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I think this should become a task force.

Why? Because Nintendo (which is bigger than Pokémon since Pokémon along with other things are included in there) has become a task force.

Oh and before waving the WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS flag, read further, as I have more reasons than just that. Besides the games and movies, what else is there to work on? By that I mean what other articles of Pokémon are we going to work on? By working on I mean on the actual article, not the attempt to merge.

Let's face it, this WikiProject was created because the species was too much to handle for few people, which is why we created this WikiProject to begin with. But now that characters, places, the species and other stuff have been merged to lists I believe this doesn't have the requirements to be a whole WikiProject anymore.

Ok, now discuss. You can disagree, but I'd like to see some real argument, not WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS since it was only part of my suggestion. Thank you very much. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 15:02, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree, actually. Pretty much all I have to say on the matter too, as I was thinking about suggesting this myself.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I oppose, I think there's still too many articles in the spectrum of this project. Over 200, at least. There's a Legend of Zelda project. Tezkag72 (talk) 14:18, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Now that's WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.--Ipatrol (talk) 22:13, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I think Blaze is right, this should become a taskforce. It's too inactive to remain a full project. Artichoker 02:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, there are still over two hundred articles in the project. Why don't we have a Collaboration of the Week, if the project is so inactive. It would help us actually collectively improve the articles. kag₇₂ 01:30, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The Legend of Zelda project was actually merged into the Nintendo task force. I think this project could do nicely as a task force, with full support of WP:VG. ~ JohnnyMrNinja 06:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually there was an objection during the suggestion over at WP:VG on this becoming a task force. The issue comes up that a large number of articles covered by this project are not related to the video game project.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 07:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

That's true. Like the anime or the trading card game. There's a bit of overlap, but... kag₇₂ 21:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Where is the discussion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Hoenn&diff=prev&oldid=237689806

In this revision I clearly said that I see no merge discussion, therefore removed the tag, but I was being reverted. And I'd like to be proven wrong please. As far as I know discussion is needed somewhere in order for a merge tag to be at the top of the article. I am not going to a revert war, but I'm asking to be proven wrong.

I was reverted for this reason: "People are allowed to put merge tags on."

Does this statement prove me wrong in any way? No, it doesn't. I'm not denying that people are allowed to put merge tags, but why do you think (Discuss) is part of the template? Don't you find it a little mysterious that it would be there if discussions aren't required?

Again, I'd like to be proven wrong. And I checked the contr. and the one that put the tag there did in not start a discussion by the time I reverted. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 00:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

All a merge tag is is a proposal. It doesn't mean an article absolutely will be merged. It got brought up here, with the reason for concern being the lack of covering notability, which is true at the moment: none of the regions are discussed due to reception and whatnot. If their combined into one article, at least that will allow for it to be list-type and what applied reception is found used to keep it afloat.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:48, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

In that case, I will just lead the tags to that discussion. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 00:55, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

But I don't agree with the merge suggestion though, at all. After seeing how crappy the lists of Pokémon have turned out, I'm losing my trust in this WikiProject. I know merging is the best thing to do, but I somehow feel like Misplaced Pages is going down the drain. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 01:00, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Well then the best bet is to object to the merge on Hoenn and to find things by third parties that discuss the region in significant notability. That'll probably be pretty difficult though. But the pokemon lists are in themselves a royal messup of a degree that shouldn't be as extreme as it is: a lot of the characters could find notability to discuss about them, people just aren't. So if you want action, put things into motion. All Misplaced Pages's doing in the end is cleaning out things that were set up that people just didn't write with an encyclopedia in mind, but more a directory of misc info. I'm running up against this a lot with my work on the SC character articles, and them volume of them that end up merged...--Kung Fu Man (talk) 01:04, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe it's best if I just quit the WikiProject. I have other things to do than googling for reliable sources. I will officially leave this project tomorrow. It doesn't need me, I'm useless. And what am I learning from this project? Nothing but guidelines I didn't came to Misplaced Pages to learn about. I will stay for one more day to see how others feel about me leaving this project. But by the end of the day tomorrow, I will officially leave the project and get the WikiProject page out of my watchlist. Besides, Bulbapedia already has all the information I need, since everything left in the end will be the video games, I will leave this project tomorrow, since I no longer support what it has become. I can be glad about one thing, movie articles aren't being merged, so I can still be part of WP:FILM. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 01:13, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Well like I said, if you want something done you have to do something about it :\ I'm still working on reviving Mewtwo's article, and I'll probably go after Gastly/Haunter/Gengar as a trio article when that time comes too.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 01:33, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

TheBlazikenMaster, what would you like to see done with the Pokémon articles? How are they crappy? I know that many of them need to be copyedited, but what else do you think needs to be done to improve them? SunDragon34 (talk) 00:14, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Do whatever you want, I've completely lost my trust in this WikiProject. I'm probably gonna be blocked for saying this (It wouldn't bother me, after all I'm mostly on Misplaced Pages to revert vandalism, and learn useful information.) but I don't find merge helping at all, I just find merging making things worse. Yeah, I know you will lead me to a guideline or a policy, that is the problem, this site only allows stuff that are part of this world. I also was disappointed to see the Chamred episodes being merged. The good encylopedia this used to be is dead. I'm officially leaving this WikiProject, good bye. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 00:32, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages 0.7 articles have been selected for Pokémon

