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| I do disagree. Vehemently. While you note that the "fetish" for Apple products means that commercials are made with Macs, you missed the main point. I don't think anyone would have really cared that Apple Macs were used to make the commercials. What is damning is that Microsoft chose to data-scrub any connection to Apple, therefore admitting to the embarrassment. It is most certainly not undue weight to note that, both in the lead (which is a summary of the article) and in the body of the criticism section. I, of course, have put the removed statement back in. Please remember that BRD means that, once reverted, the discussion cycle begins - not post your rationale before reinstating your edit without a discussion of the matter. - ] ] 15:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC) | I do disagree. Vehemently. While you note that the "fetish" for Apple products means that commercials are made with Macs, you missed the main point. I don't think anyone would have really cared that Apple Macs were used to make the commercials. What is damning is that Microsoft chose to data-scrub any connection to Apple, therefore admitting to the embarrassment. It is most certainly not undue weight to note that, both in the lead (which is a summary of the article) and in the body of the criticism section. I, of course, have put the removed statement back in. Please remember that BRD means that, once reverted, the discussion cycle begins - not post your rationale before reinstating your edit without a discussion of the matter. - ] ] 15:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC) | ||
| :The data-scrubbing is notable for the body of the article but I don't see it as "damning" that Microsoft chose to delete some metadata. Please remember that we're not trying to show-up Microsoft but rather to tell the story in a neutral manner. To be frank, the article it were written by a Macintosh employee first time I laid eyes on it with the majority of references leading to "PC guy uses Mac" blog sites. The lead seemed to portray Microsoft as an incompetent failure trying to chase Apple. Sure, the errors are notable but the criticism already takes up half the article space and this tidbit of deleting metadata is ] for the lead since it looks like Misplaced Pages is trying to hammer a point. Anyways, I'll open this issue for outside opinion in a sec so we can see what others think. <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>'']''</sup></font></b> 16:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC) clarify 16:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ==Spokesperson cites== | ==Spokesperson cites== | ||
Revision as of 16:55, 2 October 2008
Citations
I didn't really format all of the citations with templates, as there are so many out there that better citations than the ones I chose might be found by some enterprising soul with oodles of time on their hands, and there's no sense in wasting time before the citations are found to be stable and acceptable to all. - Arcayne () 18:54, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
- I'll finish it up tomorrow... going to bed now. Btw, it feels like too many of the citations are about mac traces in the images of the commercials - makes me a bit uncomfortable about the neutrality of the article - but I think my changes to the lead really helped that issue. Anyways, I'll keep reviewing these citations. Jaakobou 05:22, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
- the work was excellent, and I altered some of them because - in the final analysis, that which makes the ad campaign more notable than a new jingle song for Campbell's soup is the bone-headed move by Microsoft in allowing their ads to be made on their competitor's computers. - Arcayne () 06:11, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
- It's kinda known that graphic designers have a fetish for Apple's products and it works well with Apple's main theme of simplicity in design. Considering this, there's really no surprise in having the commercials being made with Macs - although it is a bit awkward for Microsoft and CPB that they didn't think about this issue. Anyways, I'm concerned that this article promotes a "boneheaded" narrative rather than just tell what happened in a neutral encyclopedic way. To clarify, I feel you've re-admitted undue material in the introduction regarding Microsoft's reaction to one section of criticism. It is already in the body of the article and is not that big a detail that it should be prominently displayed, taking up one sixth of the introduction to the article. I'll be bold for now, in hoping you will agree with me, and remove the re-addition of the text from the lead - but if you disagree, I would not object for external opinions on this.
- Cheers, Jaakobou 11:22, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
I do disagree. Vehemently. While you note that the "fetish" for Apple products means that commercials are made with Macs, you missed the main point. I don't think anyone would have really cared that Apple Macs were used to make the commercials. What is damning is that Microsoft chose to data-scrub any connection to Apple, therefore admitting to the embarrassment. It is most certainly not undue weight to note that, both in the lead (which is a summary of the article) and in the body of the criticism section. I, of course, have put the removed statement back in. Please remember that BRD means that, once reverted, the discussion cycle begins - not post your rationale before reinstating your edit without a discussion of the matter. - Arcayne () 15:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
- The data-scrubbing is notable for the body of the article but I don't see it as "damning" that Microsoft chose to delete some metadata. Please remember that we're not trying to show-up Microsoft but rather to tell the story in a neutral manner. To be frank, the article looked like it were written by a Macintosh employee first time I laid eyes on it with the majority of references leading to "PC guy uses Mac" blog sites. The lead seemed to portray Microsoft as an incompetent failure trying to chase Apple. Sure, the errors are notable but the criticism already takes up half the article space and this tidbit of deleting metadata is undue for the lead since it looks like Misplaced Pages is trying to hammer a point. Anyways, I'll open this issue for outside opinion in a sec so we can see what others think. Jaakobou 16:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC) clarify 16:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Spokesperson cites
I'm still not crazy about the sources for the claim that the people in the commercial are Mac fans. The first source used (Sydney Morning Herald) says their source is "Silicon Valley gossip blog Valleywag" and the fact that Chopra likes iPods (which are obviously not Macs). The second and third sources seem kinda bloggy, too. The first one is a mac site and the second is what seems to be a gossip blog. Aren't there any non-blogger sources for that? Kafziel 23:38, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
- I remember reading one mainstream one right off the bat that pointed to the irony of "self-proclaimed" mac users being used in the ad, but can't remember which one. The cite is in the article, though.
- Also, I thought that some tech blogs are not the same sorts of blogs that we exclude, as the writers of such are considered reliable and part of the industry (therefore notable), like Harry Knowles is for film and AICN.- Arcayne () 00:37, 1 October 2008 (UTC)