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Revision as of 19:23, 4 December 2008 editSDJ (talk | contribs)4,730 edits IP still at it: automation← Previous edit Revision as of 00:49, 6 December 2008 edit undoMattisse (talk | contribs)78,542 edits An idea!: new sectionNext edit →
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:::::*By 'other ways', I meant Undo, or a manual revert. I've not used the automated tools. ] (]) 15:40, 4 December 2008 (UTC) :::::*By 'other ways', I meant Undo, or a manual revert. I've not used the automated tools. ] (]) 15:40, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not much of one for automation either. I've had some bad bot experiences perpetrated against me, you might say, and haven't always had the best experience with Twinklers either. Thanks again for the feedback. <small><sup>''S.''</sup></small><small><sub>''D.''</sub></small>'''D.J.'''] 19:23, 4 December 2008 (UTC) :I'm not much of one for automation either. I've had some bad bot experiences perpetrated against me, you might say, and haven't always had the best experience with Twinklers either. Thanks again for the feedback. <small><sup>''S.''</sup></small><small><sub>''D.''</sub></small>'''D.J.'''] 19:23, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

== An idea! ==

This is regarding the current situation regarding ], i.e. the two blocked editors and the proposed solutions.

I have refrained from editing anything about ] since ] entered the scene and took possession of the Che Guevara articles, although I still have them on my watchlist. I have no interest in getting involved now, as Redthoreau is far too aggressive. I do not know the other editor involved in this dispute but I can sympathize with a complaint that 61 quotations is too many for an article! I frequently review articles for GAN, and there is no quality standard that would allow that at Misplaced Pages!

Do you think that a solution might be to get an outside editor's view of ] for a quality review of such issues? Redthoreau does not allow quality input and never submits his Che Guevara articles to any kind of outside input, such as Peer Review or ]. There are several very good editors that I am sure that neither Redthoreau nor the other editor has had any contact with. For example, ] and ] basically run ] and both are excellent editors.

I experienced Redthoreau when he took over the ] article, which at the time was a ]. Because of the massive changes he made to the article, I took the article to ] and ultimately its FA golden star was removed. See: ]. To his credit, Redthoreau modified his attitude during the FAR, when forced to deal with knowledgeable editors. That is why I am suggesting this alternative now, rather than an RFC, which I am pretty sure will not be helpful to the article. ], who helped out Redthoreau trying to fix the Che Guevara article, also might be willing to get involved.

I am suggesting this because Redthoreau will continue to dominate the articles, so perhaps he could at least learn to produce articles of more quality. Perhaps a good editor aware of article quality could act as a mediator. If ] were willing, he would be excellent. He is not only a very good edtior but he is tough and would not be intimidated by Redthoreau. Regards, &mdash;] (]) 00:49, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 00:49, 6 December 2008

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Duncan Airlie James

Thankyou very much for your help very much appreciated —Preceding unsigned comment added by BMW67 (talkcontribs) 18:47, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Mac

Mac came back today with 9 more copyright violations. They're on his talk page. NJGW (talk) 14:31, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll take another look when I have some time. Your comment at User_talk:Mac#Nine more new copyright violations appears to be the strongest evidence so far of misbehavior. The usual case seems to be that he lifts single sentences out of other publications. If there is anything more drastic it would be good to hear about it. It does look as though further action is needed. EdJohnston (talk) 15:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
There are a few instances when he lifts paragraphs. He made 5 more such violations after I left links for the 9 mentioned above. NJGW (talk) 15:18, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Blocked again. Unfortunately, in these cases the incommunicative editor tends to view it as a test of wills, so I'm not optimistic for a good outcome. Any other ideas? I assume people have tried sending him email. He seems to have some expertise, and I wonder if anyone knows him off-wiki. EdJohnston (talk) 17:59, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for trying the one thing that would force him to talk. I think he's been around long enough that he'll want to stick around (unless he decides to use socks). From his first edits, assuming of course that he didn't usurp the account at some point, he seems to have started with an interest in computers and programming, though now he says he has a radio show in Spain on electric cars, solar power, alternative energy, etc. (I only know that from his talk page). All of his edits the past few months have been based on news reports, blogs and press releases, so I'm not sure what his formal background is on these subjects. Here's hoping this will work and he stops creating clean-up duties for others. NJGW (talk) 20:58, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
By the way, someone pointed out in one of the RFD's I opened for today's redirects that when Mac creates links between processes/products and some company that is somehow connected, he is effectively google-bombing Misplaced Pages, creating multiple hits for his favorite companies. I've seen this in google searches before, where a bunch of hits will be to redirects instead of to content. NJGW (talk) 21:22, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

This is Mac. Same editing time and style, and mysteriously appears yesterday with lots of edits to obscure pages. NJGW (talk) 07:27, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Mac is now using 82.159.136.216 (talk · contribs) and 193.145.201.52 (talk · contribs). You can see how these two tag-team edit Glossary of fuel cell terms and Reform (disambiguation) within minutes of each other. I haven't made the reports yet because I want to see if he responds to you. I'm usually pretty impressed with your approach to admin tasks, so I'm hoping that you can have a more positive effect than whacking at him with blocks. NJGW (talk) 08:07, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Ragusino again

Hi Ed, as you've probably noticed, Ragusino is coming along each day and making one minor edit to a couple of the articles he's interested in. It's not especially problematic, as it's only been once a day, but I've reverted each of them as I feel he ought to address the issues surrounding his block before he is allowed to edit. However, so that I'm sure I'm on safe ground, I'd like you to review this and let me know whether you feel I ought to continue to revert, as they are minor edits. Thanks for your guidance, AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 09:35, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I see no problem with you reverting his edits. Is there a sockpuppet report open for Ragusino? Adding the IPs there would be worthwhile. EdJohnston (talk) 20:34, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

likely Koov

Five characters now: Kinpo (talk · contribs). Colchicum (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Five letters: he is branching out! His interests are still the same, though. EdJohnston (talk) 20:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

False Minor edits?

