Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 03:32, 3 November 2005

In order to remain listed at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute with a single user, not different disputes or multiple users. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~~~~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: {insert UTC timestamp with 23:36, 16 October 2005 (UTC)}), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is: 12:26, 27 December 2024 (UTC).

• (FuelWagon | talk | contributions)

Users should only edit one summary or view, other than to endorse.

Statement of the dispute

FuelWagon is often hostile towards editors that disagree with him, which results in an unpleasant editing environment. He also has a tendency to make disputes personal rather than focus on the content.

Description

FuelWagon has been an editor on Misplaced Pages since April 2005. After reverting warring on Terri Schiavo for several months, he was eventually blocked on 12 July 2005 by User:Ed Poor for 40 hours "unrepentant personal attacks" block log. I first encountered him on Misplaced Pages:Words to avoid, where he was openly hostile to editors who disagreed with his opinion (he was seeking to eliminate the use of the phrase "conspiracy theory"). More recently he's displayed similar behavior at Terrorism and Misplaced Pages:Request for comment.

Note about the reason for this RfC

FuelWagon implied in his response below that this RfC was the result of comments he made in Zephram Stark's RfC. This is incorrect, as I have explained to FuelWagon several times .

This RfC was the due to FuelWagon's hostile behavior towards multiple editors over an extended period of time. His comments on Zephram's RfC did prompt me to inquire why he posted there. I also stated "FYI, I am considering an RfC to address your hostility against multiple editors on multiple pages. I've personally asked you several times to cease the hostile attitude, but that doesn't appear to have worked. I'm asking you once again to be more civil and not create or exacerbate tension between editors."

FuelWagon's implication that this RfC is only about a few comments he made on another RfC couldn't be further from the truth. A large number of diffs have already been provided below; the vast majority of which have nothing to do with Zephram's RfC. Carbonite | Talk 13:23, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

This RfC was brought in accordance with the description on Misplaced Pages:Request for comment (I've emphasized several points):

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment is the open part of the dispute resolution process, which seeks community input regarding specific topical, policy, and personality disputes. Ultimately, the content of Misplaced Pages is determined by making progress toward a community consensus. However, the size of Misplaced Pages prevents community members from actively following every development. As a result, sometimes it's useful to request broader opinions from the rest of the community.

FuelWagon has stated several times that I "threatened" him with this RfC. However, given his extensive editing of the RfC policy page, he's well aware that RfCs are not a punitive measure. I have no intention of using this RfC as anything other than a means to obtain community input. Carbonite | Talk 20:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Evidence of disputed behavior

(Provide diffs. Links to entire articles aren't helpful unless the editor created the entire article. Edit histories also aren't helpful as they change as new edits are performed.)

1. "Moron. Republican held senate majority for 6 of clinton's years. That is a simple fact. even if you whitewash it, the assert goes later. rewrote it."
2. Implies that a revert of his edit was due to "POV pushing"
3. After Slim Virgin provides a reason for the revert, FuelWagon's comment ends with "OK, that excuse didn't work, time to shift tactics and come up with a completely different one."
4. Carbonite questions the inclusion of the quote by asking why a notable activist such as Chomsky should be quoted, but not another such as Sean Penn. FuelWagon again ends his comment with the sarcastic "Would you care to try again? Perhaps you can compare Noam Chomsky to Paris Hilton."
5. Carbonite responds by saying "Once again, please tone down your hostility. I'd prefer that this discussion be a bit more civilized." FuelWagon response includes the statement "Hostility? Hey, man, you were the one who mentioned Sean Penn. Now that I come back with the same flippant attidute and mention Paris Hilton, you want to call it hostility. Sorry, it works both ways. If you can dish it out, be prepared to take some as well."
6. After continues to push the Chomsky quote into the article, FuelWagon questions the motives of Jayjg and Carbonite with "Hey, carbonite, jayjg, fancy meeting you here. Fancier still seeing back to back reverts by you two. Imagine that."
7. FuelWagon contimues to taunt Jayjg about the Chomsky quote. "Hey, Jayjg, the Chomsky quote is relevant and a bunch of POV pushers are trying to delete it. I found a verbatim quote, a URL, and sufficient justification for why Chomsky counts as a notable source. Now, I recall that during the "wikistalking" proposed policy, the great many people opposed the idea of making it policy because content wins out over someone's personal feelings. So, you wanna talk about how your feeling thinking I'm stalking you? Or you wanna talk about content?"
8. FuelWagon taunts Carbonite on Carbonite's talk page "Nice to see the admins sticking together. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside."
9. In response to a revert war he's engaged in on another page Misplaced Pages:Request for comment, FuelWagon tells Carbonite "As far as I'm concerned, you're all the same."
10. FuelWagon posts an "outside" view on Zephram Stark's RfC, which had been inactive for over three weeks. He uses this forum to attack the actions of "SlimVirgin, Jayjg, Carbonite, and Texture...", while barely touching on the action of Zephram Stark.
11. After Carbonite inquires as to why FuelWagon posted the hostile summary on Zephram's RfC, FuelWagon provides weak justification (a link to Zephram's ArbCom case had been posted on his talk page 9 days prior). FuelWagon also ignore Carbonite request "I'm asking you once again to be more civil and not create or exacerbate tension between editors.".
12. FuelWagon responds with yet another hostile comment, accusing Carbonite of threatening him with an RfC.
13. FuelWagon uses Zephram Stark's ArbCom evidence page to air his grievances about Carbonite, SlimVirgin and Jayjg.
14. FuelWagon attacks Jayjg on Jayjg's talk page for reverting one of his edits on Misplaced Pages:Request for comment.
15. Attacks a newbie, User:Adam1213 for his signature and misunderstanding the definition of vandalism. "Your signature is the sign of someone crying out for attention." and "Hey, vandalism boy, you get on the counter-vandalism unit, someone gives you a title, and you think you can declare whatever you want to be vandalism?"
16. Responds to a comment from User:El C with hostile remarks: "Your intention was clear from the beginning: you are SlimVirgin's proxy warrior. You were involved in teh original RfC against SlimVirgin and you were her heavy hitter then, assaulting Neuroscientist for criticising poor helpless SlimVirgin. And now you're swinging the bat again in SlimVirgin's defense. You are biased. You are engaged. and you are acting at her request now as before. Don't get all self righteous on me, it doesn't suit you."
17. Accuses Jayjg of being SlimVirgin's meatpuppet. "ANd the only reason you're here is because you're SlimVirgin's meatpuppet." Later retracts the statement with a similarly hostile remark "I stand corrected. Jayjg is not a meatpuppet. He's simply a POV warrior."

Description of the dispute by SlimVirgin

FuelWagon has been engaged since July in a campaign of harassment against me, which recently extended to wikistalking. He has posted probably several hundred edits about me on various talk pages, around 100 on July 12-13 alone, some of which he keeps here. The background in brief: I first encountered him in June when an editor complained about FW's behavior at Nuclear option (filibuster), where he was reverting a lot and being aggressive on the talk page; as a result of the complaint, I blocked him for 3RR. I received another complaint about him in July, where he and three new editors had allegedly taken ownership of Terri Schiavo. I did a copy edit of the article, which FW reverted, accompanied by personal attacks, in which he called me a "f**%!ng *$$s0le," a "f**%!ng jerk," "you arrogant cuss," a "jerkoff," and an "arrogant arse." Ed Poor subsequently blocked him for the attacks. Ann Heneghan has written an accurate account of the dispute here if anyone wants more detail. This has led FW to start attacking Ann too.

Since then, FW has done almost nothing but attack Ed Poor and me. He filed an RfC on me in July, which was deleted because he couldn't show prior attempts at dispute resolution, but before deletion, it was clear it had gone firmly against him, with around 20 editors signing opposing views within 48 hours. (He claims now it was deleted because he kindly withdrew his certification, but that simply isn't true: he withdrew certification when he was told it was going to be deleted.) Despite this, he continues to bring up the Terri Schiavo copy edit, Ed's block, and the RfC at every available opportunity. He has restored the deleted RfC and its talk page to subpages here and here and he maintains an "attack" page about me here.

El C, Ann Heneghan, Willmcw, Marskell, FeloniousMonk, and Viriditas have tried to help resolve the dispute. FW's long, aggressive responses to some of them begin here and continue to almost the end of the page. The upshot was that he posted a list of 12 things that I must do before he will leave me alone, which involve me posting confessions of my wrong-doing on various talk pages. Willmcw said the list reminded him of "what North Korean captors required their U.S. P.O.W.s to do."

He has also started wikistalking me, appearing on pages he has never edited before, but which I have just edited, reverting me, and accusing me of bad-faith editing on the talk pages. These are just a few examples: on September 16, after I edited Misplaced Pages:Words to avoid, he arrived there for the first time and reverted me. On September 26 after I edited Refusal to serve in the Israeli military, he arrived there for the first time and reverted me. Also on September 26, I edited Israel, and a few hours later he made an edit there for the first time. On September 30, I edited Historical persecution by Jews, and he arrived there for the first time, reverted me within six minutes of my edit, and began attacking me on the talk page. I then edited Historical persecution by Christians and he arrived there for the first time within eight minutes to revert me, again attacking me on the talk page. In none of the articles he followed me to did he make a substantive edit, or a comment on the talk page about content. His comments were entirely about me.

