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A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on November 18, 2004, November 18, 2005, and November 18, 2008.

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Number of suicides.. 918, 909, 912?

1. |here they claim 912 suicides (see "The Visit of Congressman Ryan" in the lower part of the article)

2. |here they claim 909.. (the first blue link) - in Norwegian..

3. And in it's suddenly 918..

Which one is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thymo (talk • contribs) 11:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

909 in Jonestown itself. Then Sharon Amos and her 3 kids in Georgetown (150 miles away). However, Sharon killed the two youngest with a knife, and then she killed herself (with daughter Liane's help) and then her daughter cut her own throat.

Five more people mere murdered at the Port Kaituma airstrip. But they weren't suicides.

The total dead in Jonestown & Georgetown comes to 918 (909 + 4 + 5). Most websites are frankly terrible with details. They keep adding up the various figures in different combinations. 909, 5 dead at airstrip, 2 suicides with Sharon and Liane, 4 total dead in Georgetown (Sharon, Liane and 2 kids), etc.Mosedschurte (talk) 11:36, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

"Suicides" is the wrong word; many were murders. --jpgordon 19:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me that the mass peer pressure as well as the regularly enforced drills, plus the men with guns surrounding the final emergency meeting, plus Jones' announcement that the congressman had just been murdered, resulted in people feeling like there was no alternative. There had been extremely strong indications that any attempt to defect would result in likely death/injury anyway. A comparative question would be whether those who jumped from the buildings on September 11 were committing "suicide" - their fates were already written before they jumped - the only person who had direct control over their own death was Jones' himself and he is the only one that may be regarded as having committed "suicide". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.159.182 (talk) 13:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

By ordering that the children be killed first, Jones ensured that the adults would have little reason to want to continue to live. The whole event happened rapidly and no-one was afforded the ability to think for themselves or even have time enough to consider what action they wanted to take. I challenge anyone to a)rationally think for themselves and b)escape without being captured and murdered in such an incredibly high pressure situation.

Actually the more I think about this the more I consider that anybody contributing to this article ought to spend some time in church where peer pressure and some extent of mental conditioning takes place. Personally I've never been involved in anything like Jonestown but I know how difficult it was for me to break free of a church I was "free to leave at anytime".. (however religious teaching ensured that it would be very very bad in the outside world after rejecting Jesus' call). One has to be either very bright, very stubborn, very hurt, or any combination of the two, to break free from something like that. And at Jonestown they actively punished dissenters! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.159.182 (talk) 13:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Besides the 909, 4, 2 and 5 that are added together in various combinations by media, two more: 908 (909 minus Jones) and 907 (909 minus Jones and Annie, who both died by gunshot). The additions of these various numbers into different numbers can confuse various readers/viewers.Mosedschurte (talk) 02:37, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Was it "the greatest single loss of American civilian life in a non-natural disaster"?

This phrase is not cited and three other incidents could qualify. From most likely to least likely:

The Johnstown Flood (>2,200 dead). Although heavy rains preceded the dam break, enough human error was involved to classify it as a natural disaster, it would seem.

The General Slocum (>1,100 dead). As it was a population rich in immigrants, they were not necessarily citizens, but were civilians.

The Sultana (steamboat) (>1,500 dead). Many of the passengers were Civil War POWs, so they probably do not qualify as civilian, but that would require careful examination.

Unless someone wants to dispute these, I plan to eliminate this description. Novangelis (talk) 01:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

None of the three apply. Johnston Flood was in some part (actually, a major part--largest downpour ever recorded there then), a natural disaster. Sultana had many non-civilians. Like the Titanic, the General Slocum likely (in fact, certainly) had a substantial number of non-Americans (Germans), though no complete count by citizenship has been published.

That's why the soured material refers to Jonestown as the largest American civilian death toll not involving natural disasters.Mosedschurte (talk) 01:21, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Saying a legal resident of the United States is not an American civilian is weak. The word in the quote is civilian, not citizen. There is absolutely no meaningful analogy to the Titanic which was carrying immigrants who were not yet processed through Ellis Island. The General Slocum was carrying a local New York population between two points in New York and there might have been some non-residents aboard.

The Sultana was carrying numerous paroled soldiers. By terms of the Dix-Hill Cartel, the paroled POWs aboard the Sultana could not be in any form of military service. They were ex-military aboard the ship. It is a fine line. Novangelis (talk) 06:35, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

(1) POWs aren't civilians, regardless of their ability to perform military service in the future.