As per my talk page, on another note, I am perplexed as to why user Scientizzle was able to make at least two falsely marked Minor edits when reverting my entire edits in article Creationism on Nov 10th at times 17:07 and 16:56, and it seems he received no warnings or repercussions? Is this something you can look into? Hassandoodle (talk) 21:39, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

The use of the 'rollback' feature causes edits to be marked minor, by default. I hope he won't do that again. Meanwhile, I'm still looking forward to those positive contributions from you. If we were sure you were not a sock, we would think more highly of you. EdJohnston (talk) 21:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

ANI ... USS Liberty

you stated --- "Hello, Henrywinklestein. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion is about the topic WP:ANI#USS Liberty Incident. Thank you. EdJohnston (talk) 22:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)"


GOOD !! That is perfectly fine with me. I just hope that someone with a more objective view than Narson and JayJG wrestles this issue to the ground. Their consistent and constant repression of my edits and the edits of others is an insult to the sailors and marines who lost their lives on the USS Liberty. I think their actions need to be investigated.

And please assure them that I am not a "sockpuppet" - go ahead - do a check user. BE MY GUEST.'--Henrywinklestein (talk) 01:31, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Do hurry this discussion on. I've made my comment and rebuttal at WP:ANI -> USS Liberty. Having the page frozen for one day, but miraculously just after Jayjg removes my entries, is one delay too many. Now I have to deal with another previously uninvolved editor who has had NOTHING to do with the talk page, yet is willing to create yet another delay and stall scenario, with hardly an unbiased word concerning the real issues on the USS Liberty Page. Speaking of bias, I notice that even though you opened the WP:ANI, you thought it appropriate to say this at WP:ANI:

I suggest that the WP:Edit war rules should be enforced against editors who keep re-inserting mention of the Moorer report without being willing to join in a Talk page discussion of that report, or supply appropriate references when requested. Repeated re-insertion of the same thing, each time it is reverted, can't be viewed as a good-faith effort to reach consensus. If multiple editors re-insert the same thing, sanctions for all should be considered. Yellabina and WorldFacts are two editors who've been re-inserting almost identical material. Neither has made any contributions outside this article or its Talk page. EdJohnston (talk) 22:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Considering that it is you who started this WP:ANI, isn't this rather similar to being judge and jury at the same time? Apparently, the obvious conflict of interest on your part doesn't bother you at all. I'm curious as to whether you have even read the Talk Page. I had heard that the standards at Misplaced Pages were low, but had not imagined how low they could get. These low standards, in fact, are why I joined - to increase the standards. Did you know Misplaced Pages is no longer allowed as a source at any reputable university? No matter, I am only trying to increase the USS Liberty incident pages truth and fact quotient. I for one know there has been a plethora of talk and delays. I also notice the only attempts at consensus, however, have been on my part.

As for making other entries on other subjects, I'd love to, but until I can get these to stick, I won't be moving on to others.

Let's move this along, shall we. My entries will be added back before long if you do not act. These little issues brought up on WikiPedia do have the effect of decreasing the time intervals that my entries are not on the USS Liberty incident page, a fact that has not slipped by. In fact, I suspect, based on the lack of real discussion at WP:ANI, that this is the point of these little games played by completely uninvolved, but obviously biased, editors. (Your Bias is indicated above.) I don't intend to play what any casual observer would see as your delay and stall game. Facts on this world will always be WorldFacts (talk) 15:42, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I was trying to ensure that the policy against WP:Edit warring was being followed at USS Liberty incident. It also seemed to me that a group of socks, or meatpuppets, might be editing the article. (Three of the accounts were created in early November, and had no other interests). Since the article has settled down somewhat, and many people are participating, I haven't followed up lately. If you think our policies are not being followed on that article, say what is specifically the matter. (Your dislike of what the article says is not a good enough reason to change it. Find sources and make arguments based on our policies). Editors who are willing to engage in a source-based discussion on the Talk page would be immune to the warning that I issued above. My concern was that some people were backing each other up by repeatedly re-inserting material that was removed previously, without participating on Talk by adding any new sources or any reasoning based on Misplaced Pages policy. As I see it, that violates WP:Edit war. You yourself have not been active on Talk lately. If you restore previously-removed material without Talk discussion, admins may be on your case. EdJohnston (talk) 16:22, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I don't think WP Policies are being followed at all. Concerning this comment from above, "If you think our policies are not being followed on that article, say what is specifically the matter.", I have made several charges concerning which WP policies are not being followed in my WP:ANI - USS Liberty incident response. I do not plan on sitting around waiting for explanations, as these charges have been made before with no satisfactory explanations given. It is no secret that 'waiting for responses' is exactly what I am expected to do - simply wait for explanations which are not forthcoming, or receiving explanations which have little or no relevance at all. During this wait time, my entries remain off the page. How convenient!
I have made several attempts to conforming to WP policies and I have provided several rebuttals to arguments used against the entries. None of my rebuttals have been addressed. No one addresses any of the comments I made in the WP:ANI page. No one addresses the rebuttal's of any WP: Charges made. I see nothing by way of an explanation, for example, of the very last entry I made. Look at WP:ANI -> USS Liberty and you will see that while I have explained myself, we have little more then a collegiate diatribe about what I have to say, without addressing what I have to say.
Regarding another item you mention, I do not have a problem with the USS Liberty incident page as it stands. My concern is that it is missing commentary from the Moorer Report, which is what I am trying to correct.
Since I simply won't allow the exclusion of a valid report with valid references to remain off of the USS Liberty incident page. I will be adding it in yet again. I have gone out of my way re: WP:AGF, but none has been returned. Charges are made of WP:FRINGE, WP:UNDUE, WP:NPOV and WP:CONSENSUS, all of which I have addressed. That none of the editors removing my entry care to my address my concerns is not my problem.
Lastly, claiming that meat or sock puppets may be involved in re-inserting my entries is inappropriate. It's good to know that there are others who feel that the USS Liberty page has room for improvement. I don't think they'd like to be referred to as meatpuppets or sockpuppets, however. Just because they agree with me and not with those deleting the entries doesn't make them meatpuppets or sockpuppets. It's just as easy for me to describe Justin A Kuntz, Narson or others removing my entries as meatpuppetts or sockpuppets, but that would be rude, which is why I have chosen not to do so. That's my attempt at WP:AGF. WorldFacts (talk) 17:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