In parallel to his behavior towards me, FW has engaged in a similar campaign against Ed Poor over the same issue. He went after Ed during Ed's RfAr, also posting attacks on the talk page. When the case closed, he continued to attack Ed starting here until the end of the page, asking that the RfAr be re-opened, because in FW's view, Ed hadn't been punished enough. Because no one supported him, on September 22, he posted his complaints about Ed on Jimbo's talk page and and receiving no response, posted again to Jimbo on September 24, appealing the arbcom's ruling in Ed's case. So far as I know, he received no response to that either. On September 25, he starting trying to have a black mark left on Ed's mediation record, and between then and October 16, he again posted several distorted accounts of the story to the Mediation Committee's talk page here. And in fact, as of October 18, he's still doing it though it's not even clear what he wants. Redwolf has asked him: "Would you like me to stamp a warning on Ed's face?"

It's difficult to convey the scale of FW's aggressive behavior, but it has reached the point of being worrying because of the obsessive nature of it, and because he seems to have no insight into how damaging it is, to himself and others. I've tried ignoring his comments and responding to them, ignoring his reverts, and reverting them, I sent him two friendly e-mails in August in an effort to appeal to him, and in September told him I was considering an RfAr, but none of it has made any difference. SlimVirgin 22:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Applicable policies

{list the policies that apply to the disputed conduct}

1. Misplaced Pages:Civility
2. Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks
3. Misplaced Pages:Please do not bite the newcomers
4. Misplaced Pages:Assume good faith
5. Misplaced Pages is not a battleground

Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute

(provide diffs and links)

1. I (Carbonite) tried to resolve the Terrorism dispute with FuelWagon in several ways. First, although I strongly disagreed with inclusion of the quote, I never removed it. Instead I attempted to resolve the dispute through a compromise. In fact, I only edited the passage in question twice. I first removed some weasel words "Some maintain..." and then removed some language lauding Chomsky. During this whole dispute, I was discussing the matter on the talk page. Second, in response to FuelWagon's hostile remarks on the Terrorism talk page, I requested "FuelWagon, please try to tone down the hostility of your reponses (or at least the last sentences of them)." After FuelWagon brought the dispute onto Zeprham's RfC, I tried to resolve the dispute on FuelWagon's talk page. It's also important to keep in mind that I was aware that numerous editors had tried (unsuccessfully) to resolve issues with FuelWagon's hostility. For this reason, I did spend less time than I would have if I knew the dispute was solely between FuelWagon and me. When viewed in conjunction with the many attempts by many other editors to resolve disputes with FuelWagon, I believe my dispute resolution attempts were adequate. Finally, I submitted this RfC to obtain community input, not as a punitive measure.
2. SlimVirgin sent two e-mails to FuelWagon on August 26 in an effort to resolve the dispute, but his responses were not conciliatory and there was no change in his subsequent behavior. SlimVirgin's e-mails can be read at User:SlimVirgin/FW, but FW's replies have been withheld (unless he gives his permission).
3. Viriditas exchanged about eight e-mails with FuelWagon between August 31 and September 5 in an attempt to resolve the dispute. This series of e-mails, entitled "SlimVirgin, RfC archive, etc", discussed various issues ranging from the RfC filed by FuelWagon, harassment of SlimVirgin, assuming good faith, allegations of ad hominem attacks, treating users with respect, not using Misplaced Pages as a battleground, diffusing conflict, and ending the dispute in general. There was no resolution.
4. El C posted several times to FuelWagon's talk page between October 3 and October 10 to ask him to delete the "attack page" on SlimVirgin and the deleted RfC he had copied to a subpage, and to tone down his approach, There was no resolution of the issue, and El C concluded: "All I see is more of the same from FW: Longwinded diatribes with the usual bitter, sarcastic and juvenile provocations, sophomoric innuendo, repetitive tautologies and eliptical circularities, Spanish Inquisition, Ministry of Truth, Ministry of Information rewriting history, silly name calling, et cetera, etc., and otherwise personal attacks, and acts of incivility, breaches of wikiquette, and the endless, ceaseless. battleground."
5. Marskell also posted repeated comments on FuelWagon’s page in an attempt to mediate and offered the following compromise thrice to FW: "drop the pages and confrontational stance with SlimVirgin if she acknowledges she should have used Talk before editing Terri Schiavo and promises not to involve herself in FuelWagon's RfCs or similar without an invitation or obvious interest in the subject." When last suggested Marskell specifically asked other editors not to gang-up and never accused FuelWagon, suggesting instead that expecting 12 points from SlimVirgin was unreasonable but that this compromise was not. FuelWagon's final response to the offer was clear: "Since you want a one-word reply, here it is: No."
6. FeloniousMonk has attempted on his own accord to broker a resolution by email between FuelWagon and SlimVirgin as recently as 14 October.
7. Ann Heneghan asked FuelWagon on 17 June to stop using foul language and being aggressive, insulting, and hostile. The foul language continued until 12 July, when FuelWagon was blocked. The hostily and insults continued after the block. On 15 September, when FuelWagon had posted another of his numerous attempts to have some action taken against Ed Poor, Ann appealed to him to drop the case and move on, reminding him that he had been welcomed back as a member in good standing after his block. On 5 October, Ann left a note for FuelWagon pointing out that he was being selective in the information he submitted while making complaints against Ed Poor. She expressed admiration for some of FuelWagon's better qualities, but said that it was a pity he couldn't move on, because he was losing some of the respect he had gained. Following several statements and/or insinuations from FuelWagon that Ann was commenting on the Ed Poor case simply because she had a grudge against FuelWagon, Ann left a note for him on 13 October assuring him that she had no grudge, and explaining that her references to his past behaviour were made as a necessary part of defending people against whom he was continuously making accusations. She assured him that if he stopped trying to bring further humiliation upon Ed (who had resigned as bureaucrat) and if he deleted his accusation page against SlimVirgin, she would never again bring up his history of abuse.

Users certifying the basis for this dispute

(sign with ~~~~)

1. Carbonite | Talk 23:36, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
2. Willmcw 23:51, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
3. SlimVirgin 05:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
4. El_C 21:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
5. Viriditas | Talk 22:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
6. Ann Heneghan 07:19, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
7. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:29, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Other users who endorse this summary

(sign with ~~~~)

1. Jayjg 19:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
2. Slrubenstein | Talk 19:32, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
3. FeloniousMonk 01:08, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
4. A sad and sordid tale. It's a shame good editors like Slim have to waste so much of their valuable editing and administrivia time with such menial tasks as making sure the garbage is properly marked. Tomer 09:28, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
5. jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 19:02, 23 October 2005 (UTC) agreed, what a waste of energy on everyone's part
6. --MPerel 20:02, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
7. ←Humus sapiens←ну? 20:57, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
8. Ambi 00:24, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
9. JFW | T@lk 07:50, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
10. — goethean ॐ 15:34, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
11. Cberlet 13:31, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Response

This is a summary written by the user whose conduct is disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the above summary is biased or incomplete. Users signing other sections ("Statement of the dispute" and "Outside Views") should not edit the "Response" section.

Well, it would appear that the people who pushed this RfC are snowballing the evidence to include an ever wider and wider list of disputes in an effort to overwhelm. Since they've now expanded it to include multiple statements of disputes from different editors regarding different disputes they have with me, I'll attempt to break my response down into the various specific disputes.

Response regarding NPA

I was blocked for 40 hours for NPA violations on 21:02 July 12 by Ed Poor. I accepted the block without protest and have not violated NPA since. There is no "dispute" regarding NPA because the dispute was resolved as of July 12. As it happens, I was in the process of cleaning up my NPA comments when Ed blocked me, so I was cleaning up my act. I apologized to SlimVirgin for NPA violations here. This issue was resolved. I was blocked. I served my time. I apologized. And I haven't violated NPA since. SlimVirgin is axe-grinding and bringing this up as if it were a current issue. I'm not sure if she expects a second apology, or if she wishes to see me get another block for the same NPA violation, or what.

I mention this first because the "evidence" against me includes the word "attack" approximately 12 times. Yet, the last attack you will see by me occurred July 12, I was blocked, served my time, and apologized. Every accusation of "attack" in the evidence above implies that it means "FuelWagon broke NPA policy", but actually it means "FuelWagon opposed someone and they didn't like it".

Response regarding 3RR violation

Wow. the 3RR violation was 21 June, so SlimVirgin is bringing out all the baggage, regardless of whether it is resolved or not. There has been no dispute on the Nuclear option (filibuster) article for months. When SlimVirgin blocked me, I emailed her to inform her that I was attempting to insert a quote from Al Gore that another editor kept trying to take out. She said that since I was quoting Al Gore it showed that I was a "partisan" editor. I'm not exactly sure, but reporting the former vice president doesn't strike me as either 'partisan' or a violation of any policy. In any event the 3RR issue was resolved months ago. User A ghost came in and helped rewrite teh article and found a compromise. FuelWagon 06:02, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Response regarding Terri Schiavo article

SlimVirgin walked into the Terri Schiavo article with absolutely no experience with the article or the topic. (in fact this edit shows her deleting an embedded note saying:

This paragraph is a direct quote from Dr. Bernat's testimony before the U.S. Senate in April 2005. Dr. Bernat's testimony was approved by the AAN Executive Committee. The two links provided document the testimony and the AAN approval

And inserting her own note saying:

Is this true? I seem to recall a case in England where a man woke up after a long time in PVS.

