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Please take a second to consider whether it's appropriate to start here a discussion about an article contribution I've made. As rule of thumb, if you have a comment about my behavior, then please post on this page. On the other hand, if you are debating the article's contents, please post on the article's talk page instead, so the discussion is easily available to all editors involved. Messages here are regularly archived.

Pharmboy

Yes, I am Pharmboy. I am now using real name, which was fortunately available, due to a fair amount of confusion regarding the "meaning" of Pharmboy. I have always published it here anyway. Pharmboy wasn't a drug references. I don't live on a farm (or pharm.). It was just a name I have used forever, but now will just use my real name to avoid any confusion and/or prejudice. More of a mocking "k3wL" thing on the whole ph=f craze years ago. Anyway, hi. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 13:20, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

• "I am requesting a rename on Commons." and will do the same on wikisource. from Pharmboy to Dennis Brown. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 18:12, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

North Carolina

What should I do! I included a summary of my deletion and on the talk page but it was still deleted. I want to help but I do not know how. I went through the info and decided which should stay on "North Carolina" and what to be on "Demographics of North Carolina".Stefano98 (talk) 22:15, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

• No problem, I left a message on your talk page. Don't worry, this is not a biggie, just a simple misunderstanding. Go politely ask about it on his talk page. I tend to agree with your edits, personally. PHARMBOY 22:16, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Fallen Angel (25 ta Life album)

Yes. If it's a limited release, it should definitely have sources. I say AFD it. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 19:08, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

• I'm gonna try to source it first, see if I can find anything interesting. If not, I will put it up. PHARMBOY 19:09, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
  • I prodded it, but someone took it off saying that the BLUE lps were limited only, you can still get it on CD (I see you can). I guess it passes, although only due to being from a notable band. I haven't seen any sources for this EP that pass wp:rs. PHARMBOY 21:00, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages talk:Biographies of living persons#BLP prod

I thought you'd be interested in and might like to comment on the above. RMHED (talk) 21:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• Thank you for the reminder. As you already know by now, I have participated. We do agree on the goals here, hopefully we can help find a method to achieve them. And thanks for catching my error on PlaneShift (video game), I had a brain fart on that one. As you can tell, I changed my name here to my real name, so to avert any confusion, Pharmboy --> DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 13:16, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Hello Dennis are you really sure you want to use your real name? Especially as it's likely at some point you'll become an admin, it might cause you problems. I do not want to cause you alarm but it took me just 5 minutes to find out your address, phone number and cell phone number. If you are comfortable with anybody being able to find out this info then no problem, if you're not then I'd advise a rethink on the user name. RMHED (talk) 21:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Not sure I am admin material, I can be a bit gruff even when I don't mean to. And you may very well be right and it may be a mistake that I will have to disappear from if I go that route. I have always published my real name here, after 8k edits, no problems. I am curious about the cell phone number (the rest isn't that hard to get). The addresses are probably wrong likely Greensboro. I haven't even changed my driver's license. If you don't mind, email me with what you think the cell is, very curious. But yea, it's a risk. Oh, and I don't have a home phone now, don't see a need. Email my old home number if you have it, ha. I owned a pawnshop for 6 years (sold it in 2004). Had a very good friend gunned down in his own shop. And I'm ex-USAF. I'm no stranger to risk. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 22:51, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Sent you an email, I'm sure you'll make a fine admin Dennis, just go for it. RMHED (talk) 23:52, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Thanks for the vote of confidence. Yes old info, the cell number is the wifes. I shouldn't be shocked, I was a criminal defense investigator for a couple of years back in the late 1980s. Hmm, my life looks more interesting on paper than it really is. But I don't forsee any issue that can't be handled. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 00:03, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
          • I hope you're right. Now when can I expect to see your RfA? Grasp the nettle Dennis and ride boldly into the valley of death. RMHED (talk) 00:30, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
            • Naw, you will have to wait at least a few months before you can vote me down as admin. DGG convinced me that I should back off and work on my core skills a bit, particularly communication. I have a lot of respect for his judgement. I'm a bit of a cowboy, and need to work on my patience, and not coming on too strong before I can make a good admin. (my job rewards this behavior, but real life doesn't and Misplaced Pages doesn't need it) Otherwise, I might chase off some good people. If I do RfA, it won't be this year. As we type, I am in the middle of trying to save Frank Hammond, a valid prod that is actually a notable person but very very hard to demonstrate. THAT is probably the best use of my time here for now, fixing BLPs, proded or not. If I'm going to butt in on BLP, I should put my money where my mouth is and work more on being the solution to the problem. And I have seen your RfA. Wow. You have 5 pound brass balls, ha! DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 00:39, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
              • Dennis you are a perfectly adequate communicator, compared to some admins I can think of you are the acme of pleasantness and consideration. A successful RfA has very little to do with core skills, providing you haven't pissed off too many people or called Arbcom a bunch of clowns who should be euthanised, then potential opposers will look for reasons such as not enough article work or not enough experience in admin areas etc. Of course if you are endorsed by someone popular enough then it should go smoothly. RfA is really just a popularity contest, if you're popular enough then your foibles will be overlooked, if you're not then said foibles will be used against you in all sorts of creative ways.
                By the way, you'd get a support vote from me. RMHED (talk) 01:19, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
                • Thanks, that truly means a lot. Its easy to support someone when you agree 100% of the time, but I understand it takes a lot more effort when the road has been bumpy, it means you have to take the time to understand someone. As to being admin, I am not 100% convinced that I want to do that either. Just need a little time make sure its the right thing for me. I do have a career and wife and dog and all. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 01:25, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
                  • I'd consult the dog for advice providing it isn't a Poodle, they know nothing. RMHED (talk) 01:42, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Request

