Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:47, 3 December 2005

Join RWNB!

Hello, Ghirlandajo! Thought you might be interested in the Russian wikipedians' notice board. Come check it out! KNewman 19:27, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)

Kostroma

Quite a coup! Congratulations! --Wetman 17:40, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Thanks!! See also Rostov and Uglich. I hope to post articles on all the Golden Ring towns shortly. --Ghirlandajo 20:42, 19 Dec 2004

==Mattise's Portrait of Lydia Delectorskaya ==

Hi, I just came across this image:Lidia matisse.jpg. I am not familiar with Soviet Union's laws, but I know Matisse lived mainly in France, and his works could be protected by French copyright law in France and other Berne Convention parties. Do you happen to know where the work is first published? Tomos 12:02, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I cannot be sure where the portrait was published, so I changed {sovietpd} to {PD-old-50}. In my jurisdiction (I live in Russia) Matisse's work passed to the public domain on the 50th anniversary of his death. --Ghirlandajo 13:54, 20 Dec 2004 (GMT)

Hi. Thank you for your reply. I came up with another question. It seems that under many copyright laws, author's life + 50 years is calculated in a little tricky way: counting starts from the beginning of the next year of the author's death, and last until 50 year passes. It is, in other words, treat as if the author died at the last second of the last day of a year. Berne Convention's article 7-(5) has that provision, and that is reflected in many copyright laws, I think. In that case, the copyright protection last until the end of 2004. It may be wise to wait just about 10 days to attach that {PD-old-50} tag.

In case you don't mind reading the legal text, the Berne Convention article 7 is here: Tomos 04:42, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Saint Petersburg

Thanks for the great old picture additions to the article - wonderful! Leonard G. 00:32, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Your objectives at Misplaced Pages

your "russophobic hysteria"

What are your objectives at Misplaced Pages? Are you contributing knowledge or infiltrating Russian imperial propaganda? Try to stay more polite and avoid such statements. --rydel 11:40, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Improving vs vandalism

I don't mind if you correct my language/grammer, or if you move various article parts to better articles. However, simply reverting/deleting changes because *you* think they are not pretty is not a creative action. Wiki goal is not to be a beautiful novel, but an encyclopedia. Nice language is nice, but it is the information part that is essential. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:45, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

FYI, I support changes you made to Polish king template. Adding info is good. Removing info is bad. About Wladyslaw - obviously he didn't rule for long, or actually not at all, but he was crowned, wasn't he? You should expand on this - or why is it wrong - instead of deleting stuff, which leads to revert war and banning ppl from editing. We don't want that, do we? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:59, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus, firstly Wladyslaw wasn't so much as generally accepted as a Russian tsar, let alone crowned. He was a Russian tsar in a sense that Edward III was the king of France. Secondly, the article on him contains a ridiculous statement that he ruled Russia for quarter a century (1610-35). You may check it out yourself. Ghirlandajo 17:11, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Your listing of Emax as vandal

I believe your listing of Emax as a vandal is improper. He is really not a vandal but rather someone who pushes his own agenda. That's different from vandalism. You may want to take a look at Misplaced Pages:Dispute_resolution for gudance on how to deal with such problems. If he is really violating the WP:3RR, he will likely loose the case. --Gene s 08:24, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I would agree here that the dispute you have with Emax is not an appropriate one for VIP. Disagreements over content are not vandalism. I am not defending Emax here; I live about as far away from the Polish/Russian border as is possible, and I have no view on the dispute. Follow the dispute resolution procedures.-gadfium 09:16, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

By the way, I would like to list User:Emax on Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment for his refusal to use talk pages, generally uncooperative behavior, and personal attacks. I need a second contributor for that. Please contact me if you would like to do that. --Gene s 09:23, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Muscovy/Time of Troubles

Please see Talk:Muscovy#Time of Trouble section split to a new article. --Gene s 08:56, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Black sea - looking a bit orange

Hi Ghirlandajo,

I've just closed the Featured Pictures nomination for Prokudin-Gorskii's Black Sea in 1915. The concensus was a bit borderline, so I defaulted to not promoting — which is a bit disappointing.

I rather thought the concerns over a slightly sloping horizon were somewhat besides the point. However, since I got the impression that most of the support votes were positive due to its being interesting early colour photography, whilst most of the oppose votes were worried about the horizon, I was wondering whether there was a different Prokudin-Gorskii colour photograph that could be nominated (preferably one with strong colours but no obvious horizon... :) -- Solipsist 12:09, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Category:Towns in Russia

Can you tell me for which Russian places we should use this category? Does it depend on population? If so - tell me border between towns and cities, because in Russia cites and towns are not divided. Thank you. MaxiMaxiMax 07:14, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC) <...>

If you don't answer I will have to revert your category changes, sorry. MaxiMaxiMax 09:00, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You would return Gzhel and Ust-Izhora in the same category with Moscow and St Petersburg? Good luck to you! I don't think that such changes are good for the Wiki, however. There is so much more important things you can do. I trasfer this discussion from my page to RWNB talk page. Ghirlandajo 09:29, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I hope it will help. MaxiMaxiMax 09:31, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Jozeph Gurko

Um, in the article itself, as well as on your user page, you used the 's' form of the first name (which gets google hits), but the article is titled with a 'z' (which gets zero hits). Is there any particular reason the article shouldn't be moved to the 's' form? (I'd get input from my Russian roommate, but she won't be back from work for at least 6-7 hours). Thanks. Niteowlneils 17:55, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC) Talk

I found that the same basic article had been added a few weeks ago as Joseph Vladimirovich, Count Gourko. I liked your intro better (it established why he was notable right away), and you had some extra info at the end and an additional cat, so I moved all that to the earlier one, moved it to Joseph Vladimirovich Gourko and made Jozeph Gurko a redir (and updated all the pages that were looking for it there), along with some extra redirs to try and keep it from getting accidentally duplicated again. I even found an article that didn't link to either of them, so now Veliko Turnovo does. Niteowlneils 05:43, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Khotyn

Great additions! Thank you! -- Chris 73 Talk 10:40, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)

Regarding Emax

Let's bring an arbitration case against Emax. If you agree to support my move to file charges against him, we should do it tomorrow. --Gene s 15:06, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

ß íå âîçðàæàþ, íî íèêîãäà íå ó÷àñòâîâàë â òðåòåéñêèõ ïðîöåäóðàõ ðàíåå. Êàêèì îáðàçîì ýòî ïðîèñõîäèò? --Ghirlandajo 15:12, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

See WP:DR, WP:RFAr. And please do use summary field in your edits, because it's difficult to argue against Emax for his no-summary edits when you often do the same. I am leaving for today now. Bye. --Gene s 15:59, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The guy got banned for 24 hours. Let's see if that is enough. I guess there is no need for further action at this time. --Gene s 05:35, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Anti-Polonism

Are you actually disputing the article on Anti-Polonism? I'm asking because I can't find any comments from you, neither in the edit history, nor in the talk page. Could you explain what is it that you find NPOV on the talk page? Alternatively we could simply erase the NPOV tag. Halibutt 09:32, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)

==Touches of Neoclassicism at the Gatchina==

That's a spectacular illustration you've added. I hope you won't be cross that I shifted it upwards and gave some specific text to show how conservative taste could employ some hints of neoclassical features within a wholly Rococo setting in the 1770s. This is an Orlov interior, so I added it at Gatchina to contrast with Paul's neoclassic gallery. (Old Rinaldi died in 1794.) --Wetman 09:08, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Так всё-таки...

Надо всё-таки подойти к консенсусу по статье Russification (ответҗте на User talk:Untifler)/ Заранее спасибо. --Untifler 19:11, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Russian Symbolist movement

Just a note of thanks for your recent edits at Symbolism (arts) and for the Vrubel image as well. Someone does need to do the article about the Russian Symbolist movement; it probably would help a whole lot if the person who created it read Russian. -- Smerdis of Tlön 15:19, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thank you most kindly. Will have a look. Smerdis of Tlön 04:55, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== Pic of the day ==

Hi Ghirlandajo,

Just to let you know that your Prokudin-Gorskii picture, Image:Lugano prokudin.jpg, is up for Pic of the Day on the 6th March. You can check and improve the caption at Misplaced Pages:Picture of the day/March 6, 2005. -- Solipsist 10:03, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Russian Foreign Ministers

Hi Ghirlandajo! Could you please add all of the names of the Russian foreign ministers to your Russian Foreign Ministers template? I'm not sure how to do it. It somehow starts with Ordyn-Naschekin and ommits all of the ministers precedeing him. Or is it on purpose? Thank you! KNewman 18:53, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

Just a little more patience

Hi, Ghirlandajo! I am very glad to see you back and very much appreciate your knowledgeable editing over the articles I created/worked on previously as well as over all articles. May I ask you to please be more patient, except of course, when you simply add more info to the article, as you did very well with St. Andrew's Church. For example, I spent some time looking for the info on children of Svyatoslav II and I was kind of sorry to see this just blanked. If you think I made a mistake on who their mother was, sure correct it. Same with Ivan Fyodorov. I didn't erase your version about "annihilation" but raised the objection first, because I agree that there is indeed a controversy going in Lvov regarding the issue. I am sure all the differences can be resolved at relevant article's talk pages. I am just asking you to change what you see as mistakes with little more patience. If we just stick to facts, we will be able to defend the info from being manipulated by all sorts of nationalist, -philes, -phobes, imperialists and (insert any other cliche here).

