Revision as of 14:42, 7 October 2005

This is a page for working on Arbitration decisions. It provides for work by Arbitrators and comment by the parties and others. After the analysis of /Evidence here and development of proposed principles, findings of fact, and remedies, please place proposed items you have confidence in on /Proposed decision.

Motions and requests by the parties

Template

1)

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Proposed temporary injunctions

Template

1)

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Proposed final decision

Proposed principles

Template

1) {text of proposed principle}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Information verified and reliable

1) Information which cannot be verified as having been published in a reputable source cannot be included in a Misplaced Pages article Misplaced Pages:Verifiability, see especially Misplaced Pages:Verifiability#Dubious_sources. Information should have been published in a reliable source Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources. In the case of unusual or scandalous assertions this becomes even more important, see Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources#Exceptional_claims_require_exceptional_evidence

Comment by Arbitrators:

1. These seem to be the central Misplaced Pages policies this matter turns on. Fred Bauder 15:36, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Proposed findings of fact

Template

1) {text of proposed finding of fact}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Gay celebrities

1) Onefortyone, usually editing as an anonymous ip in the 80.141 range, has added information to a number of articles concerning Hollywood and other celebrities regarding their sexual orientation.

Comment by Arbitrators:

1. Locus of dispute Fred Bauder 14:09, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment by parties:

1. Please see Talk page. - Ted Wilkes 14:36, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment by others:

Change in public opinion

1.1) Acceptance of gay celebrities has greatly increased. Some persons generally not perceived by the public to be gay or lesbian have turned out to be. This is a matter of some public interest. Credible information is sometimes published regarding such matters and can be encyclopedic, see Tab Hunter Confidential: The Making of a Movie Star, Tab Hunter and Eddie Muller, Algonquin Books of Chapel Hill (14 October, 2005), ISBN 1565124669 and Man Who Invented Rock Hudson: The Pretty Boys And Dirty Deals of Henry Willson, Pub Group West (9 September, 2005), hardcover, 325 pages, ISBN 078671607X

Comment by Arbitrators:

1. We can go too far one way or the other with this. An article regarding someone such as Elvis Presley or James Dean who never came out should not be dominated by intimations of a gay lifestyle anymore than an article about a known gay individual such as Raymond Burr. The focus need to be on the accomplishments of the person which make an article on them encyclopedic.

Comment by parties:

1. I do not think that the article would be dominated by intimations of Elvis's gay lifestyle if there is only a short note about the fact that there are claims about the singer's homosexual leanings to be found in some publications. Ted Wilkes has written several paragraphs on Elvis the womanizer. See "Relationships" section. But according to Priscilla Presley's account Elvis was not overtly sexual towards her and other women. See Onefortyone 11:02, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

1. Please see Talk page. - Ted Wilkes 14:36, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment by others:

Sources cited by Onefortyone

2) The sources cited by Onefortyone vary in quality, some being of doubtful reliability, some quite credible, see Talk:Nick_Adams/Archive_1#Discussion_of_sources, one of the better examples, another.

Comment by Arbitrators:

1. Sources are surprisingly good Fred Bauder 14:09, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Edits by Onefortyone

3) Some edits by Onefortyone seem appropriate, see

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Original reseach by Onefortyone

4) In some instances Onefortyone has used sources as material to support conclusions which he has arrived at himself, for example this edit to David Bret is supported by which says "Judy remembers going out on a Sunday with him and his friend, actor Nick Adams." Onefortyone converts "his friend" to "his boyfriend" He states "this accusation is proved", citing an unpublished book by Dee Presley and an interview with "his platonic girlfriend Judy Spreckels". However, a platonic relationship is only implied in the interview. In the interview the language is, "We loved each other, as it says on my picture. But it was just a really terrific friendship." Likewise this language, "Sorry, Lambert himself was a homosexual and part the gay circles in Hollywood. If he says that Adams was gay, then it must be true." while logical, is not a source in itself.

Comment by Arbitrators:

1. The conclusions drawn by Onefortyone, while not unreasonable, are not actually set forth in the source material in so many words. Fred Bauder 20:54, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment by parties:

1. The Judy Spreckels article says,

She was the sister Elvis Presley never had, a companion, confidante and keeper of secrets in the exciting days of his early career.

She once described herself as having been like a sister to Elvis but never a girlfriend.

See . I would interpret this as supporting the view that they had only a platonic friendship.

