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Revision as of 14:28, 10 September 2009

Comment on evidence presented by Tim Shuba

I am not a physicist so feel free to discount what I say accordingly. I have not edited any of the articles in question. However, I have had a few opportunities in the past to engage in conversation on-Wiki with Tim Shuba, and I can report that in my opinion he is a cautious, circumspect and helpful editor, who shows no trace of arrogance or condescension to lay people and is pleased to volunteer helpful information. Arbitrators may want to take my comments into account as they consider criticism launched at Shuba by Tombe and Brews. --Goodmorningworld (talk) 17:49, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The following also might be taken into account as indicative of a grave acceptance of responsibility:

“Primarily, I use wikipedia for enjoyment rather than attempt to edit seriously. Since I am aware of how and why so much blatantly bogus information gets into articles, and why a large number of articles are highly unreliable, it doesn't affect me adversely as a user. Therefore, whether the speed of light article gets better or gets worse isn't too important to me.″ Tim Shuba

Brews ohare (talk) 00:20, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Goodmorningworld, The only thing that I have written that might be interpreted as criticism of Tim Shuba was my reference to the fact that he deleted a large and very important sub-section from the history section of the speed of light article on 29th August, hence leaving an inexplicable gap in the chronology. I wasn't the one who actually put in that sub-section on the luminiferous aether, however, I made substantial modifications to the paragraph regarding Maxwell's role in that part of the history of the speed of light. I challenged Tim Shuba on his talk page as to why he had removed that sub-section, and he replied with double irony disguised as humour. It's all very nice that you can come here as a non-physicist and give a character reference for Tim Shuba, but eventually the merits of Tim Shuba's removal of that section will have to be judged by somebody with a knowledge about electromagnetism. David Tombe (talk) 08:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

What is really going on with David Tombe (moved from Evidence page)

In part of a longish rant to Jimbo Wales' talk page, Dave Tombe wrote, "I have therefore attempted to introduce specialized knowledge back into wikipedia in areas that I have done alot of research in."

As regarding physics articles, this statement refers to nineteenth century theories. In particular, the period of "the old real physics", before "the new nonsense physics" of Einstein's theory of relativity. Most of David Tombe's contributions to physics article have this extreme fringiest of the fringe motivation (since the word crank can be incivil, I will endeavor to use euphemisms, though I admit to having used it freely when I first commented about David Tombe). Here are some examples of the kind of "specialized knowledge" we can expect to be introduced.

• "It is likley that Einstein misunderstood Maxwell's equations."
• "Einstein on the other hand appears to have totally failed to grasp anything that Maxwell said at all."

Please arbitrators and other uninvolved interested parties, find an acquaintance who is conversant in physics and ask about these quotes. They are utterly preposterous, show no expertise whatsoever, and bode ill for anything but the attempted introduction of disruption and pseudoscience into the encyclopedia. Many of the recent arguments in the speed of light article center around this 1983 definition, and this undoubtedly leaves outsiders bemused. Well, the theoretical reasoning (there are other reasons) for this definition is solidly based on Einstein's theory of relativity. As such, it is antithetical to David Tombe's extreme minority point of view. In his words, "his most important chapter of scientific history has now degenerated into the abominable post-1983 new physics that is summed up in the lead to the vacuum permittivity article."

David Tombe's participation in physics articles is the epitome of what needs to be addressed within the context of the intent of the arbcom pseudoscience decision. Tim Shuba (talk) 04:18, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Statement transferred from Evidence Page

Despite all that Tim Shuba has said above, I have not been putting original research into the articles. My major contribution to the speed of light article was in the history section. It passed the consensus and remained there for a few weeks until Tim Shuba deleted it. Here is the content material in question as removed by Tim Shuba. I wrote most of the middle paragraph beginning with Wilhelm Eduard Weber and Rudolf Kohlrausch in 1856, down to Maxwell's 1865 paper. With the exception of a few modifications relating to Maxwell's 1865 paper that were made by Martin Hogbin, that paragraph is essentially mine. So why did Tim Shuba remove it? That is perhaps the most crucial aspect in the entire history of the speed of light. It relates to how James Clerk-Maxwell showed the linkage between the measured speed of light and the electic and magnetic constants (nowadays referred to as the electric permittivity and the magnetic permeability). I have expanded on this issue in a series of articles that are published in an on-line journal entitled 'The General Science Journal'. There was actually a wikipedia article page about that journal until Tim Shuba had it deleted about a week ago.

