Misplaced Pages

• WP:HOAX
• WP:NOHOAXES

Caspian blue has both engineered a novel tactic and a wiki-neologism to describe it -- a "hoax redirect." I avoid conjecture as to the purpose of this novel gambit, but the available data support an arguable claim that a problem exists. This problem deserves closer scrutiny. This dispute would appear to involve a non-standard issues.

History

FIRST, an article about Yonsei, a descriptive term for fourth-generation emigrants/immigrants of Japanese descent in Latin America, North America and elsewhere in the world, attracted Caspian blue's attention. This non-stub article was arbitrarily moved and re-named without discussion or opportunity for comment and consensus discussion:

• 20:37, 6 November 2008 Caspian blue moved Yonsei to Yonsei (Japanese term): Making a dab page. This is NOT a well-known PRIMARY topic in English unlike "nisei" and "sansei" found in dictionaries and web search.)

This user's limited grasp of English usage renders this conclusory argument suspect; but in order to respond effectively to this casually disruptive edit required furhter research. I did invest research time in order to rebut Caspian blue's demonstrably insupportable claim. However, it is relevant to note that the a priori version of this article included fully developed bibliographic reference citations and in-line citations. Also, it may be relevant that more than one active editor was in the process of adding to the Yonsei text. The moved article was arbitrarily re-named Yonsei (Japanese term). A new disambiguation page -- Yonsei -- was created and populated with spurious links. What might have been nothing more than a misunderstanding is hard to dismiss in the context of the otherwise inexplicable post hoc hoax links:

Yonsei may refer to;

• Yonsei (Japanese term), fourth generation of Japanese immigrants to America and Australia
• Honorific term for Age in Korean.
• Yonsei University, a private university in Seoul, South Korea
• Yonsei Severance Hospital, first modern hospital affiliated with Yonsei University
• Yonsei Medical Journal, published by Yonsei University College of Medicine.
• Yonsei Basketball Association, association for Japanese-American Youth Basketball

SECOND, the presumptively necessary disambiguation was edited to eliminate specious links:

• 01:47, 8 November 2008 Kusunose attempted a disambiguation page cleanup: rm {{wiktionary|Yonsei}}, entry does not exist; rm entry about Korean honorific, a dic def; rm piping; rm entires with no links; single blue link per line)

THIRD, the misnamed Yonsei (Japanese term) was further modified without discussion or opportunity for comment and consensus discussion -- moved again to Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei):

• 06:05, 10 Novemer 2008 DA19 created (redirect from Yonsei (Japanese term): while the origins of Nikkei is Japanese, the North American and Latin American descendants of Japanese immigrants are the primary users of what is a Nikkei term.)

FOURTH, when I attempted to question the contrived redirect -- Yonsei Severance Hospital, then Caspian blue initiated an AfD thread to delete the Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei) ... which was formerly Yonsei (Japanese term) and just plain Yonsei before that ....

• WP:V
• WP:VERIFY
• WP:SOURCE

AXIOM/FACT: The requirements of WP:V are minimal.

The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth -— that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Misplaced Pages has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or the material may be removed.

Proposed solution

PROPOSAL #1: The article about emigrants/immigrants of Japanese descent should be named Yonsei in the same simple manner as its corollary articles -- Issei (1st generation emigrants/immgirants), Nisei (2nd generation emigrants/immigrants) and Sansei (3rd generation emigrants/immigrants). The original name should be restored as the simplest and best solution to unnecessary problems which flow from a series of unhelpful article moves.

The article's name needs be the subject of reasoned discussion; and a consensus decision needs to be reached in due course.

PROPOSAL #2: Like Yale (disambiguation), which Caspian blue mentions in the second paragraph of the opening salvo at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei), this page can be renamed Yonsei (disambiguation). In fact, this is what could have been done, should have been done in the first place .... Caspian blue's post hoc analysis explains an ante-hoc decision-making process.

Bluntly, Caspian blue deliberately trod in a rough-shod fashion over consensus-building niceties -- see second paragraph. I take grim notice of the mention of "rants" attributable to me. This is an inadvertent admission that Talk:Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei) was ignored; and instead, Caspian blue selected a more confrontational attack.

My response: By all means, do read anything and everything I've written, and what seem especially relevant are the prose Caspian blue characterizes as "rants." In the context my "rants" create, the disambiguation is seen as nothing but a contrived gambit, unsupported by research or reference citations.

Questions to be answered

The difficult issues to be addressed are these:

• 1. What, if anything, could have been done differently at any step of the edit histories which precede this posting?
• 2. What is the best way to sort this out now?
• 3. What, if anything, can be done to avert or mitigate similarly needless conflicts in the future.

This is a serious situation which calls for a thoughtful approach.

However, for me, what is not tolerable is anything like the perverse charade which unfolded at Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-11-06 Woo Jang-choon, more specifically in the full discussion thread which unfolded here. --Tenmei (talk) 00:14, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Quo vadis

On November 5th, the Yonsei University hatnote was the following:

"Yonsei" redirects here. For fourth-generation Americans of Japanese descent, see Japanese American.

On November 6th, as a result of my edit, the Yonsei University hatnote became the following:

For fourth-generation emigrants of Japanese descent, see Yonsei.

At that time, I did not perceive this as a controversial edit. My focus was on the extent to which Yonsei and its corollaries -- Issei, Nisei, Sansei and Nikkei, were being re-focused to encompass a broader, wider multi-national cohort beyond Japanese-American yonsei, including

• Nipo-brasileiro yonsei (Brazil)?
• Canadian Japonese yonsei/Canadien-japonais yonsei (Canada)?
• Japonés Peruano yonsei (Peru)? ... etc.

In the context established by the following template, it is not unreasonable for me to have been blissfully unaware that this minor edit would ignite a dispute with dimensions of Korean and Japanese nationalism.

At that point, my primary focus was in re-examining the extent to which Misplaced Pages articles about the NIkkei might be better served by melding or marrying the slightly divergent perspectives in:

• Japanese Foreign Ministry: Japan-Netherlands Relations
• Statistics Nederlands; Statistics Netherlands
• Japaners in Nederland

In the context of the thread above, these are devalued considerations, irrelevant factors. Whatever is going on here has devolved into a game about something else entirely ... and without putting too fine a point on it, there's something gravely amiss.

While I continue to follow Taemyr's lead, I have increased misgivings. --Tenmei (talk) 21:17, 17 November 2008 (UTC)