WELL SAID WorldFacts --- it would be too easy to describe the so called "editors" who disagree as meatpuppets (and who knows maybe that's what they want). One does wonder if they are meat puppeting. In all factuality it remains that you very clearly provided multiple proper secondary sources all of which were summarily ignored and edited out by these "editors" (who also incorrectly applied WP:SYN to the sources). I see no policy violation.

What did Narson say in one of his rants ? Some nonsense about if there are gecko's you won't necessarily find dragons. Whatever ... WP:CHKUSER WP:MEATPUPPETUSER WP:SOCKPUPPETUSER. Geckos and Dragons abound !! --Henrywinklestein (talk) 04:07, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Lion King Semi-Protect

Thank you for protecting the Lion King article from vandalism. It is appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DrNegative (talkcontribs) 05:32, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: Red Bull Music Academy lectures, and Lorenzo43

Hi Ed - I'm a little late to the party as GraemeL has dealt with it but since you asked for my opinion I would say, like Graeme, it's pretty clear link spamming. If the editor had only been updating links I would have looked further to see who added them originally (since we often find someone comes back to update links they originally spammed) but since s/he was also adding new links and all edits were to do with that site that's fairly blatant to me. It's not the content of the link that's important with spamming - it's how they're getting into the encyclopedia. Spamming is (IMHO) disastrous from an NPOV perspective. If a link looks like it might significantly improve an article and its been spammed I sometimes move it to the talk page so a reasonable editorial judgment can be made by regular editors of the article. -- SiobhanHansa 17:32, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. Since GraemeL took care of answering the COIN posting, I will leave things as they are. It does not seem that Lorenzo43 was editing in good faith. EdJohnston (talk) 18:59, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Just a heads up

As one of the admins who was involved in my WP:3RR block case, I am alerting you that Biophys has entered evidence into an active arbcom case, which you can view here. The decision was made to block myself for WP:3RR, but only warn Biophys, even presented with evidence of breaches of WP:BLP and violation of WP:3RR. I have no idea who did or didn't make that decision, but this will now be asked about on the arbcom. It was mentioned at the above 3RR case that the decision is harmonious, and on my talk page that the discussion is a relic (for the record, I stand by all of my comments in that particular section). As one can now see, it is not harmonious, nor is it a relic. I was going to post a message on your talk page before the arbcom development asking as to why there is "one rule for some, and one rule for others" and enter into discussion that way, but given the arbcom development it is now necessary for me to address this, what has now become an issue, on the arbcom. Sorry about that, but I don't believe there is any other way, and do not perceive this as a revenge or anything of the like because it is not, I am actually trying to sort these problems out outside of resolution structures. Anyway, this is just a heads up to advise you that I will be entering into evidence at the arbcom the relevant 3RR case and everything thereafter, so you may wish to put it on your watchlist, and respond to it if and when appropriate. Cheers, --Russavia 18:40, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. EdJohnston (talk) 19:01, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Edit warring at Diplomatic missions of Ireland

Hi - I got this message from you:

Hello Redking7. If you keep on reverting the article itself, without waiting for a Talk page consensus, you and your counterpart may both be blocked, per WP:Edit war. Please work toward a consensus, and wait for it to form. Bring in outsiders if you wish. EdJohnston (talk) 20:46, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

There have only been two participants who have given a view so far hence "consensus" has not been possible as usually I would just accept the usual head count, even if the answer was plainly wrong. The dispute is about whether to list Taiwan on the list of the diplomatic missions of Ireland. The position at the moment is that I have quoted the Irish Government stating that Ireland:

  • quote "recognises the Government of the PRC as the sole legitimate government of China";
  • quote "does not maintain diplomatic relations with Taiwan";
  • quote " no inter-Governmental contact between the two sides "; and
  • quote " Taiwan’s official status is that of a Province of China".

User: Kransky (the other protaganist) does not dispute the authenticity of these quotes but insists that the Article should:

  • list the "Republic of China" or "Taiwan" as a "country" that Ireland has a diplomatic mission to when this is clearly not accurate.

I think the default position for the page should be that Taiwan should be left out (in light of the above Government statement - so I have reverted it once again....Should User: Kransky's opinion outweigh a fully sourced Government statement - Is what I have done bad - or does the quotation above count for more than User: Kransky's opinion? Bit of a deadlock. I am bringing this to you - an outsider. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 21:01, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

You should wait for a consensus on the article's Talk page. (You yourself are persuaded, but that is not enough). The dispute seems very subtle to me, and perhaps not important, but it's the Talk page of the article itself that matters. If Redking7Kransky doesn't yet agree, you don't have a consensus. Go to a relevant WikiProject if you think that others might have an opinion. EdJohnston (talk) 21:07, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Redking7 (talk) 21:31, 17 November 2008 (UTC) (me) was the one who listed the above post. We do not have consensus. I am disappointed that you think it is a "very subtle" difference. I can't see how you could draw that conclusion. I would welcome your views on the talk page allt he same. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 21:31, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
I fixed the name of the other participant. As an admin who is trying to enforce the rules on edit-warring, I can't participate. The two of you may both be blocked if you don't work toward a consensus, but simply continue to revert. Try WP:3O if you want a third opinion. EdJohnston (talk) 22:30, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
I have outlined the dispute on the category page, and have placed an alert in the international relations project page. The onus is on Redking7 to deliver a consensus - not a straw poll - a consensus. If he has not delivered one within a decent time I will revert the article back to what it was before it was changed. EdJohnston: is this reasonable? Kransky (talk) 08:34, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Revert wars don't advance Misplaced Pages. If this point is truly important, it is surprising you can't find even a single other editor who wants to comment. Admins who just see a two-person revert war going on forever are unlikely to be sympathetic. Misplaced Pages:Third opinion is worth trying. My own opinion doesn't count, but have you considered the possibility that Ireland wants to have their cake and eat it? I.e. they may want the practical advantages of having a mission in Taiwan, while still officially claiming that they don't have diplomatic relations? If that's what is happening, a certain amount of doubletalk is to be expected. EdJohnston (talk) 16:35, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Broadly, I think you have set yourself low standards. Thats a pity. Nevertheless, as an Administrator, is canvassing by **User: Kransky ok? See:

I suppose it may help User: Kransky get the "consensus" he desires. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 01:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Per WP:CANVASS, neutrally-worded invitations to third parties are OK, unless the editors are selected due to their known opinions on a topic. It would be better to file an WP:RFC, though. If you believe that Kransky's invitation to the other editors is not sufficiently neutral, how would you word it yourself? EdJohnston (talk) 02:07, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Koov

Kiddn (talk · contribs). Colchicum (talk) 22:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Done. EdJohnston (talk) 23:06, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Your comment on my talk page

Thanks for the comment. I really am at a loss here. You sum up the way I feel quite well. Edit warring is not just an act of reverting or undoing an edit (continuously over the course of time), but I tend to look at the users general behavior that is surrounding the situation. In this case, there was very little being done to resolve the dispute. There was no formal request for any sort of dispute resolution. Instead, we have a few editors who have been reverting each other for a couple of months it seems. Surely not productive. Even page protection didn't work here, so I felt that blocking was the next thing needed to try and get these guys to actively discuss this, and stop edit warring. It would be proven that many editors disagreed with the block, so I unblocked them. I still feel the block was the best course of action, but I am, of course, open to the possibility of being disagreed with by others, and when that happens, as it did here, I'm willing to disregard my personal feelings and acknowledge the community as a whole. Thanks again for the comment. - Rjd0060 (talk) 21:30, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Moors 3RR

Yes I wasn't aware of the 3RR Rule I will be more considerate in the future.--Gnosis (talk) 23:13, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Punnett square

I think "The higher the percentage of vandal edits, the greater the need for protection" pretty much covers it—common sense takes care of the rest :) Thanks for your tireless work at the noticeboards, by the way. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 16:26, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Request

Hi, this is Bob calling about a request. I noticed you took out the Gigablast page, which was unnecessary. Can you please put it back? Signed Bob. --99.145.25.51 (talk) 18:50, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

You must be referring to my removal of Gigablast from List of search engines on August 14. The article on Gigablast was deleted per Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Gigablast. The nominator argued that Gigablast was a Non-notable search engine, presented in an article that reads like marketing collateral. Dismally fails WP:RS (all of the references in the nominated article circle back to the Gigablast site). If Gigablast has been covered by any reliable sources since that time, you could present the new sources for consideration. EdJohnston (talk) 21:06, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

User:Krzyzowiec AN/I thread

I see that you gave this user a block in July for edit warring. I am not familiar with the details of whatever transpired then, but in case you have something to add, there is a thread regarding him at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Krzyzowiec. Thanks, Nsk92 (talk) 15:03, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for you help at User_talk:Randolph_Polasek... a polite and professional approach. Noah 16:51, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Hasan di Tiro

Hello Esemono. Long-term edit-warring is still edit warring. I have full-protected the article for a week. Please explain the current points under dispute on the article's Talk page, so that others can understand. If you join in Talk, and the IP will not, there might perhaps be a case for semi-protection. But lately both you and the IP do little but revert.EdJohnston (talk) 16:34, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I have put my arguments on the talk page. People have agreed, third opinions given and a consensus reached. Yet the IP refuses any arguments that disagree with his own personal research, refuses to provide any sources that back up his claims, and refuses to respect the consensus. Basically I'm just reversing vandalism and the IP, who uses a variety of IP sock puppets to avoid 3R, copies my Edit Summaries statements, ignores the consensus and adds his own POV edits. -- Esemono (talk) 23:39, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
The Talk page is confusing for newcomers. Perhaps you could write a few sentences and summarize what was discussed on the Talk page for the last 3 months? Try giving the arguments for both sides. Some of the Talk threads seem to have petered out with no resolution. What's the answer about grandson versus great-grandson? Ref. 1 just says the older man was Hasan di Tiro's ancestor. EdJohnston (talk) 23:49, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I did summarize it in the ethnic exclusivism/chauvinism is the sole reason section. And two links that say he is his grandson:
-"Its Founding father was Hasan di Tiro, grandson of Teungku Chik di Tiro" -Pg 86 - Terror, Insurgency, and State: Ending Protracted Conflicts
-"he was the grandson of Teungku Chik di Tiro" -Pg 39 Resources and Rebellion in Aceh , Indonesia
-Esemono (talk) 12:06, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
What more can I do? He refuses to acknowledge information from article sources and continues to add his own research. When I try and reverse the changes, he just reverts them using various IP sock puppets. -- Esemono (talk) 07:14, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Koov

Rolsb (talk · contribs). Colchicum (talk) 01:49, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. EdJohnston (talk) 18:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

RedKing7

Following several reverts - which led to his suspension for 24 hours

  • I have repeatedly explained to RedKing why Taiwanese representative offices are included in Diplomatic Missions by sending country articles
  • I sought his views about why he thinks they should not be included, or included in a way with a disclaimer that I considered inappropriate for an article that focusses on Ireland's overseas representation (as opposed to recognition issues per se)
  • The central thrust of his argument was Ireland's non-recognition of Taiwan, an issue that no other editor refuted, but which was not pertinent to the debate.
  • Other contributors and myself explained the difference between missions and recognition, none of which seemed to register with him as he counter-argued with non sequitors
  • I then invited him to propose a change to this policy (according a stricter definition of what would go in, which would require the wholesale re-editing of 100+ articles)
  • He did not bother to seek a consensus on this change, so I sought feedback from users. He raised a complaint of canvassing, which was not upheld.
  • There was a variety of feedback, none of which was favourable to RedKing's suggestions, and two (excluding my own) which were negative.
  • I then proposed a comprimise based on his disclaimer and another writer's contribution, that would (a) go in the front part of the article as opposed to sticking out like a sore thumb (and inconsistent with the formatting of the other 200 articles), and (b) be a condense paraphrase of what RedKing7 wanted to say (Ireland, which does not recognise the Republic of China, maintains a representative office in Taipei.)
  • RedKing7 considered my wording was "vague" and changed it back to his preference.
  • I have now taken this to RfC, but I am pessimistic he will be adaptable given it has been discussed twice.

My observations

  • This debate has continued since 28 October and should have been resolved weeks ago.
  • RedKing7's rejection of a proposal that for all intents and purposes is what he wants strongly suggests he is being disruptive, or even Trolling.
  • RedKing's behaviour here, and in other debates I have observed, indicates he either has a pattern of confrontational behaviour, or a profound inability to comprehend counter-arguments.

My request

Thanks Kransky (talk) 09:56, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Please follow the steps of WP:Dispute resolution. It's good that you were able to bring in some other editors. I don't see any cause for admins to intervene. Your comment here wasn't very civil. I suggest you reword to avoid commenting on the other editor's state of mind. EdJohnston (talk) 06:41, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the rewording. EdJohnston (talk) 16:21, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Re:AN3

Hello McJeff. I posted a question for you in your most recent 3RR complaint about Veecort. EdJohnston (talk) 06:53, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I posted on the AN3 page, but I wanted to ask you for further clarification. Veecort has admitted to canvassing off-wiki for support and acknowledged that 70.190.149.252 is a meatpuppet. While Veecort has agreed to stop edit warring, his meatpuppet remains active. I've never dealt with meatpuppetry before - how is this handled? McJeff (talk) 10:08, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
I proposed a course of action in Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Veecort. EdJohnston (talk) 06:49, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Koov

Khoin (talk · contribs). Colchicum (talk) 16:16, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

OK. EdJohnston (talk) 18:25, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Harassment by User:Theserialcomma

I'm sure you remember my dispute with Theserialcomma, and are aware that it's one of the reasons I decided to retire from wikipedia.

That being said, he is still after me.

Would you care to warn him about this? McJeff (talk) 03:27, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

The harassment continues. . I seek no contact with this editor, but he is trying desperately to pick a fight with me. Can something please be done about this? McJeff (talk) 10:45, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Judge Florentino V. Floro, Jr.

Hi, Sir! May I please ask if you will still be willing to consider re-opening the appeal at the opportune time amid the intense Wiki and off-wiki personal battle (legal) between me, User:TheCoffee, User:Cma and Max? I admit that I had filed off-Wiki administrative school confidential case (verbal and still undergoing probe) against these 3 above, with reservation to file the Articles 19, 20 & 21, inter alia, of the our New Civil Code lawsuits for damages in our Courts. This is my legal right which is respected by Misplaced Pages. I admit that since last year I cursed these 3 and the entire Filipino Wikipedian community. I stand by my position. I thank all of you who have had faith in me amid all these bickering. My emails is judgefloro@yahoo.com I state that I never used any sockpuppet or alter amid accusations. I noticed that there is an ongoing multiple registration in order to create a case against me. That will fail. If you please desire to reply, then, please, to my email, or here, since my talk page is protected, I do not know if you can do so there.

God Bless your family and the entire non-Filipino Misplaced Pages community. Sincerely, Judge Florentino V. Floro, Jr. (I am posting here at Netopia, Bulacan, with the IP address of this business cafe).--124.106.80.18 (talk) 07:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

ANI comments

when i saw User:McJeff's post to ANI, begging for the community to ban a newbie User:Veecort, who has since apologized and wants the opportunity to make amends, i became a bit frustrated. see, i remember that on McJeff's userpage, in an edit summary, he referred to me as a "faggot and a tard". (he didn't name me directly, but the context of the time and situation made it obvious to whom he was speaking.) McJeff was never punished, which is fine; and then he 'retired.' Okay. No problems so far. except for one thing, he requested his userpage deleted before his retirement, which also deleted the history of his userpage -- and now McJeff is back again editing without any record of his userpage misdeeds. To some people, it might look as if he's exploited some loophole to escape scrutiny for his previous actions. So, i think User:McJeff's userpage should be restored for one simple reason. according to Misplaced Pages:User page ]: An administrator will then delete (a user page) after checking that the page does not contain evidence of policy violations that may need to be kept. since the page had blatant evidence of policy violations (homophobic attacks and other incivility), and since he's still editing, then i see no reason why he should freely be able to escape scrutiny from the community. cause next time mcjeff has some sort of altercation that he brings to the public, the average wikipedians reading the reports should also be able to review McJeff's own history, which i believe should be part of the whole decision making process. it's only fair that an editor filing a complaint on ANI (and other boards) should have their history, as well as the history of the person they're reporting, scrutinized, so that we can all see the entire picture. what this has to do with my reputation, i have no idea. i thought i made a comment fairly on topic, stating that veecort should be given a second chance - which seems to be the consensus. i also mentioned that mcjeff's history should also be taken into account, which it currently cannot be, because it's hidden due to a loophole. mcjeff has currently reverted my comments to ANI two times, which i don't think is appropriate. i want my thoughts to be heard by the community, not censored by McJeff under the guise of harassment and personal attacks. he's been blocked for removing people's comments before, possibly by you. my question to you is, do i have the right to make these comments to ANI? is this harassment and personal attacks? or should the reporter on ANI also put themselves up to legitimate scrutiny (the userpage stuff is true, and relevant, so how could it be an attack?). Theserialcomma (talk) 07:51, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

another thing, ed. i was going to leave this other point alone, since i assumed that mcjeff was retired, as his talk page stated such; however, since he is editing again, and since you've commented to me on my talk page about another issue with mcjeff, please look at this ] and comment please. i want to put a stop to these accusations from mcjeff so they do not occur again. Theserialcomma (talk) 10:45, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

User:Fru23

Hi. Do you know if a CU has been done on this editor? Viriditas (talk) 12:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

No RFCU has been filed, according to these search results. Do you think he is the sock of some other editor? EdJohnston (talk) 15:10, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. I'm not sure. Viriditas (talk)

Combat Survival

] just recreated this and Elite Combat Fitness. I've deleted the first as a recreation of a recently deleted article, does the 2nd ring a bell? dougweller (talk) 21:34, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

The common element might be Moni Aizik, supposed to be the founder of both schools. I've nominated Elite Combat Fitness for deletion via WP:PROD. The article on Moni Aizik looks shaky as well. If the prod on this one is contested, I recommend a combined AfD for both articles. Since Combat Survival was recreated after an AfD, I have salted the title. EdJohnston (talk) 21:53, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Example editor appears to be back

The editor I had used as an example in the AN3 discussion, 72.219.132.5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), appears to be back as 72.219.128.131 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). He added back some of the copyrighted material that he'd been previously edit-warring over. I'll request page protection if he appears with a different ip. --Ronz (talk) 17:33, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I've semi-protected the Telepresence article one month due to the promotional editing and copyvios, by an editor who won't respond on Talk. EdJohnston (talk) 17:44, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Even better. Thanks! --Ronz (talk) 17:53, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

3RR etc. on New Kadampa Tradition article

Fair enough. I was unaware previously of the 3RR. I am willing to undo reverts, but the article has since been edited multiple times by other users - afaik reverting my last undo would also remove these later edits, would it not?

I can't find the specific ANI discussion - could you provide a link to it? I In my naivety I was acting to correct some false information that I believe is being maliciously added to the article, but I do understand that edit-warring is not desirable, and I'll try to refrain from this. If you're looking into it, you'll see what was going on, with Kt66 - I don't think I need to say much on it, and I'll accept the Admins' direction on it. Atisha's cook (talk) 00:03, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Replied on your Talk page. EdJohnston (talk) 02:48, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Ed for having a look and making a note with respect to this. --Kt66 (talk) 13:01, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Lucia de Berk

Have you noted what was done today on this article? Also see this and this. I've reverted it again and will leave another note on the talk page. What do you suggest to be done past this? Nothing new was added, no sourcing or changes, and this is a problem. Wildhartlivie (talk) 03:53, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I left a warning of possible admin action at User talk:Webmuize. EdJohnston (talk) 05:12, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to point out that User:Webmuize stated that he/she was "hired as the webmaster" at the website from which he or she may be linking, so there's a possible COI issue involved. Wildhartlivie (talk) 16:08, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
We should watch out for new material that seems excessively complimentary to the article subject. Let's see if he will work for consensus in the accepted way. Eventually we should try to cure the issues that led to the POV tag. I think Momoricks put the tag on because of a lack of citations. Maybe Webmuize can help us find Dutch citations. EdJohnston (talk) 16:46, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
She put it up because of that, but also because it did read as apologetic and defensive of her. It wasn't/isn't clear what de Berk's legal status is and it wasn't clear whether the facts in the article were valid or from a pro-support faction. But yes, it needs to be monitored. I'm glad you're watching as well. Wildhartlivie (talk) 01:28, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Trubbles

Re - interesting. I wasn't aware of that. Everyone on the North Irish Horse has forgoten it William M. Connolley (talk) 17:40, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Could you give us so information

Hi EdJohnston, thanks for your comments here, it was helpful. Could you clarify for us what the 1RR actually means? Is it 1RR a day or a week? This needs to be clear to editors, and since this is an area I edit in, it would really help. Just one more thing, if their is a breech of the 1RR AE imposed sanction, were should we report it? Should we go to AE or the Admin's who imposed it. I know AE can get very cluttered, and I've no wish to go there, full of bad memories. Thanks, --Domer48'fenian' 23:02, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Since Rlevse posted the latest update to the remedies in the Troubles case, it would be better to ask him what it means. If you see edit warring that appears to break an Arbcom sanction, you could post to WP:AN3 and mention the sanction. EdJohnston (talk) 01:19, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks EdJohnston, I'll ckeck it out with Rlevse. --Domer48'fenian' 09:00, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks...

... for semi-protecting my userpages -- Tinu Cherian - 06:42, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Assistance

81.155.47.47 came right off your block running and immediately made three POV edits, again refusing to use the talk page (and ignoring the concept in his edit summary). Best, A Sniper (talk) 15:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. EdJohnston (talk) 16:08, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

conflict with article and the unwillingness of editors to accept 3rd party sources

Hi Ed, you checked already a note I left some days before on the admin board regarding the NKT article. It looks like it is as hot as that of Scientology. What strikes me is that I commented again and again about 3rd party sources and gave excerpts of them etc but two editors remove again and again 3rd party sources to favour heavily WP:SPS by the organisation. I like to ask you to check the last edits by User:Atisha's cook and User:Truthbody on the NKT article, the latter may have violated the 3-times- revert-rule. What I can not understand is that the changes - eg to quote Clarke - were in a way the result of all the other editors, like emptymountains. With the present changes by Atisha/truthbody the article follows line by line only WP:SPS at the cost to exclude all other sources. I can also report this to the Admin board but wished to look for a soft way to solve this. thanks a lot, t --Kt66 (talk) 17:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Maybe the best is to revert it to a version, which includes at least some 3rd party sources, and then to block the complete article. --Kt66 (talk) 17:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
I can agree with the current revision although it may be accidental reverted to this by truthbody: the current revision of New Kadampa Tradition as edited by Truthbody (Talk | contribs) at 17:30, 2 December 2008. Maybe it is good to block it with this version. --Kt66 (talk)
There seems to be a very active discussion on the article's Talk page, in which you are participating. If you have doubts about the suitability of a source, you could ask at WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. If you disagree with a decision about the NKT article, you could open an article WP:RFC to bring in outside opinions. Contact me if you need help following the RFC instructions. EdJohnston (talk) 17:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
I believe that Kt66 has a conflict of interest (as can be found with his anti-NKT blogs and websites and comments all over the WWW, which he does nothing to hide). It seems he will not stop undoing the other editors' changes until he reverts the NKT article to his own POV, as it was largely before April of 2008. He will not listen to any other editor's reasons, he mainly ignores them, and repeats the same things over and over again on the talk pages. There are plenty of third-party sources in the NKT article -- it is not perfect, but it is vastly better and more wp:npov than it was when kt66 was the main editor (before others stepped in). There is a controversy section at kt66's request, and that is fine, but he seems to be aiming at making the whole article into a controversy, which is grossly misleading to the reader. There have been ad nauseam discussions with user kt66 over the past few weeks. Today he started a redundant article called prehistory of the NKT, which makes no sense given the material is already included in the NKT and Manjushri articles. He will not accept others POV at all. It is hard to know what to do to work with him. Please advise. (Truthbody (talk) 18:03, 2 December 2008 (UTC))
I have officially proposed that the Prehistory of the New Kadampa Tradition page be deleted, as it is mostly duplicate content from other Wiki articles and has many copyright violations, as demonstrated on the talk page under the heading "Content Forking?". Emptymountains (talk) 15:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
I must concur with Truthbody. There are now a number of editors engaged in trying to stop this one user, Kt66, from monopolising this and related articles and rewriting them to his own, highly-opinionated pov. Reasoning with him is almost impossible. He DOES have a very good knowledge of the WP Rulebook, though, it seems!
Atisha's cook (talk) 18:56, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Oops, I'm sorry, i may have accidentally reverted kt66's changes four times -- actually, I ended up accepting his version (with a suitable compromise suggested by a third editor), but I was unaware of the Wiki rule against reversions until I just looked it up, and so I overdid it. I know now and will be more careful in future. (Truthbody (talk) 19:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC))
Ha! Exact same thing happened to me!  :-D Only I had to be told about this 3RR rule... But I sympathise - this Kt66 drives a body to it.
Atisha's cook (talk) 19:25, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Please follow the steps of Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution if you all can't reach agreement on the Talk page. I don't see any reason why admins should intervene, at this point. Avoid WP:Edit warring. Use an WP:RFC if there is an intractable dispute. Since I'm not planning to take any action, it would be better to continue this discussion on the article Talk page. EdJohnston (talk) 19:44, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello, what gives?

Would you mind explaining to me why you did this behind my back? I thought the policies stated that you must contact the maker of the page before you do that, and you do not appear to have. Please answer on my talkpage. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 07:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Complain to the PROD nominator, User:Droliver. If you like, I can restore the article and it can take its chances at AfD. EdJohnston (talk) 14:52, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
That won't be necessary. Thank you, though. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 22:56, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

IP still at it

Still going... D.D.J.Jameson 23:47, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

  • Thanks for taking care of it. Would you mind reverting the diff I cited here? I hadn't considered that I might be up against 3RR rolling back disruption, so I don't want to make another reversion if I am. D.D.J.Jameson 23:55, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Done. EdJohnston (talk) 00:28, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the quick work. I have one further question for you. Do you feel I used my rollbacker tool properly here? It seemed more expedient than the longer way, after I'd figured out what the guy was doing, but if it was a misuse, I'd like to know, so I can make sure I'm using it properly. D.D.J.Jameson 00:31, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
I personally don't have any concerns about your use of rollback. The difficult case is when you are not 100% sure it is vandalism. In those cases it is better to use some other method. As soon as you think you are seeing vandalism or disruptive editing, it become reportable, and you should worry less about immediately removing the change, and more about whether it's being promptly reported. EdJohnston (talk) 01:58, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the input. I really mulled it over before I used the tool, since it wasn't as obvious a case of vandalism as rollbacker is normally used to combat. But after investigation, it seemed very clear what the guy had been doing, and as he had been very "busy", it seemed much more expedient, logical, and beneficial to the project to use the tool than to not use the tool. Are you saying that you agree with me on that view? D.D.J.Jameson 02:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, it is puzzling whether his change in Lyndon Johnson's cause of death was plain vandalism or not. In case of doubt, it would be better not to use rollback. There are other ways of undoing a change that are almost as quick. EdJohnston (talk) 03:10, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Actually, when I was evaluating whether or not to use the tool, it wasn't so much any one individual edit that I looked at, but his edits in toto that seemed like pretty blatant disruption. Perhaps it was a bit of rule breaking on my part, but I think that it was a net benefit to the project to do it the way I did. Also, you said there are "other ways" that are nearly as simple. Are you talking about the automated tools? If so, I've yet to get my mind around how to use them, so if you'd care to explain them a bit, I'd appreciate it. D.D.J.Jameson 12:34, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm not much of one for automation either. I've had some bad bot experiences perpetrated against me, you might say, and haven't always had the best experience with Twinklers either. Thanks again for the feedback. D.D.J.Jameson 19:23, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

An idea!

This is regarding the current situation regarding Che Guevara (photo), i.e. the two blocked editors and the proposed solutions.

I have refrained from editing anything about Che Guevara since User:Redthoreau entered the scene and took possession of the Che Guevara articles, although I still have them on my watchlist. I have no interest in getting involved now, as Redthoreau is far too aggressive. I do not know the other editor involved in this dispute but I can sympathize with a complaint that 61 quotations is too many for an article! I frequently review articles for GAN, and there is no quality standard that would allow that at Misplaced Pages!

Do you think that a solution might be to get an outside editor's view of Che Guevara (photo) for a quality review of such issues? Redthoreau does not allow quality input and never submits his Che Guevara articles to any kind of outside input, such as Peer Review or WP:GAN. There are several very good editors that I am sure that neither Redthoreau nor the other editor has had any contact with. For example, User talk:Malleus Fatuorum and User talk:Geometry guy basically run WP:GAN and both are excellent editors.

I experienced Redthoreau when he took over the Che Guevara article, which at the time was a Featured article. Because of the massive changes he made to the article, I took the article to Feature article review and ultimately its FA golden star was removed. See: Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/Che Guevara/archive1. To his credit, Redthoreau modified his attitude during the FAR, when forced to deal with knowledgeable editors. That is why I am suggesting this alternative now, rather than an RFC, which I am pretty sure will not be helpful to the article. User:Jbmurray, who helped out Redthoreau trying to fix the Che Guevara article, also might be willing to get involved.

I am suggesting this because Redthoreau will continue to dominate the articles, so perhaps he could at least learn to produce articles of more quality. Perhaps a good editor aware of article quality could act as a mediator. If User talk:Malleus Fatuorum were willing, he would be excellent. He is not only a very good edtior but he is tough and would not be intimidated by Redthoreau. Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 00:49, 6 December 2008 (UTC)