Her knowledge of teh issue appeared to be anecdotal at best. the article was also marked as a "controversial topic" and was in mediation for about a month. She proceeded to make a dozen edits to the article with the "edit in progress" tag in place. Even when an actual Neuroscientist posted a 5,000 word explanation listing all the factual and NPOV problems with her edit , SlimVirgin insisted her edit contained no errors and should be reinserted in teh article. In fact she denied at every turn that there was even a single factual error in her edit:

Please say what your specific objections are, rather than reverting.

please discuss your objections on talk.

I'm assuming the above can't be your only objection, so please lay them out

If you feel I've introduced errors, please list them on talk

You haven't yet explained why you want to exclude that information.

neither of you has said what your objection is.

If these are your only objections, I don't know why you reverted all my edits.

Show me one error I made in the article, either factual or grammatical.

If this is the only issue you can find with my copy edit, why did you revert it?

I'm waiting for an answer from FuelWagon or Duckecho that might explain the blind reverts. Show me one factual or grammatical error that I edited into the article.

I've asked several times for someone to point to one error of fact I edited into the article and so far no one has come up with one. You also mention errors of fact, but again, don't cite any.

If I made a factual error, point to it.

Meanwhile, she accused the main editors who were criticizing her edit (myself, Duckecho, Neuroscientist, and A ghost) of all sorts of behavorial problems in response to any criticism of her content. Yet every time anyone asked for a specific diff to support her accusation, they were met with silence.

SlimVirgin wrote "I feel that FuelWagon and Duckecho are POV pushing too by insisting, for example, that no dissenting voice be heard in the intro." FuelWagon never made the claim that no dissenting voice be heard in the intro. When confronted with this, SlimVirgin never responded or corrected her statement.

SlimVirgin wrote It appears that a small group of editors, currently consisting of User:FuelWagon and User:Duckecho have taken ownership of this page and won't allow others to edit without their consent. This isn't allowed. No one was "owning" the page or wouldn't let others edit it without our "consent". Despite numerous posts describing all the factual errors in her massive edit, SlimVirgin refused to acknowledge a single error and instead blamed other editors.

Here, SlimVirgin accuses FuelWagon of violating NPOV and "No Original Research". FuelWagon asked for diffs to show where he violated NPOV or where he violated No original research. SlimVirgin never responded and never retracted her accusation.

SlimVirgin accused FuelWagon of "arguing for the sake of arguing" about the prognosis for PVS. SlimVirgin's edit questioned the American Association of Neurology's prognosis of persistent vegatative state based on a single anecdotal case she "heard" about in England.

Response regarding RfC against SlimVirgin

Just to be clear, SlimVirgin's opinion of an RfC is "An RfC is like putting someone in the stocks. In my view, it's a horrible process, and I would only do it to POV warriors and trolls who couldn't be blocked for disruption. I've never seen good come from an RfC" This should explain her response to my RfC against her.

The RfC against SlimVirgin covered the number of factual and NPOV errors in her edit, her refusal to admit even a single error in any of her edits, her demand that her edit be reinstated, and her accusations against the editors who criticized her content. It can be read in full here. The RfC talk page is here. And an endorsement by Ed Poor supporting the RfC is posted here because Ed later retracted that comment and deleted it entirely. (interesting that SlimVirgin generally demanded that I not move any of my comments on the RfC, but that I strike them out. Funny she never demanded the same of Ed's comment) Ed's comment ended with "Basically, Slim moved too far, too fast at Terry Schiavo.".

The RfC recieved sufficient certification to remain active. SlimVirgin claims that there wasn't sufficient evidence showing attempts to resolve the dispute, but that's an interesing accusation given the ever-widening list of diffs on THIS RfC that people are trying to pass off as attempts to "resolve" this dispute. They still haven't hit it. But I'll get to that later.

Anyway, I withdrew certification, and the RfC was deleted. The hatchet was buried as far as I was concerned.

A month later, SlimVirgin is opposing one of my edits on another page. She says I must be pushing teh edit "because of the RfC you filed" and then tells me that "no credible editor, other than you, saw the merit in that RfC" . Witihin a month, SlimVirgin has officially unburied the hatchet, and is trying to use it againt me.

I upload a copy of the RfC to my userspace and tell her that User:Neuroscientist was an actual neurological specialist. Rather than admit that someone credible supported the RfC, she questioned whether he was really a neuroscientist. I mentioned that User:Proto also endorsed the RfC and he showed up to defend his "credibility". SlimVirgin made no retraction.

A few hours after I upload the RfC to my user space, SlimVirgin asks user Maurreen about the "appropriateness" of having a deleted RfC in a user's subdirectory. . The reply comes back that precedence allows for a deleted RfC to be kept in a user's subdirectory .

There is no "dispute" remaining around keeping a copy of a deleted RfC in my subdirectory. It is not against policy. More about this later.

Response regarding Bensaccount RfC

I filed the Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Bensaccount 22 August. It Was certified by myself, Banno, Parker Whittle, and endorsed by Clair de Lune, Ec5618, Robert McClenon, Linuxbeak, and Synaptitude. SlimVirgin was not involved in any of the cited articles, she was not involved in the dispute, she made no comments on the RfC. Bensaccount makes a short reply to the RfC saying little but ending with "I won't even bother any more". He makes no further reply, and makes no edits at all to wikipedia. After a week, I talk with the certifiers about withdrawing certification in an attempt to give Bensaccount a second chance and start with a clean slate. They agree, we move our "certification" to "endorse", and I post a request to have the RfC deleted 21:56, 31 August 2005

I offered to delete an RfC against an editor to give them a clean slate. This was teh same reason I deleted my own certification of the RfC against SlimVirgin, to wipe the slate clean. This is just the sort of a thing a person who uses wikipedia as a battleground would do.

Earlier that day, SlimVirgin posted on my talk page that she is "all out of good faith" . 03:26, 31 August 2005

SlimVirgin saw the request to delete the Bensaccount RfC and jumps on it within an hour. "This looks like another example of an inappropriate RfC filed by you" 22:47, 31 August 2005

The discussion moves to the Bensaccount RfC talk page, and SlimVirgin is crusading to call this an "inappropriate" RfC, which means everyone who certified or endorsed it were part of an inappropriate RfC, and they don't particularly like that.

Banno posted "Perhaps you should leave your baggage behind you, and look at the evidence anew."

SlimVirgin posted "I'm not quite sure what you mean by baggage." (to use the words of Bishonen, with "injured innocence")

Banno posted to SlimVirgin "It was you who referred to this being "another example of an inappropriate RfC filed by fuelwagon" (my emphasis) - I assume you are referring to some other correspondence with him: this is the baggage to which I referred. ... I am insulted and angered at your lack of good faith in my actions, which you impugn along with Fuelwagon's."

FuelWagon posted to SlimVirgin "You are biased against the editor who filed this RFC. you are involved. And now you're usign this as ammunition to prove to wikipedia what a horrible, bad-faith editor I am. Go away. You don't care whether procedure was followed for this RFC, you are looking for mud to sling."

PWhittle posted to SlimVirgin "I'm rather at a loss to determine how one might have even suggested a compromise, other than to attempt to resolve the dispute, as the links provided showed."

FuelWagon posted "SlimVirgin has now twice deleted my comments on her behaviour here, once declaring them a "personal attack" and once simply saying "reverting". , . Can someone explain to me how comments on an editor's BEHAVIOUR as an editor qualifies as a personal attack? Can someone explain to me why anyone would "revert" comments on a talk page? SlimVirgin is now suppressing criticism of her behaviour on the grounds that it is a personal attack. She has publicly declared she will not assume good faith on my part, and so her questioning the legitimacy of this RFC cannot lead to any other conclusion from her other than it being an illegitimate RFC. She is biased. She is now suppressing criticism of her behaviour as an editor."

Ec5618 posted "SlimVirgin, stop it. You're being extremly petty."

Just recently, Bensaccount shows up on one of the disputed articles and makes what appears to be another disputed edit. I decide to add the diff to teh RfC, and archive the talk page in case there is a discussion. SlimVirgin ends up reverting my archive. . There is no reason for her to this other than to harass. The discussion page had been inactive for six weeks.

So, tell me again about making wikipedia a "battleground". SlimVirgin had nothing to do with this RfC for a week, she was not editing any of the articles in the dispute prior to this. The day she tells me shes all out of good faith, she lunges on this RfC and goes on a crusade to nail me for an "inappropriate" RfC. Several of the other editors who supported the RfC see her actions as "baggage" and as "petty".

Response regarding Ed Poor

Ed Poor was mediating the Terri Schiavo article for about a month before SlimVirgin came into teh article.

Ed blocked me for violating NPA against SlimVirgin. I didnt protest it and accepted the block.