Misplaced Pages 0.7 is a collection of English Misplaced Pages articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Misplaced Pages:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Misplaced Pages talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Misplaced Pages:Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Misplaced Pages 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 22:33, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Project Pokedex

I made a small-time project. Please include it into the site. Link:Project pokedex —Preceding unsigned comment added by Portalcake (talk • contribs) 11:06, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Pokemon and their rightful place

In an essay I wrote, I said that the merging of all the Pokémon articles was a very poor decision:

The deletion of all the Pokémon articles was a particularly disappointing time on Misplaced Pages. Pokémon characters have lots of media and sources associated with them, have a lot of fans who would be interested in reading these articles and editing them, and are "notable." They are also a great way to get people involved in Misplaced Pages: They come to the site, see how good our coverage of that subject is, and begin contributing and getting interested in the project. Pokémon characters are "notable," verifiable, have the potential to become Featured articles, have a lot of users to support them, and may get people interested in Misplaced Pages. The only reason to oppose articles on Pokémon characters is that a traditional encyclopedia would not have these articles; however, these kinds of articles are precisely what we can and positively should preserve.

I know that this project has begun to falter, but I would like to begin an open-ended discussion to see what consensus would be like on returning all Pokémon articles to their pre-merge state. Another possibility would be to expand the ones that have been featured in movies (Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Darkrai, etc etc), version mascots (Kyogre, Groudon, Dialga, Palkia, etc), ones that have appeared in video games (Pichu, Lucario), ones that have spawned Internet memes (Mudkip), or other particularly famous ones (Charmander, Squirtle, etc); however, I personally feel that all Pokémon deserve their own article, and would very much enjoy discussing this with members of this project. I feel that enough time has gone by that consensus may have changed. Hell, Bulbasaur used to be FA quality! I really think this idea has merit, and I eagerly look forward to any and all responses on this important issue. GlassCobra 22:16, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Some of what you say, I agree with. "Important" Pokémon such as the legendaries and ones featured extensively in the anime could very well warrant their own article. However, the majority of Pokémon (ones like Girafarig) are simply too obscure to have individual articles as there are not a lot of verifiable sources for them. However, I believe a compromise can be worked out, and maybe fifty new Pokémon articles could see creation. Mew and Mewtwo have already been created and are doing quite well. So I'm willing to be flexible and would support the creation of articles such as Moltres, Entei, Lugia, Lucario, etc. Artichoker 22:33, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Every single relevant detail that can be written about any single Pokemon besides Pikachu easily fits in the list entries. The only way to have more than that is by violating WP:PLOT and WP:NOTGUIDE and including other unnecessary details. If people were to actually expand upon the lists instead of whining about it all of the time, I'm sure they could see that they are quite adequate for an encyclopedia. Those looking for specific strategies on how to use them within the games or plot summaries describing their every appearance in the anime or manga should already be over at Bulbapedia. TTN (talk) 22:36, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Why only Pikachu? What about all the other particularly important Pokémon, like Darkrai, which you and I conflicted over just today? I'm sure there are plenty of independent sources for it; it was the subject of a movie, after all. Further, per WP:NOTPAPER, why should we be limited on the information that we can keep here? This topic conforms to (as a recently departed user frequently stated) "notability to a real-world audience, consistent with a "specialized encyclopedia" concerning verifiable fictional topics with importance in the real world." Each of the Pokémon that I've listed above should easily be able to find as much sourced material as the ones that currently have standalone articles.

However, TTN, I'm curious to know a little more about your particular viewpoint. Why is it exactly that you feel that information must be condensed into as little space as possible? What would be wrong in having just the information that we have about each Pokémon in its own separate article? GlassCobra 23:19, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Reverting everything to July 2007 would undoubtedly improve the utility and entertainment value of the pokemon articles. Contrast Old Wailordwith the current Wailord, remember there were illustrations and stats tables for most that also fell foul of guidelines and were deleted. It is not "encyclopedia" content, and not written as such rather written for a particular audience. It was much better content, better organised and targeted. Misplaced Pages guidelines and licensing need to change so this kind of loss is minimised. Should be a spectra of article and media licensing? Per article, per illustration. Corella (talk) 12:43, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

The Pokémon that play major roles in the non-video game media (anime, comics, movies, etc.) should have their own articles, yes. When it comes to Pokémon that have not made an appearance in said media (or Pokémon that have made few or insignificant appearances), however, I think that because the only reliable sources would be from video-game-related materials (such as guide books), it would be a violation of Misplaced Pages:NOTGUIDE#GUIDE. Ink Runner (talk) 23:15, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Where are the sources?

