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Molobo

Molobo (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

Populated account categories: confirmed

For archived investigations, see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Molobo/Archive.

Prior SSP or RFCU cases may exist for this user:

• Requests for checkuser/Case/Molobo

Report date May 5 2009, 09:28 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets

• Gwinndeith (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

Evidence submitted by Skäpperöd (talk)

The account user:Gwinndeith was created on 6 Feb 2009. From the account, a few edits were made throughout February and early March devoted primarily to removing German names from Poland-related articles (e.g. , , ) before engaging in disruptive editing at Center Against Expulsions. The editing pattern in this "dispute", in which I was the "opposing" party indicated that the user is not as new to wiki as the account, see e.g. his/her wikilawyering. While the respective AN/I thread did not result in admin action, user:Sciurinae suggested the account being a sockpuppet of user:Molobo, an account dedicated to "the Polish cause" primarily in respect to Germany that a while ago was put under editing restriction to avoid a permaban.

After the disruption at Center Against Expulsions had come to an end, the account was quiet for about a month, with the exception of two edits. When massive editing from the account continued on 28 April, it focussed on prominently mentioning German air force atrocities in Poland in the lead of Strategic bombing during World War II , showing some analogy to a dispute user:Molobo had with user:Dapi89 . In the latter dispute, Molobo reported Dapi89 at the AE board; Gwinndeith joined reports of his foremost opponent in the "Strategic..." article, user:Npovshark, on the 3RR board . In between these edits, Gwinndeith, joined an edit war at the Pszenno article, removing historical German names . This edit war combined with some related disputes made it to the AE board , and although Gwinndeith has not (yet?) joined in, the account is already mentioned there by user:Radeksz, who after a Gwinndeith diff says "and honestly I have no idea who Gwinndeith is". Neither do I, that's why I post my concerns here for investigation:

• The editing pattern of Gwinndeith outlined above (controversial edits in a limited topic area along with making use of admin notice boards and wikilawyering) resembles that of a more experienced POV pusher and not that of a new user.
• This editing pattern (style, boards, topic area) resembles that of Molobo. Yet, Sciurinae suggested here that it would most probably not be possible to reveal this - hypothetical - connection via CU due to Molobo's experience.
• Gwinndeith's removal of historical German names from articles about places now in Poland resembles that of a variety of IPs and accounts, thus the Molobo connection is not the only possibility. It is also possible that Gwinndeith is a sock of some other account or a SPA that has been around as an IP or a reader for a while.

Skäpperöd (talk) 09:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

I have had similar problems with his dubious use of sources and unsourced edits. Please cheack the History of the Luftwaffe (1933–1945) page. I thought the user Peterlewis, who appeared not long afterwards, and put this unsourced information into the article might be the said user.

Also here, using the newspaper (a notorious one) known as the Daily Mail to support information added to the Wehrmacht article. In the next edit the user Peterlewis once again turns up. Although no reversal was made. The complaint made about me in relation to this was erroneous and was just revenge to get back at me for calling him on this.

By far the most interesting relationship between two editors is the one Molobo has with user:Piotrus who seems to jump to his defence, "come what may". Dapi89 (talk) 14:39, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Comments by accused parties    See Defending yourself against claims.

Comments by other users

I can only repeat myself: Gwinndeith is clearly yet another sockpuppet of User:Molobo, who always gets away with it. If you or a neutral admin wants convincing evidence, I can email it. Sciurinæ (talk) 13:30, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

• As Skapperod mentions above, I really don't know who this user is and only seen her/him in a few places (I haven't had that much interaction with Molobo either - though some, I think). I actually though it was somebody from Wales until I actually got around to clicking on their username a few days ago. As a consequence I'm deferring any more specific comments until the accused parties and others have their say. However, Sciruinae's comment above makes me wonder - if there is convincing evidence that this user is Molobo, why can't this be presented in public? This sounds sketchy - at least like a sort of "evidence by insinuation".radek (talk) 14:59, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Are you kidding? What would be a better help for his sockpuppetry than letting him know how he betrayed himself? For any admin wanting to handle this case: please make sure you have my evidence before reaching a conclusion in this case. Sciurinæ (talk) 15:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

You're presuming guilt here, or at least expecting everyone else to presume guilt as well. Basically what you're saying is "I assume the user in question is guilty and I have evidence to prove it but I won't show it because in that case the user in question is going to be able to defend their innocence". I know this isn't the Bill of Rights but that's really pushing it far.radek (talk) 16:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

And sorry to get all weird and paranoid here, but that's what happens when you try to proceed in such a non-open manner on cases like this, but I presume that this statement on your talk page: is relevant? In other words, this secret information is not informative or not useful? This is getting all weird and strange and conspiratorial.radek (talk) 16:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe Sciurinæ works for the CIA :)? I'm joking of course but if indeed the evidence are there, they should be made public.--Jacurek (talk) 16:45, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Radeksz, I don't presume or assume anything - I know beyond all reasonable doubt and will provide a neutral admin with extensive evidence. Regardless of your court-rhetoric, I don't want Molobo to know how he betrayed himself, especially because the evidence is sensitive. To solve this dilemma, I will therefore submit the evidence confidentially to whoever will be the neutral admin dealing with this case. That's the end of this discussion for me. (P.S. just so you know, Radeksz, Skäpperöd received no info from me and declined the offer I made in my first edit here saying he "could not make use of the information" for the obvious reason that he's not an admin) Sciurinæ (talk) 23:06, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

• Note to closing admin. Please exercise caution. Molobo is a valuable and well experienced user known for dampening down attempts at geopolitical irredentism in Eastern European affairs, hence the current attempts at investigation. His prior RfC proved nothing as far as the far-fetched accusations of sockpuppetry are concerned. --Poeticbent talk 17:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Four comments:

• why would Gwinndeith ask about something that Molobo is an expert on?
• an annoying (to me) characteristic of Molobo is that his talk posts are poorly structured, often not indented and merging with sb else's posts. I reviewed G's talk posts and they don't seem to have the same issue.
• considering WP:RTV and Misplaced Pages's support for anonymity of editors (which as a general principle I am against), unless G has violated any restriction Molobo is under, or stacked votes, or tried to break 3RR or such, there is no need to take any action, including investigation.
• considering Molobo's name has been made worse then mud, due to him fighting German/Nazi POV-pushing editors and those editors slandering his name for years, branding him as a "uber-Polish nationalist POV-pushing revert warrior etc." I'd advise to consider if this thread is not designed to attack an editor who represents similar anti-Nazi POV and slander his name by association with Molobo? Speculation aside, either we have proof that G=M, or it should be clearly stated that G=/=M, to avoid sticking mud on G's name. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Clerk, patrolling admin and checkuser comments

Conclusions

• Open SPI cases