User Neuroscientist posts a 5,000 word criticism of the content of SlimVirgin's edit, including numerous factual and NPOV problems. It gets into a lot of technical and neurological detail. . SlimVirgin replies "I don't appreciate the personal comments you've lobbed at me" and she acknowledges not a single factual error on her part. Instead she announces she is withdrawing from editing to decide if she should deal with the page as an admin instead of an editor. . Ed Poor responds to Neuroscientist by warning him not to violate NPA . Neither Ed nor SlimVirgin acknowledge a single factual or NPOV error pointed out by Neuroscientist.

I start working on an RfC against SlimVirgin on my talk page. SlimVirgin complains. Ed asks her if there's any specific talk page he should look at . Two hours later , Ed moves all the edits on my talk page that are critical of SlimVirgin to a /block subdirectory and blocks me because "you have not said anything about how you intend to help this project." He quickly realized that was a silly excuse for blocking someone and then adds that I was making "personal remarks" . The entire /block directory can be read here. If you can find a violation of NPA, please let me know.

I asked Ed to "point out what exactly on my talk-page was "hurtful" that got me completely locked (I was doing my best to write my objections to SlimVirgin's edit without any mention of personal character)" . Ed avoided answering teh question, responding "If you want to dig into whether I've "followed the rules", if you're more interested in that than in making a good article, go ahead and RFC/RFA/RFdeadmin me or whatever. We can have a mud-wrestling contest, but neither or us will enjoy it much and we'll both get filthy." . This to me basically says that there were no NPA violations on my talk page that he moved to teh /block directory, and that he did it solely because I was working on the RfC against SlimVirgin, and SlimVirgin was a personal friend.

Once I file teh RfC against SlimVirgin, Ed gave it hesitant and partial endorsement saying " Basically, Slim moved too far, too fast at Terry Schiavo." . Mel Etitis opposed the RfC saying "Ed Poor has shown poor judgement in endorsing this, in my opinion. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:04, 15 July 2005 (UTC)" to which Ed Poor responded "I have withdrawn my endorsement - which was only partial and tentative. Uncle Ed 20:40, July 15, 2005 (UTC)" . Ed then goes on the RfC talk page and attacks it and anyone supporting it as "building a case", gaming the system in a hypocritical bullying way, and "spurious".

I withdraw my certification and the RfC is deleted. Ed then gives me a lesson in free speech:

You're entitled to form whatever opinion you want, but not always to express it. There is no freedom of speech at Misplaced Pages in the same sense as America's First Amendment. I happen to think you're an asshole and a shit head, and that you're fucking everything up, you stupd, time-wasting bully!!! (This is inserted as an example of a forbidden comment, go ahead and complain about me if you want, but I was illustrating a point.

So, basically, I have 4 points of issue regarding Ed Poor's behaviour while mediating the Terri Schiavo article. (1) there are no NPA violations in my /block directory and his second block against me was underserved and simply an attempt to stop the RfC against SlimVirgin (2) Ed warns Neuroscientist for violating NPA when all Neuroscientist did was critique SlimVirgin's edit (3) Ed Poor engaged in teh debate on the RfC and attacked it and the people who filed it as building a case, gaming the system, bullying, and spurious (4) Ed Poor then attacked me under the justification of teaching me a lesson about free speech.

I submitted this information to arbcom, but they chose not to make any findings of fact on the issue, and instead accepted Ed Poor's resignation as Bureaucrat without saying anything about what he may have done wrong. Effectively, arbcom pardoned Ed Poor of any wrong doing in exchange for his resignation as bureaucrat. I asked arbcom to reopen the case. Fred Bauder said they declined, but I could appeal to Jimbo Wales. I did. Got no response. Then I took it to the mediation committee, and am still trying to work something out there.

SlimVirgin posts " And in fact, as of October 18, he's still doing it though it's not even clear what he wants. Redwolf has asked him: "Would you like me to stamp a warning on Ed's face?"". The section she refers to starts by me asking the mediation person if there is something that can be done that is NOT impeachment about a mediator who doesn't mediate.

Response regarding "attack"

In her narative above, SlimVirgin states "Since then, FW has done almost nothing but attack Ed Poor and me." This is convenient for her, since she gets to make the accusation without supplying a single diff. I filed an RfC against SlimVirgin. She has begrudged me since.

She also says "In parallel to his behavior towards me, FW has engaged in a similar campaign against Ed Poor over the same issue." I've explained above the issue around Ed Poor. I am trying to take my issue with Ed Poor through the dispute resolution system. That shouldn't be a policy violation.

SlimVirgin also states "He has restored the deleted RfC and its talk page to subpages here and here and he maintains an "attack" page about me here." First of all, SlimVirgin already knows that there is precedence that it is not against policy to keep a copy of a delete RfC around on a user's subdirectory. Second of all, she was the one who unburied that hatchet, and third of all, the "attack page" contains no NPA violations or any other violations, and simply lists a history of how things have come about. What she calls an "attack" page was something I started when she started trying to rewrite history around the RfC I filed against her, and it became clear that I would need to keep track of what has happened in the past.

Most of this response is taken from that history page. Without it, it would take days to track through the individual articles and attempt to rediscover what someone said where and when. And given that she has been intent on rewriting history to the point of RfC'ing me for all sorts of non-existent or already-resolved disputes, for accusing me of "attacks" when there were none, for accusing me of all manner of harrassment while conveniently forgetting to mention her contribution to the dispute, it would seem a page of relevant diffs was justified.

Response to EL_Cs attempts to resolve

SlimVirgin states "El C, Ann Heneghan, Willmcw, Marskell, FeloniousMonk, and Viriditas have tried to help resolve the dispute. FW's long, aggressive responses to some of them begin here and continue to almost the end of the page".

Interesting. Lets just be clear. El_C was an editor who supported SlimVirgin on my RfC against her. And he was rather vocal about it on the talk page to the point of saying "I challenge" to some issues. He was not attempting to resolve the dispute, he wanted it to go away. From the RfC against SlimVirgin

Actually, no. Citing official Misplaced Pages policy is not a personal attack, I challenge. El_C 22:04, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

She didn't CITE it. She accused me of violating it, which I didn't do. Citing it would be something like "taking ownership of a page violates wikipedia policy". She just came out and said I've violated it. And if saying "it appears" in front of something gives you a blank check to say anything, sign me up. As for whether or not I did or did not violate "ownership", I answered that on the talk page due to length. FuelWagon 22:46, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

To me, that appears to be an exercize in sophistry. El_C 23:12, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for Assuming Good Faith on my part. FuelWagon 23:18, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Likewise. I never claimed it was intentional, but I feel it is the reality nonetheless, and I am entitled to hold that opinion. El_C 23:31, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Look, the reason I filed an RFC was in part because an attempt to work it out on talk simply exploded. I thought that perhaps an RFC could bring in an outside, unbiased voice. SlimVirgin made a reckless edit and she still holds that it should be reinserted. If you want to ignore all the issues on an RFC because one point sounds sophist to you, fine. But I don't need people like you challenging me here. I'm trying to avoid another explosion. FuelWagon 23:49, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I'll comment on and direct challenges toward whatever I see fit, I'm not bound by the conditions you set. El_C 00:03, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

I set no conditions. I said I don't need people like you challenging me. If you want to "direct challenges toward whatever (you) see fit", fine. It's good to have a some purpose in life. If you'd like to help keep this RFC non-combative though, I would appreciate the help. If not, whatever. I just made a request. You get to choose. FuelWagon 00:09, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

I am not interested in responding to that at this time. El_C 00:16, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

El_C is the person that SlimVirgin says "have tried to help resolve the dispute." Well, lets look at that "attempt to resolve", shall we? Quite out of teh blue, El_C comes onto my talk page and posts the following demand:

Hi. Would you mind explaining to me why you are keeping these pages on-site instead of off-site for your own records? Since neither are part of an RFC, RFAr, etc., I'm inclined on viewing these as attacks pages and calling for their deletion. Thanks. El_C 19:57, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Basically, justify to me why you are keeping these pages or I'll have them deleted. I tell him that precedence already shows that having deleted RfC pages around is within acceptable policy, and that the only other page is an explanation of the history as to how and why the deleted RfC has been uploaded in the first place. There are no NPA violations on any of tehse pages.

I'm not here as an admin, and what I want is for your "criticism" to be brought out to the open and taken to its logical conclusion, not indefinitely buried on-site so as to harbour more ill-will. I'll AfD whatever I deem fit, this was merely a note as per my intention. El_C 18:18, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I also point out that users like FeloniousMonk kept running records of other editors and no one harrassed him. I ask El_C if he encouraged FeloniousMonk to follow through the dispute resolution procedures as El_C is encouraging me? Did he give FM the same encouragement he is giving me?

