Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 21:51, 29 August 2009

	Joseph Barbera is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Misplaced Pages community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Article milestones Date Process Result September 29, 2008 Featured article candidate Promoted

Biography: Actors and Filmmakers FA‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography FA This article has been rated as FA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers (assessed as High-importance).

Animation: American FA‑class Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Animation, a collaborative effort to build an encyclopedic guide to animation on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, help out with the open tasks, or contribute to the discussion.AnimationWikipedia:WikiProject AnimationTemplate:WikiProject AnimationAnimation FA This article has been rated as FA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the American animation work group.

BBC

Hah BBC copied the end of this article almost verbatim...

"After Hanna's death in 2001, Barbera had remained active as an executive producer for Warner Bros. Animation on television series such as What's New, Scooby-Doo? and Tom and Jerry Tales." - Misplaced Pages

"Following Hanna's death, Joseph Barbera remained active as an executive producer for Warner Brothers Animation on TV series such as What's New, Scooby-Doo? and Tom and Jerry Tales. " - BBC

(Madrone 01:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC))

News

I have never heard of him, until I found this.

But, did he produce a lot of cartoons with Hanna (whoever that other one was?) But, in the late 1950s through early 1990s, they did produce awful a lot of cartoons or comics, but at an older age.

While they started producing Scooby-Doo cartoons and others in 1970's and 1980's, they were both in their late 50's thru their late 70's. The producer is 94 years old, I cannot believe he was born in 1911, is a very long time ago! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.54.98.29 (talk • contribs) 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Lebanese descent ?

Someone has added "Lebanese descent" to both him and William Hanna. That seems quite a coincidence ! -- Beardo 13:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Naah, Barberá is a Catalonian last name. He might have been born in Little Italy, but only he could serve as a witness to his own ancestry (does anybody here have access to his autobiography?) If I'm not mistaken his ancestry is Catalonian (or Spanish, for those leaning to the right living in the Iberian peninsula...) Demf 10:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The 1920 and 1930 census have Joseph's parents born in Italy. Questors 21:17, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

He's of Lebanese descent. I myself have arabic television stations and when he died, they mentioned he was of Lebanese descent. Also, the source provided next to the line claims he's Lebanese. Lebanese people have similar last names to Southern Europeans, my mom's last name is as Italian as you can get. As for William Hanna, I don't know. Hanna is a common Lebanese name, as well, and it means John in Arabic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PassTheYouth (talk • contribs) 17:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

His autobiography only says he's Sicilian. On pages 17-18 it says his maternal grandmother was from Sciacca, province of Agrigento. On page 58 it says that his dad is Sicilian. We need better proof of the Lebanese claim. On page 128 of his autobio he calls himself Sicilian. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:49, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I think this confusion arose because Barbera is a name common in many Mediterranean countries, including Italy/Sicily and Lebanon. Some obits erroneously reported he was Lebanese, but I have to say his autobio saying both parents were Italian and spoke Italian trumps the other refs unless better info can be found. — Rlevse • Talk • 14:22, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

And his family was Catholic (p. 208 of autobio) — Rlevse • Talk • 01:05, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

This last info is irrelevant as a contradiction to Barbera's possible Lebanese descent, as the majority of the Lebanese people are Christians, especially emigrants outside the country. In fact most of them are Maronite (a branch of Catholism). Hope(N Forever) (talk) 23:13, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

You can discuss others' comments, but do not strike them out. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:16, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I just read this article after seeing a Tom and Jerry cartoon online, and remember seeing the claim to Lebanese ancestry here back in 2006 the day after Mr. Barbera died. As talked about in this discussion, this claim is erroneous. In his own autobiography My Life in Toons: From Flatbush to Bedrock in Under a Century, Barbera wrote he was born in New York City to parents of Italian descent. His article in the Encyclopaedia Britannica and a 1987 Hanna-Barbera press release of his biography say the same. 173.60.29.47 (talk) 19:23, 17 July 2009 (UTC)Rich Rodriguez, West Covina, CA, USA

