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#'''Oppose'''. Does not assume good faith, and per Folantin above. -- ] (]) 11:44, 1 April 2009 (UTC) #'''Oppose'''. Does not assume good faith, and per Folantin above. -- ] (]) 11:44, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
#'''Strong Oppose''' I very rarely oppose, especially when as in this case the candidate is a good article writer. However Ottava's temperament as demonstrated by a long block record is not right for adminship. I'm prepared to disregard blocks from more than 12 months ago, even 12 months and 2 days ago, but that still leaves three blocks in the last twelve months from three different admins. Communication skills or style are also inadequate, as demonstrated by the candidates stated unwillingness to enter into dialogue with !voters in their own RFA. There's also a separate but equally serious issue, the candidates postings on ] have displayed a deeply inappropriate understanding of the role of an admin; the candidate is trying to move Misplaced Pages to having a small group of fulltime admins who disengage from the community and don't take part in its deliberations. I take the contrary view that as many civil, experienced and cluefull editors should be made admins as can be persuaded to pick up the mop, and in this way we can be a self administering community where the burden of administration is widespread and the administration does not disengage from the community because it is inextricably part of it. Having a good editor such as this candidate want the pedia run by admins who only do admin work saddens me, having an admin with this vision for Misplaced Pages would horrify me. '']]<span style="color:DarkOrange">Chequers''</span> 11:59, 1 April 2009 (UTC) #'''Strong Oppose''' I very rarely oppose, especially when as in this case the candidate is a good article writer. However Ottava's temperament as demonstrated by a long block record is not right for adminship. I'm prepared to disregard blocks from more than 12 months ago, even 12 months and 2 days ago, but that still leaves three blocks in the last twelve months from three different admins. Communication skills or style are also inadequate, as demonstrated by the candidates stated unwillingness to enter into dialogue with !voters in their own RFA. There's also a separate but equally serious issue, the candidates postings on ] have displayed a deeply inappropriate understanding of the role of an admin; the candidate is trying to move Misplaced Pages to having a small group of fulltime admins who disengage from the community and don't take part in its deliberations. I take the contrary view that as many civil, experienced and cluefull editors should be made admins as can be persuaded to pick up the mop, and in this way we can be a self administering community where the burden of administration is widespread and the administration does not disengage from the community because it is inextricably part of it. Having a good editor such as this candidate want the pedia run by admins who only do admin work saddens me, having an admin with this vision for Misplaced Pages would horrify me. '']]<span style="color:DarkOrange">Chequers''</span> 11:59, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
#'''Strongest possible oppose''' Never. — ] <span style="color: #999;">//</span>&nbsp;] 12:35, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


=====Neutral===== =====Neutral=====

Revision as of 12:35, 1 April 2009

Ottava Rima

Nomination

Voice your opinion (talk page) (17/14/0); Scheduled to end 03:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Ottava Rima (talk · contribs) – Yes, this may seem like a joke because everyone else has a joke RfA and this is me. However, if you want the joke version of the RfA, see this user space page. It was designed to have fun. I decided that we could separate the more jokey stuff to that and keep this serious. Regardless - Most of you may know me. If you've never heard of me, well, I don't know what to say. I oppose a lot of RfA's, I've been involved in some of the most controversial incidents, and I have quite a few people who have expressed their hatred towards me on and off Misplaced Pages. It happens. It also happens that this RfA page was receiving many views even though it was not created before today. People want to see how I would do at an RfA apparently. Yes, I've been pressured by a lot of people to run. Do I really want the job? Well, decide for yourself. Ask whatever questions you want. If you want followups, I would suggest you simply linking to the talk page so a conversation can happen there. If you want to oppose me, feel free. I wont hold anything against anyone nor challenge it. If other people want to badger opposers (or even badger supporters!) that's fine. I'm staying out of it. Ottava Rima (talk) 03:14, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

