant of both articles and keep the article as before "Auto-Anti-sematism" existed. This is unaceptble

Another diefference, the term "Auto-Antisematism" points back at people from Otto Weininger(see one of the ref above, I think in "Alternative Jerusalem"), whos work the Nazis used, and at list 1240, to Hebrew wikpedia pointing as back (In their category of it), as back as to Nicholas Donin, whos own making lesd to the burning of the Jewish liturgy, the Talmud.

The article "Self hating Jew", point at roots of the 19th century, and as "the fight between the Orthodox and reform jew -aand so I have added, the historical correction of:

However, despite the 19th cetury dispute pick, the phenomenon of Auto-Anti-Sematism goes back to 1240 AC, to Nicholas Donin, whose own making lead to the burning of the Jewish liturgy, the Talmud. (it is sttill there, since the "lock" of the article caught it up)

The histrical depth of the term "Auto-Anti-Sematism" - is the crucial part of merge (Some point at time it became synonmous with "self hating jew"), and the part in which, for some reason, Shabazz kept and kept deleting, letting people understand the the root of all of this is only in the 19th century.

What say you ? --Shevashalosh (talk) 09:10, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, Otto Weininger, is in ref - "Drama and ideology in modern Israel". This wasn't a fight between orthodx and reform. --Shevashalosh (talk) 09:36, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

?? --Shevashalosh (talk) 17:02, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure exactly what "historical depth" you are referring to. The article shows no such thing. Since "Self hating Jew" seems to be the most common term in English, I see no reason not to merge it into that article. If you want, you can add the term "Auto Antisemitism" to the lead, which is currently only a one-liner. -- Nudve (talk) 17:23, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I haven't objected to the merge, when it was decided upon on talk page, to the contaray, I meregd it myself ("merge" proposel not "delete" propsel).

This exacly the reason it is kept for now on a different article, since as noted by one of the supporters of the "merge", having saying that he supports Shabazz merge, if content is added, just like what you say now. the head line was "merge proposel", not "delete".

And as for Adding Auto-Anti-sematism to the lead, this is exaclly what Shabazz keeps deleting ....

What say you ? --Shevashalosh (talk) 18:02, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

He, for some reason, refuses to recognize adding the term "Auto-Antisemitsm" and the lead, in contra to what you say. ? --Shevashalosh (talk) 18:04, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I think the problem is not the name, but the "acadamic" adjective and the rest of the text. I can't really discuss this now. Perhaps tomorrow I'll join the debate on the article discussion page. -- Nudve (talk) 18:32, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't have any objections to droping the "academic" word, makes no diffrenece to me. The problem is that he wants to ignore the lead and completly not include both the term "Auto-Anti-Sematism" and the lead. If he had said "I object to academic word", then this would have been a different case, but he keeps deleting and delting it... as though this was "delete" proposel and not "merege".

Asking me to "rephrase" is different then just deleting the reality, and what was agreed upon ("mrege" not "delete") of the term in use "Auto-Anti-Sematism" as well as the lead.

I'll wait for your joining to the disscussions tomorow, your opinion will matter. --Shevashalosh (talk) 18:46, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Self-hating Jew

Thank you for taking the initiative and trying to resolve the merger. — ] (] · ]) 05:36, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Cedjee deleting all your citation from Self-hating Jew

After using your same ref of "Holocust dnial to add the sentance that it (Auto-Anti-Semitism) is beeing atrributed to "Post Zionism" and "New Historians, he has deleted all your citaions from the article - and your comments on the "Auto anti sematism" - as though not only your citation deos not exist but also the term it self.

I managed to restore only one of your citaiion, which I have copied it to a document on my computer.

Take a look at the rest of citation that is gone. --Shevashalosh (talk) 12:19, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

What are you talking about? All of the citations are still there. -- Nudve (talk) 12:21, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

After he deleted I managed to restore "Holocaust denial" (Caus I saved it on doc) - so now it apears, but he indeed deleted it (and also all your remarks about the existing term of Auto anti semitism, which I have noew restored, but he indeed deleted it - when he deleted it the term disapeared from the article)

Also near the sentance of auto anti semitism - there were two addtional citation that are still gone, "History of self hatred" and another one, which I don't know what it's got to to with the point, maby somebosy added for fun - something about "animals" or something.

have a look. --Shevashalosh (talk) 12:27, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Shevashalosh, I am fed-up.

I didn't delete anything !

Ceedjee (talk) 12:30, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

They now apear, so let's leave it there. --Shevashalosh (talk) 12:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

"They now ap"

They had never disappeared as I had to explain you 6 times and after you go and put your lie everywere.

Don't forget to APOLOGIZE and to go and correct your propaganda.

You know why some goys become antisemite ? Because Israelis such as you, not because of Arabs. Ceedjee (talk) 12:39, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Your remarks do not desrve a comments. --Shevashalosh (talk) 12:48, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Of, yes they do. I am not a Post-Zionist but they claim eg that whereas Zionism expected to offer Jews a safer place in the world; Israel is now the most dangerous area for Jews in the world. Maybe *I* don't deserve an answer from you, but maybe Post-Zionist should deserve a better answer to their anlysis than "Arabs are antisemite". Ceedjee (talk) 12:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Please stop. Shevashalosh, Ceedjee never deleted any of the citations. He only rephrased the sentence to make it more accurate. Maybe it looked at some point as if he did delete them because they weren't where you expected to find them. Just shake hands and stop fighting over this. Or at least do it somewhere else. Thanks -- Nudve (talk) 12:55, 17 August 2008 (UTC)