We can't do write anything useful until we have some decent sources, and to date nobody has unearthed any. You can argue up and down and left and right that such-and-such Pokémon is important but until you can come up with some sources to make some sourced factual claims, it comes to nothing. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 23:24, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Guys, you're missing my point. As per WP:NOTPAPER, we don't need to condense all these potential articles into a list. The format at present is likely discouraging the addition of content; as tightly packed and filled with WikiCode as they are, I'm sure plenty of people simply don't know where to put things. As I asked TTN, so shall I ask you, AMIB: what, precisely, is wrong about giving each Pokémon their own article, even if the content was merely what we have at the moment? It would allow for more flexibility with adding content and sources, and could be organized in a more efficient manner, with links pointing for evolutionary changes and such. GlassCobra 23:30, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

What content? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 23:39, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I would prefer constructive discussion rather than snarky comments. Each Pokémon has some content devoted to it in the lists. GlassCobra 23:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

(←)There are plenty of reliable sources for individual Pokémon, as evidenced by the Mewtwo article. So I believe it would be possible for other Pokémon to have well-sourced articles. Artichoker 00:02, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Well I noticed something while researching that article that would play into here. A good chunk of the original 151 and to a lesser extent Togepi and the glitch MissingNo. go coverage in various media, such as character reception to studies on how children reacted to the and so forth. With the second and later generation games though there wasn't as much: the fad died out and how they affected culture wasn't as important. Mewtwo had a lot of material made for just him, such as manga bits, an audio drama, and the first film. But there was more a lot of reactions to his role in said media and so forth that is more important to the article.

Darkrai was in a film, but do reviews of the film talk about him as a character? That's the point you need to look for. The cultural impact of a character, even if it's just a bunch of people stating their reactions to it. Not saying TTN's right by far, but am saying that if work is done to revive articles, the lens scope should be kept realistic and with sources emphasized to back things up.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:26, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I think the following Pokémon articles should be discussed and should have sources looked for for them:

1. Pichu
2. Jigglypuff
3. Mewtwo
4. Mew
5. Legendary Birds (separately or together)
6. Bulbasaur (which would cover all lines of Bulbasaur)
7. Charmander (^)
8. Squirtle (^)
9. Togepi
10. Meowth
11. Poliwag (due to the development information we have about it) - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:20, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

JigglypuffMewtwo, Mew, Bulbasaur, and Meowth are all already standalones (as well as Pikachu, not on your list). Why would Bulbasaur's article also cover Charmander and Squirtle? GlassCobra 01:23, 5 October 2008 (UTC) (note to A Link to the Past: I refactored your comment a bit, I hope you don't mind. The list seemed a bit unnecessary)

Jigglypuff's really needs an overhaul to be honest. And I would suggest Snorlax, Alakazam and the original ghost trio for that list (recognizability with the first, controversies with the latter two as well as recognizability). I don't think the legendary birds are a good idea though, even as a joint article: it could be done, but reception would be the biggest issue. Also what's the dev info with poliwag? o_O This is the first I've heard of such.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 01:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

It adds readability, and your modifications altered my comments. And that they have articles does not mean that they have adequate sourcing, so we should discuss and work on these articles.

And the dev info is of the creator mentioning how he created Poliwag, that the swirl comes from how a tadpole looks. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:03, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I seriously don't think a whole article should be made about Poliwag if that's all we got...--Kung Fu Man (talk) 06:01, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Guys, every Pokémon is going to be important enough or interesting enough or whatever enough for someone to think it needs its own article. The standard is sources, and we have for pretty much all of them. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 02:48, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe each pokemon could have their own articles especially the legendaries and those featured in the movies. As with the rest, they may not be as popular as Pikachu but still they deserve their own articles. Everyone has their own favorite. With regards to the sources--I think we have plenty of them. Drakesketchit (talk) 19:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Let's talk about sources

Someone brought up Mewtwo as an example of a well-sourced article. Let's talk about the sources in this version.

1. Primary source.
2. Primary source.
3. An interview that doesn't actually back the claim that Mewtwo was designed by Ken Sugimori. Indeed, the interview doesn't even mention Mewtwo.
4. IMDB, an unreliable source.
5. (Unsourced!) translation of a Japanese-language primary source.
6. A source I don't recognize? Apparently Japanese-language?
7. A Time Magazine article that mentions Mew (but not Mewtwo).
8. Review of Pokémon: the First Movie
9. Primary.
10. Primary.
11. Primary.
12. Primary.
13. Primary.
14. Primary.
15. Primary.
16. Primary.
17. Primary.
18. Primary.
19. Primary. No evidence that this is licensed merchandise.
20. Primary. No evidence that this is licensed merchandise.
21. Primary. No evidence that this is licensed merchandise.
22. Primary. No evidence that this is licensed merchandise.
23. Review of Pokémon: the First Movie
24. Apparently secondary, don't have access to the source to verify claims. Guessing it's commentary on Pokémon: the First Movie
25. Review of Pokémon: the First Movie
26. Review of Pokémon: the First Movie
27. Review of Pokémon: the First Movie
28. Review of Pokémon: the First Movie - cited quote misses the point of review, however
29. Secondary source, IIRC cited source does not mention Mewtwo as a character that appeals to boys, making claim OR
30. Non-reliable source that does not back the claim it's attached to.
31. Game guide, no cited author, possibly fan-written?
32. Game guide
33. Game guide
34. Three sentences as part of a list, but secondary
35. Forum topic

According to the reliable sources that actually talk about Mewtwo instead of Pokémon in general, Mewtwo appears in Pokémon: The First Movie, critics felt such-and-such way about said movie, the end. And this is supposedly one of the better-sourced articles.