No, not the same. El_C 20:04, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't personally approve of FuelWagon keeping records of his disputes with other editors, but I support his right to do so. Yes, a few records hither and yon are important to document, but this is, in my honest opinion, unhealthy for Wagon. That said, in response to El_C, yes, it may not be the same, but Wagon still has the right to keep records on his user and talk pages. I don't see how it harms anybody else. For all I know, he may have records on me, but I don't see how that changes things: If I did something, I did it, and if I didn't, then I didn't. Can someone say "making a mountain out of a molehill?" I think all parties are to some extent guilty of this, and I say this as outside info, to be helpful, not to be offensive.--GordonWatts 06:21, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

So, SlimVirgin's invocation of El_C as an attempt to "resolve" this dispute is rather laughable. El_C was combative on the RfC against SlimVirgin, defending SlimVirgin and attacking and challenging the poeple who filed it. He was likewise equally combative on my talk page, opening "discussion" by demanding I properly justify my subdirectories to him or that he will have them deleted. It was only after I pointed out that deleted RfC's aren't against policy that he admitted that he wasn't approaching me an administrator. And it was clear that while some editors can have running records of what editors do and not get harassed, El_C, who has a history of combatively defending SlimVirgin, decided to get combative on my talk page.

This sort of behaviour hardly qualifies as an attempt to "resolve" anything. And what he was attempting to "resolve" isn't even a policy violation. Keeping records of another editor has been acceptable behaviour of other editors. In fact, SlimVirgin, and Robert McClenon, both have subdirectories about my editing behaviour, and I'm not demanding they delete them.

So it seems to be a bit of a one-way street in that regard.

Also, note that on September 30, SlimVirgin threatened to bring me to arbcom . El_C's attempt to "resolve" this issue started four days later on October 3 . So, you'll forgive me if I find El_C's appearance on my talk page to be any real attempt to "resolve" anything, and simply an ally of SlimVirgin operating at her request to fullfill the eventual requirements to bring me to arbcom. i.e. she would need to show two attempts to resolve the dispute on an RfC, and interestingly enough a few days after SlimVirgin mentions bringing me to arbcom, her good buddy and combative friend, El_C, shows up on my talk page with a combative attitude demanding I justify my pages to him or he'll delete them. He didn't want to resolve anything, he wanted the problem to go away, the pages to be deleted, or failing that, he wanted to be able to satisfy the requirements to RfC me and eventually get me before Arbcom. A nice tag team effort.

Response to accusations of wikistalking

SlimVirgin in her narative accuses "He has also started wikistalking me".

I quote Misplaced Pages:Words to avoid which specifically says using "however" in her form is not neutral.

Three days later, SlimVirgin deletes teh entire "however" entry from the "words to avoid" page

So, I'm not sure how she claims that I was stalking her to this page. I mention "words to avoid" and three days later, she follows me there to delete the very policy I used to criticize her edit.

Because SlimVirgin is deleting policy, I add the "Words to avoid" page to my watchlist.

Later, an editor on that page attempts to add "conspiracy theory" to the list of words to avoid. I support the addition, and get opposed by SLimVirgin, Jayjg, willmcw, and several other editors whose names are getting quite familiar. Many editors oppose adding "conspiracy theory" to the list, but all I'm proposing is that "conspiracy theory" only be used when reporting someone's point of view, rather than having an editor decide whether a claim should be labeled "conspiracy theory". The whole debate strikes me as rather odd, because an article using "conspiracy theory" is mentioned by someone (The Protocols of the Elders of Zion) and it seems to do exactly what I think should be done, i.e. "so-and-so says this is a conspiracy theory" rather than "this is a conspiracy theory". I keep asking on the talk page for an example of a situation where reporting a conspiracy theory as a fact is important, but get no reply. SlimVirgin is on the talk page and mentioned "the theory that Israelis and/or Jews were warned to stay away from the World Trade Center on 9/11" was factually a conpsiracy theory. I start looking for articles about Isreal knowing about the 9/11 attacks beforehand and using the phrase "conspiracy theory". The next day, I find the "Refusal to serve in the Israeli army" article.

In the "Refusal to serve in israeli army" article, the "Courage to Refuse" organization refers specifically to the "occupied terrirtories". SlimVirgin deletes that phrase and inserts her own POV wording .

I insert a quote from the "Courage to refuse" URL, citing their statement verbatim, which uses the term "Occupied Territories". . I also fix the intro to cite a specific example, namely the "Courage to refuse" organization, using their vocabulary, reporting their point of view. .

Jayjg reverts the entire thing back to SlimVirgin's version, calling my insertion of sourced quotations with URL's "POV pushing" .

I revert, saying that "Sourced quotes do not equal POV pushing" . SlimVirgin joins in the act .

SlimVirgin deletes contemporary history from Jewish article . I revert it .

SlimVirgin deletes contemporary history from christian article . I revert it .

While I don't find an article using "conspiracy theory" as a statement of fact, I stand by my edits on these articles as legitimate content making the articles better, involving sourced information with URL's. And I was supported by other editors in these additions.

In contrast, SlimVirgin involved herself in the Bensaccount RfC the same day she claimed she could no longer assume any good faith of me, and until that point, she had no involvement with the Bensaccount RfC or the pages on which the dispute occurred. Her behaviour could be considered "wikistalking". And it turns out that her accusations on the bensaccount RfC were wrong. So I find her accusation of wikistalking to be just a tad hypocritical. See Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/FuelWagon_2#Response_regarding_Bensaccount_RfC for specific info and links.

Response regarding Terrorism article

Vizcarra informed me of the RfC against Zaphram. (I believe it was because Vizcarra was involved in a dispute with SlimVirgin and Jayjg, and somehow he learned that I was involved in a dispute with SlimVirgin and Jayjg as well.) I check out the RfC. It points to the Terrorism article. I go to the Terrorism article and try to insert a verbatim quote from a notable source with a URL to verify its accuracy. Many of the editors who had RfC'ed Zaphram attempt to revert my quotation and work in unison to delete it, downplay it, or similar.

the RfC against Zaphram opens with the following statement of dispute:

Zephram Stark, and nobody else, has persistently claimed that there is something deeply and fundamentally wrong with the article's introduction. Despite receiving no support whatsoever and overwhelming opposition, he has stubbornly continued repeating the same complaints and frequently making low-quality changes agreed to by nobody except himself.

With his thick-headedness he is single-handedly holding this article hostage.

It seemed obvious to me that this "Statement of Dispute", which was certified and endorsed by many editors, had made Zaphram into a scapegoat, blaming him for all the troubles at Terrorism, and whitewashing the behaviour of any other editors involved. I posted a comment on the RfC. You can read it in full here Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Zephram Stark#Outside_view_by_FuelWagon. By all means, if you find a breach of policy in that comment, then please point it out. My crime was simply opposing the whitewashing.

Within an hour of posting my comment to the RfC, Carbonite comes to my talk page and accuses me of being disruptive, hostile, and uncivil, and indicates he is thinking of RfC'ing me. He can claim that it wasn't my comments that were the cause of this RfC, but events clearly show that one hour after I make a comment critical of his behaviour as an editor on the Zaphram RfC, Carbonite is threatening me with an RfC. Five hours after putting my comment on the Zaphram RfC, Carbonite has created this RfC.

Carbonite tells me the RfC against Zaphram was inactive, but since RfC's basically live forever and the "summary of dispute" was so grossly one-sided, I thought it warrranted a comment. Carbonite informed me that the RfC had moved on to arbitration, so I submit the same evidence to arbitration (reformatting to meet arbcom requirements). You can read that evidence here. Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Zephram_Stark/Evidence#Evidence_presented_by_User:FuelWagon And by all means, if you can find a single policy violation in that evidence, I'd appreciate anyone pointing it out.

Finally, some editors are now trying to retrofit the charges to make it appear as if they had a dispute with me for many, many months. I was blocked by Ed Poor on 21:02 July 12 for NPA violations. And I have not broken NPA since. There is no NPA violation "dispute" because it was resolved as of July 12, 2005.

My "crime" is filing a comment on an RfC and submitting evidence to arbcom that was critical of a number of the editors who created this RfC and who have certified or endorsed it. Any other "evidence" against me basically boils down to calling an editor's behaviour like I see it: the blame for the dispute around the Terrorism article didn't rest solely on Zaphram's shoulders. I tried to insert a verbatim quote from a notable source with a URL to verify it's accuracy into the Terrorism article. Carbonite, Texture, SlimVirgin, and Jayjg acted as a pack to keep it out. There is no justification that I can see for them to do this, other than they are used to getting their way, and will RfC people who oppose them. There are no policy violations in the evidence I submitted to RfC or to arbcom regarding Zephram. There are no policy violations by me in the various talk pages. I simply opposed Carbonite, Texture, SlimVirgin, and Jayjg's edits, so they RfC'ed me.