Some time ago I tried to move forward the History of Christianity in Ukraine article as well as the articles of several Ukrainian churches. I kind of lost the steam but I would appreciate any input there.

Finally, the Ukrainian Wikiportal put together by several users is almost ready to be released. I made a draft based on Misplaced Pages:Wikiportal/Russia which I helped maintain to a very small degree. Now, improved by several coworkers it is still at my userspace at User:Irpen/uawp and we plan to soon move it to Misplaced Pages:Wikiportal/Ukraine and link to it prominently in several major UA-related articles like Ukraine, Ukrainian language, etc. If you want to take a look at it and propose changes at its talk pages, or just do them if you don't expect opposition, your help would be most appreciated. Thank you, -Irpen 19:59, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

Recent Polish names campaign

Hi, Ghirlandajo! Thanks for your support at talk:Minsk page. I hope the stories with name insertion like the recent ones with Kiev and Minsk articles won't be too common. There are many reasonable people among the Polish editors, although some certainly have issues with sensitive national pride. On my own, I recently compiled the discussions from several talk pages regarding the Kijow in Kiev article and placed the compilation in my userspace. If you want, take a look at it at User talk:Irpen/Kijów in Kiev article. Finally, if this is going to start over, I don't think placing "Varshava" in the Warsaw article and "Belostok" into Bialystok would help. That's exactly a WP:Point position took by several editors that disrupted the Kiev article for the day. Stchastlivo, -Irpen 06:10, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

Pictures needed

Hi there, Ghirlandajo! I thought you left us for some reason. Haven't seen you in a while. Good to have you back. I don't know if you check Misplaced Pages:Wikiportal/Russia on a regular basis or not, but I would really appreciate it if you could find and upload some nice pictures of different Russian monasteries. I posted two articles about monasteries under the "Requested images" section. You did a wonderful job on finding images for other monasteries, so I figured you could help us out here. Check the Russian Wikiportal more often! I look forward to working with you on other articles, as well. Cheers! KNewman 12:42, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Images

I see you are doing art articles, with plenty of pics. I'd suggest you to put images into wikicommons, where they can be accessible from other-language wikipedias as well. mikka (t) 23:22, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Ghirlandajo, what is wrong with a frame and an description for Marr. I understand it is silly, but why revert it? with respect, Vald 11:19, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

French translation

Why not for a translation of Vladimir, but it is already done ... :fr:Vladimir. Anyway, I am trying to do a new article about a World Heritage site every day (original - like DR Congo or Belgium- or a de/en/nl/ translation), and I will probably translate some other russian ones...

Kind regards,

Vincent

Nikolay Nikanorovich Dubovskoy

Thanks for tracking down the Imperial Academy of Arts. I knew there should be an article but couldn't find it. Now I hope I'll find the other articles that needed the link as well. Rl 09:21, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Great Russian language

Hi Ghirlandajo! I would like to repeat all my compliments for the fine work you do on WP. I was really caught off guard by your calling my edit Russophobic, especially because other editors called other edits by me as of the Russian Imperialist. In fact, I think that any nationalism or national phobias are all bad. Please see my entry at talk:Great Russian language and respond there if you would like. I would really like to stay in friendly terms with editors whose work I respect and who contribute to topics in which I am also interested. Regards, -Irpen June 28, 2005 21:27 (UTC)

Nordmann Fir

Hi Ghirlandajo - I've changed the height of these from 85m to 78m as that is the tallest I can find reference to (). Still the tallest tree in Europe by about 15m, if correct. Do you have any details of the 85m report, particularly with documentation of measurement methods? A lot of tall tree measurements are unfortunately very unreliable, unless done with high precision laser equipment with several measurements taken from different angles. - MPF 1 July 2005 10:56 (UTC)

The UNESCO experts state that "the forests include very large specimens, including possibly the largest trees in Europe: specimens of Abies nordmanniana 85m high with a diameter of more than 2m" . See the list of literature at the top of the page. If you don't mind, I'll restore the original phrasing in the article on Western Caucasus. --Ghirlandajo 1 July 2005 11:13 (UTC)

Thanks; I'm happy to let the 85m stay on the basis of that reference, though it would be nice to get more verification including the methods of measurement. - MPF 1 July 2005 14:03 (UTC)

An ooops! - the pic you have added at Western Caucasus is an American Bison! - I'll change it - MPF 1 July 2005 14:05 (UTC)

Curonian Spit

Hi, why have you removed the Category:Geography of Lithuania Category:Notable places in Lithuania categories from Curonian Spit article ? --wojsyl (talk) 3 July 2005 16:23 (UTC)

Good News!

There is now a stub template for Eastern Orthodox Christianity-related articles in need of expansion. Please add {{orthodoxy-stub}} to articles. You can also go to the Category page for Eastern Orthodox Christianity-related stubs and click the "watch this page" link in the sidebar, so that you can see new stub articles as they appear. Spread the word! JHCC (talk) 6 July 2005 14:57 (UTC)

A must

Hello, Ghirlandajo! First of all, let me thank you for your award! It actually means a lot to me, even though this whole barnstar business may seem a bit childish to some people :). It'll keep me going! Secondly, I wanted to write an article on Cerkov' Pokrova na Nerli, but I'm not sure what it's called in English. Do you have any idea? I hope you can help me out with it. Pictures will be of extreme importance, since this church is considered one of the most wonderful examples of the Russian architecture. What are you working on right now and what do you plan to write in the near future? KNewman July 8, 2005 23:32 (UTC)

Dmitry Konstantinovich

Thank you so much for your edits, I find them magnificientGnomz007 18:05, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

World Heritage Sites

I can't add to your excellent material on the Radziwill nest etc., but you inspire me to note that a program to ensure decent Misplaced Pages coverage of all 812 (not really so many) World Heritage Sites would make a good project for the grown-ups. --Wetman 04:07, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Amber Room

See Talk:Amber Room. Have you actually read their book? Noel (talk) 08:55, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Leaving for good?

Hey, Ghirlandajo! Why do you want to leave for good? High-speed internet connection got too expensive in Yaroslavl? Please, drop me a line. KNewman 21:23, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

Despite several disagreements we had on specific issues, I would hate so see you go. I understand the time constraints factor though. I hope you sill still be around as an occasional editor (the mode to which I switch myself often) and will contribute from time to time and correct the mistakes of others. Cheers, --Irpen 20:12, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Irpen. Just make sure you check it out every now and then. Usually, people leave this place only as a result of some revert wars and not because they simply don't have time :). It may be sad, but it is true that a wikifan can always find time for Misplaced Pages, you know that :). Just choose the right dosage, and you will be fine. See you soon. KNewman 21:40, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

1877 war

I've put the pucture there because the source was a russian site, because it is part of history, and because the article regarding romanian independence war will be soon be deleted, i can't merge the articles because i don't know how. But if you wish to delete the picture, think again, is your poin of view objective? For people from the balkans russian liberation is equivalent with occupation. I would not put again the picture on the article, it is up to you if you let the picture there or not,was the romanian troops importance signifiant or not? There was a calling for help from russian side. It is fair not to mention that help? It is up to you to decide.

But to edit the article was an interesting task, I've realized how extremist some people are..

• The looses or romanian army were: over 10,000 deads and wounds
• Haveing great looses, the Great Duke Nicolae, the commandant of the front from Balkani, sent to prince Carol the following telegramme: "The turks, useing the greatest troop at Plevna distried us. I bag you to make fusion with us, make demonstration, and if it is possible, pass the Danube with your army, as you will. Between Jiu and Corabia, this demonstration is absolutely necessary to enable my movements".
• Although it didn`t exist a military convention between the two states, Romania accorded military help. The romanians passed the Danube and the Prince Carol the 1st received the command of romanian -russian troops at Plevna.

After hard fights, Plevna was conquered, romanians struggled also in Vidin - Belogradcik zone.

http://erastimes.8m.net/gambit_page3.htm

Belsky --> Volsky_Volsky">

Hi there, Ghirlandajo! I checked with the Great Soviet Encyclopedia, and it somehow says it was F.M.Volsky in the Kineshma article. Check it out for yourself . Could it be that they are wrong? Cheers. KNewman 17:00, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

Kazan Kremlin news

Zdravstvujte! Vy obnovili tol'ko chto `etu stranicu. No "On the feast day of the..." ne ukazyvet ni na kakuyu konkretnuyu datu. Raz uzh vy napisali i ob `etom sobytii, ne mogli by vy v toj zhe stepeni podrobno napisat' i ob oficial'nom otkrytii mecheti Kul SHarif, kotoroe proizoshlo neskol'kimi nedelyami ran'she i yavlyaetsya stol' zhe vazhnym sobytiem v duhovnoj zhizni goroda (hotya, pohozhe ne vsej strany vcelom) :) --Untifler 13:17, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Ksnyatin

Hi there, Ghirlandajo! I'm a bit confused. Is it Ksnyatin, or Sknyatin, or Sknyatino, or Ksnyatino? Your article is named Ksnyatin, but deals with Sknyatino in it. Were there two names for the town? KNewman 14:09, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

Primary Chronicle

I was really surprised by your unmotivated edit at Olga of Kiev. I suggest that you check with the primary chronicle before making such edits.--Wiglaf 21:07, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Image:Vikings-Voyages.png

Haven't you noticed that Staraya Ladoga is misspelled on the map? Also, I believe that Kiev should be spelled Kaenugard, and Novgorod - Holmsgard, as per Garðaríki article. --Ghirlandajo 09:12, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I have, but I did not make the original map. If you can fix the problems, go ahead.--Wiglaf 09:43, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Tnx for the image!