P.S. If you joke support me don't expect to be able to strike it tomorrow. :P Ottava Rima (talk) 03:31, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Misplaced Pages as an administrator. It is recommended that you answer these optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What administrative work do you intend to take part in?
A: I don't like to block people. I don't like to delete pages that people work on. I have no problem voicing an opinion in these areas, but they have always left a bad taste in my mouth. What tools would I use? Well, I would definitely use the ability to read deleted pages to help in reviewing problems, helping those to create new articles without the previous one's problem, and other similar things. I would also use that ability to help with history merges. I would use the tools to edit protected pages when it is necessary and also to protect pages (example - images on the mainpage, which get neglected). I would use the tools as leverage to discuss unblocks with other admin, in advocating for users where no one else is willing to defend, and participating in ArbCom enforcement to ensure that there is fair treatment on all sides. I would also help out in Conflict of Interest cases. I would not work unilaterally, and my previous experience with sysop tools always involved constant communication with others while performing actions.
2. What are your best contributions to Misplaced Pages, and why?
A: I don't really like this question. I never had, and I never will. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia. As such, good contributors should be in the background and invisible. Its not about "me me me" after all. I believe that too many problems come from people thinking only of their best contributions and ignoring the point of the place. If you want to see what I do, check my contribs or my user page. If you want to see what admin work I perform, go look at my wikiversity logs.
3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
A: I've probably stepped on most people's toes. I'm sure the opposes will come up with new and exciting things to look at, so, here's to them. Now, I will state that I will not respond to the opposes. I believe that the opposes have their right to express their views. So, enjoy.
4. What is the difference between a block and a ban?
A: I was involved in a ban on a user at Wikiversity. It was a nasty situation. It took a lot of discussion and involved Jimbo's help. The user continued to use multiple ISPs to come back and continue plaguing the community. I really hate bans. I find them necessary sometimes, but only as a last resort and only when people are willing to go all the way to ensure that the individual cannot come back. Indef blocks and bans tend to fuel sock puppetry and users doing whatever they can to try and get revenge. Blocks don't necessary have this result. I don't like blocks either, but I can see a time and a purpose for them. Many are too harsh, and some are too light. The worse blocks are those done unilaterally and by an admin who refuses to talk to other admin or the blocked user. Lack of communication only encourages problematic behavior.
5. Would you delete the mainpage?
A: Yes, for 100 dollars. I would block Jimbo for 200 dollars or any member of ArbCom for 500 dollars. Furthermore, I would delete all pages on Intelligent Design, Scientology, Ayn Rand, or any current politician for free simply to remove all the constant fighting from the community. (I kept this in for fun :) ).
Optional question from Dank55
6. Can you give an example where you might "advocat for users where no one else is willing to defend"?
A: There are many users that I have vouched for, defended, or other such things throughout Misplaced Pages. I have gone out of my way to call for neutrality in situations involving high profile individuals like Mattisse, OrangeMarlin, and Giano II to just random ANI people who seem to be ganged up on, have had people call for Indef blocks way too soon, or other such situations. I spent a lot of time with DGG trying to ensure that one user was not run off the project in a manner that would normally encourage sock puppetry reprisals just a few months ago. I have defended those like Malleus or DougsTech. I have spent time on forums, talk pages, email, and chatrooms discussing with many admin trying to get blocks to be toned down, situations resolved, and the rest. I'm sure there are plenty of situations that I have left out.
Optional question from Jeandré
7. What do you think of April fools edits like on the Main page: de-admin, block, undo, nothing, leave a barnstar, other?


General comments

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/Ottava Rima before commenting.

