| Revision as of 14:23, 23 June 2009 view sourceBishonen (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators80,267 edits Argument? Discussion?← Previous edit | Revision as of 20:50, 23 June 2009 view source Jimbo Wales (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Founder14,538 editsNo edit summaryNext edit → | ||
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| *Hi, Jimbo. I've been waiting for some commentary from you about your block of me, as suggested on your talkpage by John Vandenberg. Do you have anything to communicate in relation to the points I brought up above on June 7? Any response? Argument? Discussion? ] | ] 14:23, 23 June 2009 (UTC). | *Hi, Jimbo. I've been waiting for some commentary from you about your block of me, as suggested on your talkpage by John Vandenberg. Do you have anything to communicate in relation to the points I brought up above on June 7? Any response? Argument? Discussion? ] | ] 14:23, 23 June 2009 (UTC). | ||
| 1. I did not call you a 'toxic personality' and indeed went out of my way to clarify that. I think that our ongoing toleration of toxic behaviors leads to an environment in which good authors, such as yourself, feel a need to lash out at people in ways that are clearly inappropriate - and I consider that to be quite unfortunate. Toxic personalities create a toxic environment in which good authors can't do the work they want to do. | |||
| The solutions to this are not simple and are not straightforward, but I think it clear that we need to take action to raise the level of civility in the project. | |||
| Let me be clear about this. Your content contributions have been many and varied and of great quality and value. They are much appreciated by me and many others. I am disappointed that we have not been able to provide you a work environment that allowed you to flourish without the sort of toxic environment that caused you to lash out like you did. And I'm disappointed that you allowed yourself to sink to that level - I know you are capable of much better, and I would like to help create an environment where the work is allowed to blossom, and the people causing drama are shown the door. | |||
| 2. As a part of that process, though, one thing that we absolutely must do is insist that it is never appropriate for an administrator to lash out and curse at people, no matter how provoked they might feel. When you wrote "you little shit" to another user, you were doing something wrong. I will not accept that kind of behavior from an admin in Misplaced Pages, this is not what we are about. It is not ok to act that way. | |||
| If you want to join me in asking that we refuse to have a toxic environment in Misplaced Pages, I am happy about that. And I hope you will realize that it has to start with the admins. | |||
| 3. You seem to be suggesting that the block was bad because you were in the right in doing that. If that's true, then I'm sorry to hear it. If you think it's ok for a Misplaced Pages admin to snap at someone like that, then you are mistaken, and I hope that you will change your mind. You might consider apologizing to your victim. | |||
| 4. I am happy to answer further questions and engage in further constructive dialog. There are several interesting questions here, and I'm afraid there are no easy answers.--] (]) 20:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 20:50, 23 June 2009
- The following is reposted here. John Vandenberg 21:49, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I've lain low with regard to Jimbo Wales' block of me, because I wanted first to wait and see if the matter might work itself out if I gave it a few weeks (see contributions). I've been working at Misplaced Pages for five years, mainly writing content—you can consult Raul654 for the quality of my work, if you like—and I guess I had a notion that some value might accrue to that, but it seems I was mistaken. I'm taking an indefinite break, not just because Jimbo Wales has called me a "toxic personality"—a quite remarkably personal attack, from which he had to be pried loose in a meanly unapologetic statement. And not just because of the demeaning way he blocked me: without warning; without discussion; in retaliation and punitively; blocking a user with five years of squeaky clean block log under her bra; blocking a user vulnerably asleep and thereby incapable of self-defence; blocking without care for context ( ); and blocking in a hurry.
And he blocked me under the banner of holding himself "to the highest standard", yet. No, it wasn't just that, but because other issues have been piling up, making me mull over whether this is a good place to be: compare User:Yomangan's farewell message, and Llywrch's post.
I'll save people a question: what made me expect satisfaction, even an apology, from Jimbo Wales? Well, I didn't really, for it was not, in my view of his personality, to be expected. But I've become aware that he has—in secret corners of the project—in non-transparent places—received some major criticism for his block of me, and I guess I figured he might have the grace to admit to me and/or others that the block was problematic and that it demonstrated extra low rather than extra high standards. No soap, though. Indeed perhaps you and I had a culture clash, Mr Wales: California versus Northern Europe. Hasta luego, all my friends. Probably I'll return one day, even though it seems so un-tempting right now; but I understand that people do. Bishonen | talk 19:55, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
- Hi, Jimbo. I've been waiting for some commentary from you about your block of me, as suggested on your talkpage by John Vandenberg. Do you have anything to communicate in relation to the points I brought up above on June 7? Any response? Argument? Discussion? Bishonen | talk 14:23, 23 June 2009 (UTC).
1. I did not call you a 'toxic personality' and indeed went out of my way to clarify that. I think that our ongoing toleration of toxic behaviors leads to an environment in which good authors, such as yourself, feel a need to lash out at people in ways that are clearly inappropriate - and I consider that to be quite unfortunate. Toxic personalities create a toxic environment in which good authors can't do the work they want to do.
The solutions to this are not simple and are not straightforward, but I think it clear that we need to take action to raise the level of civility in the project.
Let me be clear about this. Your content contributions have been many and varied and of great quality and value. They are much appreciated by me and many others. I am disappointed that we have not been able to provide you a work environment that allowed you to flourish without the sort of toxic environment that caused you to lash out like you did. And I'm disappointed that you allowed yourself to sink to that level - I know you are capable of much better, and I would like to help create an environment where the work is allowed to blossom, and the people causing drama are shown the door.
2. As a part of that process, though, one thing that we absolutely must do is insist that it is never appropriate for an administrator to lash out and curse at people, no matter how provoked they might feel. When you wrote "you little shit" to another user, you were doing something wrong. I will not accept that kind of behavior from an admin in Misplaced Pages, this is not what we are about. It is not ok to act that way.
If you want to join me in asking that we refuse to have a toxic environment in Misplaced Pages, I am happy about that. And I hope you will realize that it has to start with the admins.
3. You seem to be suggesting that the block was bad because you were in the right in doing that. If that's true, then I'm sorry to hear it. If you think it's ok for a Misplaced Pages admin to snap at someone like that, then you are mistaken, and I hope that you will change your mind. You might consider apologizing to your victim.
4. I am happy to answer further questions and engage in further constructive dialog. There are several interesting questions here, and I'm afraid there are no easy answers.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)