I'm not being sarcastic when I say that there's no content to put into standalone articles. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 02:46, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Seem a bit aggressive over this, AMiB. This is a discussion about finding sources and discussing potentially noteworthy Pokémon. Can't see why you'd be so against that. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:56, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

People are arguing that demerging would help get these articles sourced. No evidence exists to support that claim. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 02:58, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The discussion right now has nothing to do with demerging, but whether or not they should be demerged. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:04, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Huh? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 03:06, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Simply put, I made a list of what should be researched/discussed to see if they have enough reliable sources and useful content to warrant their own pages. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:08, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I, too, support the unmerging of some of these more notable Pokémon. Useight (talk) 03:34, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

It's comments like that that make the people who do the work look bad. We're trying to establish whether or not they should be split, while you just support it without asking whether there's reason to do so, and just make a general "notable Pokémon" description. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:56, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not making anyone look bad and I don't see why I'm required to "ask whether there's a reason to do so". Who am I going to ask? There's no authority on the matter. As for my "notable Pokémon", I didn't list any in particular because I'm not familiar with a whole lot of them, I was just agreeing that some are notable enough to warrant their own article. If I was going to list some, I'd say (on top of the few we have): Legendary Birds, Lucario, Pichu (maybe), Charmander and/or Charizard, Mudkip (due to the Internet meme), maybe Treecko. Those are the ones that come to mind. Useight (talk) 16:27, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I also think Team Rocket should be a separate article. Useight (talk) 16:32, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

If Team Rocket did come back as an article merging Meowth into it might be a better option than a stand alone article for him: there's Meowth, and then there's Rocket's Meowth even in some of the games, and the character is more recognizable in that format than the general one.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:46, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

"Secondary source, IIRC cited source does not mention Mewtwo as a character that appeals to boys, making claim OR" It actually mentioned him in the same context as Gengar as one popular for boys. Check google books. The others are on context (i.e. the forum topic cited for the poll itself, and made by IGN's site staff, so how does that differ from a poll on a website?) which I don't think you checked for each given the oh-so-colorful list, though if IMDB and TV.com are unreliable I'll get replacements if you can point out alternatives. Also weren't statements on a character in commentary about the whole of a fictional work considered citable for the character via (the still disputed) WP:FICT? The reviewers are commenting directly on the character in question, even if the whole of the review is about the film.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 05:57, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Though I will add quite bluntly that you are right on one thing: there isn't really anything for any of them. Mewtwo, Pikachu, and Jigglypuff are probably the only ones when the dust settles that could even survive as articles and have enough to go with for them. We've barely got development information for any of them in the end.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 06:00, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Talking about Mewtwo, did you guys read the Literary analysis part? It's interesting in a... comical way. It's almost like the text wants to convince the reader that there is a philosophical depth in Mewtwo (while there isn't). It highlights very specific opinions, and it makes me think of forum shopping really. Cheers, Face 12:24, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

It highlighted opinions on both sides though. It didn't help that the Japanese version of the film was rather different than the American version (in more than one source cited in there that's mentioned as being done to make him more a recognizable villain...I can dig up that quote if you want). But the opinions cited there were all the citable ones tossed out, good or bad. So fi you want to complain that I must be engaging in one opinion over another, present sources. Also I don't think forum shopping means exactly what you think it does given the text...--Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:56, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Forum shopping is highlighting specific opinions, in order to proof that many people have that opinion. The part reminded me of it because it gives very specific quotes, in order to proof that many people think there is a philosophical depth. But I think there isn't any, and I think most people think that. I believe that most people see Mewtwo as just another villian, and the movie as just another anime. There isn't really anything to analyse.
By the way, you are right about the American Mewtwo being different than the Japanese Mewtwo. That adaption was part of the 'localisation' proces in which they adapted the movie to the culture of America. Information about that would fit better in the First Movie article however. Cheers, Face 21:18, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

That sounds a lot more like you're after WP:UNDUE, but I digress. Anyway the quotes were not taken for any preference or attempt to push a minority opinion: the section points out that he was compared readily to a cliche anime villain and even a Bond villain. The people that said contrary just did so more eloquently and concisely. Saying "But I think there isn't any, and I think most people think that. I believe that most people see Mewtwo as just another villian, and the movie as just another anime" is just your opinion. There's no fact to substantiate any of that; it's not any better than TTN coming in here and saying "I don't think any of these characters can be notable". So if people think others are overthinking the subject point me at sources and I'll work it in. Also localization issues have as much bearing on a character as they do in the related media article, especially when other related media to the character abandons said alterations in their own localizations.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:15, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

