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This is a bit of a tough one. Somehow, the article needs to avoid any legal issues around the possibility of getting sued for saying someone was a "soviet spy" when they weren't convicted of being a soviet spy. A lawsuit can only be prevented by a conviction or a confession. Perhaps you could divide the page into two subsections, one for convicted soviet spies and another for disputed soviet spies. Then you could have all the names on one page, but the page would be split into two sections to help avoid a lawsuit. I'm sure there might be other ways to fix this as well, but I can't think of any right now. ] 02:15, 10 November 2005 (UTC) This is a bit of a tough one. Somehow, the article needs to avoid any legal issues around the possibility of getting sued for saying someone was a "soviet spy" when they weren't convicted of being a soviet spy. A lawsuit can only be prevented by a conviction or a confession. Perhaps you could divide the page into two subsections, one for convicted soviet spies and another for disputed soviet spies. Then you could have all the names on one page, but the page would be split into two sections to help avoid a lawsuit. I'm sure there might be other ways to fix this as well, but I can't think of any right now. ] 02:15, 10 November 2005 (UTC)


:It appears that the debate on this is now closed, but having given some thought, I'll reply anyway.

:You may count on my support for any effort to curtail the rampant POV pushing of Cberlet, well as his exploitation of Misplaced Pages for commercial purposes.

:However, two wrongs don't make a right. I am skeptical of the way categories get used, often as yet another form of POV warfare, and I would be more inclined to go with "alleged Soviet spies" or something along those lines. In this case, Cberlet may be the proverbial broken clock that is right twice a day. --] 22:01, 14 November 2005 (UTC)


=Nobs' refusal to edit text and mediator's failure to mediate= =Nobs' refusal to edit text and mediator's failure to mediate=

Revision as of 22:01, 14 November 2005

There is no remembrance of former things;
neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come
with those that shall come after. Ecclesiastes 1:11


David Niles

No. 334, Moscow Center to Mexico City, 20 May 1944. However, for context see especially the previously released message, New York KGB to Moscow, No. 786, 1 June 1944, that mentions that friends of David Niles (a White House staffer) "will arrange anything for a bribe," i.e., get the transit visas for the Fishers.

External links

By H. B. Laes

See also

===Abraham George Silverman=== In 1942 Silverman became civilian chief of analysis and plans to the assistant chief of the Army Air Force Air Staff for Material and Service.

Lauchlin informed Silverman orally 'on various matters' including the possibility that the government was about to break the Soviet code. Harry Dexter White had gave government documents to Silverman. Both men had helped Greg Silvermaster and other Soviet spies obtain or keep government jobs and had used their positions to influence U.S. policies in ways helpful to the Soviet Union.

Certainly Georege Silverman and Silvermaster were able to learn much about U.S. policies and about Currie's and White's own views through their friendship with them. Both at least occasionally obtained copies of government documents, probably from both Currie and White. Currie seems to have been involved in carrying out orders from Roosevelt to get U.S. intelligence services to return Soviet cryptographic documents to the Soviet Union and to cease decoding operations, and he seems to have spoken of it to colleagues, including William Yandell Elliott. Both Currie and White helped Silvermaster keep his job on more than one occasion in 1942 and 1943 when he was attacked for being a communist, though it is reasonable to suppose that they did so because they believed him innocent of any wrongdoing-even if he was sympathetic to leftist and communist causes. (The main reason Silvermaster had come under suspicion was his active involvement in the labor movement in California in the 1930s, in which he associated with leading members of the CPUSA.) And the Soviet Union no doubt found much to like in some of the policy positions taken by Currie and White, even if those positions were taken in order to further U.S. interests. Nothing in this story provides credible evidence of espionage or of an effort to undermine U.S. interests.


Aileron occured in the Venona traffic and was identified as Abraham George Silverman. The “D.” first initial given here may be an error or perhaps based on Silverman generally being known as “George Silverman.” The first letter of the name “George” is rendered in Russian by a Cyrillic letter that is usually Latinized as “Dzh.”

Aileron as a cover name was an obvious reference to Silverman’s Air Force position.

SACB

American League for Peace and Democracy (American league for peace and democracy), 268 Fourth Avenue, New York town center; Chairman: Dr. Harry F. Ward, R. M. Lovett, Earl Browder (General Secretary of the CPUSA), Clarence Hathaway.

Amalgamated Clothing Workers, CIO (union of the workers of the Bekleidungsindustire), 15 union Square, New York town center, president: Sidney Hillmann, Jacob F. Potofsky.

American Association for Social Security (American combination for social welfare assistance), 41 union Square, New York town center, Secretary-General: Abraham Epstein, Bishop F. J. McConnell.

American Civil Liberties Union (American combination for the basic liberties), 31 union Square, New York town center

Dr. Henry F. Ward, Roger N. Baldwin, Arthur Garfield Hays, Robert W. Duenn.

American Federation OF Teachers, Local No. 5 (American teacher combination), 114 East Sixteenth Street, New York town center; Chairman: CJ. Hendly, chairman of the national federation: Rev. Jerome Davis, Dr. Bernhard Stern.

American Committee for the Protection of the Foreign Born, 100 Fifth Ave., New York; Chairman: Rev. Hermann F. Reissig, Charles Right, Carol White King.

American Friends Of the Chinese People (American friends of the Chinese people), 168 west Twenty third Street, New York town center; Chairman: M.S. Stewart, M. Forsyth, Professor R.M. Lovett, George S. Counts.

American Friends Of the Soviet Union (American friends of the Soviet Union), 461 Fourth Avenue, New York town center; Corliss Lamont, treasurer: A.A. More brightly.

American Student Union (American student trade union), 112 East Nineteenth Street, New York town center; Secretary-General: Joseph P. Lash, Celeste Strack (agencies in 300 US colleges)

American Youth Congress, 55 west Forty second Street, New York town center (organize from the communist youth league), chairmen: W. Hinckley, Joseph P. Lash.

