Talk:GULAG Operation: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 21:21, 28 October 2008 editPiotrus (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Event coordinators, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers285,774 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit		Revision as of 22:46, 28 October 2008 edit undoHodja Nasreddin (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Pending changes reviewers31,217 edits →Verify credibility tags Next edit →
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	:::::::, . There is a lot more. A very knowledgeable author. I will return later.] (]) 19:12, 28 October 2008 (UTC)		:::::::, . There is a lot more. A very knowledgeable author. I will return later.] (]) 19:12, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
	::::::::Correct, and Novaya Gazeta is almost certainly the original source, so I updated the link. We don't link to plagiarists and copyright violators if we can help it. ] ] 19:17, 28 October 2008 (UTC)		::::::::Correct, and Novaya Gazeta is almost certainly the original source, so I updated the link. We don't link to plagiarists and copyright violators if we can help it. ] ] 19:17, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
			:::::::::No, two other Russian sources I provided were not from Novaya Gazeta, one of them was article in journal "]".] (]) 22:46, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

	:::::::According to Parish this was something to do with the "Political Center for Struggle with Bolshevism", which doesn't seem to be the same thing as the "Kampfbund gegen den Bolschewismus". I am thinking that this, a blue sky plan which came to nothing, should really be a small part of an article on the broader topic. ] ] 20:29, 28 October 2008 (UTC)		:::::::According to Parish this was something to do with the "Political Center for Struggle with Bolshevism", which doesn't seem to be the same thing as the "Kampfbund gegen den Bolschewismus". I am thinking that this, a blue sky plan which came to nothing, should really be a small part of an article on the broader topic. ] ] 20:29, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
	::::::::The bigger picture is German half-hearted attempts to create anti-Soviet resistance, currently a poor quality section at ] which certainly deserves its own article. GULAG operation was one of many operations, and I think MILHIST decided military operations, even small, are notable (but you can raise this question on that project discussion pages).--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]\|]</span></sub> 21:21, 28 October 2008 (UTC)		::::::::The bigger picture is German half-hearted attempts to create anti-Soviet resistance, currently a poor quality section at ] which certainly deserves its own article. GULAG operation was one of many operations, and I think MILHIST decided military operations, even small, are notable (but you can raise this question on that project discussion pages).--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]\|]</span></sub> 21:21, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
			:::::::::Unfortunately, we do not have an article about ], a personal secretary of Stalin who escaped abroad and also tried to organize ant-Soviet resistance (from Finland if I remember correctly).] (]) 22:46, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

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No English version of the homepage of the first ref - hrono.ru . The second is ref'd to memorial.kiev.usa; their EN description is here - - please explain why these refs are reliable sources. Novickas (talk) 15:13, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Memorial is a respectable NGO. PS. How did you find out about this article? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:14, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Alex's bot collects new articles. You know what they say: cave ab homine unius libri. Likewise articles. Is this the Novaya Gazeta Melenberg? Wouldn't he be a journalist? If they are a respectable NGO, the English translation of their website is disastrously inept - nothing unique about that - and appears somewhat deranged, the sort of thing that would have been written in green or purple ink in days gone by. What strikes me is that a secret German operation in WWII approved by the RSHA ought to be known from German sources. So this shouldn't be an article of one book. No hits for i-g-bessonov+gulag. Nothing exciting for bessonow+gulag or bessonov+gulag. This is an exciting new revelation from a region where Icebreaker is taken seriously, and should be treated with an appropriate degree of suspicion. Show me a German-language source and I'll be rather more open-minded. Angus McLellan (Talk) 18:37, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Additional Russian sources about this: , , .Biophys (talk) 18:42, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I am not certain my transliteration of Russian names into English was correct. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:43, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Russian wiki article about Meandrov .Biophys (talk) 18:48, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I found it yesterday :) PS. For Bessonov, I found one source: ///. The last page is particularly crucial: "was involved in sabotage on the Eastern Front including the dropping of agents near labor camps to liberate and arm the prisoners." Here's another good one: "campaign behind Soviet lines involved landing up to 50000 men in the far north, liberating the camps and arming the inmates". --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:55, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

127 articles of Mellenberg in Novaya Gazeta, this is also very interesting. There is a lot more. A very knowledgeable author. I will return later.Biophys (talk) 19:12, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Correct, and Novaya Gazeta is almost certainly the original source, so I updated the link. We don't link to plagiarists and copyright violators if we can help it. Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:17, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

No, two other Russian sources I provided were not from Novaya Gazeta, one of them was article in journal "Ogonyok".Biophys (talk) 22:46, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

According to Parish this was something to do with the "Political Center for Struggle with Bolshevism", which doesn't seem to be the same thing as the "Kampfbund gegen den Bolschewismus". I am thinking that this, a blue sky plan which came to nothing, should really be a small part of an article on the broader topic. Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:29, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

The bigger picture is German half-hearted attempts to create anti-Soviet resistance, currently a poor quality section at Collaboration_during_World_War_II#Russia which certainly deserves its own article. GULAG operation was one of many operations, and I think MILHIST decided military operations, even small, are notable (but you can raise this question on that project discussion pages).--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:21, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, we do not have an article about Boris Bazhanov, a personal secretary of Stalin who escaped abroad and also tried to organize ant-Soviet resistance (from Finland if I remember correctly).Biophys (talk) 22:46, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

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