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Revision as of 03:03, 19 February 2009 editMeowy (talk | contribs)8,706 edits →File:Azerbaijan Democratic Republic 1918-1920 Map.jpg← Previous edit Revision as of 03:06, 19 February 2009 edit undoFedayee (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users6,870 edits →File:Azerbaijan Democratic Republic 1918-1920 Map.jpg: + voteNext edit →
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** Have you ever seen ] which just recently from the ADR article when Baku87 replaced it with his self-made map ?. Btw. can you please exoplain from where you draw on the "generally known" ADR borders? And about which borders do you speak at all? --] (]) 09:21, 18 February 2009 (UTC) ** Have you ever seen ] which just recently from the ADR article when Baku87 replaced it with his self-made map ?. Btw. can you please exoplain from where you draw on the "generally known" ADR borders? And about which borders do you speak at all? --] (]) 09:21, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
***That map was created by ], using certain Andrew Andersen as a source, and of course it is unreliable, as Andersen is a self-published source. ]] 11:51, 18 February 2009 (UTC) ***That map was created by ], using certain Andrew Andersen as a source, and of course it is unreliable, as Andersen is a self-published source. ]] 11:51, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
'''Strong delete:''' And if it is kept, I'm going to report this in the fringe theory noticeboard, Grandmaster attempt to mislead others by twisting maps should not go unoticed. It is basically the same users who wanted Anderson maps deleted. The map used by Baku87, is a map prepared by the republic of Azerbaijan, and placed on the site of several of their embassy. Few examples include these. , , . The original can be found here too. . I question those users interest here, when they are attempting to restrict the deletion of a fringe theory position maintained by the republic of Azerbaijan, which recently created and distributed those maps on several of their sites. The timing of Baku creation of the map here on Misplaced Pages is then fishy. We need more users uninvolved with AA subjects to vote. And with all saddness Moreschi is absent. This action should be kept for the arbitrators' viewing. No further comment required. - ] (]) 03:06, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


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Revision as of 03:06, 19 February 2009

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February 14

Maine_Turnpike_logo.png

File:Maine_Turnpike_logo.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by 718_Bot (notify | contribs).

File:Azerbaijan map comparison.jpg

File:Azerbaijan map comparison.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Baku87 (notify | contribs).
This map has de-facto recognition. If you imply that we should delete all non de-jure regonized borders, then perhaps we should start with NKR maps first? Baku87 (talk) 19:37, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
NKR maps differentiate between recognized and unrecognized, your maps are simply nationalistic ejaculation. VartanM (talk) 22:23, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

File:Azerbaijan Democratic Republic 1918-1920 Map.jpg

File:Azerbaijan Democratic Republic 1918-1920 Map.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Baku87 (notify | contribs).
Your accusations are false, it is clear to everyone that Grandmaster provided a objective source, if you have missed this part of the discussion then please try to keep more attention before reaching to any conclusion, see the map here. Baku87 (talk) 13:37, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Maybe Baku87 should actually look at the map. It shows the WW1 period and territory ceded to Ottoman Turkey (NOT to Azerbaijan) after its invasion of Armenia. The two treaties that ceded those territories became void after Turkey's surrender. Meowy 03:25, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me that these arguments are not for the deletion of the map from Misplaced Pages, but for the removal of the map from articles. This should be done using the talk pages of any articles containing the map. Get the map removed from all articles and the map will be deleted as a matter of course, yes? Because it is in no articles, I vote for its deletion. Meowy 21:45, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Strong delete: And if it is kept, I'm going to report this in the fringe theory noticeboard, Grandmaster attempt to mislead others by twisting maps should not go unoticed. It is basically the same users who wanted Anderson maps deleted. The map used by Baku87, is a map prepared by the republic of Azerbaijan, and placed on the site of several of their embassy. Few examples include these. , , . The original can be found here too. . I question those users interest here, when they are attempting to restrict the deletion of a fringe theory position maintained by the republic of Azerbaijan, which recently created and distributed those maps on several of their sites. The timing of Baku creation of the map here on Misplaced Pages is then fishy. We need more users uninvolved with AA subjects to vote. And with all saddness Moreschi is absent. This action should be kept for the arbitrators' viewing. No further comment required. - Fedayee (talk) 03:06, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Wa 2000.JPG

File:Wa 2000.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Ominae (notify | contribs).

MGP-15 SMG.jpg

File:MGP-15 SMG.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Ominae (notify | contribs).