Death

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/archives/2006_12.html#002562 He just died today, not much detail is out though

IPA Correction

The Italian pronunciation of the tonic vowel is with a closed /e/, not the open /ɛ/. The Sicilian pronunciation needs checking.Jerchower 12:29, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Death Bump

On Adult Swim, unlike usual comedic bumps, they had one on (I believe December 18th) stating his birth to death years. Does anyone have the time of death, as it seemed to pop up at random in between 2 of Adult Swims normal laughable bumps. 24.91.155.164 04:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Rather than "among others", I'd prefer seeing "Yogi Bear" up in the middle of the cited TV animations. It actually comes to mind first when I hear the name Hanna-Barbera studios. Anyone else out there agree? For reference, see the YOGI BEAR article in Wiki. Those of us a certain age have the ring tone "Smarter than the average bear" embedded in our psyches.Cstromek 19:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Emmys

Wasnt his rememberence was in the emmys

half sicilian or not? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 91.138.118.122 (talk) 10:16, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

At least half Sicilian. See his bio, personal section. In his autobio he doesn't mention being Lebanese. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:36, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Marriage date

On page 53 of his autobio, he says he married Dorothy while working at Van Beuren Studios, so this had to be between 1934-1936. On page 58 he says they were married a year before he went to Cal, so the marriage must have been about 1935-36. They separated before he went to Cal but got together again soon afterwards (p. 66). They almost separated again shortly thereafter but stayed together after they learned she was pregnant (p. 90). The strain of TV cartoon production finally broke them up for good (p. 129). — Rlevse • Talk • 01:47, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Taft sale price

Some refs say the sale price was reported at $25 million, but the Barbera autobiography says it was $12, so I went with that. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Fires and quakes

Fires, a bane of Southern California life, affected his house four times, pp. 202-203 of autobio. He was also the victim of at least two major earhtquakes. The second one required his house be torn down (Jan 17, 1994 quake), pp. 203-206. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:35, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Pre-FAC comments

As requested by User:Rlevse, here is a pre-FAC review:

• "As a young child, Barbera lived, attended college, and began his career in New York City." Contradictory, how could Barbera be a young child when he attended college and worked his career?
• "$12 million" Per MOS, common currency symbols do not need to be linked.
• "Joseph Barbera (pronounced bar-BEAR-uh) was born in the Little Italy (Lower East Side) section of Manhattan, New York, to immigrants of Sicilian descent, but moved to Flatbush, Brooklyn, New York at the age of four months." "but"-->and, the second phrase does not contradict the first. and moved phoentics to lead
• "Larry landed in Sicily" More information please.
• "Dorothy Earl, his first wife, was his high school sweetheart and in their senior year they were named "Romeo and Juliet"." Instead of "named", called or referred to would be better.
• "Even Additionally, he once told of a letter that he wrote to Walt Disney asking for advice about getting started in the animation industry." Extra word.
• "While working at a bank his magazine drawings of single cartoons, not comic strips, began to be published in Redbook, Saturday Evening Post, and especially Collier's." Comma after bank. Why "especially Collier's"? left question on your talk
• "Disney wrote back, saying he would call Barbera during an upcomping trip to New York, but the call never took place." Typo: "upcomping"-->upcoming.
• "He found that Los Angeles was suffering just as much from the Great Depression as was Brooklyn and almost returned." Returned where?
• "Modeled after the Puss Gets the Boot characters with slight differences, the series followed Jerry the pesky rodent who continuously outwitted his feline foe, Tom." Comma after Jerry.
• "Critics were often less than kind to the change from lush, detailed animation to flat characters with repetitive motion." How about: "Critics criticized the change..."
• "He was also one of the first animators to realize the enormous potential of television." Who is he?
• "n 1992 Barbera met with Michael Jackson, who is an avid cartoon fan,"
• Date linking is deprecated by the MOS.
• "His wife Sheila was at his side when he died, and three children by a previous marriage also survived him:" "by"-->from.
• "and something they'd only done twice before; for Harry Goz in 2003 and Sam Loeb in 2005" No contractions, please. Only is POV.
• "for Harry Goz in 2003 and Sam Loeb in 2005"—There's no period at the end.
• Once again, check for overlinking of shows.

Dabomb87 (talk) 20:53, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Joseph Barbera ethnicity.

Alright, some people claim he was Italian, others claim he was Lebanese. First, there are many sources saying he was Lebanese, while you say he was Italian since you claim he said so. So anyways, the best way to deal with this, is to simply leave out his ethnicity. Its that simple. You don't just throw sources out because you don't agree with them and then claim a book you read is The source!Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 19:22, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

It's hard to find a better source than his autobio. It never mentions Lebanese and says his family is from Sicily. See note on your page about how the Lebanese bit all started in an obit when he died. He spoke Italian for pete's sake, not Arabic. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:00, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

All I'm saying is simply leave out that small bit because some people think he was Lebanese and some think he was Italian (I'm gonna take a neutral POV). Do you have a source or anything that explains how the Lebanese thing started? Even if he spoke Italian, doesn't mean he did not speak any other languages besides it and English. To be neutral and fair, we should simply leave out his ethnicity.Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 21:07, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

You really should read his autobio. He makes a big deal of being Italian (see all the page cites I list on this talk page). The Lebanese thing started when he died. One, and only one, obit said he was Lebanese. All others say he was Italian. The problem has simply snowballed from there. I'm sure if he spoke Arabic/Lebanese he'd have mentioned it. Even if he's part Lebanese, which is highly doubtful, it's so insignificant to him - if it were trye - he didn't mention it in his own book. Everything indicates this Lebanese thing is mere journalistic error. He mentions no other ehtnicity than Italian, specifically Sicilian. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:20, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Do you have a link/source that, that is how the Lebanese thing started? A lot of sources out there state he was Lebanese. You claim in his book he says he's Italian. Bottom line is, many sources claim he was Lebanese (I had already posted quite a few) while you say his book says he's Italian. Solution? Leave out the ethnicity bit. That is what should be done. Or, add that many sources claim he was Lebanese along with the book claiming he was Italian.Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 21:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I answered how it got started twice already. The difference is that Barbera himself only says he's Italian. It's hard to trump that. He's highly unlikely to be wrong about it. Your sources are other people claiming he's Lebanese, which is far more error prone than the person himself. You changed the article to say he was only Lebanese yet he clearly many times during his life said he was Italian/Sicilian. Can you find anywhere Barbera himself says he was Lebanese as opposed to others claiming he was Lebanese. It's not like Barbera said he's half and half and someone is trying to cut out half. Barbera only says he's Italian. Why can't you accept that? He states the village his parents, grandparents etc come from in Sicily, not Lebanon. You're essentially claiming others know Barbera's ethnicity better than he knows it himself. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:01, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm saying that for people to verify that he truly was Italian, they would have to go to a library or buy the book, since that is where you claim he spoke about his ethnicity. Almost no one will go to a library or buy the book just to find out (Many people wouldn't even be able to go to a library or buy the book); They will rather do a simple internet search. Now, doing an internet search will bring up many articles claiming he was Lebanese instead. So again, if you have a source that the whole Lebanese thing started in his obit, then post it! And for the third time already, we should leave out his ethnicity to be fair or state that many sources claim he was Lebanese along with a book that claims he was Italian. Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 22:24, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Books are among the most reliable sources. The Internet can be very unreliable, though not all sites of course. See WP:RS. Removing all ethnicity claims when we his very reliable auto bio is not the way to go. Your claim that all Internet sites claim he's Lebanese is ludicrous. Here's just one that says he's Italian. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:30, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I did not say that all internet sites claim he was Italian. Read it again! Furthermore, if you don't want to remove his ethnicity, then we should add the Lebanese claim since Many sources and sites claim he was Lebanese. Again, Not everyone has access to the book! So simply stating that he was Italian without making a mention of his Lebanese ethnicity, is Itself not the way to go. I'm being very flexible here, it is You who's not helping resolve this issue!!Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 22:38, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Please consider joining the feedback request service. An editor has requested comments from other editors for this discussion. Within 24 hours, this page will be added to the following list: Biographies When discussion has ended, remove this tag and it will be removed from the list. If this page is on additional lists, they will be noted below.

Joseph Barbera ethnicity. User Rlevse claims that in a book, Barbera says his ethnicity is Italian. He has not provided any other links besides one to that book that he says is Barbera's autobio. However, I've provided many reliable sources stating that Barbera had Lebanese ethnicity. All have been rejected. I suggested that Barbera's ethnicity be left out since its a source of controversy, user Rlevse simply rejected it. So I then suggested that the claims of Barbera's Lebanese ethnicity be added. It seems that that has also been rejected.Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 00:53, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• Comment. I thought this might be interesting and easy to resolve by doing some Google searches... turns out I was wrong. There are three sources listed by Knight Prince - Sage Veritas

• The first is a Google book that has a short entry about Barbera, where he states his grandmother was a traditional Lebenese cook. I don't think that is a reliable source that Barbera has Lebanese parents... especially since the book also has him talking about his other grandmother being an Irish chef!
• The second is an article from a high school newspaper. That's not a reliable source.
• The third is a travel site. Not a reliable source for a person's biography... especially since the website also lists Barbera elsewhere as being Sicilian...

However, a link from the last source goes to this article from The Daily Telegraph, which states he has Lebanese parents. As far as I can tell, this is the only reliable, impartial secondary source that states that. There are a number of Lebanese-specific websites that lists him as being Lebanese.

On the other hand, his own autobiography states his parents were Italian (and no, contrary to beliefs stated above, we do not need a link to an online version of the book in order to rely on it). That is supported by reliable online secondary sources, such as this article from The Independent. Most of the other online sources either lists Misplaced Pages as its source or are Italian-specific websites, similar to the Lebanese-specific websites.

Given the above, and given that his autobiography would be best souce possible, I suggest leaving it as is, with the possible additional comment in parenthesis that The Daily Telegraph stated his parents were Lebanese. Keep in mind that I haven't read the autobiography myself, but Rkevse is a reliable editor and administrator, and the issue is easily confirmed by checking the book out a local library. Singularity42 (talk) 04:21, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Comment - A quick search of my own backs up Singularity's results. I agree that he should be referred to as Italian; I would not be opposed to a parenthetical statement regarding the Daily Telegraph's claim of Lebanese ancestry, but it doesn't seem really necessary to include one. Nutiketaiel (talk) 14:26, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

To user Singularity42, user Rlevse is anything but reliable. Especially when he started warning me about my edits on another article for no reason (there was nothing wrong with them), (see my talk page archive). Furthermore, you say that Italian websites state that Barbera's ethnicity is Italian just as Lebanese websites state his ethnicity is Lebanese. You also said that The Daily Telegraph stated his ethnicity as being Lebanese. I may agree with you, but I would propose stating that his ethnicity is questionable with some claiming it is Lebanese and some claiming Italian. That would be fair. Otherwise, leaving it as is, is not NPOV.Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 21:51, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages featured articles
• Featured articles that have not appeared on the main page
• FA-Class biography articles
• FA-Class biography (actors and filmmakers) articles
• High-importance biography (actors and filmmakers) articles
• Actors and filmmakers work group articles
• WikiProject Biography articles
• FA-Class Animation articles
• Top-importance Animation articles
• FA-Class Animation articles of Top-importance
• FA-Class American animation articles
• Unknown-importance American animation articles
• American animation work group articles
• WikiProject Animation articles
• Misplaced Pages requests for comment