Hey Dennis, sorry for taking so long to respond. I unfortunately have been very busy for the last few weeks and am going to be busy until the middle of December. Thus, I do not think I would be the best admin coach at the moment. I took a very very brief look at your contributions here and everything looks pretty good. If you would like I could ask around and see if anyone else would be interested in coaching you. Let me know. KnightLago (talk) 22:35, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for getting back. At the advice of DGG I am going to work on my authoring and communications skills for a bit. I have plenty of experience editing, and tons of real world experience, but we both agree I should focus on those skills without a time limit. If I decide to pursue this further, I may ask you for an evaluation at a later date if you don't mind. Thanks again! PHARMBOY 23:03, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

No problem. KnightLago (talk) 23:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Subkulture

Yeah, he seems to be in good faith even if he's wrong. He's probably new and wants to save the article, so he's throwing out links to see if they stick. I'd say that the article is toast. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 02:41, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

• I felt this was a pretty clear cut case, and he isn't new as much as inexperienced in debating policy. He actually seems like a cool guy and all, just not up to speed with policy. I have taken a lot of extra time to try to help explain and give him examples, but I think that if you were to look at it with enough thought, and offered an opinion, it may help shed some light on the issue. I could just blow him off, but again, I think the guy has his heart in the right place and has something to offer. Kinda like you or I before we spent more time learning the guidelines and the policies. I respect guys who can disagree without being disagreeable. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 02:45, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I think you made the right decision. I'm still in favor of weeding the Goth rock bands and record labels, for what it's worth. But here you had a case where editors were willing to provide some support for it's inclusion (we'll agree to disagree on whether it was enough support). Take care. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:56, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I just wanted to let you know that I added: "The name Subkulture is based on an intentional misspelling of the word subculture," to the article's introduction as per your concern. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:34, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

You do know I think the article still fails, and withdrew as good faith it can be fixed "someday", right? ;) DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 00:30, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh I know! But my bigger concern is the jealousy you've inspired by appearing to reside in an area where you're enjoying sweet tea and BBQ on a regular basis. I'm going to have to rustle up a couple pulled pork sandwiches at Pinky's up the street to satisfy the hunger this knowledge has inspired. See what you've done! I hope you're happy. And it may not be enough, because BBQ is just not the same out here on the left coast...ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:30, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget our notable art initiatives and world reknown festivals! We Carolinians do know how to live high on the hog. You don't find pigs on just every street corner in America. Well, not fiberglass ones, anyway. Oh, did you notice that Pigs in the City made the front page in the Did you know? section earlier today? Ahem. It appears that someone at Misplaced Pages agrees with our southern sensibilities when it comes to swine art fine art. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 23:49, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: Pigs in the City and Lexingon Barbecue

Sure, I'll try to take a look sometime tonight! Pigs in the City was very well-referenced, which is quite a change from most of what I see coming through DYK. One thing that would help would be to fill out the refs more by including all the citation info you can find (author, title, date, publisher, etc.) to include in the ref along with the link (that makes it easier to verify information, and plus it just looks cleaner than having a bare URL). I can work on that as well. For the future, when you're developing articles you can use citation templates, which do all the formatting of the ref for you (you just plug in author name, title, etc., and the template arranges everything and takes care of the wiki syntax) if that makes it easier.