Users who endorse this summary

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):

1. FuelWagon 13:06, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
2. Zephram Stark 21:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
3. A pack of editors, who use all means available bar actual discourse to get their way on many pages, are using the dispute process to attack an editor they have clashed with. Sadly, this will lead to arbitration, more frustration for FuelWagon, a decent guy who is striving for NPOV on very difficult articles, and eventually the cabal will ban him. I urge the editors involved to cease patrolling pages, to cease disputation with editors who do not agree with them, and to work to lessen, not increase, discord. I urge the same on FuelWagon too. Grace Note 23:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
4. The lies/misrepresentations that constitute this hatchet job can be appreciated by studying the involved set-up behind this misrepresentation: "he posted a list of 12 things that I must do before he will leave me alone". How about: "He was goaded into stating what would make him comfortable enough to throw away the subpages he thought he might need if an attack like this one were to occur." So that it could here be taken out of context, misrepresented, and used as a weapon against him. These bullying tactics make me sick. WAS 4.250 10:16, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

   That would have been the "combat negotiator", El_C. Mutually resolving the dispute obviously wasn't his focus. Meeting the requirements for RfC was. four days after SlimVirgin threatened me with arbcom , El_C, former combative commentor on the RfC against SlimVirgin, shows up on my talk page with a "justify yourself or be deleted" attitude . But I'm sure that's a bit of a stretch, too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FuelWagon (talk • contribs) 13:34, October 19, 2005 (UTC)

5. Vizcarra 20:36, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

disputing evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute

There are three diffs listed for trying and failing to resolve Carbonite's dispute. They certainly qualify as interesting examples of trying to "resolve" anything. The first one shows him comparing Noam Chomsky to Sean Penn (this is a compromise???), the second one is a threat to RfC me if I do not comply with his demands (aye aye, captain), and the third one is an email from SlimVirgin after she unburied the hatchet about my RfC against her, after I had withdrawn my own certification of the RfC to allow it to be deleted. i.e. the third "attempt" to resolve the dispute is about an unrelated dispute, and SlimVirgin is now grinding a wiki-axe.

1 Carbonite replies to FuelWagon "FuelWagon, please try to tone down the hostility of your reponses (or at least the last sentences of them."

Carbonite compares Noam Chomsky to Sean Penn in this diff. That's his version of "resolving" the dispute.

2 Carbonite tells FuelWagon "I'm finding your behavior to be rather disruptive and running counter to the goal of creating an encyclopedia."

Carbonite criticizes my comments on the RfC against Zaphram as nothing but a rant, calls me disruptive, hostile, and threatens an RfC against me.

3 SlimVirgin sent two e-mails to FuelWagon on August 26 in an effort to resolve the dispute, but his responses were not conciliatory and there was no change in his subsequent behavior. SlimVirgin's e-mails can be read at User:SlimVirgin/FW, but FW's replies have been withheld (unless he gives his permission).

I had filed an RfC against SlimVirgin on July 14. It was certified by myself and another editor and supported by three additional editors. I withdrew certification to allow it to be deleted. On August 24, SlimVirgin unburies the hatchet saying I'm doing something "because of the RfC you filed." "no credible editor, other than you, saw the merit in that RfC" . I upload a copy of the deleted RfC which shows a number of editors had supported it. She then emails me that "This thing between us seems to have started up again. I don't want it to, and don't see why it did". Well, she knew exactly why it started up: she brought it up and tried to use it against me. This qualifies as axe-grinding.

4 Viriditas exchanged about eight e-mails with FuelWagon between August 31 and September 4 in an attempt to resolve the dispute. There was no resolution.

These emails were all regarding me uploading a copy of my RfC against SlimVirgin to my user space. There is already precedence that keeping a copy of a deleted RfC is not against any policy and is acceptable behaviour. Therefore, this is not an attempt to resolve any policy violation.

5 El C posted several times to FuelWagon's talk page between October 3 and October 10 to ask him to delete the "attack page" on SlimVirgin and the deleted RfC he had copied to a subpage, and to tone down his approach.

El_C was a combative editor supporting SlimVirgin and attacking editors who had RfC'd her, including a rather combative remark to Neuroscientist on the RfC, and a number of combative challenges to me on teh RfC. El_C's attempt to "resolve" this dispute consisted of him showing up on my talk page, rather out of teh blue, with a blunt demand that I explain why I have a deleted RfC in my user space or he will delete them. When I explain that (1) a deleted RfC already has precedence for not violating policy, and (2) none of teh pages contain any NPA violations despite calling them "attack" pages, he admits he isn't there as an admin. When I point out that FeloniousMonk had maintained a history of edits by another editor, El_C admits that he did not approach FM the same way he was approaching me. Furthermore, SlimVirgin and Robert McClenon have subdirectories specifically about me, and I am not demanding they delete them. So it seems a bit odd that I'm being singled out. El_C's attempt to "resolve" was little more than an abrupt demand to satisfy his requirements or face having my directories deleted. Only when I pointed out there wasn't a single violatin of policy did he back off. And he never explained why I am being treated differently than a number of other editors. If sending a combative editor to my talk page qualifies as an attempt to "resolve" a dispute, then I'd hate to see what "harrassment" looks like. Oh, and one other thing, SlimVirgin threatened to bring me before arbcom a few days before El_C happened to show up on my talk page. My guess is that she asked him so that she could mee the RfC requirements for showing an attempt to resolve the dispute, knowing that El_C would fight for her and would either get my pages deleted (making the problem go away) or get a diff showing an attempt to "resolve" the dispute, satisfying the RfC requirement, setting me up for arbcom to get me banned and making the problem go away. The diffs for all this are given here.

response to description of the dispute by SlimVirgin

SlimVirgin has posted a rather skewed description of teh dispute above. I asked her to post it in the form of individual diffs as evidence. She has thus far refused. I have broken down her "decription" into individual accusations and replied to each. This is sort of related to "evidence", so I'm putting it next to the response to evidence section.

FuelWagon has been engaged since July in a campaign of harassment against me,

An RfC, which I withdrew, evidence submitted to arbcom, and some articles that we had content disputes over.

which recently extended to wikistalking.

Ask SlimVirgin about stalking/harrassing me on the Bensaccount RfC, six weeks ago.

He has posted probably several hundred edits about me on various talk pages, around 100 on July 12-13 alone, some of which he keeps here.

Actually, Ed Poor put it there, and I've left it there since. I had been working on a list of issues with her edit on the Terri Schiavo article, and was preparing evidence for an RfC when Ed Poor blocked me again for personal remarks, and moved my work to the directory you point to. I've asked Ed to point out what specific remarks got me blocked, but he has not yet replied. I figured I should keep it around in case he wants to answer my question.

The background in brief: I first encountered him in June when an editor complained about FW's behavior at Nuclear option (filibuster), where he was reverting a lot and being aggressive on the talk page; as a result of the complaint, I blocked him for 3RR.

I was trying to insert a quote from Al Gore. A vandal kept trying to delete it. For quoting Al Gore, SlimVirgin called me a partisan editor.

I received another complaint about him in July,

From GordonWatts, who was pushing quite a bit of POV on the article at the time.

where he and three new editors

"new"? I'd been working on the article since April. Two others had been working on it for a month or so apiece. One was a neuroscientist, whose expertise on Terri Schiavo's neurological condition was extremely helpful.

had allegedly taken ownership of Terri Schiavo.

As accused by GordonWatts, who at the time, was pushing POV.

I did a copy edit of the article,

9 consecutive edits , with the "in use" flag, on an article marked "controversial" and "in mediation". Neuroscientist posted a 5,000 word explanation of all the things wrong with her "copyedit".

which FW reverted, accompanied by personal attacks, in which he called me a "f**%!ng *$$s0le," a "f**%!ng jerk," "you arrogant cuss," a "jerkoff," and an "arrogant arse." Ed Poor subsequently blocked him for the attacks. Ann Heneghan has written an accurate account of the dispute here if anyone wants more detail. This has led FW to start attacking Ann too.

I was cleaning up my posts when Ed blocked me. I accepted teh block without protest. I served my time.

Since then, FW has done almost nothing but attack Ed Poor and me.

attempt to use the dispute resolution process, and disagree on the content of some articles that we both worked on.

He filed an RfC on me in July,

certified by myself and Duckecho, endorsed by 3 others.

which was deleted because he couldn't show prior attempts at dispute resolution, but before deletion, it was clear it had gone firmly against him, with around 20 editors signing opposing views within 48 hours. (He claims now it was deleted because he kindly withdrew his certification, but that simply isn't true: he withdrew certification when he was told it was going to be deleted.)

I withdrew certification on teh Bensaccount RfC a month later because Bensaccount had stopped editing wikipedia for a week after the RfC had been filed, and I wanted to give him a clean slate. Same with SlimVirgin.

Despite this, he continues to bring up the Terri Schiavo copy edit, Ed's block, and the RfC at every available opportunity. He has restored the deleted RfC and its talk page to subpages here and here and he maintains an "attack" page about me here.

I withdrew certification, the RfC was deleted. a month later, SlimVirgin and I are in dispute on the RfC instruction page and she tells me I'm only making the edit "because of the RfC I filed" and that no one "credible" supported it. I upload a copy of the deleted RfC. I tell her that Neuroscientist was pretty credible. She questioned whether he was a neurologist. She asks her friend Maurreen if its acceptable to keep a deleted RfC. Maurreen tells her that its acceptable.

El C, Ann Heneghan, Willmcw, Marskell, FeloniousMonk, and Viriditas have tried to help resolve the dispute. FW's long, aggressive responses to some of them begin here and continue to almost the end of the page.

SlimVirgin threatened me with arbcom on Sept 30 , and El_C shows up on my talk page four days later with a post that basically says "justify why you have these subdirectories or I'll have them deleted" . El_C also had thte same combative atttiude on the RfC against SlimVirgin. It was in this mix that several others attempted to gang up with El_C and "resolve" this. It is only a long response because so many people decided to jump in, and it was no more aggressive than El_C's initial aggressiveness.