My feelings about Bulbasaur are quickly becoming legendary, and those feelings are based on the fact that its sourcing looks about the same as Mewtwo's ... it just doesn't meet the guidelines at WP:N. There aren't multiple, independent, third-party sources that address Bulbasaur directly and in detail. If articles are resurrected before sources are found, they won't be any better. I think approaching this problem from the perspective of This is the list of Pokemon I'd like to resurrect is backwards. There's nothing wrong with resurrecting any of the individual articles if there are independent third-party sources that address that particular Pokemon directly and in detail. I think a more fruitful strategy would be to start from sourcing: find any third-party sources (not Nintendo licensed or published, not fan-sites) that deal directly with any specific Pokemon. Take note of which ones they discuss. Once you find a good group of sources, any and all Pokemon that are addressed in multiple sources can be resurrected. Please don't resurrect articles before finding sources.—Kww(talk) 18:08, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

As we all know, all of these articles were once above stub class, and were generally fairly well written. I don't think that merging all of them into giant lists was such a good idea in the first place, because it removes content, and is harder on some browsers/connections to load all of it. Additionally all of that content is still on the wikimedia servers, and can easily be restored, instead of having 500 or so links to several long and not very high quality articles. It was kind of silly to take one or two Featured Articles, and dump their contents into part of a list Yamakiri _C § 10-5-2008 • 18:47:42

They weren't featured articles. They got essentially the same examination I just gave to Mewtwo and everyone realized how poor the sourcing really was.

What was "lost" wasn't in any sense useful content. It was speculation, conjecture, and just plain nonsense. The lists suck, but the lists suck not because they are missing something that can be added but because there is little to say. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 19:40, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Just a comment that Bulbasaur and Torchic were in fact featured articles. Artichoker 19:44, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

But again you didn't even bother to check the context of it: you just went "this sucks for so and so" and wrote it off (no offense meant by that, and I really hope you don't mean "everyone" in the context to that given Face seems to like trouble and Kww's stance is pretty well known (no offense to him either)). Additionally nobody every said the article was done, I'm still digging around for sources and things; I just want to get Mewtwo to A class and move onto Jigglypuff (also while I'm here gotta repeat: do you have anything I can cite as an alt to TV.com and IMDB? I'd rather nip those now).--Kung Fu Man (talk) 19:48, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

To end this discussion, let's just start working on pages on user pages. No Pokémon sans Pikachu has enough reliable sourcing to warrant an article, so we shouldn't make the articles then establish notability - however, nothing wrong with putting it on your user page. So I reckon Mewtwo should be userfied to Kung Fu Man's user page, and I'll take Bulbasaur and work on that, and whatever others want to work on, and we'll try to form a consensus once users agree that certain articles have succeeded in warranting an article and has enough sources. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:21, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

That seems pointless unless its to fix the formatting of what is in the pages (which really should be done). Incubating them on userpages only prevents fire from guys who scream to merge anything, and I'm pretty sure three of the four people here that had criticisms will no matter what even if the Pope gave some statement saying he loved Bulbasaur. TTN will want to merge everything, Face represented the "it's just pokemon so it's not important" argument, and Kww's got an extremely high standard for notability. Out of all that AMiB pointed out some flaws in the sourcing that are easy to fix (excluding what he didn't check regarding the context). So to end this, duck and run just doesn't look like it'll cut it. If the project has articles that needs improving, using this page to build things up would be a good idea.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:49, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

The flaws I see with the sourcing is that the sources seem to say that we should restructure this article to be about Mewtwo, the antagonist of Pokémon: the First Movie, and possibly merge it to that film's article. Other than that, he's a minor optional boss in two (or three, depending on how you count) games and an unlockable character in another. The sources are often used out of context, are concentrated heavily in one single section, and much of the article is nonsense.

Mewtwo illustrates the problems with these articles, in the same way the Torchic and Bulbasaur FARs did. Nobody is talking about these characters the way we're talking about them, and this is a problem. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 10:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Team Rocket (specifically Jesse, James and Meowth)

This one might be tricky: While I do strongly think the characters should get their own article, and there are some sources to support such, just where would it point to? Team Rocket is the current target and really the "iconic" name for the trio, so reviving it there with a disambig link to the crime syndicates article if the subject is revived may be the best bet. Keep in mind while tags are up, this is entirely hypothetical and to promote discussion on the subject.