BM 59 rifle.jpg

File:BM 59 rifle.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Ominae (notify | contribs).

Petewright.jpg

File:Petewright.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Quercusrobur (notify | contribs).

GoldFivePound1839.jpeg

File:GoldFivePound1839.jpeg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Hephaestos (notify | contribs).
  • The coin itself is clearly PD due to age. However, photos of three-dimensional objects acquire their own copyright. No source has been given for the photo. I guess we could very loosely argue that this is PD-ART, because the face of the coin is almost 2D. Any thoughts? Papa November (talk) 10:52, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

College-green-aerial-thumbnail.jpg

File:College-green-aerial-thumbnail.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Mav (notify | contribs).
Delay - What form of evidence is needed? Would a copy / paste of the permission email on the image talk page be OK? --mav (talk) 14:48, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
It's probably OK to forward the permission email on to permissions-en@wikimedia.org and pop a {{OTRS pending}} tag on the image description page. There's more information here Papa November (talk) 18:50, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Serp.png

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted as G7 by Peripitus (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:18, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

File:Serp.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jehochman (notify | contribs).
  • "Educational presentation and critical commentary on search engine results and attempts to influence them. This image shows Google's universal search results. It includes text, images, video, and paid listings. This illustrates the potential complexity of search results pages.". Invalid rationale, images from Star Wars are not discussed in this article. ViperSnake151 21:50, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Delete per my previous comments here. I'm a bit upset that nothing has been done about this yet. — CharlotteWebb 22:49, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep to avoid damaging the encyclopedia with pedantic actions. I needed a picture of a search engine results page, so I Googled the first thing that came to mind (A Darth Vader action figure was standing on my desk at the time). This is classic fair use. The picture shows how somebody can Google an arbitrary topic, and get search results that include text, video and pictures. The image resolution is very low. There's no commercial damage to the copyright holder, and so on. Please stop these silly power games and go write an article. If you'd like to replace the image with something you prefer, I really don't mind at all as long as you choose a replacement that is suitably informative. I'd change it myself, except that somebody would probably shout at me for changing the image while this discussion was pending. Jehochman 04:51, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Did you have to google for something where you knew the top part of search result would be mostly non-free images? Do you not see how gratuitous that looks? How do you know you "needed a picture"? — CharlotteWebb 11:50, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
      • In the real world virtually all content is copyrighted. It would be very, very difficult to construct a search the only brings up free content in the results. Any search results page we might choose to illustrate universal search would most likely include fair use content. There is no equally informative, free replacement for this image. Jehochman 13:41, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
        • "Serps" are pretty formulaic. If you've seen one, you've seen them all. If you need a picture of a "serp" it would be easy to snap a real winner for Commons if you use free search engine software and search for something other than Star Wars photos. Or you could use an html editor to produce a page with 10–20 completely fake search results. It would be completely free and not convey any less information (as Darth Vader and the Google logo are completely superfluous at the moment). — CharlotteWebb 17:06, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
          • Actually, SERPs vary quite a bit from one to another. I think your proposal to create a fake page shows that you don't know what you are talking about and seem not to be interested in serious discussion. If you read the article, you might learn that search engine optimization targets the major search engines, Google foremost among them. It completely makes sense to show a picture of a Google SERP with all of its potential complexity. Jehochman 14:06, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
  • ← You may be quick to accuse me of pedantry and trolling but you have not explained how this image illustrates the techniques or effects of SEO. It does illustrate how to find Star Wars pictures on the internet, but that doesn't have much to do with SEO. You mention that SEO people primarily target Google. While I don't doubt that for a second, I don't agree that this is an adequate rationale for including a random Google screenshot. I know I could say that hackers primarily target computers running Microsoft Windows (which is probably true also), but a picture of the Windows desktop wouldn't help the reader understand this, not unless it illustrated the act of hacking a Windows machine, or identified a particular Windows security hole, or showed what a Windows screen might look like after the computer had been hacked. The closest relationship I can see here is that the Google image suggests that one could potentially use SEO tactics to manipulate what pages appear when users search for "Darth Vader". This angle could work (see WP:NFCC#8 "significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic") if you include before and after SERPs to illustrate a change—attributable to SEO—in the search results. — CharlotteWebb 15:51, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