Here is a quote from Gavin Lambert's biography on Natalie Wood:

Her first studio-arranged date with a gay or bisexual actor had been with Nick Adams, whom the publicity department considered a more likely "beau" than Sal Mineo for the New York premiere of Rebel. (p. 199)

Interestingly, there is no doubt about the fact that Sal Mineo was gay. Lambert also states in his book that Natalie Wood dated many other gay men in Hollywood circles.

Members from the Memphis Mafia confirm that Elvis and Nick Adams were close friends. There are even photographs showing Elvis and Nick Adams sitting together in a car: Onefortyone 11:02, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Somehow you need to understand that this sort of thing is not conclusive evidence. I lived in a commune with gay people as did several other straight people, no amount of pictures of us eating together, playing ball together, etc. constitute evidence of anything more than friendship. This jumping to conclusions is fine for your private musings but does not belong in an encyclopedia or does any other type of original thinking. Fred Bauder 14:32, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment by others:

Citing of nonexistent sources by Onefortyone

5) Onefortyone, in at least one instance, cites a source which does not exist in the form cited .

Comment by Arbitrators:

1. This instance exposes a willingness to exaggerate in order to get his point across. Which brings up the question of what point he is attempting to make Fred Bauder 14:59, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment by parties:

1. I must confess that I have used the following source for my contribution:

March 30, 2002

Elvis Presley's Gay Secret

by (RGS/TG/BRC)

ELVIS PRESLEY's HOLLYWOOD YEARS

BRET, the legendary rocker's "greedy" manager COLONEL TOM PARKER blackmailed him into virtual slavery by threatening to leak reports of the romance. Bret says, "Parker held secret information about a homosexual affair between Elvis and actor NICK ADAMS over his head like a sword. He made it clear that... if Elvis didn't toe the line, he'd let it get out. At that time, it could well have ruined his career. That's why Parker had so much control over him." Presley's sexual experimentation began with a "teenage crush" on actor JAMES DEAN that grew into an obsession, says the book. The star saw REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE 44 times and eventually became close pals with Dean's Rebel co-star Nick Adams. Bret says, "Adams claimed that he had a brief affair with Elvis after Elvis 'agreed to be his date' for a preview of Nick's 1956 film THE LAST WAGON." Presley, by then a sex symbol sending legions of women swooning, became smitten with Adams and even tried unsuccessfully to get him a part in his first movie LOVE ME TENDER, says Bret. In 1958, "Nick Adams and Elvis stayed in the same room of the same hotel in New Orleans while Elvis was filming KING CREOLE there," the author reveals. Many journalists' attempts to 'out' the star in the past were thwarted by his manager.

(World Entertainment News Network)

Here is a direct quote from the introduction of Bret's book:

"...at least two accounts of Elvis's 'friendship' with Nick Adams were sold to scandal-rags during the paranoic moral mid-fifties. These stories were bought back by his manager in an attempt to keep the wholesome Presley image intact, also allowing the controlling force, 'Colonel' Tom Parker, to manipulate Elvis for another twenty years. Parker knew only too well that, had a story hit the press implying that Elvis had so much as associated with a wildly promiscuous homosexual, ... not only would Elvis's career have ended abruptly, so too would have Parker's seemingly limitless source of income."

In addition, it is stated on the back cover of the book that the author has unearthed "the truth about the powerful hold exercised over Elvis by 'Colonel' Tom Parker, which revolved around Parker preventing a leak about Presley's relationship with another man from going public and then using this knowledge as a persistent threat to ensure his protégé's loyalty." Onefortyone 11:02, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't see any problem with appropriate cites to Bret's book. You must be aware that there is some suspicion that you are Bret. If you are, welcome to Misplaced Pages, but obviously editing your own article or excessively promoting your book is inappropriate and certain to be more distressing to you then to those who might object. I think what I want is better citing when an unusual assertion is made and that cite to a good source. Also proportionality, a section, "rumors of homosexual romances," is fine in the Elvis Presley article. An introduction which starts off, Elvis Presley, a closeted homosexual, was a famous American rock and roll singer..." is not. Fred Bauder 14:42, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment by others:

Proposed remedies

Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.

Template

1) {text of proposed remedy}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Proposed enforcement

Template

1) {text of proposed enforcement}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Analysis of evidence

Place here items of evidence (with diffs) and detailed analysis

Template

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

General discussion

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others: