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Marquis de Sade

I have removed the following paragraph from the article and placed it on the talk page:

The Marquis de Sade's writings on sex and similar subjects are still considered to be perverse and shocking, even after over a century and a half. He surpassed the Kama Sutra, which he makes look like a child's Dick-in-Jane book. His name is also the root of the word 'sadism', which features throughout his works. He was imprisoned for most of his adult life because he was one of the few philosophers who practiced everything he preached...Remember, when he was alive, sodomy was an offence punishable by death.

Mainly I think this does not belong in the article because sexology is the scientific, not literary, study of sex. If someone wants to draw a connection and put the information back in, I'm fine with that, but even then the POV needs to be removed. --Allen 03:30, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, -ology usually refers to the study. Does de Sade do any science, or are his grimoires more a collection of personal fetishes? Tyciol 19:24, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Lockdown

This needs to be locked down. 68.209.95.147

Agreed, seems like some April Fools vandalism. Joy. Tyciol 19:24, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Someone please

Someone please take out the "Fag~~" Thing

Notable Sexologists

I am very surprised that Sue Johanson is not listed here. She is probably the most well known practising sexologist today. SJM 1 March 2007

• I don't know if she is so much a sexologist as she is a pop culture sex educator. Jvbishop 13:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe she is a nurse by training. Dr. Ruth Westheimer is another well known sex educator but her doctorate is in education--Eloil 17:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Although they have both made important contributions through their clinical and educational efforts, they are not sexologists. That is, they are not researchers who have uncovered or documented information about sex. If there is interest, perhaps a page on notable sex educators might be created?
—MarionTheLibrarian (talk) 15:10, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Disclosure

I have just added to the main page two EL's to reading lists in sexology. Because I am the compiler/author of one of them, I felt it appropriate to indicate such here.— James Cantor (talk) 12:53, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

3 EL's removed due to poster's undisclosed COI

Three external links to sexscience.org have been removed. They were posted by James Cantor, who is a consulting editor of sexscience.org and did not disclose his conflict of interest before posting the links. (The above disclosure applied to one previous EL, not these three.)BitterGrey (talk) 23:18, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

First, I do not have a COI regarding those ELs. The sexological articles on WP are littered with disclosures from me indicating wherever there could be any perception of a conflict, in addition to this very talkpage (as you pointed out). Anyone bothering to read my userpage will very quickly see that I take COI issues very seriously. The the publisher of the ELs in question, the Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality, is a professional, scientific society; it is one of the oldest such societies for sexologists. I (and other members of SSSS) review manuscripts (for free) for the SSSS journal, the Journal of Sex Research; that journal is one of the most established scientific journals in its field. Still other people in SSSS have assembled resource lists for sexologists and for the public, and that information for the public are in the ELs I added here. (None of the links mentions me or my own work in the field.) There are no interests to conflict. Clearly, you continue to believe that my writing something is cause enough to opposite it.

If all you want is for me to say that I belong to SSSS or review manuscripts for their journal, I am happy to (after all, it's true, and has nothing to do with the EL's in question). Playing "gotcha" instead of working to improve mainpages, however, is tenacious.

If, however, you somehow believe that something in the ELs is objectionable, the WP thing to do is to bring the issue to WP:COI/N. You will have trouble, however, finding any editor agreeing that any of the links is anything but NPOV...well, editors other than more activsts who, like yourself, continue to attempt to use WP to replace science with those consistent with their own political tastes. Although I happen to agree with many of the goals of your off-wiki activism (at least, those that you put on your infantilism site), WP is not the battleground for it.

— James Cantor (talk) 00:22, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

"Clearly, you continue to believe that my writing something is cause enough to opposite it." This personal attack is unfounded. Were it true, I would have removed the first link. Then we would be discussing one link to the website that you are involved with, not three. In contrast, I initially left the first link in place. It was the later quantity that made me look into why you were posting so many links. An objective scientist would confirm this observation for him or her self, and then reject your conclusion and the accusation based upon it. The observables simply don't match your conclusion. Your attack is the result of faulty science. This is notable, since in a later paragraph you assert that I'm the one being unscientific. BitterGrey (talk) 01:20, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I did say that I saw no reason why, as an expert in the area, a link to one of Cantor's papers shouldn't be used (in a previous discussion about him posting an EL to his academic page), if it was relevant, as giving readers access to such material would benefit the encyclopedia (my concern was about neutrality and balance in the papers that were included as the bibliography in question). In this case, I just can't be bothered going all through these convoluted links again. Sorry. All I will say is that just because he edits this journal, given its prominence, should not rule him out from citing authors who publish in it. I would hope that both he and other involved editors here keep an eye on ensuring that the way this is done does not compromise NPOV in the article concerned (i.e., do the sources present one POV without another, how is that best balanced if it does - are there other perspectives not being addressed, etc.). Given he has declared himself re COI, I don't see that it is particularly relevant - what is relevant is whether there is empirical evidence that such a COI has compromised the neutrality of the article. From the sound of it not. The only question that leaves is what the value of such links would be to a lay reader who does not have access to these papers via an academic institution, and who isn't going to pay to read them? This is why I suggested the link to a different article on his academic site. I am assuming that like so many of these specialist papers these three are not available without payment or institutional access. I can see the concern, that as a free on-line encyclopedia we do not allow ourselves to be used to drive readers to commercial sites, but I don't believe this was the intention. It is a problem that cannot be avoided with academic papers that are not released under a creative commons or other free license arrangement - and as has been seen on another page covered in this section, that arrangement can cause its own problems when such material is abused. Mish (talk) 02:36, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Another disclosure (excessive maybe, but nonetheless...)

user:Bittergrey believes I have a relationship with three of the EL's on the mainpage, one that merits mention. The nature of the relationship is that I review manuscripts for the Journal of Sex Research, the ELs on the mainpage, and the journal and website are both published by the Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality. Neither I nor any of my work is mentioned on any of the sites. (All this is public knowledge already, but if another editor believes it should be made more explicit, I certainly have no reason not to.)
— James Cantor (talk) 00:32, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the claim that "Neither I nor any of my work is mentioned on any of the sites," it should be noted that a Googling for "James Cantor site:sexscience.org" gives 14 results. The site does mention him. Perhaps 'pages' was meant instead of "sites." BitterGrey (talk) 02:15, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I meant that anyone reading the content of the actual EL's in question will see that none so much as mentions me or any of my work, making baseless (even tenetious) accusations of COI.— James Cantor (talk) 02:50, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I had a look at the article, and noted Cantor's undoing his own revert, then decided to follow the links. These three items are publicly accessible, look quite useful, do not appear overly biased (although the amount of Bullough compared to Foucault I would question, although Foucault was not a sexologist, but critical of sexology and associated disciplines) for a list of sexology texts. Sexology is what sexology is - which is why I am not a sexologist. I have inserted the meterial, not because I have any brief for either editor, but because I can see no virtue in denying these links, which to be honest could be useful to anybody wishing to pursue the subject; my inserting them gets around objections about Cantor posting them himself (although does not answer the question raised. I think you people need to work out how you are going to work together effectively on these articles, because you ALL have so much you can (and I am sure do) contribute, and this interaction could allow for some very dynamic articles. Mish (talk) 09:59, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

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