    • It's a featured article. Go read it. SERPS are the target of SEO activities. It makes sense to show one in an article. To those who disagree, discussion about the content of the article would be appropriate. Attempting to delete several images from the article on flimsy grounds is needlessly provocative. When you engage in provocation, you should expect less than friendly responses. Jehochman 16:05, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
      • Should I expect you to insult my intelligence while not answering any of the questions (like I'm stupid for even asking)? I'm not trying to provoke you, but let me make a few things clear: 1. Image policy may be "flimsy" but not enough to waive it for FAs. 2. I have read the article. 3. The images didn't contribute to my understanding of it. I have suggested several alternative ways to illustrate this article, depending on whether you'd rather produce SERP screenshots that can be defended under fair use policy—helping the reader understand SEO, what it is, how it works, etc.—or ones containing only free content which need not illustrate anything. So far you've assumed bad faith and mocked every idea I've offered you. — CharlotteWebb 17:13, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
        • Disrupting a featured article by deleting the lead image is not a way to get people to assume good faith. If the roles were reversed, I'd go to the article talk page, express concerns, and then suggest suitable replacement images. Jehochman 21:16, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
          • Where do you get these accusations? Nobody is disrupting or threatening to disrupt your article, or to "damage the encyclopedia" as you suggested earlier. It's a fine article and it does improve my understanding of SEO, but the screenshot you have chosen does not. You can disagree all you want but stop framing this as a personal dispute. I'm only stating my belief that this image fails criteria 1 and 8 of fair use policy on the basis that just showing what a SERP looks like doesn't show an example of SEO or help readers understand how it's done, and that one does not need to use non-free content to show readers what a SERP looks like. I would further argue that it violates the spirit of 3(a) "minimal use" due to the embedment of Darth Vader. While I'll admit the exact wording is less clear-cut, to me this aspect seems comparable to choosing a non-free picture of a celebrity wearing a T-shirt with another non-free picture on it, as it needlessly multiplies the number of copyright holders one must address when defending one's use of the image (while not furthering the intended purpose of using it). — CharlotteWebb 15:58, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Defendable in SERP although I would suggesting choosing a search term that doesn't result in so much lucasarts IP coming up. I suggest "abrams". SEO is more problematical. The image doesn't show any obvious example of SEO and the article doesn't talk about it. Might be able to defend File:Google Bomb Miserable Failure.png in SEO though.Geni 19:56, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
    • I am fine with replacing the image with any search that shows a variety of search results: text, image, video, maps, products, news. Any search that returns varied content would do. However, I'd prefer a discussion at the article talk page rather than this heavy handed deletion process. Jehochman 21:16, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
      • I agree that changing it to a gallery of Abrams battle tanks would be an improvement as these are likely to be be public domain U.S. Army photos (we can replace any that aren't), but it would still be decorative in the SEO article (that would be fine if the screenshot could in some way be made completely free). I noticed there was a discussion on the article talk page (see Talk:Search engine optimization#images) where the image use was defended by discrediting the complainant, appealing to the featured article process, and abdicating the burden of proof. I don't know whether there is a page on which we could seek the opinion of image policy experts, but that should probably be the next step. I'm beginning to think an RFC might be productive but I realize that it would—while less "heavy-handed"—it might over-correct by being too bureaucratic so if you don't want me to do that, I won't. — CharlotteWebb 15:58, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
        • I am fine with anybody replacing the image with another one that is less copyright challenged and equally or more informative. Changes could be discussed on the talk page if there are any doubts. That would be the first step before any RFC. It is my belief that every article should have some pictures. Misplaced Pages may be burned to CD or printed and distributed to kids in Africa who have never used Google. We should not assume that something is so commonplace that everyone has seen it. Jehochman 16:37, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
          • Alright no RFC then. I think we both know this isn't about familiarity with a specific brand, but do you raise an interesting paradox; I probably wouldn't know where to begin explaining SEO to someone who's never used the internet. They'd probably need to read other articles first, but apparently the Misplaced Pages-on-CD releases do strip out non-free images. I'm guessing this is so they can be exported to countries whose copyright law does not allow material to be used without permission of the copyright holder (or allows it to a much lesser extent than in the U.S.). Whatever the reason it is something to keep in mind when thinking of the children in Liberia or Sierra Leone or any of the twenty other African countries where English is widely spoken (that is, not to make the article depend heavily on something your target audience might not see). Of course one could always distribute a parallel "deluxe edition" at their own peril, in fact for the sake of those kids I hope somebody does (as long as they disavow any direct affiliation with Misplaced Pages). After all, breaking laws is the sometimes the most effective way to get them changed. — CharlotteWebb 17:40, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Delete as replaceable by a screenshot with fewer copyrighted images. Stifle (talk) 15:13, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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