The upshot was that he posted a list of 12 things that I must do before he will leave me alone, which involve me posting confessions of my wrong-doing on various talk pages. Willmcw said the list reminded him of "what North Korean captors required their U.S. P.O.W.s to do."

The combat negotiator, El_C asked me what would be my "ideal" resolution. I made the mistake of answering him honestly. Note ideal and reality are quite a ways apart. However, relating to them as "reality" sure makes it easier to dismiss as a North Korean captor. Note to self: when someone asks what would be your "ideal" result, remember that it's a trap.

He has also started wikistalking me,

Ask SlimVirgin what she calls her involvement on teh Bensaccount RfC back in August. She had no involvement in the RfC for a week, she had no involvement in the articles in question, she had no involvement in the dispute in any way. But an hour after she posts to my talk page that she is "all out of good faith" , she appears on teh Bensaccount RfC, trying to turn it into evidence of "another inappropriate RfC"

appearing on pages he has never edited before, but which I have just edited, reverting me, and accusing me of bad-faith editing on the talk pages. These are just a few examples: on September 16, after I edited Misplaced Pages:Words to avoid, he arrived there for the first time and reverted me. On September 26 after I edited Refusal to serve in the Israeli military, he arrived there for the first time and reverted me. Also on September 26, I edited Israel, and a few hours later he made an edit there for the first time. On September 30, I edited Historical persecution by Jews, and he arrived there for the first time, reverted me within six minutes of my edit, and began attacking me on the talk page. I then edited Historical persecution by Christians and he arrived there for the first time within eight minutes to revert me, again attacking me on the talk page. In none of the articles he followed me to did he make a substantive edit, or a comment on the talk page about content. His comments were entirely about me.

This started on the "words to avoid article", I cited the "words to avoid" article explaining why one of SlimVirgin's edit was biased , three days later, she deleted that entire entry from the "words to avoid" article . So, she "arrived" there first, but I had cited the piece that she had just deleted. She was deleting policy that was critical of her editing, so I reverted the Words to avoid article. The words to avoid article then gets involved in a debate about adding "conspiracy theory", someone mentions "the protocols of the elders of zion" and Israel knowing about 9-11 and warning Jewish people who worked in teh WTC, and I started looking for conspiracy theory articles. That's how I got to "Refusal to serve in israeli army" and then "historical persecution by Jews". The Refusal to serve article, I insert a quote and a URL. The historical persecution by Jews article, SlimVirgin deletes the section critical of Israel saying that the "historical persecution by Islam" doesn't have a conemporary section. But it turns out that the "historical persecution by Christians" article did. I revert both contemporary sections.

In parallel to his behavior towards me, FW has engaged in a similar campaign against Ed Poor over the same issue. He went after Ed during Ed's RfAr, also posting attacks on the talk page.

I submitted evidence to arbitration. There are no attacks.

When the case closed, he continued to attack Ed starting here until the end of the page, asking that the RfAr be re-opened, because in FW's view, Ed hadn't been punished enough.

"because ed hadn't been punished enough"? No, because Arbcom accepted Ed's resignation as punishment but never said as punishment for what. I asked for them to make a finding of fact like any other case. Several other editors agreed Ed Poor's case was handled rather oddly.

Because no one supported him, on September 22, he posted his complaints about Ed on Jimbo's talk page and and receiving no response, posted again to Jimbo on September 24, appealing the arbcom's ruling in Ed's case.

Because Fred Bauder said arbcom rejected the request to reopen the case and that it may be appealed to Jimmy Wales, with an edit summary "How to appeal" .

So far as I know, he received no response to that either. On September 25, he starting trying to have a black mark left on Ed's mediation record, and between then and October 16, he again posted several distorted accounts of the story to the Mediation Committee's talk page here. And in fact, as of October 18, he's still doing it though it's not even clear what he wants. Redwolf has asked him: "Would you like me to stamp a warning on Ed's face?"

I asked the mediation committee if there is any process for handling a mediator who doesn't mediate. Apparently there is not. Ed Poor and I are now in one-on-one mediation.

It's difficult to convey the scale of FW's aggressive behavior, but it has reached the point of being worrying because of the obsessive nature of it, and because he seems to have no insight into how damaging it is, to himself and others. I've tried ignoring his comments and responding to them, ignoring his reverts, and reverting them, I sent him two friendly e-mails in August in an effort to appeal to him, and in September told him I was considering an RfAr, but none of it has made any difference. SlimVirgin 22:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

My RfC against her had been deleted for a month in august when she started using it against me saying no one "credible" supported it. To keep a record of the truth, I uploaded a copy of the RfC to my user space. She tried to find a way to say it was against policy. when that failed, she sent the emails. SlimVirgin has not once admitted to a single contribution to this dispute. It is all my fault. Even after a Neuroscientist pointed out a 5,000 word explanation of problems with her edit, she refused to admit an error on her part and accused us of "owning" the article, POV pushing, etc. The RfC was filed against her while the dispute was still going and her response was to call her changes a "copyedit" a "minor edit" and that "All the objections were minor". When we had a dispute a month later, she blamed it all on me saying it was "because of the RfC you filed" and that no one "credible" supported it. When she showed up on the Bensaccount RfC the same day she told me she's "all out of good faith", she blames it all on me by saying "it looks like another inappropriate RfC" by me. She has not once acknowledged any contribution to this dispute since its beginning, and continues to not only blame me, but to rewrite history to cast me as evil incarnate.

SlimVirgin tells half the story. She reports my actions out of context with her actions. She also reports her interpretations of my actions as if they were fact. The Words to Avoid example clearly shows she is either making mistakes in her reporting or is misrepresenting the true sequence of events. She also fails to mention her own actions that might reflect poorly on her. She constantly refers to her edit as a "copyedit" despite a 5,000 word critique from an actual neuroscientist. She refers to my preparation for an RfC (100 hundred edits on July 12) as if it were against policy to RfC someone (I've since learned to use an offline editor and then cut and paste teh text). She fails to mention that teh RfC had been deleted for a month before she decided to use it against me, and that I uploaded it in response to her attempts to rewrite history. She fails to mention that she followed me onto teh Bennsaccount RfC for no other reason than to find something to use against me.

response to individual "evidence" of violations

The individual pieces of evidence are disputed below. First a note about descring the observed behaviour of editors.

On the Terri Schiavo article, SlimVirgin accused editors of "POV pushing", "owning the page", being "patronizing" and "deragratory", "arguing for the sake of arguing", and violating "No original Research". This was the subject of an RfC against SlimVirgin. The overwhelming response was that statements describing observed behaviour are not violations of policy, even as many times as SlimVirgin did it on the Terri Schiavo article. If this has changed, perhaps we should reopen the RfC against SlimVirgin as well. Otherwise, I take it that describing observed behaviour of other editors is not a violation of policy.

Second a note on "hostile". Pretty much the evidence above often accuses me of a "hostile" response. This apparently is defined to mean "anything opposing the editors who support the RfC against me". If this is a wiki, then opposing someone's edits that I think are POV or defending my edits that I think are NPOV is completely valid behaviour. That I defend my edits shouldn't be considered a violation of policy. That I oppose someone else's edits shouldn't automatically be deemed "hostile" behaviour. I also like how Carbonite threatens me with an RfC, and then calls my response "hostile". Just some notes on the repeated use of the word "hostile" in the "evidence".

1. "Moron. Republican held senate majority for 6 of clinton's years. That is a simple fact. even if you whitewash it, the assert goes later. rewrote it."

Old news (a diff from May 2005?). Dispute resolved.

2. Implies that a revert of his edit was due to "POV pushing"

Describing observed behaviour.

3. After Slim Virgin provides a reason for the revert, FuelWagon's comment ends with "OK, that excuse didn't work, time to shift tactics and come up with a completely different one."

Describing observed behaviour. For example, Carbonite came to my talk page an hour after I commented on the Zaphram RfC and threatened to file an RfC against me. He has since attempted to change his strategy and claim I have a history of breaking policy. That's what I would call "shift tactics"

4. Carbonite questions the inclusion of the quote by asking why a notable activist such as Chomsky should be quoted, but not another such as Sean Penn. FuelWagon again ends his comment with the sarcastic "Would you care to try again? Perhaps you can compare Noam Chomsky to Paris Hilton."

I'm talking about Noam Chomsky, a guy who wrote at least 40 books about politics, a guy who is considered the most influential critic of US foreign policy by the Dictionary of American Philosophers, a guy who is senior scholar with the Institute for Policy Studies. Carbonite compares him with Sean Penn. I say that's equivalent to comparing him to Paris Hilton. Please show me the policy violation here.

5. Carbonite responds by saying "Once again, please tone down your hostility. I'd prefer that this discussion be a bit more civilized." FuelWagon response includes the statement "Hostility? Hey, man, you were the one who mentioned Sean Penn. Now that I come back with the same flippant attidute and mention Paris Hilton, you want to call it hostility. Sorry, it works both ways. If you can dish it out, be prepared to take some as well."

see 4

6. After continues to push the Chomsky quote into the article, FuelWagon questions the motives of Jayjg and Carbonite with "Hey, carbonite, jayjg, fancy meeting you here. Fancier still seeing back to back reverts by you two. Imagine that."

describing observed behaviour, the same editors are working in unison on multiple pages that are in dispute.