For ! I was looking for this image since the day I wrote this article, but I lost the newspaper with the picture data :> It's great to have some non-Polish side pic there. I recently saw another one, but again I lost the newspaper before I wrote down the details - it was sth like 'the last minutes (?) of Tsar Dimitri'. Perhaps you can find it? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 14:33, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes :) Tnx :) If you know of any other pictures we could use for Polish-Russian history articles, do let me know, or just add them where possible. I always say good history is a well-illustrated history :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:58, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Image:Sochi.jpg

How can this image be from 1915 if it's in a (beautiful) full color ? Did you colorized it? And if it's not from 1915 are we sure it's public domain? --Alexandre Van de Sande 23:07, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

See Sergei Mikhailovich Prokudin-Gorskii and the corresponding gallery in Commons for more information. The image that caught your eye is the second Prokudin-Gorskii's image uploaded by me which came to be recognized as featured picture. Prokudin's images are public domain from the Library of Congress website: see here for this one. The date is fixed arbitrarily, as the photos were actually taken in the period from 1905 to 1915. --Ghirlandajo 06:19, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Slavic cultural differences

How would you descirbe cultural differences between Slavs, and influence of Mongol culture on some groups in order not ? I don't think that the Mongol control did influence in some ways some Slavic nations is disputed among historians.That is why I provided link to review of such study.I don't want to offend anybody but absolutism, "oriental despotism" are and influence of Mongol culture on this are issues researched by historians. Good day to you and I am waiting for answer.--Molobo 15:31, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Stirlitz

Hello, perhaps you could explain to me why the name spells both Stirlitz and von Stierlitz? I also noticed, that you changed Standartenführer to link back to Colonel, was it intentional? Thanks for your answers. -- pt 14:47, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

coor template

you apparently think the link looks unsightly, and I'd be happy to stuff it under external links; I do think, however, that any article about an item with a geographic location should ultimately get a machine readable encoding of its coordinates. This ties in with Misplaced Pages:Semantic Misplaced Pages, and will ultimately allow to sort Misplaced Pages articles geographically, search for Misplaced Pages articles near your present location, that sort of thing. dab (ᛏ) 19:33, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Minusa River

incidentially, since you're Russian, could you help us with the "Minusa River" case? See User_talk:FourthAve#Minusa_2. dab (ᛏ) 19:41, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing a sneaky POV insertion at Baturyn

Hi, Ghirlandajo. Sorry, I just missed what others did before your edit there and initially I thought you were removing my numbers that were actually well sourced. I did a fast-hand restore without realizing that I was restoring to the false numbers inserted just before that.

Berdiansk

I am glad we agreed at talk:Berdiansk. I would be interested to know what you think about my proposal at talk:Kamianets-Podilskyi about the sick trend of games with the names.

Also, you may want to take a look at correct this.

Regards, --Irpen Irpen 05:12, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

Amber room (again)

Hi, you still haven't replied (at Talk:Amber Room). I got my copy of the book back, and added information about the authors, and a direct quote of their conclusions, to the talk: page. I have also added information from a number of reviews of the book. Unless you can show me some good reason not to mention their conclusions in the article, I'm going to put back that text you took out. Noel (talk) 19:09, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Battle of Borodino

Can you respond at Talk:Battle of Borodino? The claim you are trying to reinsert is almost certainly false, as I explained in my comments on the talk page. Gdr 15:12:17, 2005-08-15 (UTC)

Juraj Krizanic

Thanks for the article. I was planning to create it at some time in the future. Pavel Vozenilek 23:38, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Recent Kaliningrad Oblast edits

Hello! There have been a number of recent extensive edits to the Kaliningrad Oblast article. The additions look to be in good faith, but I am not terribly familiar with the great amount of Lithuanian history presented now. I also am not sure if that article is the proper place for that content. You might be interested in taking a look at it. Olessi 21:18, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I am glad we also agreed on some things. Poka! --Irpen 23:18, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Gytha of Wessex

See my comments on the Talk page at Gytha of Wessex where I present my evidence for the birthdates of her children. They are not based on pure speculation; there is good reason to believe Izyaslav was born 1077/1078, for instance. Missi

RU/UA/PL related issues

Hi, thanks for bringing up and working on Koleda. The coordinated action was swifted and decisive. On a different topic, you complained that Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian Commonwealth created by Piotrus is pro-Polish biased. Actually, I already added some alternative views to the article before announcing it. Is it really that bad? Anyway, you're welcome to neutralize it. And while at it, check a closely related discussion at talk:History of Kiev. --Irpen 18:33, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

Zilant

Privet! Stat'ya gotova, no k sozhaleniyu napisana na uzhasnom anglijskom... CHast' russkogo teksta lezhit v obsuzhdenii stat'i. Trebuetsya pomosch' znayuschih anglijskij! --Untifler 12:57, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Koe chto bylo uteryano pri pereformatirovanii: naprimer transkripcii nekotoryh nazvanij. Uteryana takzhe informaciya o "Zilantau" (naibolee veroyatno, chto imenno cherez `etot toponim v russkij i proniklo slovo "ZilaNT"). Hotelos' by takzhe korrektno napisat' na pin'jine slovo CHzhelyan - imenno tak u Gumileva pishetsya nazvanie doliny na Altae. O eio suschestvovanii emu stalo izvestno iz kitajskih istochnikov - bylo by neploho dobavit' ieroglify. Kstati, esli nekotoryh simvolov net v anglijskoj klaviature, tablica rasshirennoj latinicy lezhit pod knopkoj "Sohranit'" (`eto vazhno dlya peredachi nekotoryh zvukov). S uvazheniem, --Untifler 12:22, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

revert stuff on Early Swedish History

Hi. I encouraged Wiglaf to write on Talk:Early Swedish History instead of engaging in revert stuff. I hope you could take a look at that page too, and post your comments.

Fred-Chess 16:23, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Russian tsarinas

There are Elizabeth Alexeyevna (Louise of Baden), Alexandra Fyodorovna (Charlotte of Prussia), Maria Alexandrovna (Marie of Hesse) Arrigo 10:18, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

So what? --Ghirlandajo 10:19, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Have you proofread them? How about checking their correctness now? Arrigo 10:22, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

And linking interwiki to pages in Russian WP..Arrigo 10:23, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Btw, are you happy with how their articles are titled? Arrigo 10:36, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Heathens

the reason that Baltoslavic pagans are not mentioned is that until recently, the article was called Persecution of Asatruers, and there is an ongoing debate about the article's scope at Talk:Persecution of Heathens -- I suggest you weigh into that discussion before you start adding warning templates. dab (ᛏ) 14:52, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

By the way, feel free to add the articles Persecution of Romuva, Persecution of Dievturiba and whatever else may be needed. // Liftarn

Thanks!

Dear Ghirlandajo, your addition about the Haithabu connection reminded me that the House of Rurik and the House of Hedeby have something in common - both are said to be of Swedish origin. That is very relevant in the article! Good Job! :D--Wiglaf 15:29, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I corrected your new mistake by pointing out that there had been no "Sweden" and no "Swedish origin" prior to Haithabu. --Ghirlandajo 15:32, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks it is great to have a real authority on Scandinavian history like you.--Wiglaf 15:35, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

OK, I will not revert this time, but you should know that Adam of Bremen is not an authority on matters of mediaeval genealogy at all. I suspect that this long-discarded info comes from one of the much later scholias, which the reputable historians normally discredit. I will be back after checking this point. --Ghirlandajo 15:54, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Troitse-Sergiyeva Lavra on Wikicommons

I might be wrong about this image belonging to Kustodiev, but this image is certainly not a photo. I think it's quite obvious when you look at it, that it is a painting (whatever they say in the Library of congress). Also, on ru:wikipedia it has been attributed to Kustodiev (although I'm not sure about that). If you find out who is the author, please do put in the details, but meanwhile I'll get in touch with the person on ru:wikipedia and see what he says...--Dyadya S`em 20:21, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I explained that the image is actually photochrom retrieved from here. I have uploaded many similar images from 1890s on Moscow, Odessa, St Petersburg, etc. --Ghirlandajo 08:28, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Horosho :) --Dyadya sam 09:55, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

The Haithabu hypothesis

Briangotts wrote "I have read the haithabu hypothesis in very few publications, to describe it as consensus of W authorities is going too far". Don't try to blow up your favourite theory to majority view.--Wiglaf 09:13, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Fruit fetishism

I've rewritten fruit fetishism. Cheers! -- BDAbramson 19:58, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

The article is alright now. I've withdrawn my nomination. --Ghirlandajo 06:20, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Russian article announcements

Thanks for the heads-up! I didn't know about that page. Olessi 20:42, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Allies of World War II