Until last month, I knew absolutely nothing about the decision to re-define the metre in 1983 in terms of the speed of light. When I investigated the matter, I discovered that Brews was absolutely correct. The metre is now defined as the distance that light travels in a specified fraction of a second. That means that in SI units, the speed of light is then defined in terms of itself, and so it immediately loses the connection with the physical speed of light and becomes a mere definition with an arbitraily assigned number. It means that in SI units, the speed of light is beyond measurement and it is therefore important that the article introduction clearly makes a distinction between the new SI speed of light on the one hand, and the physical speed of light as is expressed in other systems of units and which can be measured. My involvement in the main article in relation to that issue was minimal and I was not involved in the edit war. Instead, I went to investigate the knock-on effect that this new definition would have on the electric permittivity, and how Maxwell's discovery in 1861 would be written up in the textbooks in the context of the new 1983 definition. The experiment in question was still in my 1979 edition of 'Nelkon & Parker'. I brought up the subject at WT:PHYS. An editor Headbomb tried to tell me that since 1983 we can no longer put a ruler across the plates of a capacitor and measure the distance. He told me that instead we will be in fact merely calibrating the ruler. I considered this to be total nonsense and I made my opinions about it clear on the speed of light talk page. An editor called Physchim62 then ran to AN/I to complain that I was engaging in disruptive editing, and I got promptly page banned without any apparent investigation into the truth of the allegation. Meanwhile, Christopher Thomas, who was the only one who seems to have understood my argument at WT:PHYS came along and maliciously presented the WT:PHYS thread as evidence of disruptive behaviour. Since then, I have been to the science library and confirmed my suspicions, that since 1983, the capacitor experiment that links the electric permittivity to the speed of light has disappeared from the textbooks. I did find one exception, and that was the 1995 (seventh edition) of 'Nelkon & Parker'. This then goes full circle to the bit in the history section that Tim Shuba deleted. The main question that needs to be asked at this hearing is, 'Why did Tim Shuba remove that edit? In doing so, he removed a vital chunk from the chronology in the history section. I questioned him about it on his talk page and all I got in return was double irony disguised as humour. And whatever the answer is, you'll find that it is the exact same reason why he and certain others don't want Brews to elaborate on the significance of the 1983 definition of the metre. That's why I've suggested that the article be handed over to Steve Byrnes and semi-protected for six months, with a voluntary withdrawal of all the disputing parties. David Tombe (talk) 08:07, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Comment on Physchim62's allegations

Physchim62 has just made a statement on the evidence board to the extent that he believes that I believe that I own the speed of light article. He then asks whether or not he must present evidence that I don't believe it. The answer is that he doesn't have to. But he must present evidence that I do believe it, and so far, he has presented none. And he would have a very hard job presenting any such evidence in view of my minimal involvement in the article. Ultimately it was Physchim62 that started all this. He started it when he went to AN/I to report me for disruptive behaviour without presenting any evidence of what disruption was actually caused. It is because of that singular action on the part of Physchim62 that this whole arbitration hearing has come about. Therefore it might be a good idea if the hearing begins with Physchim62 presenting evidence of the actual disruption that was caused by my edits. If he can't present evidence of any actual disruption, then questions need to be asked by the higher authorities. David Tombe (talk) 13:45, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Several uninvolved administrators decided that your behaviour at Talk:Speed of light was sufficiently disruptive to merit a topic ban from such articles. If you continue such an editing style on these pages, it will hardly do much for your case. The single talk page section , quoted in my evidence section, shows your desire to have editing at Speed of light "handed over" (that was your term in the title of the talkpage section) because "verybody else tried to sweep that experiment under the carpet because it isn't compatible with the new unmeasurable speed of light"; that is, so that (you hope) your absolutely fringe view of physics will continue to be promoted on Misplaced Pages. I think that justifies any accusations against WP:OWN although it is not, of course, my decision to make at this venue. Physchim62 (talk) 14:10, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Physchim62, An experiment in physics disappeared from the textbooks because of a new system of units. There are plenty of sources on teh library shelves to prove that. Practically any modern physica textbook proves it. Do you want to subordinate real physics to a system of units? Bringing that issue to attention at WT:PHYS is not disruptive behaviour, and the term 'fringe physics' has got nothing to do with it. You need to learn to start actually debating these issues rather than running off to noticeboards trying to get your opponents disqualified. The issue here is, "do we report the physical speed of light and the defined speed of light as two distinct topics, or do we only report the defined speed of light and sweep the physical speed of light under the carpet? Do we sacrifice the physical speed of light to the SI system?". David Tombe (talk) 14:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)