Thanks for your message, I'll try to take a look at the Lexington article sometime tonight! —Politizer /_contribs 22:49, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• Yes, the refs are a fright. It came through DYK huh? I was thinking about submitting it myself, that is pretty cool! Thanks again for looking. I recently installed Twinkle and the other tools, which should make cites easier. I've been here for over 2 years, but now taking article creation more serious, and need to go back and fix some things. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 22:55, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I was pleased to nominate the Pigs in the City article, Dennis. Good work, and nice photographs. Cbl62 (talk) 01:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Redirecting Human values

Is it OK to redirect Human values to Value (personal and cultural)? -- IRP ☎ 00:25, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Eh, redirects are cheap and they convey similar enough concepts. That is fine with me. I assume that would solve some of the recreate issues as well. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 00:28, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Redirect creation complete. -- IRP ☎ 00:32, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I put a comment on the talk page, which should reinforce it a little. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 00:34, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Pigs in the City

On 10 November, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Pigs in the City, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 10:41, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Languages in Star Wars

Hello! I have found an reliable encyclopedic source that can be used to reference that article. Please note this diff. I hope that helps! Sincerely, --A Nobody 20:50, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• you are missing the point. That article makes about 300 'claims'. Each claim needs a citation, or else it is "original research". No one is questioning the accuracy so much as it is impossible to verify that it is accurate, one fact at a time. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 00:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Thank you for the reply. Anyway, I think that from the published encyclopedia's section on languages alone, we can reference much of that article, but from doing a Google book search of the individual languages, we can reference the individual languages as well, just as I did with the Wookiee language's out of universe claim that it is based on a South American language. Just typing in Huttese, Bocce, Shyriiwook, etc. all turn up multiple hits and I have found that Google Books is not so comprehensive that it features "every" reliable book source, which means given the preponderance of publications on the Star Wars franchise, I expect that even more sources can be found. aboslutely I would not be surprised if these languages are not also covered in magazines that might not necessarily have online archives. That which we cannot verify should be removed, but I believe there is enough that is verifiable and that is or will be cited that would merit at worst a merge/redirect. What I do not see is any urgent need that when I and at least one other editor are actively looking for additional sources and actively revising the article accordingly that the article needs to be redlinked within five days and the edit history removed so that if/when additional sources turn up, editors have to start over. Of course the article has some ways to go, but the 23 edits made since nomination suggest that it is on that path. Best, --A Nobody 00:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Thank you for keeping an open mind and discussing rather than just voting and moving on. That is commendable! All the best, --A Nobody 17:09, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

My CSD page

Go ahead, you're more than welcome to it. I borrowed it from someone or a few someone. Bonus points for the haiku StarM 02:24, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Hehe, I thought you would appreciate that, and as a bonus, it demonstrated that I actually read the whole thing. I was looking at maybe doing an RfA, and you were recommended as someone to observe. I can see why. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 02:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Yes, bonus points for reading. Someone to observe, hmm. Do as I say, not as I do -- i.e. don't let your content contributions fall off post RfA. I swore I wouldn't, but it has happened. I admit, I've seen you around somewhere but I'm not familiar with your contributions I don't think. Am happy to review, but I'm a bit time limited right now so I'm not best if you're on deadline. StarM 03:13, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

If you wanted to review my contribs, that would be great, but that actually didn't even cross my mind. Really, the whole purpose of the haiku was to serve up a well deserved compliment in a meaningful way. I was just told you handle situations well, and your past contribs are a good read for learning how to apply patience and tact. And I'm not on a deadline. I'm an old IT guy, not admin hungry. If it can help Misplaced Pages, then I will. What I get out of it is more experience authoring, which I need. The whole RfA process itself is almost enough of a put-off to keep me from trying anyway. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 03:26, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

LOL, yes. It can be a drain. If the person hasn't told you my old username, you probably not have seen my RfA, but it went fairly well. Fewer issues than I would have expected. I try to handle situations well -- I think people working together is far more conducive to a better project than drama, but where there are people, there is drama, sadly. I have fun with my museums, they're a fairly drama-free zone. Watch me regret my words on that. StarM 03:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Tyler James

Hey there, here is my problem with the Tyler James (U.S.) page: there is another musician from England with the same name. If you type in Tyler James into the search he comes up, is there a way we could do a "disambiguation" link to the American Tyler James' page?

• I added this to the UK article head:

For the U.S. musician of the same name, see Tyler James (musician)

For now, that is likely the best solution, since your article is new. A disambig page may be the answer since neither is that much more notable than the other. For this, I would start a discussion on the UK page, since it was here first. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 01:58, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. I was wondering what more you'd like for citations. Let me know. I have a few questions regarding the page as well, such as adding a photo; and I think a link to his myspace page is a good reference...maybe not though--Pveclaire (talk) 02:03, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• I think the artist passes, but not everyone might agree. It would benefit you and reduce the chance of a delete situation if you had an interview or something stronger like an album review. It would really be good if you could have something that passes WP:RS guidelines to source at least one of the albums. That they are unsourced may cause you problems later on. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 02:07, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

hi again, we'll move this conversation to the discussion page of Tyler James (musician)--Pveclaire (talk) 02:12, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

antifictionalism run amok

when the leading character of the most important English novel of the last 25 yrs is nominated for deletion, a rather strong expression is appropriate. It was not a personal comment to anyone, as if I had said, he was nuts to have nominated it. DGG (talk) 17:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• If I had seen your trimmed comments first, I wouldn't have said anything. Right or wrong, I meant it to be a light hearted but sincere observation that your wording was a bit strong. I intentionally misdirected your comment to myself as well, and knew they weren't really directed to me. I just wanted to diffuse the tension. In hindsight, it would have been better if I had avoided this AFD altogether, as my observations didn't appear to help anyone. Sorry if I caused any unnecessary confusion. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 18:06, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

no problem; and I chanced upon your note to TPH, glad you're seeing the light!. DGG (talk) 00:20, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Wikiquette alert

Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette_alerts#Personal_abuse -- John (Daytona2 · Talk · Contribs) 09:09, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Congrats

I noticed a couple of "saves". Although as I was reveling in your success, I did stumble across the fact that in 2005 there were 900 grandmasters. And it appears the grade inflation associated with the title is well established. Sounds like a strong delete to me. Nine hundred?

But I don't want to rain on your parade, so don't let me bring you down. Your efforts to investigate and turn over stones in pursuit of good references and notability are to be commended. And saving a weak article isn't a big deal (in my opinion) but losing a good one is. So keep on keeping on. Just don't ever disagree with me again, EVER. No just kidding. You can do it once per annum. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:44, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

• There are other reasons he is notable, but being a bio, the sources must be carefully added. If you check the history, he was in a cheating scandal in 2006, now involved in online casinos, etc. And I will be happy to comply with not disagreeing with you. All I ask in return is that you discontinue being wrong ;) DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 03:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Yeah I just checked it out. Lucky for you he's quite notable. Interesting that he was nominated. A former rival? ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:53, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Don't need luck when you read the history. You interested in radio? After I called someone rude, I appear to have picked up a fan. Besides, it will give you the chance to make me look good. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 04:00, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Oh, I noticed your little incident. Tsk tsk tsk. A little bit rough in your lesson eh teach? :)
      • Radio stations are almost always kept as far as I can tell. Why wasn't Boris winning two junior championships mentioned in that nom? That seems like a big deal. Maybe bigger than his being a grand champion. Are you slipping? ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:08, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
        • It got speedy kept, and I was kinda busy reverting the nom's deletions of existing sources and getting a 2nd opinion about him. I get around. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 04:11, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
          • Always with the excuses. You didn't seem to be doing much when I posted a comment here... I didn't even have time to clarify after I read the article and did a quick search on young Boris. (He's got a number of interesting accomplishments and achievments to his credit). So what's on tap for tomorrow? I think we should write a good article on something fun instead of wallowing in the deletion review cess pool. :) I did like that Australian eatery article. Nothing like a good lion burger, eh mate?ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:17, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
            • Ah, it is YOU who is slipping. The radio station was aussie. The eatery was California. Who knows what I will do tomorrow, I may just hang out with the wife. And the "incident", well the only one who found genuine fault in my actions was a non-admin who appears to like to get involved in these types of affairs. Strange that I never met them before then and then find out they have an interest in many of the same AFDs I do. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 04:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
              • What do you make of this one: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Asha Degree? Above my pay grade, but seems like it would be nice if Misplaced Pages included missing persons some-how. I guess DGG would be the one to ask? I was hoping you'd weigh in on a bookstore that was taking some heat, but I guess you were too busy verifying UFOs? Fortunately some responsible editors stepped in to help. But seriously, mind your Ps and Qs with the sarcasm. People bite back and it's no fun at all. Didn't you ever learn not to go hitting hornet's nests?ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:00, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
              • This one is kind of interesting too: Pirate Radio (radio show). Not sure what to make of it or the deletion discussion. But after seeing you vote to save branded whiteboard products I have serious concerns about your ummm judgement. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:05, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
                • Dr. Brown if you can find the time to tear yourself away from your abiding interest in swine (and its related food products), I wonder if you could offer any insight or suggest some sources in regards to the List of dodgeball variations article and its related AfD. Remember to duck as necessary... ChildofMidnight (talk) 08:42, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
                  • I prefer my activies to be called "porkology" but I digest... I enterted the fray, removed some tags. the article should stay, but it needs a cat (I put Sports, but that is too vague). I will put a rescue tag on it as well. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 11:46, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
                  • I also looked at Pirate Radio (radio show), which doesn't seem particularly notable (or sourceable) to me, and the potential to touch on BLP issues made it an easy one to delete. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 15:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
                    • Pirate radio's chances aren't looking good, but I thought it was interesting to see the controversy over a radio show that no longer exists. I suspect there may be some notability there, but I couldn't figure out what to make of it all.
                    • Are you leaving unsigned philosophical commentary on my talk page now? I guess that's what I get for using the term "swine" about our beloved porcine friends. Indeed Misplaced Pages's dodgeball variants article appears to be the gold standard for providing this information on the interenet and is copied elsewhere, which is why it would be such a pity to lose the article. Even the original research guidelines should, perhaps, be softened when it comes to good faith additions on this popular game played in various forms around the country and around the globe. That's my opinion anyway. I wonder if I'm undermining the article by sourcing some sections. Will that just provide an excuse to delete other sections? Maybe I should just leave the sources as general? ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:37, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Oops, didn't mean to leave the comment on your page unsigned. I noticed that site was claiming copyright (which of course is a violation of the GFDL, but everyone else does it, why not them?). I don't think improving an article is ever undermining it. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 18:39, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