A long discussion has just ended concerning that article and how to mention the relationship between Germany and USSR in it. Some kind of compromise has been reached. Therefore, please, think carefully before introducing new changes, so that the battle does not start again.Balcer 14:49, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Have you thought about mentioning Poland and Hitler as wartime allies? It took two to dismember Czechoslovakia in 1938, if you know what I mean. --Ghirla 19:18, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

the Arkaim image

seriously Ghirlandajo, you should stop spamming the Arkaim image to unrelated articles; Andronovo culture, Indo-Iranians, Indo-Aryan migration are all fair enough, but Mandala? At the top of the article, too? I think you are being to enthusiastic about those clearly pseudoscientific/esoteric claims about the site. The settlement was round. The similarity with swastikas and mandalas ends there. dab (ᛏ) 17:04, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

If you had looked at the edit histories, you would have noticed that I added this image to all those articles in just one hour several days ago. If you feel that the image is redundant and that unillustrated article is better, just remove it. --Ghirlandajo

History of western architecture

Hi, I reverted your addition of Russian architecture to the "History of western architecture" series, because it is a series about the history of architecture rather than the architecture of individual countries. You will notice that the other articles refer to the architecture of a certain period only. Thus, an article on Stalinist architecture, for example, would be a more appropriate addition if that style of architecture were sufficiently influential. Burschik 14:30, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

So please explain why Sumerian architecture (which may hardly be termed "western", BTW) and Byzantine architecture made their way to the list? I don't see how medieval Russian architecture was less influential than the Byzantine one. Moreover, the "History of Western architecture" in EB 2004 includes a section on medieval Russian architecture up to ca. 1700. --Ghirlandajo 14:59, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, on the discussion page of the template, I said that I was not sure Sumerian architecture belonged in the series. Feel free to remove it. If you think Byzantine architecture had less influence than Russian architecture (on the Western tradition) please feel free to remove it also. But the main point I wanted to make is that the article on Russian architecture is not an article about a specific period in the history of architecture, unlike the others in the list. You will note that the list does not include German architecture, French architecture or Italian architecture either. Burschik 15:25, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I have nothing against Sumerian architecture, whilst the presence of Byzantine architecture is peremptory. I just want to point out that neither German architecture nor Dutch architecture nof Swedish architecture are truly individual, as they are covered by terms "Gothic", "Romanesque", "Renaissance", etc. The Russian architecture, on the other hand, had been isolated for centuries, so the terms like gothic or renaissance are hardly applicable to it. In other words, removing R.a. from the list makes a void which other entries would not compensate. --Ghirlandajo 15:42, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Shirali Mislimov

The Category for Supercentenarians is NOT for unverified cases.(I may not believe in registered accounts,but I have studied supercentenarians for years and essentially introduced coverage of them to Misplaced Pages,besides compiling a widely known standard list).He belongs under Longevity myths only.--Louis Epstein/le@put.com/12.144.5.2 19:08, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Louis, if you are the alt.talk.royalty regular I recall from my Usenet days, you'd better register, for registration makes Wiki-discussion much easier. Although I will not revert anymore, I'm sure Shirali fits into the category for Supercentenarians. Otherwise, we should set up separate categories for Verified Supercentenarians and Unverified Supercentenarians. --Ghirlandajo 19:21, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes,that's me,and I've done well over 3000 Misplaced Pages edits since 2003 without registering.I never register for websites. I don't see any reason to accord category status to the unverified.--Louis E./le@put.com/12.144.5.2 02:55, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Question about articles by anon's

Hi. I noticed that you often let us know about articles created by anonymous users in Portal:Ukraine/New article announcements.

As far as I can judge, many of such articles contain no ] entries and lack links to everything else.

Do you just happen to come across these articles by chance or is there some other way? Sashazlv 18:19, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

See Special:Newpages. Cheers, Ghirlandajo 18:38, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Lubeh

Thank you very much for helping me with the Lubeh article. I am going to add more CD covers soon, and maybe a sound sample. Zach (Sound Off) 17:18, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Naryshkin baroque

That is a realy interesting page - Have you ever thought of expanding it? Giano | talk 20:36, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I haven't. I plan to add more articles on Naryshkin structures, as well as new entries on Stroganov baroque, Petrine baroque, and Moscow Gothic Revival. --Ghirlandajo 18:01, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Great Northern War

August had no right to start war on behalf of Poland (This was Poland, nobles' democracy, ok - king had no right to start the war). Therefore, he started war only as king of Saxony. Poland was NEUTRAL and the fact that it shared king with Saxony had not changed that situation. In other words, Polish armies were not fighting against Sweden, Polish senate sent congratulatory notes to Charles XII and it was Charles XII who by invasion break that neutrality. But even when Swedes were deep inside Polish territory some Poles still were considering themselves neutral and thought it is merely war of Saxon king, not Polish king. 150.254.130.180 13:05, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Print from image you added

Hey,

Do you know where I can get the high-resolution file or a print from this image:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Godunov_map.jpg

My son is performing the role of Feodor with the Houston Grand Opera this month. I would love to get him a print as a gift. Thanks, SRHookEm

I don't know where you can get the print, but you map check the map Feodor is drawing on the website of the Russian State Library. It is linked from and reprinted in the Ru wiki article on Feodor II of Russia. You may check it here. Cheers, Ghirlandajo 22:12, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I can't get the image to load off the link you supply. Also, how do I ask the Russian State Library for help? The info is in Russian. I can't even email them! I'm sure they have a high resolution copy of the image. I just can't get to them to ask. Can you help with that? SRHookEm

You may try this link and this. I found a map of Moscow inserted in the larger map of Russia zoomed here. Try to reach them at cart@nlr.ru. --Ghirlandajo 16:46, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Hello again. I think you're looking at the wrong image. I want the image of Boris Godunov looking at his son Feodor drawing the map. It's not an image of the map but of the father and son together. See my link--doesn't it display the image "Boris Godunov at the study of his son"? Also, the email address you list comes back to me. SRHookEm

Russian Buddhism

I'm pretty sure both of the statements you flagged in Buddhism in the Russian Federation are factually correct, although the first one is oddly worded. I'll check around for the citation you requested. - Nat Krause 06:46, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Krolewiec

Please look in Gdansk Vote.According to it Krolewiec has to be used.At the time it was part of a Polish fief and thus "shares history".According to the vote it must be double named with Polish name --Molobo 16:39, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I see no connection between Konigsberg and Gdansk. Konigsberg has a well-established English name for the whole of its pre-WWII history. Not so with Danzig/Gdansk. Further discussion moved to the Talk:Kant Russian State University. --Ghirlandajo 16:44, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Irrelevant. The vote was made towards all locations with "shared history".They don't have to be connected to Gdansk. --Molobo 19:58, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Pyotr Kozlov

Hi, Ghirlandajo! Could you please still consider answering my question at Talk:Pyotr Kuzmich Kozlov? Like I said before, it's nothing urgent, but I would like to get an answer eventually. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 12:38, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Check the page. I moved the article and answered your question 4 days ago ;) --Ghirlandajo 12:59, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

That's what I get for having a watchlist that exceeds twelve hundred entries. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 13:50, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

DYK

Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article D.S. Mirsky, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Ogińscy - Rurikids?

What's the connection between Ogińscy family and Rurikids? I've noticed you have been adding Rurkids cat to Ogińscy members. Same with Ostrogski. How were they related? Btw, you may want to create at least stub articles on the families history. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 03:22, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Like so many descendants of the Rurikid House of Smolensk, the Oginskis lost their princely dignity in course of time. The provenance of Ostrogskis is still disputed, but their descent from Svyatopolk II seems to be corroborated by the records in the medieval synodics, as represented there. I already contributed Ostrogski back in January and plan to enlarge on the Rurikids as the inspiration strikes. --Ghirlandajo 09:15, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Intelligentsia

All the etymologic dictionaries I was able to consult cite it as a Russian word. Ir entered English first in a negative context associated with the revolutionary activities of the so-called nihilists. If borrowed from Polish, it would be inteligencja not intelligetsia, of course. --Ghirlandajo 14:29, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

You mean single "l" instead of "ll" ? I'm not sure if the word did not have double "l" in Polish in 19th century. Do you pronounce the "лл" in Russian now ?

I think you may be right about the way it was intoduced to English (with the nihilists). Some evidence on how and when this happened would be helpful, though. --Wojsyl 20:15, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, we do pronounce it with double ll. --Ghirlandajo 07:33, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Russian architecture

Yikes...this is getting crazy. The only thing I could do was delete Russian architecture and move Architecture of Rus back to that title, since ARchitecture of Rus had all the original history. I apologize if anything was lost by deleting the second Russian architecture article. Adam Bishop 15:34, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Soviet sportspeople

Thanks for your kind message. I didn't announce, because I didn't know :) But should expanded stubs be added there or just new articles? BTW, after I knew about Vasily Alexeev's achievements I thought I should add inf. about him before I contributed into the article about Leonid Zhabotinsky. Cmapm 23:03, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Ivangorod fortress disagreement needs resolved globally

I looked at recent discussion at Ivangorod fortress. I think you are right that trying to repeat countries' histories that needs paragraphs and paragraphs of writing in short articles is unproductive and can only produce confusing texts unlike links to relevant pages.