Young Communist League (communist youth league), 464 Sixth Avenue, New York town center; Carl Ross, Celeste Srack, Angelo Herndon.

Communist Worker's School, 31 East Twelfth Street, New York town center; Director: A. Markoff, J.R. Brodsky, Dr. H. Selsan, L Boudin, H. Sacker, Irving Schwab

Co-operational League Of the United States Of America (cooperative league of the USA) 167 west Twelfth Street New York town center (Moscow intimate) of chairmen: Dr. J.P. Warbuse

Communist Party of the United States of America, 35 East Twelfth Street, New York town center; Chairman: W.Z. Foster, Secretary-General: Earl Browder. H. Benjamin, W. Weiner, J.W. Ford, A.W. Berry, A. Markoff

Congress Of Industrial Organizations, New York town center Counsel (congress of the Organistionen of the industry, Stadrat of New York), 1133 Broadway, New York town center; National chairmen in the State of New York: John L Lewis, chairman: A.S. Haywood

China Aid Council (advice for China assistance), 268 Fourth Avenue, New York town center; M. Forsyth, J. Waterman Wise, Rabbi S.S. Wise, M. Stewart, Joseph P. Lash, J.P. Davis, O. Lattimore

Communist Worker's Bookshop (communist book shop for workers), 50 East Thirteenth Street, New York town center

Daily Worker ("DAILY Worker"), 50 East Thirteenth, Street New York town center; Herausgeberin: Larence Hathaway

Federated Press 30 Irivng Place New York town center of chairmen: Franc Palmer

Federation Of Architects, Engineers, Chemists and Technicians (CIO), (union of the Architektern, engineers, chemists and technicians); Chairman: L.A. Berne, deputy chairmen: M.E. Scherer

Descendants of the American Revolution (native), (descendants of the American revolution), 126 East Nineteenth Street, New York town center; National chairmen: M. Hatfield, attorney Arthur Garfield Hays

country find (American find for Public service), (support rear for publicly officials), 2 west Thirtheenth Street, New York town center; R. Baldwin, Morris L Ernst

International Labor Defense (Moscow intimate), (international combination to the Verteidung of the workers), 112 East Nineteenth Street, New York town center; Chairman: Vito Marcantonio, J. Brodsky

International Ladies Garment Workers Union (international trade union of the female workers of the clothing industry), 2 west Sixteenth Street, New York town center; Chairman: David Dubinsky

International Publishers (international publishers) 381 Fourth Avenue New York town center A. Trachtenberg

Jewish DAILY liberty (Jewish daily paper) 50 haste Thirteenth Street publisher: MJ. Olgin

Jewish People's Committee Against Fascism and anti-Semitism (committee of the Jewish people against fascism and Antisemitismus), 1133 Broadway, New York town center; Chairman: W. Weiner

Labor Research Association (research council of the trade unions), 80 Fifth Avenue, New York town center; Director: R.W. Thinly (rear supports) from the country

International Workers Order (community of the international workers), 80 Fifth Avenue, New York town center; Chairman: W. Weiner, attorney J. Brodsky

League for Mutual Aid (league for mutual assistance) 104 Fifth Avenue New York town center; Acting Secretary-General: A. School child, J. Davis, J. Baker

League Of American Writers (league of American writers), 381 Fourth Avenue, New York town center; Chairman: D. C. Stewart, acting Secretary-General: H. Fulsome, M. Gold, G. Hicks.

League Of Women Shoppers, 220 Fifth Avenue, New York town center; E. Preston (Mrs. R.N. Baldwin), M. Forsyth

Methodist Federation for Social Service (combination of the Methodists for social services), 150 Fifth Avenue, New York town center; Bishop F.J. McConnell

National Committee for People's Rights (national committee for international law), 150 Fifth Avenue, New York town center; Chairman: R. Kent, M. Gold

National Lawyers Guild (combination of the national lawyers), 31 Union Square, New York town center

National Maritime Union (CIO), (national shipping trade union), 126 Eleventh Avenue, New York town center; Chairman: J. Curran

National Mooney Billings Committee, 112 haste Nineteenth Street, New York town center; Rabbi S.S. Wise

National Negro Congress (national congress of the Afroamerikaner), 35 East Twelfth Street, New York town center; Chairman: A.P. Randolph, J.W. Ford, A. Herndon, J.P. Davis

National Urban League (national city league), 1133 Broadway, New York town center; Rev. L Hollingsworth Wood, W.C. Poletti

National Women's Trade Union League (national league that trade unionist inside), 247 Lexington Avenue, New York town center; R. Schneiderman, A. Nestor, M. Schwartz

Negro Youth Congress (congress for black young people), 35 haste Twelfth Street, New York town center; Chairman: W.F. Richardson, Secretary-General: E.E. Strong

New School for Social Research, 66 west Twelfth Street, New York town center; Chairman: A. Johnson, attorney B. Bass, Heywood Broun

North American Committee ton of Aid Spanish Democray (North American committee for the support of the democracy in Spain), 381 Fourth Avenue, New York town center; Bishop F.j. McConnell

Peoples Press, 1133 Brodway, New York town center; Owner: Corliss Lamont, J. Waterman Wise, R.S. Childs

Progressive Women's Council (advice of progessiver women), 80 East Eleventh Street, New York town center; Chairman: C Shavelson, Generalsekretaerin: Rose Nelson, R. Chaikin

Edge School OF Social Science (socialist), 7 East Fifteenth Street, New York town center; D Alexander, Norman Thomas

Social Economic Foundation Inc. (donation for social science) directors: Corliss Lamont, A.A. Heller, C Recht, M. van Kleek

Social Work Today (magazine), 112 East Nineteenth Street, New York town center; B. Goldman, S.M. Issacs, L Merrill, M. van Kleek

Scottsboro Defense Committee, 112 East Nineteenth Street, New York town center; Director: Rev. A.K. Chalmers

Socialist Party the USA (a socialist party of the USA), 11 west Seventeenth Street, New York town center; Norman Thomas, J. Altman

Southern Tenant Farmers Union (CIO), (trade union of dependent Farmer of the Southern States), 112 East Nineteenth Street/50 East Twelfth Street, New York town center; H. Kester

Transport Workers Union (CIO), (transport worker trade union), 80 East Eleventh Street, New York town center; Chairman: M. Pour, to A. Hogan, T. Santo

United Christian Council for Democracy, 150 Fifth Avenue, New York town center; Chairman: W.F. Cochran, R. Niebuhr

United Office and Professional Workers OF America (CIO) 30 East Twentieth Street New York town center of chairmen: J. Merrill

Workers LIBRARY Publishers Inc., 39 haste Twelfth Street, New York town center; (experts for propaganda in the CPUSA)

Workers Defense League (league for the defense of the rights of the workers), 112 East Nineteenth Street, New York town center; J. Davis, R. Morss Lovett, M. Shapiro, Norman Thomas

Workers Alliance, New York State section, 781 Broadway, New York town center; Chairman: S. Weisman, D Lasser

Women's International League for Peace and Freedom (international woman league for peace and liberty), 150 Fifth Avenue, New York town center

Young Pioneers (boy of pioneers), 80 Fifth Avenue, New York town center (member of the CPUSA)

Zookniga corporation, 245 Fifth Avenue, New York town center

As is the case for the second list in the appendix it concerns also with this an official list, which was published on 1 August 1939 and on realizations FBI as well as other intelligence services been based. The second list was presented 1948 and supplemented until always 1953 again. All communist groups, which emerge both in the pre-war and the post-war list, are marked by one "". In the meantime some trade unions communists had excluded other openly communist groups from their membership lists, were dissolved, partially also by government resolution. Although Roosevelt had forbidden hearing messages between the Soviet Union and America and/or Canada, the secret services did not adhere to it. The fact that someone was a member at a federation, a committee or a Soviet group of supports, did not mean still for a long time that this person was an active communist or a feeler gauge. Thousands ofpeople with an inclination for liberal thinking became members, without being or the ideas of communism support thereby communists. The variety of these groups shows however completely clearly that Moscow infinitely set up many traps for the harmless ones and the sympathizers, in order to then recruit from this humans their feeler gauges. These even one said that they give up the kompromi tierende membership and into the underground should go, what even mean could the fact that they become members of conservative groups and openly had to criticize their former friends.

List of the 1948 as communist classified organizations, Attorney General's list Federal Register 13 (20 March 1948):

  • Alabama People's Educational Association
  • Florida Press and Educational League
  • Oklahoma League for Political Education
  • People's Educational and Press Association of Texas
  • Virginia League for People's Education
  • Congress against Discrimination
  • Congress of American Revolutionary Writers
  • Congress of American Women Congress of the Unemployed
  • Connecticut Committee to aid Victims of the Smith Act
  • Connecticut Ste Youth Conference
  • Council for Jobs, Relief and Housing
  • Council for Pan-American Democracy
  • Council of Greek American
  • Council on African Affairs
  • Daily Worker Press Club
  • Dennis Defense Committee
  • Detroit Youth Assembly
  • East Bay Peace Committee
  • Emergency Committee to Save Spanish Refugees
  • Everybody's Committee to Outlaw War
  • Families of the Baltimore Smith Act Victim
  • Families of the Smith Act Victims
  • Finish-American Mutual Aid Society
  • Frederick Douglas Educational Center
  • Freedom Stage, Inc.
  • Friends of the Soviet Union
  • George Washington Carver School, New York City
  • Harlem Trade Union Council
  • Hawaii Civil Liberties Committee
  • Hellenic-American Brotherhood
  • Hollywood Writers Mobilization for Democracy
  • Hungarian-American Council for Democracy
  • Hungarian Brotherhood
  • Idaho Pension Union
  • Independant Party, Seattle, Washington
  • Industrial Workers of the World
  • International Labor Defense
  • International Workers Order, its subdivisions, subsidiaries and affiliates*
  • Jewish Culture Society
  • Jewish People's Committee
  • Jewish People's fraternal Order
  • Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee
  • Joseph Weydemeyer School of Social Science, St. Louis, Missouri
  • Labour Council for Negro Rights
  • Labor Research Association Inc.*
  • Labor Youth League
  • League for Common Sense
  • League of American Writers*
  • Macedoman-American People's League
  • Maritime Labor Committee to Defend AI Lannon
  • Massachusetts Committee for the Bill of Rights
  • Massachusetts Minute Women for Peace
  • Maurice Braverman Defense Committee
  • Michigan Civil Rights Federation
  • Michigan Council for Peace
  • Michigan School of Social Science
  • National Association of Mexican Americans
  • National Committee for Freedom of the Press
  • National Committee for the Defense of Political Prisoners
  • National Committee to Win Amnesty for Smith Act Victims
  • National Committee to Win the Peace
  • National Conference on American Policy in China and the Far East
  • National Council for American-Soviet Friendship
  • National Federation for Constitutional Liberties
  • National Labor Conference for Peace
  • National Negro Congress*
  • National Negro Labor Council
  • Nature Friends of America
  • Negro Labor Victory Committee
  • New Committee for Publications
  • North American Committee to Aid Spanish Democracy*
  • North American Spanish Aid Committee
  • North Philadelphia Forum
  • Ohio School of Social Sciences
  • Oklahoma Committee to Defend Political Prisoners
  • Pacific Northwest Labor School, Seattle, Washington
  • Palo Alto Peace Club, Palo Alto, Kalifornien
  • Peace Information Center
  • Peace Movement of Ethopia
  • People's Drama, Inc.
  • People's Educational Association (Los Angeles Educational Center)
  • People's Institute of Applied Religion
  • People's Programs (Seattle, Washington)
  • People's Radio Foundation, Inc.
  • Philadelphia Labor Committee for Negro Right*
  • Philadelphia School of Social Science and Art
  • Photo League
  • Pittsburgh Art Club
  • Political Prisoners' Welfare Committee
  • Polonia Society of the IWO
  • Proletarian Party of America
  • Protestant War Veterans of the USA Inc.
  • Provisional Committee of Citizens for Peace, Southwest Area Provisional Committee on Latin American Affairs
  • Quad City Committee for Peace
  • Queensborough Tenants League
  • Revolutionary Workers League
  • Romanian-American Fraternal Society
  • Russian American Society, Inc.
  • Samuel Adams Scholl, Boston, Massachusetts
  • Santa Barbara Peace Forum, Santa Barbara, Kalifornien
  • Schappes Defense Committee
  • Schneiderman-Darcy Defense Committee
  • School of Jewish Studies
  • Seattle Labor School, Seattle, Washington
  • Serbian-American Fraternal Society
  • Serbian Vidovidan Council
  • Slavic Council of Southern California
  • Slovak Workers Society
  • Slovenian-American National Council
  • Socialist Workers Party, including American Committee for European Workers' Relief
  • Southern Negro Youth Congress
  • Syracuse Women for Peace
  • Tom Paine School of Westchester, New York
  • Trade Union Committee for Peace
  • Trade Unionists for Peace
  • Tn-State Negro Trade Union Council
  • Ukrainan-American Fraternal Union
  • Union of New York Veterans
  • United American Spanish Aid Committee
  • United Committee of Jewish Societies and Landsmannschaft
  • United Committee of South Slavic American
  • United Defense Council of Southern California
  • United Harlem Tenants and Consumers Organization
  • United May Day Committee
  • United Negro and Allied Veterans of America
  • United World Federalists
  • Veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade
  • Virginia League for People's Education
  • Voice of Freedom Committee
  • Walt Whitman School of Social Science, Newark, New Jersey
  • Washington Bookshop Association
  • Washington Committee for Democratic Action
  • Washington Committee to Defend the Bill of Rights
  • Washington Commonwealth Federation
  • Washington Pension Union
  • Wisconsin Conference on Social Legislation
  • Workers Alliance Yiddisher Kultur Farband
  • Young Communist League*
  • Yugoslav-American Cooperative Home, Inc.
  • Yugoslav Seamen's Club, Inc.

External links

CfD

If you got a minute can you take a look at Misplaced Pages:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 November 7#Category:Soviet spies to Category:Aed Soviet spies. This is a challenge to the sourcing of Venona project materials & direct related article series. Thank you. nobs 21:02, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Discipline Inspection Commission

The Discipline Inspection Commission of the Central Military Commission (CMC) held a plenary meeting on September 26 to study and discuss the spirit of the 4th Plenum of the 16th Party Central Committee and the Enlarged Meeting of the Central Military Commission and the 4th Plenary Session of the Central Discipline Inspection Commission, and study ways to implement them.

The meeting emphasized that discipline inspection commissions at all levels of the army must take the study and implementation of the spirit of the 4th Plenum of the 16th Central Committee of the Party and the Enlarged Meeting of the Central Military Commission as an important political task and grasp it firmly and do it successfully so as to give full play to their functionary role and provide powerful political, ideological, disciplinary and working-style guarantee. We must earnestly implement Chairman Hu Jintao's important instruction given at the Enlarged Meeting of the Central Military Commission on enhancing the capabilities of Party organizations at various levels of the army, further strengthen the building of discipline inspection commissions at various levels, constantly enhance their discipline inspection capability by centering on the central task of the army, enhance the capability to effectively　supervise high- and medium-level cadres, improve the capability of fostering inner-Party democracy and protecting the Party member's rights, enhance the capability of enforcing discipline and handling cases according to law, foster the capability to assist the Party committees to improve the Party's style of work, organize and coordinate the fight against corruption, and do a better job of fighting against corruption and improving the Party's style of work in the army, so as to make new contributions to the army building in an all-round way.


5. Discipline inspection organizations of the Party

Discipline inspection organizations of the Party consist of the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection, local Party commissions for discipline inspection at various levels and the grassroots Party commissions for discipline inspection.

The Central Commission for Discipline Inspection works under the leadership of the Party Central Committee.

The local Party commissions for discipline inspection at various levels and the grassroots Party commissions for discipline inspection work under the dual leadership of the Party committee at the same level and Party commission for discipline inspection at the next higher level.

The term of each Party commission for discipline inspection is the same as that of the Party committee at the same level.

The plenary session of the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection elects its standing committee, secretary and deputy secretaries and reports this to the Party Central Committee for approval.

The plenary sessions of local Party commissions for discipline inspection at various levels elect the standing committee and secretary and deputy secretaries, and the results are passed by the Party committee at the same level and reported to the Party committee at the next higher level for approval.

Whether a discipline inspection commission or discipline inspection members for a grassroots Party committee shall be established or put into position is to be decided by a Party organization at the next higher level in light of specific conditions.

A general Party branch committee and a Party branch committee shall include discipline inspection members.

The Central Commission for Discipline Inspection may, if needed, accredit a discipline inspection group or discipline inspectors to central Party and state organs.

Leaders of the discipline inspection group or discipline inspectors may attend, as non-voting members, related conferences organized by Party leaders of the organ concerned.

Their work must be supported by the Party leaders and organizations of the organ concerned.

Katyn

When George H. Earle, a former US Minister to Bulgaria and to Austria, met with President Roosevelt to inform him of information he had received indicating Soviet responsibility for the massacre, the President responded, "I have noted with concern your plan to publish your unfavourable opinion of one of our allies. . . I not only do not wish it, but I specifically forbid you to publish any information or opinion about an ally that you might have acquired while in office or in the service of the US Navy." Louis Fitz Gibbon added that "Earle was promptly transferred to Samoa."


Source

Louis FitzGibbon, Katyn Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, (1971), pp. 183-184

Ovakimian

'Gaik Badalovich Ovakimian (b. 1898) was of Armenian background and he joined the KGB in 1931 while a graduate student at Moscow's Bauman Higher Technical School and went immediately into foreign intelligence.

Ovakimian was sent to Germany on an assignment emphasizing scientific-technical espionage. In 1932 he returned to the Soviet Unionin for advanced technical training at the Workers' and Peasants' Red Army Military-Chemical Academy. In 1933 Ovakimian was sent to the United States as deputy head of the KGB's scientific-technical intelligence section, operating under the cover of being an engineer for Amtorg.

In 1939 Ovakimian became chief of scientific intelligence in the United States while at the same time began studying for a doctorate in chemistry at a New York University.

In 1941 Ovakimian was arrested during a meeting with an agent who had been turned by the FBI. After the German invasion of the Soviet Union on 22 June 1941, the United States agreed to forgo prosecution and allowed him to return to Moscow.

Ovakimian became deputy chief of the KGB's foreign intelligencein 1943 and attained the rank of major-general. In 1946 Ovakimian left the KGB to engage in full-time scientific work.

Reference

  • John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr, Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America, Yale University Press (1999).



Ovakimian, Gaik Ovakimian, Gaik

"If you want something done right...

...you have to do it yourself": unfortunately this is often how Misplaced Pages feels, especially when there's one area of knowledge you're passionate about. I just wanted to say that apart from our differences on the McCarthy article, I understand your frustration in trying to correct sloppy references as you did in High Noon and elsewhere.

However, looking at that and your other examples, I have to say that there's nothing all that special about them. You've been here since June, right? And it looks like you've stayed pretty much within your main area of interest: Soviet espionage in the U.S. So you may not have fully realized that Misplaced Pages is chock full of sloppiness in many, many areas... especially when it comes to any subject that, like McCarthy, has become a kind of cultural shorthand.

But you're not going to fix this just by repeating general complaints like "It is within our power to establish the facts." The careful and committed WP editors you're looking for are out there... but for the most part, they're already busy fixing a bunch of other stuff; there's no reason for them to rally around your favorite issue. You shouldn't assume, just because a bunch of errors that bother you have been allowed to persist, that there's some official attack on your point of view, or that everyone else is oblivious and uninformed. Take me for instance: I don't agree with your point of view in many ways, but I agree that many of the errors you pointed out were pretty bad. Having said that, I may decide some other factual edit you make in the future is completely nuts. You have to go case by case and develop consensus on each article; these sweeping statements - and the vague references you keep making to your ongoing research - are just not useful and may in fact cause people to dismiss you as all talk.

Also - and it's hard to say this without sounding like a jerk, but I think it needs saying - you'll have much better luck getting people to take you seriously here if you proofread your edits. There are grammatical and spelling errors in many if not most of your posts, and not just on the talk pages: the kinds of things I just fixed in LaFollette Committee look like either a lack of fluency in English, or just careless fast writing. If you don't speak English fluently or are dyslexic or something, fine, but get someone to look over your stuff for you - don't make all the other editors clean it up, especially considering how often you make edits. If you have time to wikilink everything in your talk page posts (something I can't say I've seen any other editor do to that extent), you have time to proofread. ←Hob 05:57, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

I'd appreciate it if you didn't continue to post comments on my talk page unless they're in response to specific messages from me. Reading more of your writing, in your voluminous disputes with Cberlet and others, has convinced me that regardless of what your intentions may be, discussions with you are generally a waste of time: you change the subject again and again, misconstrue what others say, and turn talk pages into monologues. The last straw for me was your claim that there's no reason for your responses to bear any relation to the actual questions people ask, because their questions are "POV" and you have a more lofty perspective; that's basically a denial of any interest in collaboration, regardless of your other polite remarks. Cberlet has made valiant attempts to work with you, and the progress you point to (yes, I have been following all of those discussions, sadly) is, in my opinion, almost entirely to his credit. I hope the mediation request will be fruitful; I'm staying out of it except (if called for) to provide examples from my own brief involvement. ←Hob 18:41, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

McCarthy citations

Citations:

"In 1947, it was apparent that no individual in the U.S. Government realized that evidence of massive Soviet espionage within the government was developing on twin tracks. There was an FBI counterintelligence investigation which empanelled a grand jury in New York, and the Army Signal Intelligence Service at Arlington Hall reading Soviet cipher decrypts. It was a case of one hand not knowing what the other was doing. So when McCarthy later made charges that the Truman administration knowingly protected Soviet agents, on the surface, this appeared to large sectors of the American public as true."


  • ^1 NSA Archives, National Cyptological Museum, Venona Chronology; "~September 1: Col. Carter Clarke briefs the FBI's liaison officer Robert J. Lamphere on the break into Soviet diplomatic traffic. September: Carter W. Clarke of G-2 advises S. Wesley Reynolds, FBI, of successes at Arlington Hall on KGB espionage messages."
  • ^2 Moynihan Commission on Government Secrecy, Appendix A, 7. The Cold War; "In November 1945 Elizabeth Bentley informed the FBI of her activities as a Soviet courier, which in turn led to renewed interest in Chambers. In late August or early September 1947, the FBI was informed that the Army Security Agency had begun to break into Soviet espionage messages".
  • National Security Agency, Venona Archives, Introductory History of VENONA and Guide to the Translations,The VENONA Breakthroughs; " An Arlington Hall report on 22 July 1947 showed that the Soviet message traffic contained dozens, probably hundreds, of covernames, many of KGB agents, including ANTENNA and LIBERAL (later identified as Julius Rosenberg). One message mentioned that LIBERAL's wife was named "Ethel."

General Carter W. Clarke, the assistant G-2, called the FBI liaison officer to G-2 and told him that the Army had begun to break into Soviet intelligence service traffic, and that the traffic indicated a massive Soviet espionage effort in the U.S.

  • ^4 Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive, Counterintelligence Reader, Vol. 3, Chap. 1, pg.47, "Polls taken at the time revealed that a majority of Americans believed that Communism at home and abroad was a serious threat to US security".
  • ^5 Margareet Chase Smith, Declaration of Conscience, pg. 2, 1 June 1950, U.C. Congress, Senate, Congressional Recoird, 81st Congress, 2nd sess., pp. 7894-95. "The Democratic administration has greatly lost the confidence of the American people by its complacency to the threat of communism here at home and the leak of vital secrets to Russia through key officials of the Democtaric administration. There are enough proved cases to make this point without diluting our criticism with unproved charges"; "..there have been enough proved cases, such as the Amerasia case, the Hiss case, the Coplon case, the Gold case, to cause nationwide distrust and strong suspicion that there may be something to the unproved, sensational accusations".

Bentley depositions

Hey, I've been meaning to say thanks for the work you put intom looking for that. Alas, I did already know of the bits and pieces of it scattered through the Silvermaster stuff - it was precisely reading those that made me want to see the entire thing! (Especially in one coherent, un-edited whole.) I'll put a note on the Bentley talk page asking if anyone has the FBI file. (I'm not that interested that I'd bother FOIA'ing the FBI.) Hmm, maybe I can email Klehr/Haynes and see if they have it online somewhere! Noel (talk) 12:20, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Image:Unchart.jpg

Do you have a source for this photo, or planning to use it at an article? If so, please add it to a source and relevant article. If not, it will have to be deleted soon. Zach (Sound Off) 06:12, 27 September 2005 (UTC)


Request for Mediation filed

I have filed a request for mediation regrading Venona and other pages, see here: --Cberlet 18:17, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Hello, Nobs01! I've been assigned to your case, and I'll be happy to help you and Cberlet out if you agree to mediation. Please see Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Cberlet and Nobs01, where I've left a response to Cberlet's request. Would you prefer that mediation occur via talk pages and a special page (something like Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Cberlet and Nobs01/Workshop), or via email? I would prefer that it stay on Misplaced Pages, but I'm fine with both. Thanks! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | WS 19:36, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
Actually, mediation is supposed really a lax and rather informal process; there's no real time-frame or any real guidelines. You can see Misplaced Pages:Mediation for more information. This is my first case, so you'll have to bear with me sometimes... staying on Misplaced Pages is fine with me. Thanks again! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | WS 19:55, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
Hello, Nobs! I've moved your previous previous workshop to a subpage and created a new workshop. There, I've created three sections- one section where both of you should agree on a few basic policies, another section where you should state your goals of mediation (i.e. what you hope to accomplish), and then a section where each of you can give a summary of the dispute. I ask that you do not respond to the other party's summary yet. Thanks! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | WS 20:39, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

moved Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Cberlet and Nobs01/Workshop/Nobs01.(incomplete)

Revisions

Revision: "According to the National Counterintelligence Center's, "Counterintelligence Reader" still classified footnotes, Magdoff as a member of the Perlo group."

Wikisource:Letter from William L. Borden to J. Edgar Hoover, November 7, 1953

Background

Arlington Hall cryptographers found hundreds of cover names for institutions and persons, some engaged in conspiritorial activities. According to Haynes & Klehr, 349 cover names were of persons who had a covert relationship with Soviet intelligence. Government analysts identitied many of the coded names from the Venona documents during their investigation. Among those linked to code names were Alger Hiss; Harry Dexter White, the second-highest official in the Treasury Department; Lauchlin Currie, a personal aide to Franklin Roosevelt; and Maurice Halperin, a section head in the Office of Strategic Services. Almost every military and diplomatic agency of any importance was compromised to some extent, including the Manhattan Project. Others worked in Washington in the State Department, Treasury, Office of Strategic Services (OSS), and even the White House.

The Government, scholars and other writers have now concluded that Hiss, White, Halperin, and Currie wittingly passed information to the Soviets. Some scholars and observers, however, dispute the accuracy of the identifications based on codes and fragments of transmissions; and the extent to which the available evidence indicates these people (and others named in the Venona documents) were aware of or complicit in espionage activities. Still, the Venona documents and material from Soviet archives has provided much detail corroborating the existence of an elaborate Soviet Espionage network operating in the U.S. during this period.

Prosecution

On 1 February 1 1956, Alan H. Belmont prepared an FBI memorandum on the significance of the Venona project and the prospects of using decryptions in prosecution. It considered that though decryptions may corroborate Elizabeth Bentley, and enable successful prosecution of subjects such as Judith Coplon and the Perlo and Silvermaster groups, a careful study of all factors compelled the conclusion it would not be in the best interests of the United States to use Venona project information for prosecution.

The Memo states that it was uncertain whether or not the Venona project information would be admitted into evidence. A defense attorney probably would immediately move to dismiss the evidence as hearsay, being that neither the Soviet official who sent the message, nor the Soviet official who received it was available to testify. A question of law was involved. The FBI reasoned that decrypts probably could have been introduced, on an exception to the hearsay rule, based on the expert testimony of cryptrographers.

The extensive use of cover names also made prosecution difficult. Once an individual had been considered for recruitment as an agent by the Soviets, sufficient background data on him was sent to Moscow. Cover names were used not only for Soviet agents but other people as well. President Roosevelt for example, was called "Kapitan" (Captain), and Los Alamos the "Reservation". Cover names also were frequently changed, and a cover name might actually apply to two different people, depending on the date it was used. Assumptions made by cryptographers, questionable interpretations and translations placed reliance upon the expert testimony of cryptographers, and the entire case would be circumstantial.

Defense attorneys also would probably request to examine messages which cryptographers were unsuccessful in breaking and not in evidence, on the belief that such messages, if decoded, could exonerate their clients. The FBI determined that that would lead to the exposure of Government techniques and practices in the cryptography field to unauthorized persons, compromise the Government's efforts in communications intelligence, and impact other pending investigations.

Before any messages could be used in court they would have to be declassified. Approval would have to come from several layers of bureaucracy, and probably the President, as well notification to British counterparts working on the same problem. In an election year, the Bureau felt exposed to a violent political war with the FBI right in the middle.

International implications were considered as well. While no written record has been located, it was stated by NSA officials that during the World War II, Soviet diplomats were granted permission to use Army radio facilities at the Pentagon to send messages to Moscow. It has been state President Roosevelt granted this permission and accompanied it with the promise to the Soviets that their messages would not be intercepted or interfered with by United States. The FBI feared the Soviet international propaganda machine would work overtime proving that was evidence that the U.S. never acted in good faith during the war, and vilify the U.S. as an unfaithful ally and false friend.

Notes

  • ^1 Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Secrecy: The American Experience, (New Haven: Yale University Press 1998), pg. 146-47; "Hiss was indeed a Soviet agent and appears to have been regarded by Moscow as its most important."
  • ^4 CIA Publications, The Office of Strategic Services: America's First Intelligence Agency, no date. ; "Duncan C. Lee, Research & Analysis labor economist Donald Wheeler, Morale Operations Indonesia expert Jane Foster Zlatowski, and Research & Analysis Latin America specialist Maurice Halperin, nevertheless passed information to Moscow."
  • ^5 Hayden Peake, Naval War College Review The Venona Progeny, Volume LIII, No. 3, Sequence 371, Summer 2000; "VENONA makes absolutely clear that they had active agents in the U.S. State Department, Treasury Department, Justice Department, Senate committee staffs, the military services, the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the Manhattan Project, and the White House, as well as wartime agencies. No modern government was more thoroughly penetrated."
  • ^6 U.S. Department of Energy, Office of History and Heritage, The VENONA Intercepts, 1946-1980, "This program led to the eventual capture of several Soviet spies within the Manhattan Project."
  • ^7 Commission on Protecting and Reducing Government Secrecy. Secrecy: Report of the Commission on Protecting and Reducing Government Secrecy. VI. Appendices: A. Secrecy: A Brief Account of the American Experience. Washington, DC: Government Printing Office, 1997, pg. 9 (PDF 746K). "KGB cables indicated that the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) in World War II had been thoroughly infiltrated with Soviet agents."
  • ^8 Commission on Protecting and Reducing Government Secrecy. Secrecy: Report of the Commission on Protecting and Reducing Government Secrecy. VI. Appendices: A. Secrecy: A Brief Account of the American Experience. Washington, DC: Government Printing Office, 1997, pgs. 36, 39. (PDF 746K)
  • ^9 FBI Memorandum Belmont to Boardman, 1 February 1956, FBI Venona file, FBI documents of historic interest concerning Venona that are referenced in Daniel P. Moynihan's book, Secrecy, (PDF pgs. 61-72).

User:Nobs01/Floyd Miller

"Covert relationship" is not "artful language" of Haynes & Klehr; it is in fact a common jargon phrase.
  • US Dept. of State FOIA - Church Report (1975)
  • Andrew and Leslie Cockburn, Dangerous Liaison: The Inside Story of the U.S.-Israeli Covert Relationship, (1991)
  • Defining the Future of the NRO for the 21st Century, National Reconnaissance Office (26 August 1996)
  • British House of Commons, Regulation of Investigatroy Powers Bill, (2000)
  • Scottish Executive, Covert Human Intelligence, Code Partices (2000)
  • Supreme Court of Canada, Full Memorandum re CAFFII, Court File No. S.C.C. No. 28227, (13 August 2001)
  • Bob Woodward, Secret CIA Units Playing a Central Combat Role, Washington Post, (18 November 2001)
  • US Objectives In Central And South Asia, The Nation, (5 February, 2002)
  • Correspondence, South Africa's Nuclear Decisions, (2002)
  • U.S. Supreme Court 03-1395: Tenet v. Doe - Reply (Petition), (2003)
  • US Army Professional Writing Collection, Soldiers of the State: Reconsidering American Civil-Military Relations, (2004)
  • Chip Berlet & Matthew N. Lyons, Liberal & Neoconservative Cooperation with State Repression, The Public Eye, (no date)
  • Google Results 1,890,000 for covert+relationship

Howdy

I looked over that link...what a mess. Let me know if I can be of any help.--MONGO 06:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Image:Chaingkaishek.jpg has been listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded, Image:Chaingkaishek.jpg, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

--Bash 00:17, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

RfC etc.

Yes, I could've equally well placed that RfC under History. They're not supposed to be listed in more than one category so I made a somewhat arbitrary choice. I have no idea why you're asking me at this point. I only started the RfC because it was about time that someone did so; you and Cberlet seemed determined to fight it out on your own forever, and in my opinion, you have allowed your annoyance and ideological differences with Cberlet to blind you to your own considerable difficulties with collaboration and structured writing... at least, that is the kindest possible interpretation I can think of. I did tell Cberlet that mediation would probably end up in arbitration, but I was hoping it wouldn't have to go that way, and it was worth a try; unfortunately it looks like you didn't have the patience to let the mediator play a useful role, and have now given up on the process, which is too bad. ←Hob 23:57, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Reconstruction Finance Corporation

Here are the comments I posted at "Reconstruction Finance Corporation"'s talk page. Evidently you didn't see my first comment, or didn't agree with it, but please explain to me how this entity and espionage are connected. Thanks - Her Pegship 00:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

"I was puzzled by the category links to VENONA and espionage. After perusing articles in those categories, I believe the only connection between them and this article is that there is a Rfc - "Request for comment" active on the VENONA article, and someone may have mistakenly linked this article on RFC to it. If there really is a connection between espionage and the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, please make it clear in the RFC article. Thanks. Her Pegship 17:08, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Nobs01 put the categories back in, but I still don't see any connection at all between RFC and espionage. Thanks for the link to the Havlik oral history interview, which mentions the RFC, but please, if you add the cats, please clarify on this page or my talk page why they are here. Thanks. Her Pegship 00:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)"

If we followed Nobs's example for assigning categories, the category system would become a uselessly broad game of Six Degrees of Separation. People looking for information about espionage will already find plenty of links to Currie, et al., which already mention their connections to the RFC and so on. If someone at Los Alamos or the Treasury or the Department of Motor Vehicles or whatever is accused of being a spy, or found to be a spy, that does not make the articles about those agencies into articles about espionage. I'm removing those category links. ←Hob 20:02, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Please conduct all further discussion of this on Talk:Reconstruction Finance Corporation. Thanks. ←Hob 20:33, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Thank you. Half the problem is getting the name of the organization; for example, this language,
"The words “Export-Import Bank of the United States” are substituted for “Export-Import Bank of Washington” because of section 1(a) of the Act of March 13, 1968 (Pub. L. 90–267, 82 Stat. 47). The words “Petroleum Reserves Corporation” are omitted because the corporation was transferred to the Office of Economic Warfare, which was consolidated into the Foreign Economic Administration, which was transferred to the Reconstruction Finance Corporation and changed to the War Assets Corporation. The War Assets Corporation was dissolved as soon as practicable after March 25, 1946. The words “Rubber Development Corporation” are omitted because the certificate of incorporation expired on June 30, 1947. The words “U. S. Commercial Company” are omitted because the company was liquidated after June 30, 1948."
is the actual text of the Law that disolved the Reconstruction Finance Corportation and merged its entities into other agencies. Then there is the problem of personal; the Senate Interlocking Subversion in Government investigation took many years to establish just exactly what agency a particular person may have actually worked for during the Roosevelt & Truman administration. Very often a person was drawing a salary from, say U.S. Department of Agriculture for example, yet worked in the U.S. Department of Treasury. (Incidently, the Senate SISS investigation has absolutely nothing to do with Joesph McCarthy). Thanks again. nobs 20:44, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

re Admin

I've had a few folks wanting to nominate me...I just dealt with having to delete most of my uploaded images from Commons as they are either too complex to ensure we follow all the use guidelines and or copyvios due to my mistaking a website for a federal one where many images are public domain....I just got back from a long trip and am a little out of the loop so maybe in a week or two...keep up the good work.--MONGO 04:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

soviet spies

I have voted. See if you can help me at Talk:John Kerry Rex071404 23:08, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject Soviet Union

Hi, you seem to have some kind of interest in the Soviet Union, or aspects thereof. We'd be glad of your input at WikiProject Soviet Union. Thanks - FrancisTyers 01:21, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Soviet spies issue

This is a bit of a tough one. Somehow, the article needs to avoid any legal issues around the possibility of getting sued for saying someone was a "soviet spy" when they weren't convicted of being a soviet spy. A lawsuit can only be prevented by a conviction or a confession. Perhaps you could divide the page into two subsections, one for convicted soviet spies and another for disputed soviet spies. Then you could have all the names on one page, but the page would be split into two sections to help avoid a lawsuit. I'm sure there might be other ways to fix this as well, but I can't think of any right now. FuelWagon 02:15, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

It appears that the debate on this is now closed, but having given some thought, I'll reply anyway.
You may count on my support for any effort to curtail the rampant POV pushing of Cberlet, well as his exploitation of Misplaced Pages for commercial purposes.
However, two wrongs don't make a right. I am skeptical of the way categories get used, often as yet another form of POV warfare, and I would be more inclined to go with "alleged Soviet spies" or something along those lines. In this case, Cberlet may be the proverbial broken clock that is right twice a day. --HK 22:01, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Nobs' refusal to edit text and mediator's failure to mediate

I think it is obvious that Nobs is incapable or unwilling to actually edit text. We have been at this for weeks, and Nobs has buried this mediation in mountains of material, and yet refuses to edit text. He has announced that he is unwilling to continue this mediation, then returns and inserts more mountains of text that has nothing to do with editing text. At some point this is no longer a mediation, but merely a farce. I really think that the mediator needs to be active in this mediation, or pass it off to someone willing to play a more active role. I really resent the current circumstance, in which I edit text and write compromise text, and Nobs plays us all for suckers. --Cberlet 02:54, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

NPOV and the Chip Berlet article

Please take care to ensure the content you're adding to the article is significant and credible, and informative, not inflamatory. FeloniousMonk 05:37, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I appreciate that you have a proper cite, but the point is it point you make is neither notable nor is it the defining characteristic of the NLG, which is better known for many other things. I oppose the "which has been described as "an apologist and defender for terrorists and terrorism" fragment because it is clearly intended to be inflammatory, not informative. Threatening add more cites doesn't address that problem. You're going to need to find a more accurate and less inflammatory way to describe the NLG, I'm afraid. FeloniousMonk 06:18, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

You are welcome!

Hi Nobs, no problem for my little bit of help, feel free to always let me know. I can't always keep up on the issues. As far as asking for your help, there is one article that I started that is being voted for deletion Stacy Armstrong. It seems like a lost cause however. One character has been targeting me and some of my creations. He says that I am either all the people I'm writing the articles on or accuses me of being their friends or publicizing them or something and this jerk has been upped to a admin. Anyway keep me up to date!! Dwain

No problem

Reading up on a bunch of links in that cat., I learned a lot, so call it even! --Daniel11 20:15, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

  1. FBI1
  2. FBI2
  3. Benson
  4. ONCIX
  5. Smith
  6. Benson
  7. Moyhnihan146
  8. NSA
  9. NACICvol3ch1p31
  10. X-2
  11. NWCR
  12. DOE
  13. 12hist1p9
  14. 12hist1p36
  15. FBI61