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::Why don't you get out of the way and let people decide for themselves, instead of shoving your uninvited and uninformed opinions down their throats? Since when is Misplaced Pages an authoritarian playground? ] (]) 03:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
::Why don't you get out of the way and let people decide for themselves, instead of shoving your uninvited and uninformed opinions down their throats? Since when is Misplaced Pages an authoritarian playground? ] (]) 03:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
:::He shows himself perfectly capable of printing the word pederast. He does not. Therefore, you are miss-attributing quotes and applying original research, which is one of the worse things you can do in an encyclopedia. Furthermore, your "category" is not a real category as it does not have proper determiners and criteria for acceptance. You cannot claim that since two people speculated that Byron might have been in a pederastic relationship that it was true, nor can you say that ''Giraud'' is a pederast. YOU don't seem to know what pederasty is, and that is why you are unable to come up with a real definition of it, but smear as many articles as you possibly can with vague assertions. There is a term for those who miss-attribute quotes and add such inappropriate terminology to multiple pages. ] (]) 05:20, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
:::He shows himself perfectly capable of printing the word pederast. He does not. Therefore, you are miss-attributing quotes and applying original research, which is one of the worse things you can do in an encyclopedia. Furthermore, your "category" is not a real category as it does not have proper determiners and criteria for acceptance. You cannot claim that since two people speculated that Byron might have been in a pederastic relationship that it was true, nor can you say that ''Giraud'' is a pederast. YOU don't seem to know what pederasty is, and that is why you are unable to come up with a real definition of it, but smear as many articles as you possibly can with vague assertions. There is a term for those who miss-attribute quotes and add such inappropriate terminology to multiple pages. ] (]) 05:20, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
::::Homophobic monomania rules the day. I am not surprised that you should consider the discussion of a personage's pederasty as a smear. There are some who think calling someone a jew is a smear. And just as that posture categorizes them, your position categorizes you as a homophobe. Your "denunciation" thus reveals you as a bona fide member of this fag bashing crowd that ideologically purges the documentation of pederasty, a homosexual subtopic, from Misplaced Pages. Why do you not delete the LGBT tag at the head of this page, while you are at it? What is it doing here if not confirming that we are discussing homosexuality between a man and a boy???
::::You also fail to understand that a category on the history of pederasty does not only include "proven pederasts" but actually encompasses ALL discussions of pederasty in history. This is not an ecclesiastical court documenting confirmed sinners for future immolation, but an academic category in which we gather items of interest to the topic. Your judgmental approach is out of place here, this is not junior high school nor some fundamentalist backwater. And do us all a favor and try to correct your previous less-than-intelligible post, so that we may be sure of what it is you are trying to say. ] (]) 11:17, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
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This article was nominated for deletion on 9 August 2008. The result of the discussion was no consensus.
If only known for his relationship with Byron (and even not among Byron's well-known relationships), then he is not notable. This is not sufficient for including in an encyclopedia. There are many famous people who have relationships with others, homosexual or otherwise. We don't need an article for everyone of those non-famous people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nocturnalsleeper (talk • contribs) 02:06, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
The notability criteria doesn't include the issues for which you removed the speedy delete tag. Context and refs do not relate to notability. Notability from what I can tell is stuff like is this person important enough to have his own encyclopaedia article. Saying he's a relative by marriage to an assistant of Lord Elgin and that he was one of Byron's lovers (and not even the famous or infamous ones like Lamb). Just being a lover is not notable. Did he influence Byron's writing in a meaningful way? Did he have an impact on culture or history? Just mentioning him in the Byron article should be sufficient. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nocturnalsleeper (talk • contribs) 16:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I am sure a fairly full account of his life can be written from the various bios on Byron--and possibly from t he fictional treatments of this also. The probability of the later makes al l the more reason for keeping. DGG (talk) 02:59, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Incorrect use of sources by Haiduc
This diff claims "Nicolò Giraud (1795-?) is known for being the pederastic beloved of Lord Byron at the age of 15 or 16." - Drummond Bone, The Cambridge Companion to Byron p.111
pp. 111-112 actually states: "Byron facetiously declared that he would contribute only a single chapter to the book, on 'the state of morals and a further treatise on the same to be entitled "Sodomy simplified or Paederasty proved to be praiseworthy from ancient authors and modern practice"' (BLJ, 1, 208). Although Byron's 'chapter' never materialised, remarks in his correspondence from the Levant often read like a series of 'queer' footnotes to Hobhouse's travelogue, in which the celebrated predilection for homosexuality amongst Albanians, Greeks, and Turks is tersely glossed over during a discussion of Albanian misogyny. Despite the fact that Byron waited until the disapproving Hobhouse left for England efore cultivating his boy lovers, Eustathios Georgious and Nicolo Giraud, his interest in Levantine homosexuality was not just the frisson of the sexual tourist, but an integral part of his interest in comparing Eastern and Western manners."
As you can see, there is no "pederastic beloved" used and no "known for being" used.
"As a result of their copious couplings, the boy developed an anal rupture"
You seem to be unaware of what you are saying. In your own quotation above, you confirm that the source I used identifies Giraud as his boy lover. That makes him his pederastic beloved. If you are not aware of what pederasty is, why do you interfere in this article?
And, now that you have called me a vandal and I have called you a censor, by what rights do you presume to delete the relevant category of "History of pederasty" when this person is discussed in the literature as Byron's pederastic beloved?! Who are you to stand in the way of the reader who is interested in past events related to pederasty and say, "No, you shall not know about this because I have decided that by my standards this is not pederastic enough!"
Why don't you get out of the way and let people decide for themselves, instead of shoving your uninvited and uninformed opinions down their throats? Since when is Misplaced Pages an authoritarian playground? Haiduc (talk) 03:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
He shows himself perfectly capable of printing the word pederast. He does not. Therefore, you are miss-attributing quotes and applying original research, which is one of the worse things you can do in an encyclopedia. Furthermore, your "category" is not a real category as it does not have proper determiners and criteria for acceptance. You cannot claim that since two people speculated that Byron might have been in a pederastic relationship that it was true, nor can you say that Giraud is a pederast. YOU don't seem to know what pederasty is, and that is why you are unable to come up with a real definition of it, but smear as many articles as you possibly can with vague assertions. There is a term for those who miss-attribute quotes and add such inappropriate terminology to multiple pages. Ottava Rima (talk) 05:20, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Homophobic monomania rules the day. I am not surprised that you should consider the discussion of a personage's pederasty as a smear. There are some who think calling someone a jew is a smear. And just as that posture categorizes them, your position categorizes you as a homophobe. Your "denunciation" thus reveals you as a bona fide member of this fag bashing crowd that ideologically purges the documentation of pederasty, a homosexual subtopic, from Misplaced Pages. Why do you not delete the LGBT tag at the head of this page, while you are at it? What is it doing here if not confirming that we are discussing homosexuality between a man and a boy???
You also fail to understand that a category on the history of pederasty does not only include "proven pederasts" but actually encompasses ALL discussions of pederasty in history. This is not an ecclesiastical court documenting confirmed sinners for future immolation, but an academic category in which we gather items of interest to the topic. Your judgmental approach is out of place here, this is not junior high school nor some fundamentalist backwater. And do us all a favor and try to correct your previous less-than-intelligible post, so that we may be sure of what it is you are trying to say. Haiduc (talk) 11:17, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