re: Bow ties

I suggest Category:Wikipedians who support lists in Misplaced Pages.--otherlleft (talk) 12:31, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay with me, but can you also make a People who object to the words "list of" being included in article titles category? ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:30, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I like List of people who make imaginary "List of" articles as well. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 18:35, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Imaginary? I hope you aren't casting aspersions on the well documented list of UFO related entities article. You're going to feel pretty silly when Area 51 is declassified, and Lindsay Lohan is revealed as Martian. Do you honestly believe Barney Frank and Newt Gingrich are human?ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:43, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Whatever it is that you are taking, you are either taking too much or not enough. Adjust the dosage. ;) DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 18:50, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I wonder what you make of the small furor and edit warring over Paul Pantone? It's already been the subject of numerous ANI reports and is full protected at the moment, so you're dodgeball skills will again be called upon. Another example of a wide spread conspiracy to deprive us of advanced engine technologies, a non-notable subject, or a good example of notable nonsense (as one Misplaced Pages put it)? ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I spent some time down around Davidson College. It's lovely down there. It took a bit of getting used to for this New Yorker to adjust to all the door holding and courtesy though. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:46, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

(undent)Lol, I had to look that up. It's not far from here. I'm in Davidson county, which is about 30 miles from the college, but I work in the Greensboro area and seldom go down to Metrolina. And I am a native Texan, I thought people here were a bit rude compared to what I was used to when I moved here 16 years ago. (I would love NY, huh?) I guess it is all relative. This is an interesting area, mix of old and new, with lots of baggage from the days of slavery. That is one reason I like writing about it, it is a contradiction in many ways. If you ever get down this way again, I will take you BBQ joint hopping. Oh, and Mt. Airy (the original Mayberry from Andy Griffith). Don't get me started... DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 00:58, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Well I believe many of Davidson's students are from even deeper in the south, ie. Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, etc. So, except for the odd yankee, maybe that's why I came across so much gentility.

Yo you got a Tony Roma's down there or what? If not, fuhgetaboutit. What part of Texas, if I may ask? Good win for the Cowboys yesterday. Vince Young was awesome at UT. Ricky Williams too. Good ribs down there, but a lot of beef ribs which aren't really my thing. I'm more a pulled pork man, although I won't turn down a rack, that's for sure. And I swear there was more valet parking in Dallas than there is in LA. Maybe not that much, but still, came as a surprise. Don't work too hard... ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:08, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Abilene texas originally, but I have lived all over Texas and the US. Just reported http://www.pickupgame.com/Sports_How_To_Play_Every_Sport/dodgeball_rules.php as violating the gfdl at wp:mirror, fun. Did you ever check out my gallery of photos I have taken and uploaded for use here? Hehe, you can see my smoker and the smoked 'country style' ribs I cooked for a work lunch the other day. And 100 pigs. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 02:14, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I had seen them, but I hadn't realized the smoker was yours. Very nice. I hope to visit soon. I have some photos I want to upload (to illustrate various articles), but I'm nervous to disclose my identity. What are my options? And I reviewed the upload options and if I'm to do it I want to be credited if anyone else (other websites)use the photo. Is that how you do yours? I realize I am contradicting myself, but I want anonymity and credit for my work. What can I tell you, that's how I roll! Do you put cole slaw on your pull porked sandwich or no? Boiled peanuts? And I assume as Texan you drink sweet tea, which is divine! I miss it still. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:55, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

You could just create a new account at commons.wikimedia.org with your real name and release under CC3 license, which is what I use (free but attribution). I always upload to commons so all the projects can use the photos. I have a unified login (Dennis Brown on all wikisites), but you don't have to. Of course incorporating them into articles should be done by more than just you, by emailing others you trust or doing some as a logged out IP with no summary from a couple of locations (work, library). Not perfect but should be ok. Ask at the notice desk if this is kosher, but I think so. I don't try to be anonymous (I'm an ex PI and feel that anyone determined enough can figure out who I am anyway). No slaw, no sugar, no peanuts. I'm actually more of a city boy living on the lake. I'm just surrounded by redder than usual necks, many of which are very nice.

Your opinion is requested...

Notwithstanding our shouting matches over at Bow Ties, I respect your opinion rather a lot, and I'd like yours on my closure of Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Asha Degree. If that's OK? Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 05:28, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

• I wouldn't call bow ties a shouting match. Really, I'm good at shouting, give me an opportunity. ;) And thanks. As for Asha Degree, I think your rationale was on note, and I would be happy to say so if it went to DRV. I was troubled because there were plenty of reliable sources (in spite of the claim there wasn't) but I knew it really didn't belong, yet wasn't sure of the policy that best applies. BLP1E *does* appear to be the best guideline to apply here. This article was as good as they come for being "good" (picture, sources, text) and might be a good reason to get a conversation started at BLP to create a wp:missing person policy or shortcut based on blp1e. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 11:57, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

What do you think of this one JJS Karate Dojo? Consensus developing to merge it with a non-notable school. Article seems to have some references. It is a bit advertisey though. Thanks for your comments above. Very helpful and I am considering my next step. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:12, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm getting my opinion asked for a lot lately. Usually the boss just says that when he wants it, he will just beat it out of me ;) I entered a merge comment on that one. There are some extra problems I covered there. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 19:40, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Alec Holowka References

Care to help me out on what I should add to wikify my References? Cheers - UnlimitedAccess (talk) 13:29, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

• Let me take a look and see if I can help. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 13:31, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Got it, I can do the rest, can I remove the two notices once done? - UnlimitedAccess (talk) 13:40, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
    • It is always good to get an outside opinion on that. How about you yell when you are done fixing the refs and such, and I will be happy to look at it. I am still not sure about some of the references passing wp:rs, and potential coi issues, but open minded. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 13:42, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Cheers, I'll get back to you when im done. if I remember my wiki policy though COI was only if someone directly in contact with the subject material or a 1st hand source edited the article. If fandom is a qualifier for COI then Wiki wouldnt get very far. I left notes on the talk page addressing it. - UnlimitedAccess (talk)
        • Not exactly, and I have left a message on your user page about signing your sig as User:Access on the article talkpage. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 13:47, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
          • Okay done, check it out, and remove noteifications if you think the sources are cited right. - UnlimitedAccess (talk) 14:08, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
            • I removed the OR tag, but I still think the BLP tag needs to be there. What you have there looks like it is sourced ok, but lots of those sources are primary, and the other sources are game related sites. I think this is fine to establish notability and to source the claims, but because this is a WP:BLP article, it would helpful if it has sources from independent news sites and such. With articles about living people, the extra steps are pretty common, to protect the individual and/or Misplaced Pages. I don't think there would be any issue with someone trying to delete it anyway, tag or no tag, as the sources seem to fit that one purpose fine. I saw a couple of things at google news recently and there may be older stuff as well. These might be independent enough to ditch the blp tag, but I would recommend two. Again, we are very careful with living person bios. Other than that very minor detail, it looks like a good article. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 16:45, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Dude, you are great!

Dude! Your input in that surf band AfD gave me a huge laugh. You are wonderful! Keep up the great work -- I am enjoying your input!

Ecoleetage (talk) wishes you peace!

• Well, thank you back! Someone will probably hold that one against me in an upcoming RfA, but I just couldn't help myself. Sometimes, we all just need to laugh and not take ourselves too seriously. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 20:07, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
  • True, true. Thanks for the injection of humour. :) Paul Erik 20:29, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
• Don't quit your day job... Given the extensive CBC radio coverage and the newspaper articles, I'm curious why you don't think they meet the notability threshold? Has Dennis Brown gone Deletionist? And what was the drinking beer and eating crab reference? That was over my head, although I saw Futurama last night and the crab character was serving crab claws that he "made himself" and the robot drinks beer as fuel I guess? But that still seems like a stretch, and I just can't picture drinking beer and eating crab claws to an Ottawa "surf band" that bases its songs on non-existence spy movie music. What am I missing? Besides needing a vacation! ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:51, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Honestly, what it meant was that I read all the information about the band, and they sounded like a fun band to go see. fortunately, it would likely be $5 cover charge or less, since they aren't notable, but the claims in the article DO make it sound like they are a fun party band. And they play surf music soundtracks for 60s movies that don't exist, so the crabs sounded like the kinda food that would be served where they gig at. Seriously, I would pay $5 to see them. Not any more, but yea, $5. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 20:55, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

If you were from Austin you might feel differently. Thanks for the clarification. I picture myself eating ribs and a pulled pork sandwich while listening to them, which may be partially your fault. Not listening to them would actually be my preference, but they have recieved some material news coverage. You're not much on the Filipino Karate Kids these days either I see. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:04, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I am working on User:Dennis Brown/Missing person, which is something I think we desperately need here. Everyone is welcome to join in, by the way. I want to develop it a bit then go to BLP with it and watch everyone stab me and each other with sharp objects (in the eye) fighting over it. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 21:08, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Hold it against you in an upcoming RfA? That is funny! I received an e-mail from one of the Misplaced Pages admins who, after reading something I wrote online, warned me: “This will be used against you if you ever go for RfA again.” And I responded: “Everything I write is going to be used against me.” Really, think about it. If I praise someone, I will be seen as obsequious. If I criticize someone, I will be seen as bitey. If I explain why someone is misinterpreting policy, I will be Wiki-lawyering. If I call up WP:IAR, I will be blocked for breaking the rules. If I ask someone I respect to review a discussion, I am canvassing. If I side with someone on several occasions, I am part of a cabal. If I advocate the preservation of articles, I am an extremist inclusionist. If I advocate the removal of the articles, I am an extremist deletionist. If I keep to myself, I am anti-social. If I leave messages all over the place, I am MySpacey. You can’t win, can you? :) Ecoleetage (talk) 21:21, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

You make it sound so glamorous, makes we want to go self-nominate right now! Maybe even arbcom!... I'm a 40+ old fart that eats a daily diet of negativity and stupidity at work. I love helping here because I believe in the project, but I don't take anyone here serious. It isn't like they can affect my paycheck. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 21:46, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey, let's nominate each other and go down together...you go first, of course! :-) Ecoleetage (talk) 21:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

If I decide to go ahead and RfA, it may be a self nom. I'm pretty confident in stuff like that, and while I don't think I would go down in flames (or you), my ego won't get bruised if it does. I get abused worse daily. For money, granted, but I have thick skin. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 21:55, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Prod2 on PicJungle

I prodded as this user seems to not quite understand what is going on with Misplaced Pages (he is on ANI), and I wanted to let him down easy. It probably does qualify for a CSD, but for the sake of courtesy I backed off and PRODded. If the message is removed, I will CSD. — neuro 13:37, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

WWW1

Hey thanks for changing the, I just wanted to make sure an article got created. Like I said in the discussion on the page I knew nothing about it and the only information I could find was what I used, however I want to get it up to a more non-computer specialist friendly article could you consider modifying the more complex terminology or expanding upon it. SADADS (talk) 00:16, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Well well well, here I've come to see what's stirring with my main man Dennis Brown and what do I find but a reminder of the loss of WWW1. And even more the pity this was done after you fixed up the article! And of course, you were one of the advocaters for its elimination. What's next Dennis, nominating your own articles for deletion?