So...thoughts?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:26, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

• I think Jessie, James, Butch, Cassidy, etc. should be merged in the Team Rocket article. But Meowth should have its own article because it's notable outside Team Rocket. Tezkag72 (talk) 17:54, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Not really. There are a few sources, but the majority are discussing him directly in the context of Team Rocket. Additionally the generic pokemon Meowth isn't very important like I said earlier, just the one with Jessie and James. Also going to bring up Butch and Cassidy are too minor and "secondary" to really warrant anything, as they're more foils for the series's foils than full characters with reception.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Similarily, the generic Pokémon Pikachu isn't very important, it's just Ash's Pikachu. Because it's Ash who made Pikachu the image that represents Pokémon. But Pikachu still has its own article (last time I checked), and with this logic, it seems that Meowth should have its own page, too. In fact, it's Ash's encounters with any Pokémon that makes them popular. So every Pokémon should have its own page, in my opinion. ★ QuackOfaThousandSuns (Talk) ★ 21:06, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it was definitely not Ash who made Pikachu as possible as it is. Ash doesn't even really exist. Pikachu is such an icon now because of how the world took to it. Ash was just a vehicle to this end. Therefore, your logic falls apart. Tempest115 (talk) 22:15, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, what you said about Ash and Pikachu is true; but the same could be said for Team Rocket and Meowth, right? And, yes, Ash doesn't exist, but neither do Pokémon or Team Rocket or Sinnoh or Kanto or Pokéballs or any of the things in the Pokémon universe. ★ QuackOfaThousandSuns (Talk) ★ 20:31, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Explain.Negabandit86 (talk) 14:35, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

its best for you to not even comment if you don't bother reading the rest of it./--Jakezing (talk) 15:43, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Deoxys

Hi, I created a Deoxys article, and it just got deleted. I know it's more notable than, say, Lombre or Magcargo. TTN told me to come here and state my place. So, WTF?!? Tezkag72 (talk) 17:51, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Well was going to tell you on your talk page, but been busy. Either way, the Deoxys article isn't a great idea. It's got the anime movie, a brawl cameo and the NASA bit, but discussion about it in published sources is extremely low. It's more notable than the others, just there doesn't look like there'd be enough for an article.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Human Characters

does this discussion include un-merging the human characters from "list of pokemon anime characters" back to individual articles? Brendankm (talk) 18:51, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Most likely no. Artichoker 20:16, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Unmerging ALL characters could be unreasonable

Some notable stuff (such as legendaries or Mudkip) may deserve their own articles, but unmerging unimportant stuff (such as Orre) may be a waste of space. Mydoctor93 (talk) 07:15, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

SIHULM regardless, Mudkip doesn't have anything in the way of WP:RS - no reception to the character, no brainstorming ditty, nada. Just Anonymous, who is as reliable a source as the Onion. I do agree, however, that unmerging the fancruft is only going to cause more problems which Misplaced Pages, as a whole, doesn't need (especially as it's still trying to deal with the ongoing inclusionist/deletionist wars from the E&C arbcom case, which affects us as well). -Jéské Couriano 10:05, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Question on two articles

I know next to nothing about Pokemon, so I'm hoping someone here can look at a couple of new articles and weigh in. This is how the Gary oaks arcanine article looked before I changed it to a redirect to Arcanine. My question on this article is was this a legitimate attempt to write an article about Arcanine (involving a fictional character named Gary Oaks), or is this someone writing about his own pokemon (from a game perhaps?), in which case this should be deleted, not redirected.

Also Gary oak's cheerleaders has similar issues. Is this a legitimate fictional concept in pokemon, or someone writing about their own play experience (perhaps with a bit of wishful thinking...).

See, I told you all I know nothing about Pokemon. Once you can catch your breath from laughing at how little I know, please take a look and help out. Thanks! :) --Fabrictramp | talk to me 20:21, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Your redirect of Gary oaks arcanine (which isn't even spelled correctly) was absolutely correct. I have nominated Gary oak's cheerleaders for deletion. Artichoker 21:35, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help!

Is there any need for this anymore?

With Bulbapedia I think it's like milking a dead cow----Ultamatecharizard (talk) 20:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

There are still articles, and Bulbapedia is hardly encyclopedic, it's more of a game guide.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 22:07, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Though, Bulbapedia is more of an encyclopedic game guide than just an encyclopedia or just a game guide.★ QuackOfaThousandSuns (Talk) ★ 22:40, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

There is no proof that the site is a game guide it's better then the info wikipedia has.--CoolPikachu! 02:13, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Dennō Senshi Porygon is a Good Article nominee

Just thought I'd let you know that I have nominated Dennō Senshi Porygon for GA. =) TheLeftorium 15:28, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

And it just passed. ;) TheLeftorium 14:55, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Kudos on that! It's a really good article. Artichoker 21:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I know it's a touchy subject, but: merging Bulbasaur's article into the list?

The article hasn't seen improvement in some time over the issues it has, and new information doesn't seem to be turning up to buffer it further. Merging it at least for now may be a good option. Any thoughts?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:45, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm afraid if it got merged for now, we'd never get around to bringing it back. Should we just work on it instead? It is a B, at least, not a stub or anything. kag₇₂ 17:39, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Well it's really closer to C to be honest, given that there isn't that much info for the sections necessary for B-class. The thing with Bulbasaur is he's faded a bit more into obscurity compared to Pikachu/Jigglypuff/Mewtwo/Mew, and I'm just not sure if there are any more sources really coming to the article. If it does get merged and sources do turn up, it can be revived as needed easily. Anyone gives hassle we can point out readily this project was the one to merge it and choose to instead unmerge it due to new material.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:55, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