(2) There is no confirmation on the number of American citizens aboard the General Slocum, and in fact, we knew that it was likely carrying significant numbers of German citizens.

Thus, there is no reason to think the listed sources on the subject are not accurate. In fact, there is rather the opposite -- they mostly presumably are correct, and the tangential speculation likely is not.Mosedschurte (talk) 08:28, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

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"The Peoples Temple Agricultural Project" ( or "Mission") Was the Formal Name

There was no formal name "Jonestown." That's what the PT members called it because of their feelings for Jones, especially after the mid-1977 migration, though some called it that before hand (most referred to it as the Project, the Mission or The Promised Land).

Because of some odd drive to delete this from the article, a cite has now been provided for this otherwise obvious reality. Please stop deleting this from the article.Mosedschurte (talk) 07:40, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Could a section on the aftermath talk of the experience of the Army in clean-up?"

This is another group of Jonestown victims that suffered sever PTS from the experience. Thoughts? Skipdownthestreet.

External links

Trimmed down EL sect, added {{No more links}}. Cirt (talk) 14:40, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

A list of names, photos and rememberances is at

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/WhoDied/whodied_list.php —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.185.227.59 (talk) 03:36, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

"proved instrumental"

Was the People's Temple "instrumental" in Moscone's election, or was it just useful? Is there any way to estimate the scale of the assistance? (Currently, the article just references a PBS documentary, which is considerably less useful than a textual source.) -- Doom (talk) 00:45, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Cherry picking of primary sources

It purported to practice what it called "apostolic socialism."

This statement is sourced to a primary source transcript that does not make this claim. Material from primary sources must be supported by secondary sources. I've added {{Primary source claim}} until someone can support this interpretation. Viriditas (talk) 21:48, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

In doing so, the Temple preached to established members that "those who remained drugged with the opiate of religion had to be brought to enlightenment — socialism"

This quote does not appear to have any relation to the primary source cited. It does contain an additional source, however, from Layton 1999, p. 53. I would like to see the context of the paragraph it is used. It is highly unusual for an introductory sections on the origins of a topic to use primary sources to support specific claims. Because introductory sections on the origins of a topic are well represented in reliable sources, it is not only unnecessary, but it is an automatic WP:REDFLAG about the claims that are used. Viriditas (talk) 22:15, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

NPOV

This article used to discuss the nature of the sealed classified records and what is termed the Jonestown_conspiracy_theory. Could someone explain why these two important points have been deleted from the article? Per NPOV, significant POV must be addressed with reliable sources. Since both of these topics have been discussed in RS, why were they removed? I'm adding a NPOV tag as a result. Viriditas (talk) 21:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I can't speak to the classified records, but the conspiracy theories were spun off into a separate article. I'm not sure how that is an issue. Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:50, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Here is one previous version. Here are the two sources that were used: , . The SFGate source makes it clear that the 5000 pages of classified records and the conspiracy theories are important issues. They both meet WP:V, and per WP:NPOV, significant POV must be represented. Viriditas (talk) 21:55, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

And not to be flip, but my main role on this article has been clean up of reference formatting and general wikignome activities. I am not really prepared, nor do I really want, to engage in discussion about the content. I didn't write the majority of it and I am not prepared to defend or discuss it, but in all due respect, I hope this isn't carryover from elsewhere. Wildhartlivie (talk) 23:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

That's perfectly fine, and if you are willing to work with me on the reference format, I would be happy to work with you. As you can see, the references are duplicated unnecessarily due to page number. All we need to do is move the duplicated refs to a reference/bibliography section and cite the page numbers using author date format. Could you help me with that? As for the "carryover from elsewhere", yes, my attention was drawn to this article due to the actions of another user who has been active here, and per WP:HOUND, "Proper use of an editor's history includes (but is not limited to) fixing errors or violations of Misplaced Pages policy or correcting related problems on multiple articles," which is exactly what I'm doing. The editor in question has a documented history (multiple incident reports on AN and other noticeboards) violating sourcing and NPOV. With that said, I'm not focusing on this particular editor, but rather the problems I see in the article(s) and attempting to fix them if I am able. If this isn't clear, feel free to ask me additional questions, however, I would appreciate your help with fixing the references. Viriditas (talk) 00:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

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