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Revision as of 08:44, 7 September 2009

Nanobear~enwiki is taking a short wikibreak to get ready for exams and will be back on Misplaced Pages once the exams are over.

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Paulkint

OK, you win. His first posts to the article were also his first contributions to Misplaced Pages, and I thought they deserved some forbearance out of our desire not to be hostile to newbies. But it has become clear since that he is simply on a vendetta against the possibility of interstellar travel. I (obviously) think is unverifiable and POV. I've been standing aside lately (partly due to other responsibilities) but agree it is time to rein him in. Sigh, Wwheaton (talk) 06:06, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Ossetia

How does one join? HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 05:51, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Just sign in the list of participating editors: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Ossetia#Participation. Offliner (talk) 05:59, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Synth

Re: Your revert http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Georgians_in_South_Ossetia&diff=311458062&oldid=311455183 (rv - including this quote is WP:SYNTH, since it doesn't discuss "ethnic cleansing")

There is not WP:SYNTH, since the connection is explicitely made in the source quoted: "THERE is growing evidence of looting and "ethnic cleansing" in villages in the area of conflict between Russia and Georgia.

The attacks — some witnessed by reporters or documented by a human rights group — include stealing, the burning of homes and possibly killings. Some are ethnically motivated, while at least some of the looting appears to be the work of opportunistic profiteers.

The identities of the attackers vary, but a pattern of violence by ethnic Ossetians against ethnic Georgians is emerging and has been confirmed by some Russian authorities. "Now Ossetians are running around and killing poor Georgians in their enclaves," said Major-General Vyacheslav Borisov, the commander in the Russian-occupied city of Gori." --Xeeron (talk) 15:28, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Replied on the article talk page. Offliner (talk) 23:02, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Some frank words

You are not doing your own cause a favor by your actions at Ethnic cleansing of Georgians in South Ossetia. You might have noticed my absence of editing on that page during the first week after that article's creation (despite the fact that I obviously noticed it and it is in a field I am interested in). Or you might have noted the absence of my vote on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/2008 genocide of Georgians in South Ossetia. Both are due to the fact that I am not entirely convinced that we need that article.

However, there has been a notable push to remove all sources and analysts overly critical of Russia from all topics related to 2008 South Ossetia war (and maybe other Russia-related topics that I am not interested in as well). This is done by quoting various wikipolicies, like WP:FRINGE (made to exclude crackpot theories about UFOs and such) or WP:SYNTH (made to prevent synthesis of different sources), in cases that are not covered by the word nor spirit of these policies. In all cases, it is hard not to conclude that these policies are (ab)used to remove material that has nothing wrong with it, except portraying the wrong POV.

I don't like the current state of the article either, but the way out is constructive editing, not citing random policies to remove material. Please don't sink to the level of other POV warriors. --Xeeron (talk) 13:13, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I think there is a valid reason for removing Borisov's quote from Ethnic cleansing of Georgians in South Ossetia, as I have explained. I think it's WP:SYNTH (but not WP:FRINGE). In any case it could be easily replaced with something by the HRW. But I don't feel like doing many improvements on that article, since I don't recognize its independence. I don't agree with the removal of Felgenhauer from the main article, since his opinion (credible or not) was quoted by so many sources. But it could perhaps be replaced with something more recent and more scholarly. Or maybe it's best to do nothing before the report comes out and hopefully reaches a clear enough conclusion. Offliner (talk) 04:57, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the main article, I agree with you. Once the EU report is out, I hope that we can considerably shorten that section, replacing many or all analyists statements with one or two summary sentences. I was prepared to do nothing in that section and wait for the report, but unfortunately, someone else did not want to wait. Regarding the ethnic cleansing article, it is in a miserable state and I can understand why you do not want to work on it. Yet simply removing statements (and I disagree with your SYNTH assessment) will only make it worse. --Xeeron (talk) 11:39, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion

I suggest to create an article on informational war against Russia, see the ghits. (Igny (talk) 04:27, 4 September 2009 (UTC))

I've been thinking of creating something like that for a long time. We could include material about the anti-Russian lobby in the USA or about Berezovsky's activities (he is the grandmaster of media war). I think Tsygankov's book probably has some good info about the former, but I haven't had the change to read it yet. What kind of content did you have in mind for the article? Offliner (talk) 05:03, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

This is also interesting. In reporting about the Caucasus, the Western media seems to focus solely on crimes committed by Russia, completely ignoring what the terrorists are doing, although the terrorists have killed much more people. It's interesting to compare this to Western media's reporting about the Afghan war. There, the media seems to unanimously agree, that the Taliban are evil, and should all be killed, and they are very symphatetic towards NATO forces' attempts to do this. Such material could be discussed in an article about Anti-Russian media bias. Offliner (talk) 08:04, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, the article can pretty much include any attempt to distort/insult Russia's public image by raising frivolous and baseless claims/accusations about the country, its political elite, and definitely its history. All the scholarly sources discussing the matter of organizing such a campaign of discrediting Russia have to be included. Any examples of Russia's blunders on this front are also welcome. Also I would really like to connect this information war to the edit wars on the Misplaced Pages. I am still looking if there are scholarly articles connecting the two, but I do not have a lot of time to put too much effort here. (Igny (talk) 17:38, 4 September 2009 (UTC))