The main problem with attempting to merge it is the small number of people that won't let go of the fact that it was once a featured article under quite lax standards. I certainly tried it a number of times with very little luck. I would suggest getting people from the video game project to comment because you'll probably need some numbers behind the consensus, though people may have stopped caring at this point. TTN (talk) 19:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd rather keep this in this project anyway, cleaner to handle if things do turn up like source books and whatnot (one for example was released for Disgaea 2 just recently) so restoration is a hassle free process or in the case of opposing one the issue can be handled easier.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 19:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

So what exactly are the issues with the Bulbasaur article? I'd like to know so I can maybe help fix them. I would rather avoid merging right now. Artichoker 19:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Well there isn't much in the way of stand alone development or reception. There's sufficient info to show that the character is important in the material related to it, but in a real-world sense it's different from, say, Pikachu. There's not enough to really show that by itself there's a cultural impact with the info at hand.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 20:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

It seems like a fairly good article to me, plus it has a lot of sources.IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 16:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

PTCG

Well the wiki coverage of PTCG was pretty small and broad. So much stuff, sets, cards and very few articles. So i started an article: List of Cards in Pokémon Trading Card Game Set Base Set Sets have so much information about them and all they had in wiki was a small paragraph. So i was going to add more, with proper sorces n everything, starting with the base set. Like Card list, with rarity and all that punk. Booster pack and theme decks information.

What you think?...IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 21:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

If everything is sourced, then I think it's a good idea. Artichoker 22:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah it is a great idea.... although i can see some pro-deleter wiki user nominating it just cause thats what those annoying ppl do..... IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 10:43, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. It does violate a few grounds, namely Misplaced Pages:NOT#INFO. It's just not something that's really needed for an encyclopedia, to the point there's a full discussion about why on the Video game project's talk page.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 01:27, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Well its up for deletion now....

List of Cards in Pokémon Trading Card Game Set Base Set so um.... didnt get to add the theme decks indepth bit... —Preceding unsigned comment added by IAmTheCoinMan (talk • contribs) 09:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Well the issue is you apparently wrote the article like a guide instead of, well, an article. That violates quite a few policies all around.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 09:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's probably going to fail. And it really deosn't fit the notability guidelines. Why would the average reader care what cards are in the set when they can just go look it up on a Pokémon site like ? kag₇₂ 01:28, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Bug with Template:Pokeproject

Just a shout, C-class articles are being counted in the unassessed category as well.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 01:49, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Alright, I think I fixed it, as well as fixed the List category.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:27, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Templates..

What is the point of having Template:Pokémon films, Template:Pokémon games and Template:Pokemon media? Films template has the same or mostly similar information, as well as the games template, as the media template. Having two templates on game related, or film related article would be absolutely useless. --staka (T) 01:50, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Good point. I think they should be merged. --TheLeftorium 00:00, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Can someone merge? --staka (T) 00:32, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, nothing needs to be merged. Template:Pokemon media already contains everything of Template:Pokémon games and Template:Pokémon films. The only two things {{Pokemon media}} lacks is that it does not contain years, and the films are not grouped by 'generation' ("Original series", "Advanced Generation", and "Diamond and Pearl"). If no one complains, I will replace all {{Pokémon games}} and {{Pokémon films}} with {{Pokemon media}}. After that, I will take the two superseded templates to TfD. Is that ok? Cheers, Face 13:46, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Also, why not rename {{Pokemon media}} to {{Pokemon}}, or {{Pokémon}}? Cheers, Face 13:47, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

That is okay with me. Another user did the fix up with years and such.. I think (according to bottom discussion). So we could just move Pokemon media to just Pokémon. --staka (T) 20:52, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Yep. MelicansMatkin also seems to agree with it. I've asked Jéské Couriano (who is an admin). Cheers, Face 21:01, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Done as regards the deletions, moving it as we speak. -Jéské Couriano 22:40, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Alright, all Done. Note that I had to delete "Template:Pokemon" first because it was a redirect to one of the deleted templates, and that I used the version sans diacritics (i.e. the "e" is not accented) for easier use. -Jéské Couriano 22:42, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

My thanks to you for doing that, Jéské. MelicansMatkin (talk) 23:33, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Null persp, chummer. (still holding out for the Scout pack) -Jéské Couriano 04:20, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't we title it {{Pokémon}} instead of {{Pokemon}}? It's the spelling we use most, and it's also the title of the article. Cheers, Face 11:56, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Well as Jeske said, spelling it simply as "Pokemon" is simpler for many people (myself included), and I don't think it's really necessary to rename it so soon. Besides, I believe Template:Pokemon redirects to Template:Pokémon, so in either case the same result would show. MelicansMatkin (talk) 15:00, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Correct. Not everyone knows how to type in diacritics (I cheat and use Firefox and abcTajpu to do this). In fact, User:Jeske Couriano redirs to my userpage (after I jacked the SUL from Jarlaxle) because it's not likely a layman would know how to type in the "é"s. -Jéské Couriano 10:59, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok then, one more thing: do you think the template should be collapsed by default? I made it like that, but Ryulong thought it "doesn't help". Afaik, all big templates are by default collapsed, so why shouldn't this one be? Cheers, theFace 18:39, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Just collapse it.. --staka (T) 20:48, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Or you could incorporate something that's in Template:Carnivora where there are multiple collapsible sections of which one is open on the article you are looking at.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 23:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Indeed a cool template. But Template:Pokemon is too small to have such collapsible sections, and at the same time too big to be uncollapsed. I think it's more neat if it's collapsed by default. Cheers, theFace 18:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, this Pokemon template is even smaller than most of the collapsed sections in that template. --staka (T) 20:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Pokémon, I Choose You!

Just thought I'd let you know that I have recreated the "Pokémon, I Choose You!" article with a production and a reception section. I hope everyone is okay with this, because in my opinion the episode is notable. Also, I'm planning on getting it to GA status, so I'll be working more on it in the next couple of days. —TheLeftorium 00:00, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

How is this episode more notable than any other episode? Just because it's the first episode? As far as I'm aware, it has very little (if any) third-party sources that would classify it as being notable. (Though I must admit that you did a very good job of writing the article; I'm not sure that all the information on the Porygon episode is necessarily relevant, however.) MelicansMatkin (talk) 03:27, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

I would definitely trim down that info about the Porygon episode: it's enough just to say that it came up before the anime hit stateside and the effects of it, and doesn't need to be drawn in full detail into the article to that degree. Regardless I think you have a decent start. I would check some bits of your reception though (Why is Ho-oh's appearance relative on the whole and not just to the individual episode?)--Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:54, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I have trimmed down the Porygon information. Kung Fu Man, I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the reception section and Ho-Oh's appearance, can you explain a bit more? —TheLeftorium 10:09, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, meant this line to be more exact: "X-Entertainment considered the best part of the episode to be the moment when Ash spots the mysterious Ho-Oh, a Pokémon whose data was not included in the Pokédex." It feels oddly out of place. Probably better too to not cite that statement, as looking at the site it doesn't look like all that hot of a source.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:39, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

It sounds fine to me, and X-Entertainment seems to be a reliable source. By the way, if this article becomes a GA and if List of Pokémon episodes (season 1) ever becomes an FL, we would have a nice Featured topic. Future goal maybe? ;) —TheLeftorium 19:24, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Also, thanks for the copyedits Artichoker and MelicansMatkin. —TheLeftorium 19:26, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Film template

I posted this over at Template talk:Pokémon films, but figured I'd get a faster response if I posted here. It's just a general query as it is something I am unfamiliar with, but is it policy for the title of each movie to be in italics in the template, or just how it was edited? MelicansMatkin (talk) 03:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Movies should always be in italics, right? Artichoker 19:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking. MelicansMatkin (talk) 19:59, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, movies should be in italics. But I suggested yesterday to delete Template:Pokémon films (as well as Template:Pokémon games) because it is superseded by Template:Pokemon media. What do you guys think of that? - Face 15:20, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd have no objection to that. MelicansMatkin (talk) 18:20, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and added in the years for the films in Template:Pokemon media, as well as the generation splits for those films. I also went ahead and substituted the dividing dots with ones that can be seen more clearly. Hope it looks good with everyone. MelicansMatkin (talk) 18:35, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Template (again)

Looking over Template:Pokemon, it strikes me that all of the emphasis here is on the games and anime. But I know that there are articles on at least the various manga and the TCG - possibly even on the TFG, though I'm not sure on that last one. I'm not knowledgeable on any of those aspects of the franchise, but would somebody who is be able to add them to the template? Should they be added? Your thoughts?

In addition, I'd also recommend deletion of Template:Pokémon anime characters and Template:Pokémon Gym Leaders, as these are now entirely superceded by Template:Pokemon. Your thoughts on this? MelicansMatkin (talk) 03:17, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I went ahead and added the manga and TCG to Template:Pokemon; it wasn't as difficult as I'd first thought to find the articles. However, I'd still like to discuss deletion of Template:Pokémon anime characters and Template:Pokémon Gym Leaders; any thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MelicansMatkin (talk • contribs) at 15:50, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Both templates can go. Unless someone protests, I'll leave Jeske another plea tomorrow. - theFace 18:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Don't bother. Nuking now. -Jéské Couriano 10:56, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

*kaboom* Thank you! - theFace 20:11, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Dashes

Gary King just retitled all the Pokémon lists, changing the dashes from - to –. I found this odd, and left him a message about it. Cheers, theFace 21:41, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

He contacted me, it's ok. Cheers, theFace 21:57, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Get an FA

I think this project should focus some of its attention on one of its good articles and try to improve it to featured status. It wouldn't take very long, and it's a big milestone for any WikiProject that hasn't done it already, and it will help this project get more respect. What say you to this idea? (I would suggest Pokémon Diamond and Pearl as it seems the closest already.) Tezkag72_{私のはかい} 00:54, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Type matchups

Hello. I have a posted a type-matchups table on my userpage. I hope it is of use.--O'DELAQUATIQUE (talk) (contributions) (e-mail) 19:05, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group

Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. — Delievered by §hepBot (Disable) on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 06:18, 28 February 2009 (UTC)