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Yonsei Severance Hospital

Amongst the following reference source(s), please point out the specific passage(s) on which you rely in posting "Yonsei Severance Hospital"?

• "연세대학교 의대 세브란스병원 (延世大學校醫大 ─ 病院)" (in Korean). Empas/ Britannica.
• "연세대학교의료원 (延世大學校醫療院)" (in Korean). Empas/ EncyKorea.
• Official Website

As you know, the alternate name for this hospital will need to be removed from the introduction unless something in these sources specifically utilizes the precise language you have added -- see diff

In order to be both clear and non-confrontational, I would hope you will construe it as helpful for me to direct your attention to a familiar paragraph at WP:V:

The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth—that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Misplaced Pages has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or the material may be removed.

Perhaps this becomes a very simple matter, easily resolved? --Tenmei (talk) 23:19, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

You're a Japanese who is supposed to be able to read Chinese characters, so why don't you try to even read the "Chinese characters" of the sources? Very hard task for you?--Caspian blue 23:26, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment: This posting is non-responsive and pointlessly provocative. I believed at the time that ignoring such misdirection was the most constructive contribution I could make. That view has changed. It now seems clear that such confrontational prose needs to be labelled as such and rebuffed as unhelpful. --Tenmei (talk) 19:33, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

The institution does not call its self "Yonsei University Severance Hospital". See its webpage. (Occidentalist (talk) 05:42, 20 November 2008 (UTC)).

Comment: The questions I raised about the phrase "Yonsei Severance Hospital" were informed by the following:

• Severance Hospital: "Severance Hospital Ushers in New era," Chosun Ilbo. May 11, 2005.
• Severance Hospital International Health Center
• Yonsei University Health System (YUHS)
• Yonsei University Medical Center (YUMC): Kim, H-J. et al. (2000). "Design of a full-PACS with experiences of mini-PACS in Yonsei University Medical Center," PACS design and evaluation conference, San Diego, California, United States; February 15, 2000 ... referencing "1,582 beds in Shinchon Severance hospital in main university campus and 746 beds in affiliated Youngdong Severance hospital which is 20 miles away from the main campus" but not explicitly naming "Yonsei Severance Hospital"
• U.S. National Institute of Health: Study 8 of 24 for search of Yonsei Severance Hospital ... none using the explicit name "Yonsei Severance Hospital"
• Embassy of the United States, Seoul: health information.

This is not proof that Caspian blue is wrong, but the difficulty in responding to specific questions is a reasonable cause for asking more questions. I had thought that by accepting "Yonsei University Severance Hospital" as a step in the right dirction, it could become a common foundation from which to work. That now appears to have been an overly optimistic approach to a seemingly intractable and inexplicable resistance? --Tenmei (talk) 19:33, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

You blindly reverted my edits regardless of the newly provided sources. Yonsei University, College of Medicine Severance Hospital is an official name, and people commonly call the hospital "Yonsei University Severance Hospital" or "Yonsei Severance Hospital" if you see the references. You follow my edits and want to cause problems.--Caspian blue 06:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment:There was nothing "blind" in Occidentalist's rejection of additional reference sources which simply do not prove the point -- that is, not a single source Caspian blue has proffered thus far supports the specific, exact phrase "Yonsei Severance Hospital"; and the additional fruitless research, while not proving the term is invalid, does raise the level of incredulity which has been exacerbated by the provocative, confrontational and inflammatory tone Caspian blue chooses to present again and again. --Tenmei (talk) 19:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Official name?

I emailed them. It is officially called Severance Hospital. At no time in its history was it called Yonsei University Severance Hospital.

The articles discuss Yonsei Medical Center and call it "Severance Hospital". It is simple. (Occidentalist (talk) 14:36, 20 November 2008 (UTC)).

So where is the evidence of the email? Also why did you still put the {{OR}}, {{Synthesis}}, {{Noreference}} tags? The infomation found in the encyclopedias confirm the another title. You can forward your email to WP:OTRS team, so I can also verify your claim. --Caspian blue 14:51, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced material, original research, and synthesis

The contrived phrase "Yonsei Severance Hosptial" appears to be unsourced material. It is appropriate and reasonable that the phrase is tagged with the relevant templates which have been posted on the main page. Moreover, this has been explained and amplified by appropriate comments already posted on this talk page -- see above.

This continuing objection concerns what seems to be nothing more than a curious neologism. To use a term Caspian blue introduces into this dispute/discussion, it seems to be, on the basis of available data, to be a kind of "hoax"?

Summarizing the causes for dispute in words which are incorporated into the tag templates:

• 1. The phrase "Yonsei Severance Hospital" needs credible citations for verification.
• 2. The phrase "Yonsei Severance Hospital" is based entirely on original research or unverified claims.
• 3. The phrase "Yonsei Severance Hospital" is based entirely on an unpublished synthesis of published material that conveys ideas not attributable to the original sources.

Unless the phrase "Yonsei Severance Hospital" is improved by adding references, (a) the justifiable attack on its veracity will remain unrelenting; and (b) the wiki-procedures now in place anticipate that unsourced material will be challenged and removed.

A plausible response would be for anyone to help improve this questioned redirect by proffering reliable references. A mere "revert" without more will prove unsatisfactory. Why can't this become a very simple matter, easily resolved? --Tenmei (talk) 18:54, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Caspian blue -- The following source citations adequately address the reasonable questions I have asked ad nauseum without an answer before this:

• "Cho Byung-kuk: Lifelong Guardian Angel of Adoptees". The Chosun Ilbo. Oct.30,2008. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help) citing Yonsei University Severance Hospital
• "`Stomach Cancer Recovery 17 Times Higher if Detected Early`". The Dong-a Ilbo. NOVEMBER 11, 2008. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help) citing Yonsei University Severance Hospital

Caspian blue -- I will assume that you have read and understood these words and ideas. If you do not understand any or all of it, you have only to ask questions; and I will try to respond clearly and reasonably. In the absence of further questions, I will assume that this represents a foundation plank from which you and I will build a more constructive working relationship. --Tenmei (talk) 05:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Tenmei

Tenmei (talk · contribs), the Korean sources are reliable and you blatantly disregard the sources because of your inability of reading the sources. I also provided a result from google search and you just refused to look at it. I inserted additional citations just for the title because of your constant harassment and trolling to me and articles. You may be good at some area but you're the last person that I want to share with my time in Misplaced Pages. You just want to deny any results that the usages of Yonsei for Yonsei University is dominant over the Japanese term referring to the fourth generation of Japanese immigrants.

The only reason that I currently support Yonsei stays as a DAB page at the Talk:Yonsei (disambiguation) is to stay "far far far away from you", and to stop talking with you regardless of whether this dispute is just wrapped up without any consensus or not. I hope you indulge in the subject with your "grand ambition" for the generation articles. This decision is not because your obstinate insistence is logical or persuasive to me, but because any conversation with you is totally worthless with no gain, and just causes me to have increasingly excruciating "headache", "fatigue", "exhaustion", and "stress". Along with your absurd accusations regarding "hoax"ness, you also "distorted" that I did not do research on the subject before nominating the AFD. As I already stated, I "did" research and checked sources with some deal of time. I would have no intention to retract my position even if we were going back to the time of the AFD was right open. You're not the only one who read the request by Dekkappai back then. I sometimes checked to see if he is back from his retirement in my hopeful thinking. Before that, I've also known the meaning/position of issei, and nisei placed in the history of Asian immigration along with Chinese-American history through books/documentaries/movies etc, but "yonsei"? *shrug*. Besides, if you check on the history of Yonsei University article, you will see my name on May for the redirect and hat note. I suggest you to rethink about why you don't get much attention from people on the contrary of your lengthy postings here and there. Do not intentionally make people irritated further.--Caspian blue 04:40, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Who's kidding who?

Caspian blue -- For the moment, I will only respond to the first sentence of this undistinguished posting.

FACT: I have not now or ever construed ... "Korean sources as unreliable ..."

• Do not post such inflammatory, provocative, confrontational sentences in any context which involves me. I consider this as a personal attack and I will respond vigorously if you ever do it again. To be redundantly CLEAR, PRECISE, UNAMBIGUOUS: You damn well need to be prepared with credible proof of such a claim in future or you can expect for me to shove this unconscionable, extravagant invective to be shoved down your throat sideways. It is my intention with this sentence to be idiomatically emphatic.

FACT: I have not now or ever ... "blatantly disregard the sources ..."

• Do not post such inflammatory, provocative, confrontational sentences in any context which involves me. I consider this as a personal attack and I will respond vigorously if you ever do it again. To be redundantly CLEAR, PRECISE, UNAMBIGUOUS: You damn well need to be prepared with credible proof of such a claim in future or you can expect for me to shove this unconscionable, extravagant invective to be shoved down your throat sideways. It is my intention with this sentence to be idiomatically emphatic.

FACT:I have not now or ever disregarded, devalued, underappreciated, ignored, diminished, or denied Korean sources or citations presented in Korean ... "because of your inability of</strike reading the sources."

• Do not post such inflammatory, provocative, confrontational sentences in any context which involves me. I consider this as a personal attack and I will respond vigorously if you ever do it again. To be redundantly CLEAR, PRECISE, UNAMBIGUOUS: You damn well need to be prepared with credible proof of such a claim in future or you can expect for me to shove this unconscionable, extravagant invective to be shoved down your throat sideways. It is my intention with this sentence to be idiomatically emphatic.

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