Discussion

Support
  1. Support for epic lulz. Nice chap, too; calls a spade a spade (or WP:DICK a WP:DICK). Ironholds (talk) 03:25, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  2. Support Personally I think you are a WP:DICK, but I am sure we can find things we both can agree on. Lucifer (Talk) 03:29, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  3. Support per the IRC cabal, der. Seriously though, I admire users who have stepped on toes. I think people who haven't stepped on any toes probably haven't got into any disputes, which I could see as an issue down the road. How can you solve a dispute if you haven't been in one yourself. Personally, I believe that there are far too many admins who haven't had any run-ins with disputes, whether being personally involved or being an outside helper (ie WP:MEDCAB). I think learning from past experiences is best, but there are far too many admins who have no experience whatsoever in solving disputes and would probably be clueless when they encounter a dispute (and hey, we have them every day). So, uh, yeah. For not being afraid to step on a few toes, I support you. While what you've done has most likely been in an effort to further the interests of the community, I still think this RFA will not succeed. Either way, I want my opinion to be clearly known. We need more admins who are willing to step on a few toes, to get the job done. We, as a community, need to change our rationale to support users in RFA from "Have they annoyed me/anyone, at any stage in their wiki-career, to "Are they fit to be an administrator? Do they have the experience and skills required to be an admin?". In my opinion, to Ottava, that question answers a Yes. (And sure, he's had his fair share of fuck-ups, but haven't we all?.) Ottava would be a net positive to the project as an admin, and if all else fails, we have ways to deal with issues down the track if need be. What's to lose? Steve Crossin :  Chat  03:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  4. Serious support - Ottava Rima may be a distasteful name in many members of the community's mouths, but while he can be a drama-whore at times and a troll at others, Ottava does do a substantial amount of positive work here, as witnessed by Samuel Johnson, Rosalind Picard and Nicolò Giraud. The first, which Ottava is a substantial contributor to, is now a featured article; the second was a heavily disputed biography of a living person that he was involved on and helped bridge the conflicting sides, and the third was one that he was involved in a heavy dispute with a person who wanted the individual to be described as a pederast.
    I've been in a dispute with him before during the FAC for USS Connecticut (BB-18), but his checking of the prose for plagiarism, no matter how much I hated him doing it, he did make the article better in the end. Since then, I've had him check two other articles I have written for the same problems, and his efforts were extremely beneficial to the articles in question.
    I don't think that anyone can dispute that Ottava does good here on the project, and that's what you should be voting on. Could he do better with civility? Of course; I don't think anyone would say he couldn't. Do you think he would block or use his admin powers in a dispute in which he is a party in? No. Would he use the tools wisely? As evidenced by Wikiversity, yes. Would he be a net positive as an admin? I think so—the drama-ing will come up whether he is an admin or not, so the I believe that addition of the mop can and will only be a net positive for the project. —Ed 17 03:33, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  5. Support Until It Sleeps :  Chat  03:35, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  6. Support Is this meant to be a joke? Either way, I support. -download | sign! 03:39, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    Ottava Rima has indicated that this is indeed a legitimate request. –Juliancolton |  03:43, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  7. Support per Idi. Durova 03:44, 1 April 2009 (UTC)\
    This is apparently a serious request. Should your support be taken seriously? Hipocrite (talk) 03:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    And how many supports in regular RfA's are taken seriously? I can name at least 30 supports that mention food, or something similar. Synergy 04:22, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    Have I been editing today in a way that appears nonserious? Durova 05:06, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  8. Strong Support Surprisingly, I support this. The user is a net positive to any project that he is involved in, and he could do serious good with the mop. Watching him occasionally inspires me to come back to Misplaced Pages and edit, and he's a nice enough guy to talk to and interact with, even when he does step on toes. Sure, I've argued with him before, and I'll probably do it again, but he's got good points, and in my opinion which stems in part from my admin experience on Wiktionary excellent judgement. --Neskaya talk 03:48, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  9. Support All joking aside, I didn't ever expect to say this--OR and I had a particularly heated encounter over something that spilled from here to Commons once--but for all his faux bluster, he's often one of the lone voices of reason in many, many, many, many heated debates. Does he sprinkle that reason with extra cayenne pepper sometimes? Yes. But so do I--I try to be a smart-ass about it, OR goes in with firing off flare guns. Does it get the Right Point across? Yes. Do I support him? Yes. rootology :  Chat  03:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  10. Ottava's a he? I always thought of OR as a female's name... anyways... I doubt this RfA will pass, and can't believe Ottava honestly expects it to pass either, but I do believe that OR has the best interest of WP at heart---even if he (?) can be a... consider this a Moral Support.---I'm Spartacus! 04:06, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  11. Support - (1) I believe he has the project's best interests at heart. (2) Edit tools are extremely useful for content contributors, and I strongly resent the split between 'content contributors' and 'admins', this isn't rocket science and we are all in this together. Plenty of FA wirters are admins, 'crats and arb members, (3) Yes he has had some temperament issues, but I am positive he will be watched closely for misuse of tools. Given that I believe there is a better than 50% chance OR will be a significant net positive, so let's give him ago. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:40, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  12. Support - (moved from oppose) despite my lame Apr 1 oppose, I would have no issues with this user as an administrator. ∗ \ / (⁂) 05:00, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    Felt that I should elaborate on this support. Basically, the civility issues are worrying, and I have been on the opposite side of an argument with him and found him to be extremely irritating. However, I trust that he has enough sense to preform the low-risk duties stated in Q1 without causing issues. He may be trollish at times, but he has shown during his tenure at Wikiversity that he does care about this project, and he is able to yield the tools responsibly. ∗ \ / (⁂) 08:37, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  13. Support An admin who is prepared to fight his corner against a prevailing tide can be a great thing if it makes the rest of us pause and perhaps better consider our position. OR's position on what he would and wouldn't do also makes it clear this isn't a power trip. --GedUK  07:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  14. Oppose for a reason I haven't thought up yet. tfeSil (aktl) 08:26, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  15. Supporrt iMatthew :  Chat  10:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  16. Support A shoutout to my man Ottava, who is NOT an admin lickspittle like so many molluscs who I've seen slither onto this page. If elected (like that would ever happen, LOL) Ottava would be like an editor's advocate right in the middle of the admin corps. He would not be afraid to unblock users blocked by arbitrary, capricious, moronic admins who should be pushing a mop (literally: cleaning the toilets at McDonalds). He's got his idiosyncrasies and he'd make mistakes so we'd have to keep a close eye on him, but the net benefit would greatly outweigh any damage he'd cause.--Goodmorningworld (talk) 10:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  17. Support Well informed of the role, isn't going to be intimidated by anyone. Sure, he "lacks restraint" now and then, but I think that can be a good attribute in certain cases—this being one of them. —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 10:32, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  18. Support Yes Ottava is brusque and has a bad temper, but has a CLUE and there's no reason to think he'd abuse tools; in fact adminship might take the "rough edge" off. Remember WP:NBD, users who've been here and done all the stuff Ottava's done are supposed to get the bit by default. Ottava, moreover, has so many "enemies" it's difficult to see how, even if he wished to be abusive, he could. Misplaced Pages actually needs admins like Ottava, if only to balance things out a little more. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 12:28, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. Oppose. I see Ottava as one of those people that act as the safety valve to the rest of the community, much like the dissenters who keep the community in check. From experience, though, such users are not very suited to adminship. I do not believe that Ottava has the temperament or the attitude to be an role model and an administrator. While I respect his abilities, I cannot accept the impulsive traits that he has shown through his editing tenure. bibliomaniac15 03:37, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  2. Oppose. Lacks restraint. Hipocrite (talk) 03:38, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  3. Oppose Needs to not add jokes and Too many administrators currently. DougsTech (talk) 03:44, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    This is an actual RFA, not a joke. bibliomaniac15 03:47, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    Simple mentioning anything like that especially in RFA is a joke.DougsTech (talk) 03:49, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    Anything like what? Ironholds (talk) 03:50, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    "Yes, for 100 dollars. I would block Jimbo for 200 dollars or any member of ArbCom for 500 dollars. Furthermore, I would delete all pages on Intelligent Design, Scientology, Ayn Rand, or any current politician for free simply to remove all the constant fighting from the community. (I kept this in for fun :) )." Like that. He obvoiusly does not think it's serious enough. Sadly this is becoming more common among the admins. DougsTech (talk) 03:52, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    Sadly? Admins are far too serious, from what I see currently. X! :  Chat  03:54, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    "more common"? Well then surely he should be made one, if he now fits in the common mould quite nicely. Admins are not meant to be humourless, paper-pushing hardarses; a sense of humour and fun is allowed, today of all days. Still, any sane crat will discount your standard oppose anyway, so arguing is a waste of time. Ironholds (talk) 03:54, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    Yes, you are wasting your (and everyones) time arguing here.DougsTech (talk) 03:56, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  4. Oppose - Echo concerns about temperament and lack of restraint as raised by raised by bibliomaniac15 and Hipocrite. Cirt (talk) 04:03, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  5. I am actually of the belief that our best article writers should not become admins. Why? Well, for each deletion batch they're doing is another chunk of article that goes unwritten. It's easier to find people to close XfDs and block peeps then it is to find genuine article writers. This o vote is so that Ottava can do what best not just for the 'pedia, but for himself. Wizardman :  Chat  04:13, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  6. Oppose. Great contributions, but I question whether OR has the, er, social skills for the position. In many ways, an administrator is the wiki- equivalent of a customer service representative.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 04:43, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    Oppose - Not enough article contributions. ∗ \ / (⁂) 04:55, 1 April 2009 (UTC) Moving to support ∗ \ / (⁂) 04:59, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  7. Oppose From what I have seen of OR, I just don't see them having the patience to deal with the silliness that admins must patiently deal with every day. They have very strong views, which is great, we need people to provide different viewpoints here, I just worry that they could come off too strong. Since RfA is essentially an endorsement of a user, I just don't feel comfortable endorsing a user which I feel can be a bit too strong at times. --Terrillja talk 05:37, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  8. Oppose I am very sorry but I don't feel that you are at the point where you can take up the responsibilities of an administrator. For example, this post has me a bit worried about your judgement. In addition, in your first answer you stated, " I would use the tools as leverage to discuss unblocks with other admin..." what leverage do you hope to gain? Discussion plays a vital role in being an administrator and I feel that you would be too quick to go rogue and serve your own purpose. I'm sorry I cannot support you right now. Icestorm815 (talk) 06:52, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  9. Strongest oppose imaginable I can't think of anyone less suited to be an admin. An argumentative time-waster who refuses ever to admit he is in the wrong, Ottava had to be placed under mentorship (to avoid a community ban) from August to December last year . A brief example of his way of going about things can be seen on the talk page of Alfred, Lord Tennyson from February this year where he berates User:Contaldo80 for removing the edits of a blatant vandal/copyright violating SPA Jordie0108 (talk · contribs). Ottava claims Contaldo80 doesn't have "consensus" to revert such trolling. Read the rest of the conversation. Ottava doesn't seem to have a clue about policy but he is, as Contaldo80 says, "just argumentative for the sake of it." His inability to suffer contradiction leads him to make personal attacks, such as this rant against Professor John Beer , which is borderline libel. WP:BLP is obviously safe in Ottava's hands. He can also be vindictive. He had a difference of opinion with User:Fowler&fowler over some of his Featured Article Candidates then initiated a check-user investigation against Fowler on the basis of the flimsiest evidence. This incident took place less than two weeks ago. I'm afraid that Ottava might use his admin tools to further his own personal agenda (the "leverage" remark in his answers hardly inspires confidence). --Folantin (talk) 08:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  10. Not only no but hell no Unpleasant temperament. Quick to judge. Willing to make bald accusations in defense of friends. Unable to disengage from disputes. Diffs available upon serious requests but I'm not interested in dredging up a bundle to satisfy idle curiosity. Protonk (talk) 08:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    Do I have to point out the inherent humour in somebody going "hell no, unpleasant temperament"? :P. Ironholds (talk) 08:27, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  11. Reluctant weak oppose - Ottava, I am sorry, I like you. However, you need to tone it down a little. Please run again in the future. — R 09:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  12. Strong oppose - a solid contributor to mainspace, but as other users have observed, is argumentative, reluctant to admit mistakes, prone to bullying (frequently demanding the resignation of admins who challenge his views, for example), offensive violations of WP:NPA (such as questioning the "ethics" of his opponents), and finally, has a rubbery, self-serving take on policy in my experience. Basically, he just seems to love Wikidrama. I also find his stated reasons for wanting the tools not at all persuasive, and indeed, somewhat worrying (as in his comment about using the tools as "leverage" against other admins). Gatoclass (talk) 10:41, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  13. Oppose The comment about leverage has me seriously worried, especially in the context of the editor's argumentative style and tendency to encourage Wikidrama. I hadn't known about the mentorship, but that is also a concern. I too find his style unpleasant. Not at all suitable to be an administrator and as others have suggested, more useful to Misplaced Pages as an editor and maybe as a thorn. :-) Dougweller (talk) 11:28, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  14. Strong Oppose Good article writer, but we need to look at an admin's temperament in order to judge them. Come back here when you learn how to be nice to other people. Meetare Shappy 11:29, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  15. Oppose. Does not assume good faith, and per Folantin above. -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:44, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  16. Strong Oppose I very rarely oppose, especially when as in this case the candidate is a good article writer. However Ottava's temperament as demonstrated by a long block record is not right for adminship. I'm prepared to disregard blocks from more than 12 months ago, even 12 months and 2 days ago, but that still leaves three blocks in the last twelve months from three different admins. Communication skills or style are also inadequate, as demonstrated by the candidates stated unwillingness to enter into dialogue with !voters in their own RFA. There's also a separate but equally serious issue, the candidates postings on wt:rfa have displayed a deeply inappropriate understanding of the role of an admin; the candidate is trying to move Misplaced Pages to having a small group of fulltime admins who disengage from the community and don't take part in its deliberations. I take the contrary view that as many civil, experienced and cluefull editors should be made admins as can be persuaded to pick up the mop, and in this way we can be a self administering community where the burden of administration is widespread and the administration does not disengage from the community because it is inextricably part of it. Having a good editor such as this candidate want the pedia run by admins who only do admin work saddens me, having an admin with this vision for Misplaced Pages would horrify me. ϢereSpielChequers 11:59, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  17. Strongest possible oppose Never. — Aitias // discussion 12:35, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Neutral