7. FuelWagon contimues to taunt Jayjg about the Chomsky quote. "Hey, Jayjg, the Chomsky quote is relevant and a bunch of POV pushers are trying to delete it. I found a verbatim quote, a URL, and sufficient justification for why Chomsky counts as a notable source. Now, I recall that during the "wikistalking" proposed policy, the great many people opposed the idea of making it policy because content wins out over someone's personal feelings. So, you wanna talk about how your feeling thinking I'm stalking you? Or you wanna talk about content?"

describing observed behaviour. defending a verbatim quotation from a notable source with a URL to verify. Policy violation?

8. FuelWagon taunts Carbonite on Carbonite's talk page "Nice to see the admins sticking together. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside."

describing observed behaviour. admins working in unison to revert valid content.

9. In response to a revert war he's engaged in on another page Misplaced Pages:Request for comment, FuelWagon tells Carbonite "As far as I'm concerned, you're all the same."

describing observed behaviour.

10. FuelWagon posts an "outside" view on Zephram Stark's RfC, which had been inactive for over three weeks. He uses this forum to attack the actions of "SlimVirgin, Jayjg, Carbonite, and Texture...", while barely touching on the action of Zephram Stark.

barely touching on the actions of Zephram is a violation of policy????? Apparently I wasn't critical enough of Zephram, and that's a problem with Carbonite. That would seem to sum up a lot of his problems here.

11. After Carbonite inquires as to why FuelWagon posted the hostile summary on Zephram's RfC, FuelWagon provides weak justification (a link to Zephram's ArbCom case had been posted on his talk page 9 days prior). FuelWagon also ignore Carbonite request "I'm asking you once again to be more civil and not create or exacerbate tension between editors.".

Carbonite demanded I justify why I posted on the RfC against Zaphram. I told him that Vizcarra had told me about it on my talk page. He may not like the reasoning, but it is no violation of policy.

12. FuelWagon responds with yet another hostile comment, accusing Carbonite of threatening him with an RfC.

hostile? I think it was a rather measured response to being threatened with an RfC. By all means, read it for yourself.

13. FuelWagon uses Zephram Stark's ArbCom evidence page to air his grievances about Carbonite, SlimVirgin and Jayjg.

Carbonite complained about me filing an outside comment on the RfC against Zaphram because it had moved on to arbitration. So, I post the evidence to arbcom. This is not a violation of policy, unless submitting evidence and diffs is a violation of policy.

14. FuelWagon attacks Jayjg on Jayjg's talk page for reverting one of his edits on Misplaced Pages:Request for comment.

"attack"? Jayjg has a history of reverting on that page without making a single comment on the talk page to explain why. this is describing observed behaviour.

15. Attacks a newbie, User:Adam1213 for his signature and misunderstanding the definition of vandalism. "Your signature is the sign of someone crying out for attention." and "Hey, vandalism boy, you get on the counter-vandalism unit, someone gives you a title, and you think you can declare whatever you want to be vandalism?"

Adam1213 did a blanket deletion of valid content containing 6 URL's calling it "nonsense" and "vandalism" .

16. Responds to a comment from User:El C with hostile remarks: "Your intention was clear from the beginning: you are SlimVirgin's proxy warrior. You were involved in teh original RfC against SlimVirgin and you were her heavy hitter then, assaulting Neuroscientist for criticising poor helpless SlimVirgin. And now you're swinging the bat again in SlimVirgin's defense. You are biased. You are engaged. and you are acting at her request now as before. Don't get all self righteous on me, it doesn't suit you."

Describing Observed Behaviour. El_C was SlimVirgin's advocate, attacking people who supported the RfC against her (you can read the original RfC with his comments here ). Months later, El_C came to my talk page demanding I justify to him why I had a copy of the RfC against SlimVirgin in my userspace. . El_C only later admitted that he wasn't coming into my talk page as an Admin, and only later admitted that keeping a copy of the RfC wasn't a violation of any policy.

17. Accuses Jayjg of being SlimVirgin's meatpuppet. "ANd the only reason you're here is because you're SlimVirgin's meatpuppet." Later retracts the statement with a similarly hostile remark "I stand corrected. Jayjg is not a meatpuppet. He's simply a POV warrior."

describing observed behavior. Jayjg and SlimVirgin are a tag-team that work together on several pages to oppose edits they don't like. It isn't surprising that they both opposed my edits on the Terrorism article, they both supported teh RfC against Zaphram, and they both support this RfC against me. If it's a policy violation to report this behaviour, I'd like to see it.

SlimVirgin has just dumped a huge number of rambling accusations into narative form. This is impossible to respond to. She needs to reformat them in the "evidence" section so that I can respond to tehm one at a time. Unless of course, you just want her to make blanket accusations and not give me any direct DIFF to look at to prove or disprove the accusation. Well, I'm sure you'd love to do that, but this RfC is clearly showing how many axes are being brought to the table.

Actually, accusing me of something like "harrassment" without providing a diff sure makes a witchhunt easier, eh, SlimVirgin???

Response to users certifying the basis for this dispute

Make your own judgements as to the involvement between the editors supporting this RfC.

Hey, I see goethean, a POV pusher I butted heads with on the Intelligent design article, just endorsed this RfC. Nice snowball effect here.

Outside view by Zephram Stark

Picture a little Cartman running around Misplaced Pages saying, "Respect my authority, or I will RfC you!" Now read what Carbonite said on FuelWagon's talk page and see if you can tell the difference.

When FuelWagon refused to join Carbonite's lynch mob, Carbonite threatened to RfC him. Anyone with self-respect is naturally going to tell Cartmanite to stick his threats directly up his over-sized big-wheel. Any "evidence" that C-man presents wasn't a problem until FuelWagon refused to subjugate himself. --Zephram Stark 00:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Outside view by Gordon Watts

This is a summary written by users not directly involved with the dispute but who would like to add an outside view of the dispute. Users editing other sections ("Statement of the dispute" and "Response") should not edit the "Outside Views" section, except to endorse an outside view.

{Add summary here, but you must use the endorsement section below to sign. Users who edit or endorse this summary should not edit the other summaries.}

DISCLAIMER: I am not directly involved with the Terrorism dispute, and don't know one of the editors certifying this dispute. The other editor, Carbonite, I do know, but I am not involved with his dispute with FuelWagon, so I qualify as an outside view.

FuelWagon has indeed caused problems by exaggerating the weight of some matters of minimal importance and trivializing the weight of other matters, and taking pot-shots at The Register newspaper I edit sometimes, when it was used as a source to document some event(s) that was not covered in mainstream media, and this after my use of my "vanity" link was approved by at least one other editor not affiliated with The Register: "The only link of yours that is proper is one that covers important legal information covered nowhere else. I'll let other editors decide if that article is important enough, but the others have to go...- Taxman Talk 23:36, 22 September 2005 (UTC)"

In addition, he did use inappropriate language in a burst of anger on one occasion to User:SlimVirgin.

However, he has since not used rude language, and furthermore, he has contributed greatly to the article, with one result being that I recently awarded him a barnstar and encouraged him to keep an eye on things if I got too busy to edit due to real life things.

Carbonite is not totally wrong in his RfC here, and in his criticisms of me in my recent RfA, he was not totally wrong, but in both my RfA and FuelWagon's RfC, I think that Carbonite exaggerates a little bit the magnitude of the problems. Finally, even were all the accusations of the two certifying editors true, we must remember that this is an unpaid job, and thus not expect too much: If we make a mountain out of a molehill, we will get an ulcer or stress out over an unpaid job. Do we really want to do that?? (Can't we all just get along?)

That being said, Wagon does make mistakes, and I can direct you to the Terri Schiavo article and talk pages. Are not all the works, both good and evil, of User:FuelWagon recorded in the Chronicle of the acts of Terri Schiavo?--GordonWatts 05:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):

1. --GordonWatts 05:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Outside view by Hipocrite - retracted

This is a summary written by users not directly involved with the dispute but who would like to add an outside view of the dispute. Users editing other sections ("Statement of the dispute" and "Response") should not edit the "Outside Views" section, except to endorse an outside view.

Fuel was slightly overagressive in his behavior, and needs to focus on WP:COOL. The attempts to resolve the dispute by Carbonite were incredibly weak. Threatening an RFC is not an attempt to resolve a dispute. Having attempted to edit the article in question before, I find the behavior of the endorsers to be overagressive in defending the status quo - and I was not doing anything with respect to POV. Apologies, I confued my parties.

By request, I have returned to reevaluate. I stand by my initial statements that Fuel needs to focus on WP:COOL, and given the additions, I reenforce this statement with bolds. Fuel needs to focus on WP:COOL. He does incredibly valuable work that needs doing on the Terri Schiavo article - and does it well, and would have the same article-space impact in other sections of this encyclopedia if he kept his cool there. I continue to find some of the attempts to resolve the dispute by the endorsers as relayed in the attempts section to be incredibly weak. In turn: