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::It seems this debate will continue. The IP indicated that the wikihounding and wants to continue the co-founder debate. ] (]) 20:17, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
::It seems this debate will continue. The IP indicated that the wikihounding and wants to continue the co-founder debate. ] (]) 20:17, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::i didnt say i want to continue the co-founder debate... in fact i said i would abide by the consensus which i didnt know existed before... the only article that i still think needs to be changed is the Mark Taylor article because you changed to to misquote the associated press... the whole section needs to be re-written and if you want to contribute the best source for him being co-founder we can incorporate that into the section... ] (]) 18:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
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"People who are trying to leave messages for me will likely be more satisfied if they leave messages on my user talk page than if they leave them here. This is the talk page for the article about me, not a place to talk to me. I rarely read this. --Jimbo Wales06:05, 23 August 2005 (UTC)"
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# ], a.k.a ], cofounder of Misplaced Pages and editor-in-chief of Nupedia
The entry, dated January 22, 2002, also lists Jimmy Wales as "Jimbo Wales, the other cofounder of this great project".
For whatever reason, there is a glitch (unless I'm missing something, which is entirely possible) that puts the chronology of the revisions out of order. The first actually being December 25, 2001 with this edit. If your click to show previous edit, it jumps to September 20, 2002. Regardless, this last diff indicates that from December 25, 2001, Larry and Jimmy were listed as co-founders of Misplaced Pages. This did not change until June 3, 2003, when Anthere cleared the list to Misplaced Pages:Alphabetical list of Wikipedians, now deleted. I have to go to work now, but I'll look into it a bit more. Regardless, more conclusive evidence from the early days. لennavecia19:47, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Upon further research, I found that the above remained in place until the page was soft-redirected to Special:ListUsers on November 27, 2006. Therefore, Jimmy Wales and Larry Sanger were listed as co-founders of Misplaced Pages on the site's de facto user directory for one month short of five years. Revision as of 22:37, November 26, 2006 shows the last edit to display the above. لennavecia22:18, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
:( But seriously, as interesting and valuable to future historians as this is, I'm not sure there's a place for any of this in the article. The straw poll above was pretty conclusive on the co-founder issue. Skomorokh 00:54, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, the straw poll above establishes the positions of the respondents. The historical record establishes the objective truth (inasmuch as that concept is meaningful, I know, etc. etc.). Hopefully, these two ideas are identical, but my inclination is to go to great lengths with referencing because I know how easy it is to have a point dismissed ad hominem as partisan (POV-pusher). I wouldn't make a crusade of this reference, and I understand the counter-argument about overkill. But I also have a feeling we haven't seen the end of the PR campaign either. -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 04:39, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I just put this here for the next time the debate starts up, which hopefully won't be for a long time. لennavecia05:18, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
A qualified thumbs-up from The London Review of Books
Misplaced Pages still has its advantages, however. Despairing of discovering anything about Rand that I could make sense of, I looked up the article on Jimmy Wales, to see if that shed any light on his personal philosophy. This article is also long, but more reasonably so, given that Wales is responsible for one of the most significant inventions of the 21st century. It is also admirably even-handed, managing to convey that Wales is both something of a visionary and also something of a creep. The section on his personal life includes this detail, which neither he nor anyone else has seen fit to edit: ‘His first wife, Pam, was quoted in a September 2008 W magazine article as saying that Wales, because he believed altruism was evil, discouraged her from pursuing a nursing degree when they were married.’ The entry also details the break-up of Wales’s second marriage and the claims of a subsequent girlfriend, the Canadian conservative columnist Rachel Marsden, that she only discovered he was ending his relationship with her by reading about it on Misplaced Pages. I guess that’s ‘objectivism’ for you.
Thanks - just realised that and posted there - I was trying to remove this section but we edit conflicted. That's what you get for editing while tired :) Exxolon (talk) 01:40, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Co-founder dispute rumbles on and on (Revisionism)
Editors are looking through my edits and now are engaging in revisionism across numerous articles. See here.QuackGuru (talk) 05:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I just want to clarify that my edit to American School in Japan () was only to clarify that Mr. Wales was involved with Misplaced Pages, not the alumna in question. I appear to have set something off, unintentionally.—C45207 | Talk05:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
That is a rather clear, cut n dried case of hounding on that IP user there, you should bring it to AN/I and have an admin deal with it. Maybe for SqueakBox too, if he persists in following you around and undoing the proper co-founder edits. Tarc (talk) 12:55, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
ive never seen this hounding thing before, but i went there and saw this: "Proper use of an editor's history includes (but is not limited to) fixing errors or violations of Misplaced Pages policy or correcting related problems on multiple articles." well for heavans sakes, i saw him changing things and making them NOT agree with the reference and corrected it... how is this hounding?? i think i agree with SqueakBox that that accusation should be withdrawn... 70.71.22.45 (talk) 01:34, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
They are not errors in policy, they are content disputes. Tracking another user's edits to revert them in a content dispute is stalking. The accusation stands, and will not be withdrawn, sorry. Tarc (talk) 01:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Claiming that I am hounding QG is a blatant personal attack from someone who appears ignorant of the history here, please withdraw it. This kind of comment is just the reason why we need arbcom intervention. Thanks, SqueakBoxtalk23:59, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I'm about to head out for the day, but clearly the reason of "has nothing to do with the dispute" or whatever is nonsensical. Consensus establishes he is the co-founder. This does not require a new discussion on the talk page of every article. He's the co-founder. Period. Also, the "typo" meme, as I pointed out before, needs to be let go. It's not clever and it's not helping the situation. The IP edits seem suspicious enough for a checkuser, so I'll go for that when I get back if someone else hasn't already. As for the articles, I've just reverted them all back to co-founder, so will keep an eye. If Squeakbox persists, then we'll take it to an uninvolved admin, as his edits are against established consensus. لennavecia12:59, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
The Jimmy Wales article is semi-protected, and not at risk from tendentious IP editing; furthermore, we have decisively settled the founder/co-founder issue here a short time ago. With this in mind, would you all please consider taking this discussion somewhere it has (a) more relevance and (b) more likliehood of effecting a solution? Thanks, Skomorokh 18:56, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I took this discussion to ANI before when different IP numbers were undoing my edits but it was ignored. I think it is important the regulars here know that there are problems from chiropractic that are spilling over to this page. QuackGuru (talk) 19:01, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, the issue is specifically in regards to the various pages listing "Jimmy Wales, co-founder or Misplaced Pages." These entries had been changed to read "Founder". I think it was good that Quack posted here, as to bring further attention to the matter. However, I think this should be taken elsewhere. SqueakBox said he wants to open an arbitration case, so I hope that happens. لennavecia19:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
no the pages were changed from founder to cofounder even though the source used for those articles doesn't say co-founder it says founder... QuackGuru went on a mission to replace instances of founder located near the words Jimmy Wales which is what stirred this all up... i noticed a huge number of edits on QuackGurus contribution page described as typo and wondered how he found so many typos in so little time... then i checked the references used for those articles and they very clearly say founder not cofounder... so he was trying to hide his edits as correcting typos when he was changing things to disagree with the reference! 70.71.22.45 (talk) 01:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Oh, the perils of in-jokes. He was riffing off Jimbo's infamous explanation of having introduced himself as co-founder in 2002, "Looks like a typo.". He (QuackGuru) probably should have used a summary more like "typo, according to Jimbo", to make the snark clearer. -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 01:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
If it does go to arbitration we should probably discuss whether the Founder Group should be disbanded. It currently only has one member. Besides being somewhat oxymoronic it is self serving. Who programmed the mediawiki to include that "group" and what was the rationale for adding it? David D.(Talk)20:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Clearly the co-founder issue has no place in any article which has nothing to do with the co-founder issue such as all the articles QuackGuru adde3d the co-founder bit to. This is by no means a new issue and he is clearly doing it to be provocative. I am thinking of requesting an RCU against QG and User:Larry Sanger as if they are the same person they have not been acting legitimately in the co-ordinated way in which they have acted. Both QG and Bramlet Abercrombie before him (who clearly was not a possible Sanger sock)seem so bitter about the issue and this revisionist claim is a personal attack and needs to stop. Thanks, SqueakBoxtalk
I think the proposition that QuackGuru is Larry Sanger has about the same likelihood that you (SqueakBox) are Jimmy Wales :-) -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 00:25, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Squeakbox the facts are the facts, it has been established that Jimmy and Larry co-founded wikipedia, supported by numerous sources. You are the lone dissenter (excluding Jimmy). Now regardless where that information occurs it should be correct. That includes articles unrelated to the subject of wikipedia. Viridae04:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Well stated. To argue that the "co-founder issue" has no place on articles unrelated to it is just absurd. Anywhere Jimmy's name is mentioned with his role in Misplaced Pages, it's part of this "issue". Of course, the only issue is that you, SqueakBox, won't accept, or even acknowledge, the consensus that has long now been established. Jimmy is the co-founder of Misplaced Pages, you need to accept that, and Misplaced Pages needs to reflect that at all mentions of him. لennavecia04:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I did have a pretty long comment typed up, but the gist of what I need to say is actually quite short. I agree with Viridae and Jennavecia, and I think this long squabble is getting to be more than a little absurd. There's no profit in rehashing this whole fight at every article that ever mentions Jimbo in passing. – Luna Santin (talk) 02:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
i didnt say i want to continue the co-founder debate... in fact i said i would abide by the consensus which i didnt know existed before... the only article that i still think needs to be changed is the Mark Taylor article because you changed to to misquote the associated press... the whole section needs to be re-written and if you want to contribute the best source for him being co-founder we can incorporate that into the section... 70.71.22.45 (talk) 18:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