Anyway, I just came by to see if I could rile you up about something. I was going to make an inappropriate comment in the AfD discussion about a certain girls' slumber party game in which you've demonstrated some expertise, but I figure I get in enough trouble without going looking for it. Have a great weekend. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:43, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I fixed that article to show that even after the best possible fix (I do manage IT) the article was still not worth keeping as it was still misleading. Sorry. As for making an inappropriate comment, go for it. It would fun to watch you 'splain yourself at ANI. ;) DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 13:33, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

John Bigelow, IV

Just doublechecking if I understood you correctly. Was this comment you posted based on me nominating or based on the prod comment I wanted to see discussed? - Mgm| 12:01, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

• If the nominator doesn't want it deleted per se, then in my humble opinion, it shouldn't have been brought to AFD. I have never seen where "procedure" is a reason to delete an article via WP:AFD or WP:Deletion policy. It isn't personal, as many people do "procedural" AFDs, which I feel waste time if the nom isn't giving a valid reason to delete at nom. I didn't look at the article or the PROD. It was really a procedural vote. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 13:29, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

BRD

Read it, live it, love it. ScienceApologist (talk) 00:41, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Yes, I know the essay. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 00:44, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Good. Then you have 96 hours to offer your argument for your reversion. ScienceApologist (talk) 00:55, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I am not sure why you are insisting on being confrontational in this, but as I stated, we can do this any way you want. I would suggest keeping all talk on the article talk page from here forward. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 00:58, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I know

I know he wants to run me off. I just don't care any more. I really hope you guys can turn the article into something decent, but I've got more enjoyable edits I'd like to be making. I don't have 24/7 to spend in battle against an ideological fanatic with unlimited time and wikilawyering abilities. Good luck. :) Abyssal (talk) 00:05, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. Abyssal (talk) 00:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

November 2008

Hello. It appears that you have been canvassing—leaving messages on others' talk pages to notify them of an ongoing community decision, debate, or vote. While friendly notices are allowed, they should be limited and nonpartisan in distribution and should reflect a neutral point of view. Please do not post notices which are indiscriminately cross-posted, which espouse a certain point of view or side of a debate, or which are selectively sent only to those who are believed to hold the same opinion as you. Remember to respect Misplaced Pages's principle of consensus-building by allowing decisions to reflect the prevailing opinion among the community at large. Be careful. Your advertisements of your ANI post might run afoul of our canvassing policy. ScienceApologist (talk) 00:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it appears that I have been informing everyone who was in the discussion, including those that disagreed with my point of view. No one was excluded. That isn't canvasing. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 00:54, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

• Walk away Dennis, quickly now. I could have warned you it would go the way it did on AN/I. ScienceAplogist isn't someone to tangle with lightly, unless you're prepared to play the long game. RMHED (talk) 01:53, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your patience Dennis

I appreciate your patience in dealing with the nuisances caused by a disruptive editor. It's unfortunate that someone intent on disruption can skirt the rules by playing along the rule boundaries avoiding explicit rule breaking while violating the spirit of guidelines. Judging from ScienceApologist's discussion page he is a persistent irritant to a large number of Wikipedians working in good faith to make useful contributions. I think people looking into the situation will recognize this, so I hope you won't let it interfere with your good contributions here.ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I'd also like to express my appreciation for your efforts. You walked into a real hornets' nest. :) Zagalejo^^^ 07:30, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Let it drop

Misplaced Pages would experience greater loss losing you to the acts of a heavy-handed member of an admin clique than the deletion of the List of alleged UFO-related entities. There's no need to push the issue any more, just let it drop. Let certain cry babies have their way. It wasn't even an important article, anyway. Go back to editing articles you enjoy and let the wikistress roll off your shoulders. :) Abyssal (talk) 02:24, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Final note on UFOs

I don't actually care about the article, being a rationalist who thinks UFO fans are a bit nutty. To me, it is a matter of principle: we have policies and guidelines to insure every voice is heard, particularly during and after an AFD. The problem seems be that all editors are equal, but some are more equal than others. The same actions from another user would have resulted in some action, if only a trout slapping. I've been here a couple of years with many edits, but only recently have I been getting involved in the politics of the website. I am beginning to understand why it is hard to keep good editors here. In spite of some editors misconceptions, I'm not pissed off, although a little surprised at how quickly disruptive behavior is swept under the rug when it is the right person. I am not the sort to join "cliques" and find it difficult to accept mediocrity simply because it is popular. Although not apparent in the current discussion, there is a clear disdain for non-academics among many sysops here. This is both arrogant and shortsighted, alienating potential contributors from the business world. It does make me question whether spending time trying to improve Misplaced Pages is the best use of my time. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 14:26, 25 November 2008 (UTC)