I raised this issue some time ago at here. There are several Ukrainian towns (see for instance Drohobych, Kamianets-Podilskyi), whose articles try to retell the complex history of Ukraine in 10 words. Because it is impossible, the fights occasionally erupt about every word (like annexed/captured/occupied when the story is more complex). I think we should avoid doing this altogether, when possible. --Irpen 22:30, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

1918 Yaroslavl Uprising

As a native of Yaroslavl would you be intrested in writing an article about 1918 Yaroslavl Uprising (either as a section in Yaroslavl article or as an independent one)? Here is an article in Russian about the event: http://www.antibr.ru/studies/ao_jarosl_k.html Fisenko 16:55, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Of course I would, but I don't think that I'm up for the job just now. I'm not an expert in 20th-century politics, you know. Hopefully, when I complete writing new articles from my to-do list, I'll be able to start Yaroslavl Portal or at least to provide a decent account of my native city. I'm thinking about 50 articles connected with Yaroslavl. But it would take me months to do all that. --Ghirlandajo 17:07, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Boris Godunov

Dobryy vecher, tovarishch. The word "abominable" was one that I particularly wanted removed because it is irrelevant to the context of the sentence. The sentence is making the point that Boris strengthened his position at court by his marriage to not just some unknown woman but the daughter of Ivan's favorite. The fact that he was Ivan's favourite was the point of the marriage. Whatever personal attributes, good or bad, Malyuta Skuratov may have had, have no place in this sentence. If readers want to find out more about him, they can click on the link. Soglasno? JackofOz 11:42, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I just hate seeing the EB1911 articles butchered like this, as if they were written by illiterates. Every racy word is being removed. I don't object to this particular edit, however, now that you condescended to give the rationale for it. --Ghirlandajo 11:53, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I have a different view of the EB1911 articles. In the main they're fine, but they do contain some wording that is now quite out-moded and not nearly as concise as they could be. They do have some fascinating historical facts that don't seem to appear anywhere else, but the way they're presented does not always gell with current styles of writing. Nothing should be regarded as sacrosanct on Misplaced Pages, otherwise the point of this wonderful collaborative project would be lost. Cheers JackofOz 12:23, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Nesterov

Hello! According to the Nesterov article, the town was renamed that from Stallupönen after Sergey Nesterov, a World War II pilot. However, the German wiki says that the town was renamed after Pyotr Nesterov, a World War I pilot. I have been trying to find out which is true, but found nothing on yahoo about a WWII pilot Sergey Nesterov. Unfortunately, I do not speak Russian and am therefore limited in my searching abilities. At your leisure, could you investigate and see which is the correct source? Olessi 03:56, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for investigating that for me. Olessi 05:39, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Daugavgriva

Tnx. Replied. I am confused with those names... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:54, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Nice job - tnx. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 13:14, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Teutonic fortress in Lithuania

Supposedly the most magnificent of all Teutonic castles was Neu Marienwereder, somewhere in today's Lithuania. Are you familiar with it? Do you have any sources on it? If so, please let me know where it was located and what is the modern name of the location. Thanks, Space Cadet 16:42, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I believe this is modern Kwidzyn --Ghirlandajo 09:16, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Kwidzyń is Marienwerder, without the "Neu". Please help, if you can. "Byezumniy Kasmonavt" aka Space Cadet 15:35, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

How can I help you if New Marienwerder yields zero hits in both Google and Yandex. I'm neither a German nor a Pole or Swede to be particularly interested in the Teutonic forts. There are Russian websites on Teutonic castles, and they mention Marienwerder as their strongest fortress. Therefore I believe that your source implies Marienwerder. Perhaps there were old and new castles there, and Neu Marienwerder may stand for the new one. Just a guess. --Ghirlandajo 19:51, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I found nothing in a search for Neumarienwerder either. Space Cadet, what context was "Neu Marienwerder" used? What source was it listed in? That could help a little toward finding what it means. Olessi 20:18, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

==Tale of Igor's Campaign==

I'm writing to you because I've noticed you on Tale of Igor's Campaign article. I'd like to make a translation of Tale of Igor's Campaign on Wikibooks. What do you think? Would you join me in translating it, or maybe know someone who would? Nikola 20:56, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, it's OK if you don't have the time, and thanks for the pointers. That we are not native English speakers wouldn't be a problem - this is a wiki, so i'd later invite native English speakers to correct the translation! :) I have a Serbian translation with comments so obscure passages won't be a problem for me. Nikola 20:04, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Mstislav of Chernigov

Thanks for expanding the Chernihiv article. A question about Mstislav. I thought that a different one is more commonly called "the Bold". You probably have more info but these are links that should be enough for a stub Mstislav of Chernigov , , . I could write it too. I am sure one character will move it to Mstislav of Chernihiv or even to Mstyslav of Chernihiv in no time but that's a separate issue to deal with. --Irpen 00:44, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Let's stop the edit war

(Coppied from User talk:Irpen#Mediation process, maybe?) Hi Irpen, please see my message Edit wars on the Talk:Oleg of Chernihiv page.

Copied my reply from there: Nonetheless it doesn't stop you guys from revertwarring, and you all but stopped commenting on the WNC/GN page. This is unacceptable, especially from the experienced editors who should well know better then disrupt Wiki. I'd like to propose a solution till a consensus is worked on WNC/GN: let one party have its way with names from A to M, and another with N to Z. Otherwise I will consult several admins and propose that we PUT ALL AFFECTED PAGES INTO PROTECTION until you reach an agreement.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:10, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Copied a part of my reply from there: the A to M and N to Z idea is certainly unacceptable as a WP rule. Still, it's quite reasonable as a temporal solution to stop the edit war. From this point, I stop correcting/reverting the names that start with the letters from the second part of the alphabet (i.e from N to Z). This is also a good occasion to see whether the opposite party is able to accept any compromise in principle, or the edit waring is the primary goal of Irpen and alike.--AndriyK 09:59, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I didn't start the war to stop it. If you don't revert an article, there will no more edit warring. It is as simple as that. Anyway, as I fully trust user:Irpen, I'm prepared to accept any compromise approved by him. --Ghirlandajo 11:53, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

re Roger de La Fresnaye

Thanks for your message Ghirlandajo. I will certainly check out the links you suggest, looking forward to discovering new talent. Do you have any recommendations for the Russian Futurists? Best wishes. --Cactus.man ✍ 13:24, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the Futurist suggestions. I will check them out once the new image servers are responding properly. Lets hope page loading times improve dramatically !! --Cactus.man ✍ 09:56, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Battle of the Sit River

Wow, I really fouled that one up. Thanks for catching it. I'll keep you informed. Roy Al Blue 13:30, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

By the way, why did you destroy the battlebox when you made the edit on Sit River? Could you instead have fixed it so it would give the correct information? Roy Al Blue 13:38, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Oh, that's not good, because I just added a new version of the Sit River battlebox with your new information. Sorry about that, you can revert it if you wish. Roy Al Blue 13:50, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Dmitry Yegorov

I noticed you moved Dimitri Egorov to Dmitry Yegorov. I debated with myself for a while as to how exactly I should name the article, given that there are alternate spellings. Actually I was only considering the difference between Dimitri and Dmitri, but clearly his family name can be spelled differently too. In the end, I chose Dimitri Egorov because that's the spelling given on The Mathematics Genealogy Project. Since you're living in Russia, I obviously bow to your knowledge on this subject, but I'm wondering if there is a standard way of spelling Russian names such as this? Forgive my Canadian ignorance on the subject - I'm hoping to maybe add some more stubs of Russian mathematicians in the future, and it would be great if I knew how to do it properly to begin with. Cheers! --PeruvianLlama 20:24, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I actually had the same question. The spelling Egorov seems to be much more common. I think I understand where you're coming from: the surname seems to be written Егоров in the Cyrillic alphabet, and the Cyrillic Е at the start is typically transliterated with "Ye". However, I think the fact that Egorov is the common spelling (if that's true) takes priority. What do you think about this? -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 22:35, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

You may check my previous answer on Peruvianllama's talk page. Further discussion moved to Portal:Russia/Russia-related Misplaced Pages notice board. Let's see what the others will say. --Ghirlandajo 08:38, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

As you suggested

I've created a page for Nadezhda Durova. Thank you for nudging me. Durova 10:09, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

• Good news. The Nadezhda Durova page made the "Did you Know" section on Misplaced Pages's main page. You've been a great help. Durova 17:15, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

RfAr

An arbitration request against User:AndriyK has been filed. If you intend to participate/co-sign, please add your name to the "Involved parties" section and write a statement.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 17:58, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

ArbCom accepted

This is the generic message left at several editors' talk pages in relation to the ArbCom case Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration#Community_vs._User:AndriyK. Since the fourth ArbCom member has recently voted to accept the case, the case is now considered accepted by the ArbCom as per Arbitration Policy. Please make sure your statement for the ArbCom is on the page if you are willing to write one (OTOH, being named as a party does not require you to make a statement, it just gives you a right to write one) and please make sure your statement is proofread if you wrote it earlier. Please, also, make sure your statement is in the appropriate place of the ArbCom page and not interjecting with others' statements. You are welcome to read up on the Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_policy and the associate pages.

--Irpen 04:00, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

chernihiv

I would suggest you not to go into revert wars when the city is referred to in a contemporary (or marginally historical) context. Like, tumulus is IMO OK with chernihiv. But of course in historical compound names it should be disallowed. mikka (t) 23:10, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Arkhangelsk

<...> there is no need deleting images before we establish the fact. When I uploaded the image of 500-rouble banknote, I believed that it was the fortified merchant court (гостиный двор) that was represented there. <...> But after you comment I see that it is in all probability Solovetsky Monastery. Can you find a link proving that it is really Solovki and not Arkhangelsk as stated on the banknote? If this is really the case, then we may download a reverse of the banknote, where Arkhangelsk's statue of Peter I is represented. --Ghirlandajo 19:42, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Dear Ghirlandajo, I admit it was a knee-jerk reaction -- I guess I should have contacted you to point out the mistake. And of course, I would have never done that if I could just change the caption -- but the image of Solovki has very little to do with Arkhangelsk.

I apologize. I'm new on the Misplaced Pages, have only done a few minor edits to the Arkhangelsk article so far and have never participated in any discussions before (I only hope I'm writing in the right place and this message will reach you).

I realize that the mere fact that I live in Arkhangelsk, only about 50 meters from the Gostiny Dvor, and have been to Solovetskie Islands many times may not mean much, so here are some links where you can read the descriptions of the images on the 500-Ruble note:

"На пятисотке изображены главные символы нашего города <...>: памятник Петру I <...>. Легендарная шхуна "Запад", у которой нет мачт. Морской-речной вокзал <...> Но главное - на другой стороне купюры. Там изображены Соловки <...>" http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:IVHG2snPSmYJ:www.pravdasevera.ru/2002/07/06/25.shtml+%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BF%D1%8E%D1%80%D1%8B+OR+%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BF%D1%8E%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%85+%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B8&hl=en&client=opera

"Самым поражающим <...> из всех пост советских памятников Гулагу является купюра достоинством 500 рублей <...> На ней изображен монастырь Соловки, исторический комплекс на острове в Белом море" http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/etkind2/Russian

МОСКВА. 17.03.1997. ИТАР-ТАСС.

"Центральный банк сегодня выпускает в обращение новую банкноту достоинством в 500 тысяч рублей. <...> На купонных полях банкноты имеются локальные водяные знаки: на широком купоне - изображение головы памятника Петру... Кроме того, имеется изображение памятника Петру в г. Архангельске. В центре оборотной стороны банкноты изображен вид на Соловецкий монастырь, крепостная стена и здания которого выполнены красно-коричневым цветом, а вода перед монастырем - синефиолетовым цветом." http://www.solovki.ca/vsiako-razno/money.htm

Again, my apologies, and I do hope this clears up the misunderstanding. --Kalaus 22:12, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Featured pictures

Although you may not believe me, I don't have any sinister plan to promote only Polish culture or views. When I find a nice picture, I add it to my 'to FAP' list, and since I spend most of my times editing Poland-related articles I obviously find mostly Poland-related pics. Just a minute ago, I found this very beautiful picture Image:Detinets.jpg of Saint Sophia Cathedral in Novgorod, but it is fair use and fair use images are not appropriate candidates for inclusion in the featured pictures gallery. Perhaps you could verify this status and try to negotiate an open licence or get a similar open source picture of this beautiful monument, and then FAP it? I would definetly support this or any other nice Russia-related pictures you would FAP.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 02:44, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Piotrus, for your kind offer. I'll think what I can do with this particular picture. Your comment even induced me to add to my page a gallery listing a fraction of images I uploaded to this project. So far, two of my pictures - both by Prokudin-Gorskii - have been promoted to featured. Unfortunately, other candidates - such as Image:Stpeteskyline.jpg - have been moved by me or other to Wikimedia Commons, so they are not illegible as well.

By the way, I confess to wade through Polish segment of this project quite rarely, but today, while adding {unreferenced} tags to Krakow and Warsaw I noticed two nice pictures - Image:Warszawa2.jpg and Image:Katedra na wawelu.jpg - which are not tagged at all. Should we list them for deletion? What do you think? --Ghirlandajo 17:58, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Old Russian names

Thanks for the online Vasmer tip! It's a great find. --Iceager 08:37, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

?

What provocation are you talking about ? The historical section wasn't ever much disputed in antipolonism. I didn't enter the modern history which was the point of disputes. Also to whom you addres Russian text ? I only know German, Polish and English. --Molobo 15:17, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Re:{{unreferenced}}

Yes, you can add it to both Kraków and Warsaw, none of them have proper references. My goal is to make people aware of the Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Fact and Reference Check, and the Misplaced Pages:Cite sources policy. One of the most common accusations to Misplaced Pages in general is the lack of sources and references, and we need to fix that. Please provide referencse for those articles instead of removing the tag. Besides, the tag is used according to the existing policies.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:53, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Regarding unreferenced - note in my contributions that I have made a slight error - this template should be used AT THE BOTTOM of the pages, in place of the missing 'Reference' section. If you plan on adding it to other articles (which I strongly encourage) don't repeat my mistake (you may also want to add the following WikiProject ad: ].

Regarding the pictures: standard procedure is listing them as {{nosource}}, notifying the uploader and adding a note on the talk pages of the article's using image (and on releated regional noticeboards, if you have the time).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:21, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the link, although it seems that only the involved parties can put their statements there. However, judging from the support of arbitrators and from the fact that your opponent has already managed to disregard the rules of the arbitration by commenting on statements of others rather than writing a statement by himself, I’m sure that you’ll be successful in your case. Good luck--SylwiaS 12:30, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Belarussian History

Have a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/History_of_Belarus#Russian_occupation, and tell me do you see this as History of Belarus or more like the history of Poland and the Polish Partitions, lets modify it I have an excellent source on 19th century history in Belarus, it is slightly religiously orientiated but good nevertheless. http://www.pravoslavie.ru/arhiv/050513111111 Kuban kazak 23:20, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Early XXth century liberals

Thanks for the kind words! Yes, I have done Ariadna Tyrkova-Williams and Nikolai Gredeskul in the last few days, but that's just because I got carried away while merging and rewriting Constitutional Democratic party and Constitutional Democrats :) Otherwise I have spent the last few months adding missing bits and pieces on the Far Left: Adolph Joffe, Christian Rakovsky, Nikolai Krylenko, Olga Kameneva and so forth. I am also responsible for the current versions of Alexander Bogdanov, Grigory Zinoviev, Lev Kamenev, Alexei Rykov... well, you get the picture. But my greatest achievement this fall was writing an 86Kb article on Leon Trotsky without starting an edit war :)

Anyway, as my User page says, I am mostly interested in biographies and bibliographies, so that's what I do, from George H. Smith to Józef Dowbor-Muśnicki. Unfortunately, working on the latter made it rather painfully clear that my Polish is pretty much unusable at this point and I had to abandon my grand plan to write a history of "Polish Military People". Oh well, at least my Russian is still good enough to do Russian history articles. I have an unhealthy amount of East European history data squirreled away in my brain and, with luck, I will upload a big chunk of it into the Misplaced Pages before I move on to the next plane of existence :) Ahasuerus 01:12, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Re: Struve. I have added a couple of paragraphs about 1898-1905, but there is much, much more to be said on the subject :) Ahasuerus 17:05, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Again, thanks for the kind words, but that version would have been noticeable better if I hadn't stopped in the middle of an edit :) Anyway, it's been cleaned up and expanded some, but still needs a great deal of TLC. Ahasuerus 02:41, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

No need to mince words or hold back, come out and say what you really think of my contributions! :) Seriously, though, thanks, but it's easy to resist "unrestrained nationalism" when you don't have a stake in the fight. Well, unless one succumbs to vicarious nationalism, I suppose.

On a more elevated plane, it's mildly depressing to see that the state of, say, Russo-Polish relations hasn't changed much since ca. 1866, but I guess the victim mentality of so many Central and Eastern European nations is not something that can be changed quickly given their history of mutual clobbering and the spread of nationalist ideology eastward from ca. 1790 on. <insert my obligatory ramblings on the Death of God, marginality, etc here> Ahasuerus 22:43, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Locations

Why are you so sceptic concerning providing coordinates for places? I agree, that those numbers may seem inappropriate in the article, but the most important is that they make up the link. That link enables you to look up the place on the map in just two clicks (you click on that link and then you click "Find this location on MapQuest". Cmapm 13:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration accepted

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/AndriyK has been accepted. Please place evidence on Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/AndriyK/Evidence. Proposals and comments may be placed on Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/AndriyK/Proposed decision. Fred Bauder 02:26, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

My alleged nationalism

I'm afraid you're mistaking Rus' for Russia. They are different things, that's all. --Wojsyl 13:41, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Really? Rus' is medieval state. All Russians named own country "Rus" until 17 centuries. Muscovy was named by Russians as Rus too. Russia is the name of Russian State from the 18th century only. Modern Russia is the successor of medieval Rus' (as well as Ukraine). Modern Russian language and Russian culture is successors of the language and culture of medieval Russia. The Tsar dynasty of Russia began in medieval Rus (Rurik of Novgorod). The medieval epos of Rus (bylinas of the Kiev cycle) was kept only in northern territories of Russia. The most part of territory of medieval Rus is territory of modern Russia. Novgorod, Vladimir, Ryazan, Suzdal, Tver were the big cities of medieval Rus and cities of modern Russia also. What a problem? Are you a nationalist from a neighbouring country? --Ben-Velvel 14:07, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Actually, they are different, in a sense that Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth is different from modern Poland. There are no other countries to claim 11th-century Polish heritage only because Poland and Germany conspired to stifle other Lechitic ethnic groups - Pomeranian, Kashubian - long ago, thus precluding them from evolution into separate states. But, just like Poland, Russia has been known as Russia in English and as Russie in French continously since the 11th century, and the likes of Wojsyl have to live with it. --Ghirlandajo 14:41, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

http://www.taraskuzio.net/academic/history.pdf

Historiography and National Identity among the Eastern Slavs: Towards a New Framework1 TARAS KUZIO, York University, Toronto, Canada The bulk of Ukrainian territories did not come under Russian jurisdiction until the late eighteenth century when Tsarina Catherine abolished the autonomous Ukrainian Hetmanate. After the disintegration of the Kyiv Rus’ state in 1240 the majority of Ukrainian territories were either independent in the Galician-Volhynian principality or under Mongol rule. They then passed under Lithuanian, Polish-Lithuanian and then Cossack rule. The 1654 Treaty of Periaslav between Ukraine and Muscovy was concluded after the Poles refused to consider the Ukrainian Cossack proposal to transform the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth into a Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian (i.e. Ukrainian/Cossack) commonwealth. Ukrainian Cossack Hetman Khmel’nyts’kyi signed the treaty on condition that Ukrainian autonomy be recognised by the Muscovite Tsar. This Ukrainian interpretation of a confederal relationship of two equals has continually clashed with the Russian, Soviet and Western view of Ukraine’s submission and/or re-union with Russia. Russian links to Kyivan Rus’ and Ukrainian lands were therefore broken for four centuries. When the Treaty of Periaslav was discussed in 1654 both sides used interpreters and Ukrainian (Ruthenian) Cosacks had a clear perception of Muscovites (as well as Poles and Tatars) as foreign ‘Others’. The Tsarist empire only began to integrate the autonomous Ukrainian Hetmanate over a century later and to russify its population only after the 1860s. Western Ukraine continued to remain under Polish, Austrian, Austrian-Hungarian and then again Polish rule until 1939. Similarly, from the disintegration of Kyivan Rus’ until the late eighteenth century Belarusian territories lay outside Russian control. It was only with the partitions of Poland in the 1770s and 1790s that they were annexed by the Tsarist empire. These historical facts throw into doubt the eighteenth–nineteenth century imperialist framework adopted by Russian and Western historians that sought to portray Russian imperial rule over Ukraine and Belarus as a long continuous process of national development from Kyivan Rus’ to the present. They have therefore been conveniently ignored by both Russian and Western historians. Historical objectivity would Ž nd that both Ukraine and Belarus spent more time outside Russian in uence and control within the conŽ nes of Ž ve European states (Poland, Lithuania, Austria, Hungary and Romania).--Molobo 13:29, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Iuga of Moldavia

Hi, Ghirlandajo, and thanks for the edits. There is something, though: are you sure that Iuga is the same as Yury, Koriat's son? I had checked out the references, and couldn't tell for sure. Romanian sources cite him as "of unknown lineage". And did Koriat rule in Podolia? - excuse my ignorance on the subject. (In case you're wondering, it was me who started the article, but I mist've done something wrong wuth the edits in the beginning, so Wiki didn't register my signature: user "whatever number" is still Dahn.) Dahn 22:56, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I bow to your expertise - I never meant to suggest that you were not right, I just did not know the circumstances (the reason I quoted the Romanian prosopography issue was that I as well did not know wether it had bothered getting the details of it, not to set it against you: I was more willing to consider that it has been unprofessional, and I'm glad that you have the knowledge of what they do not - in fact, you might have cleared an important subject for each and all comments). My precise observation was that I was aware he was a certain Koriat's son, just not sure if it was the same - again, you have better info, that I respect. I patched the article mainly by translating the Romanian page (which is very shaky and succint, as most are on the Romanian wiki - not to mention that they do not stick by any rule of grammar), and wanted to check out the ends of the issue. All you get from sources on this side is "a Ruthenian prince", and it's not even established if he was ruling something in particular, or just of royal lineage. Also, the question I had about Koriat's rule in Podolia are linked to the fact that wiki mentions him (just) as a ruler of Black Ruthenia, which is described as part of Belarus. You might want to have a look at that, perhaps it needs a bit of tuning up or some additions. Again, many thanks and sorry I misunderstood (and took up so much space on your page). PS: In my defence, I have to add that anything north of Bukovina is, sadly, "hic sunt dragones" to all Romanian historiography, late and new. Dahn 21:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Polish Empire

What Polish Empire ? What are you taling about ? --Molobo 13:30, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Flags

Why did you revert my edits in List of Russian flags and Flag of Russia? Would you state that the white-blue-red tricolour has been used without interruption since 1635?--Panairjdde 17:18, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

• Where did you find 1635, in the first place? I sufficiently explained my edits in the summaries. --Ghirlandajo 17:22, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

1. About Flag of Russia. I added the Romanov flag since there were already two historical flags (the Soviet one and the 1914-1917), you removed the 1914-1917 flag, commenting "there is a List of Russian flags for such images". First, why did you remove the 1914 flag and left the Romanov one? Second, the list of Russian flags reports all the flags, even the jack of the navy, while in the Flag of Russia article should go the history of "the" Russian flag.

   Why, do you want to make Flag of Russia and List of Russian flags identical? IMHO we have List of Russian flags specifically to list minor modifications of the Russian tricolour. The Romanov jack was in use for three decades, not just for three years, and it radically differed from the classic pan-Slavic colours. --Ghirlandajo 18:35, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

   The list of Russian flags include the navy jack, the army flag, the navy ensign, and the presidential flag. None of these has a proper place in the "Flag of Russia" article. That means that "Flag of Russia" will never contain all the the flags of the "List of Russian flags". Notice also, that I added the Romanov flag, and that the 1914-197 flag was already there, thus forming an initial historical part about the Russian flag. If you think that the Romanov flag has a place in "Flag of Russia", you should provide a really good excuse to keep the other flags out.--Panairjdde 09:55, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

   Sorry, check Image:Romanovflag.gif to see who added what. --Ghirlandajo 10:02, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

2. About List of Russian flags. I corrected the statement (already in the page) that the white-blue-red tricolour is uninterruptedly used since 1695 (not 1635), you reverted my addition writing "rv". So I ask you, how could you state that the white-blue-red tricolour has been officially used since 1695? :--Panairjdde 18:22, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

   Check your edit: where the period between 1695 and 1858 disappeared? Was there no flag of Russia before 1858? Please watch your own sloppy edits before complaining. --Ghirlandajo 18:35, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

   I just want to make you notice that the article in its current form (that you edited), claims that the Date for the white-blue-red tricolour is "1695 -". So my question is, does this means that in the period 1917-1991, this flag was an official flag of Russia? As regards my sloppiness, it would look bad, if not in presence of your arrogance.--Panairjdde 09:55, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Link

I added then removed the link to Tyutchev-I think it might be a simple download of a copyright book. Please reconsider adding this link. --Molobo 17:28, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

'Ridiculous ?'

Before, I wrote to you, I looked over your work in Misplaced Pages. This was to get a idea about what kind of a person you are. And I must say your contributions, works, and their scope are impressive, to say the least. So I must confess that I was a little dismayed when you reverted my additions to the article on Catherine I of Russia, as "ridiculous," without bothering to explain the reversions on the talk page. I am very familiar with Eastern European History, with all of its current, and past, partisan slants and biases. Since English is my native language, and I have the ability to correct the many errors of grammar, syntax, spelling and such, that occur in many articles that originate or are edited by some people whose "Mother tongue" is not English, I spend a lot of my time correcting these kinds of errors. I do quite a bit with articles that are written by "native English speakers too". This is to keep Misplaced Pages more scholarly and professional. Some of my academic friends who are anti-Misplaced Pages love to point out these kinds of errors, and make lame jokes about them. So when I was looking over the Catherine article, and saw that her earlier name was spelled MARFA (sic), I decided to spell it correctly as Marta or Martha, and since she was of Lithuanian heritage, I asked a Lithuanian friend of mine, to tell me how they would spell and pronounce her name, hence Marta Skavronskaite. I wasn't feeling particularly "ridiculous" that day, and saw your reversions by accident, since I didn't bother to put it on my watchlist. Not that immportant I thought. Inconsistency does bother me however, and I recently cleaned up a short article that used VILNA, WILNO, WILNA, and VILNIUS, all in same article. I change MOSKAU, RZYM, PARIGI, KÖNIGSBERG, into English, and do so with proper names too. So, my friend, I did not change 'YEKATERINA ALEXEYEVNA', from its proper Russian to something "ridiculous", nor would I. Please read the Wikepedia article on Mikhail Muravyov, for a different perspective on the history of the Russification of other people. I hope you are not a partisan of Zhirinovsky. Regards. p.s. It's Kaliningrad you know, St. Petersburg, and Volgograd, too. Königsberg, Petrograd, and Stalingrad out of context, only serve to confuse and sometimes inflame people. (unsigned by anon_

Someone laborously replaced by this Lithuanian name in many language versions for Catherine I of Russia I guess it is our good friend. mikka (t) 08:47, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Image:Kutuzov spb.jpg

Please provide a source for this image or it will be deleted after 7 days. Thanks! -SCEhardT 04:51, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Russian architecture

I thought you'd like to know, the page was unprotected (without an ensuing revert spree). I dawdled a bit much, but I've now submitted a revision to the page for everyone's consideration. Please see my comments at talk:Russian architecture. Regards, Michael Z. 2005-12-1 05:49 Z

History of Belarus

Ghirlandajo, you have not explained why you have reverted my edits of History of Belarus, therefore I have reverted them back. Please do not start revert war and if you don't like particular edit explain what do you find wrong with it. And please o not start calling me "imperialist", "nationalist" or other names but discuss the merit. Thanks. --Wojsyl 13:25, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Wojsyl, calling me "stupid he-goat" and "vodka pisser" wouldn't help to further your cause. Please use the talk page instead of slandering me on Administrator's noticeboard. --Ghirlandajo 17:31, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't know too many POV-pushing admins and I did not enter in contact with any of them lately, so I have neither intention nor wish to warn anyone. If you have problem with any of the admins you might take it to Administrators' noticeboard. Halibutt 14:26, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Enough wasting time. Your continuous reverts are spoiling the work of others who try to work on the article. You've been asked by a number of other editors to stop it. I have now reported you for 3RR violation here. --Wojsyl 16:38, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I know you may feel "bullied" but this is not because of some evil Lithuanian-Polish-Ukrainian conspiracy against you. It is your uncooperative editing behaviour and you aggresive style of discussion that isolates you from other editors. Harmonious editing is possible and I very much hope that you'll understand it one day, too. --Wojsyl 17:16, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

After having made 16,000 quite harmonious edits, I think it funny that you preach me how to edit, as you probably never contribited a single new article. If you stop flooding the article with such russophobic statements as "the tsarist administration attempted to limit the participation of Belarusian gentry in governing the country, as well as to discriminate their culture. At the same time, Russia used every opportunity to enlarge the Russian possession of land in Belarus." - there will be harmonious editing, as there used to be before your and Molobo's assault on the article. I many times asked you to discuss your grievances on the talk page, but blind revert wars seem to be the only strategy you know. I still await your apologies for today's disruptive behaviour, though. --Ghirlandajo 17:28, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

As to the sentence that you quote, it's based on a scholarly work by a contemporary Minsk historian and there was a clear reference in the article for this. Still you have chosen to remove this part without any explanation. Why ? --Wojsyl 18:01, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

As to your huge number of edits, Nobody's denying this and I always have the admiration for the active editors. What you might want to learn, though, could be some respect towards the others and their work. As to discussing edits, I'm always willing to do it but as I've noticed other editors already managed to incline you into some discussion of your edits, I did not need to do it this time. What I referred to was your manner of discarding others' edits and pushing yours in spite of obvious lack of consensus. What I would suggest to you (and Molobo) would be to discuss edits first. Reverting work of other people with offensive edit summaries will for sure not bring you towards any harmony in editing. Try to think about it. --Wojsyl 17:57, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Wojsyl, stop it. I don't want to talk with Molobo, who is well known to all Misplaced Pages as a petty troll. I asked *you* to explain your nationalist slurs, but you preferred to ignore my admonitions and continue revert warring. When Halibutt ran out of arguments against me on the talk page, you and Molobo assaulted the article and started reverting my edits. This is called foul play, guys. --Ghirlandajo 18:07, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Come on. Halibutt asked you a number of questions of the talk page and is still waiting for your answers. I also would be interested to see your explanations there instead of the personal remarks. --Wojsyl 18:19, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I have to stop wasting my precious time on talking with you. It is quite pointless. I don't know why you stubbornly refuse to discuss your nationalist edits on the article's talk page, where other editors may want to comment, but prefer my own talk page or administrators' noticeboard. --Ghirlandajo 18:23, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Indeed. Better go to the article's talk page and try to address the questions about your edits that are waiting unanswered, instead. Thanks. --Wojsyl 18:35, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I am afraid using historic references made under Tsarists and communist regime that served propaganda makes certain edits very unbalanced and POV. Likewise you seem to posses a "Great Russian" view of things, which was pointed to you even by other Russian users. --Molobo 17:35, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, Molobo, if I seem to posses a certain view of things, you are a fierce and unrepented Polish nationalist who has been many times blocked for extreme POV-pushing. So please don't pretend to preach me. Your endless revert wars on Russophobia and Anti-Polonism are too disgusting to recall. --Ghirlandajo 17:39, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

are too disgusting to recall Please use civil language in the future. If you have any problems with my edits I can only ask you to state them in civil manner. --Molobo 17:47, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

It figurest that the FA level article on Polish-Soviet War (oh, excuse me, you prefer the Soviet-Polish War, right?) would not be up to your standards, and that you prefer to use the term Katyn Incident to Katyń Massacre. Well, I am afraid I have to take Halibutt's side here - but then I am sure you are not suprised, as long ago you have discovered our plan to take over Wiki and turn it into a Polish propaganda tube. Seriously, I am afraid that if you will keep on going against community consensus, cannot talk without making personal attacks and seeing your own bias, then and keep pushing your POV, you will face the same consequences that all POV pushers have.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:43, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Co-operation!

Ghirla, what's wrong with you ? First you say that you don't have the time to discuss on your talk page, then we agree to discuss the merit on the article's talk page, but intead of doing this, you're hard trying to antagonize Polish and Russian editors basing on ethnicity by adding a provocative message to Portal:Russia/New_article_announcements. Is this your way of cooperative editing ? Seriously: is there anything I could do so that we could work positively and not towards a conflict ? Feel free to email me if you prefer this way of communication. Your friendly Polish neighbour. --Wojsyl 20:34, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Check your e-mail and revise your slur on the noticeboard. You seem to forget that it was your pal Molobo who started revert warring and recruited a bunch of Polish revert warriors by posting a provocative announcement on Polish noticeboard.--Ghirlandajo 22:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Huh ? Check your email :-) I've responded to your mail over an hour ago and assumed you went to sleep .... --Wojsyl 22:59, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I hoped we're over with reverts and will discuss such things first, but I see you're doing it again :-( --Wojsyl 20:12, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

You should address your concerns to Piotr and to the inveterate revert warrior Cadet, who reverts without even caring to provide a summary of his edits. I didn't edit the page for over a day, until there appeared your friend Piotrus, who attemped to recruit more revert warriors on several notice boards and resumed reverting his opponent's edits under pretext of vandalism. I don't know who and how made him an admin, but he was obviously required to scrutinize Misplaced Pages:Vandalism#What vandalism is not before being promoted. --Ghirlandajo 20:19, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Ghirla, I assumed your good faith, but this has gone for long enough. I'm not going to stand your offences any more. Not any more. If you want to accuse any more people of bad faith - feel free to do so, but after seing your latest accusations and after seing your latest edits I doubt cooperation with someone who cannot call me the proper way is the way to go... Halibutt 01:12, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, Ghirlandajo, but this has gone far enough, even my patience has its limits. The page in question is not a black book and you know it, it's just the place where I gathered all the links I'm planning to post on the RfC page (as you can see by the title, for instance) I'm starting later this day. You were brave enough to continue with your endless accusations, aggravating disputes and offensive language, so I hope you will be brave enough to stand up to the RfC.

Or perhaps there is a way to avoid it I'm not able to see? Perhaps there is a way to make you change your ways and start to respect your opponents (me included)? It's not the last warning, it's the last attempt to reach some solution on a personal basis. I really like lots of your contributions and I really believe that most of your contributions are valuable. However, the way you treat other users - me in particular - is the worst I could think of and I really don't know what could I do more to make you at least apologize for what you said.

And no, I did not call you names and your accusations are absurd. I shall not apologize for something I did not say and I don't believe I should. If you see no other option and believe that starting RfC on me just because I'm starting one on you is ok, then go ahead, I'm not afraid. I'm going to sleep now and will start the RfC as soon as I get up, unless there is some other option you propose. Piotrus contacted me about the possibility to start the informal mediation, though I'm not sure if such an option would do suffice. Halibutt 06:07, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

No, Ghirlandajo, we were not both bad tempered. You were. Accusing me of insults when there were none will not change that. And your comment about not wishing to offend others seems quite dubious, especially after you used the offensive tone and language repeatedly, even after such behaviour was pointed out by others. If you can't change yourself and start to respect other editors then perhaps you could reconsider your membership in this wikipedia, which is community-oriented and community-driven. As I said 100 times, I highly appreciate many of your contributions. However, the way you treat others and your complete disregard for the community or rules of civilized dispute made me think of you not very highly.

So far I've seen enough of your disruptive and offensive behaviour and I'm not sure it is really going to change, but perhaps I'm wrong. In my honest oppinion this has went too far now and I'm beyond the point of forgetting everything right now. Note that I see no problem with getting over our past differences as you put it, as I don't think there were any past differences between us. What I have a problem with is not differences or disagreements, but your behaviour, unwillingness to work towards a compromise, offensive tone and language, lack of respect for the others and so on. However, I consider your comment on my talk page a step in a good direction. Whatever be the reason behind it, it shows at least some will of improvement. Because of that I'm not going to start the RfC right now and will wait for what happens next. You can call it some sort of personal probation if you please. If your behaviour is really likely to change I'm going to forget the whole issue. Does this seem fair to you? Halibutt 14:47, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

RfA thanks

I would like to thank you for your support of my recent successful RfA. If you have any further comments or feedback for me, my door's open - don't hesistate to drop a note on my talk page. Happy editing! Enochlau 11:00, 3 December 2005 (UTC)