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Downtown Hartford

• Articles for deletion/Downtown Hartford

Downtown Hartford (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Article lacks assertion of notability and any substantial sources. It appears that the creator of the article intended to construct an article based on patching together information on 8 historic districts in Hartford, but has not completed that thought and is not likely to do so. The historic districts are wikipedia-notable and can and will be covered in separate articles; they do not need this as a vehicle to cover them. It is not established that "Downtown Hartford" has any legal or other specific meaning or is in actual common usage, much less that the phrase has more common usage than other possible constructions such as "Central Hartford" or "Central Business District/Downtown" as it is referred to in Neighborhoods of Hartford, Connecticut. Google search turns up hits on the phrase "Downtown Hartford" of course, but those that i reviewed speak of a "downtown area of Hartford" and otherwise do not establish that "Downtown Hartford" has important meaning and definition on its own. I would suggest merger to Hartford, Connecticut article but see no useful content to merge. Per the essay wp:LOCAL: "If some source material is available, but is insufficient for a comprehensive article, it is better to mention the subject under the article for its parent locality." So if some useful material can be found, I suggest it be added at Hartford, Connecticut or at Neighborhoods of Hartford, Connecticut, instead. Per wp:SPLIT there is no need for this to be split out from the neighborhoods article, which is about 17k in size (for articles < 30 KB, "Length alone does not justify division").doncram (talk) 06:55, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

• Delete - no encyclopaedic value in this verbal description of a map. New seeker (talk) 11:51, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

• Delete per nom.  B.Rossow _contr 18:14, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Connecticut-related deletion discussions. —Orlady (talk) 00:31, 23 September 2009 (UTC) --Orlady (talk) 00:31, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

• Keep. The AfD nomination is disingenuous and totally lacking in merit. The topic is notable and extensive well-sourced information exists to build the article. The nominator's statement of the reasons for deletion boils down to "I don't like the person who split this article off from Neighborhoods of Hartford, Connecticut," which is not a valid reason for deletion. Contrary to the nominator's assertion that "Downtown Hartford" lacks "legal or other special meaning" and is not "in actual common usage", this section of the city is defined and described on an official city website and a search restricted to the phrase "downtown Hartford" returns "about 113,000" ghits"downtown+hartford", of which at least the first 100 are about Downtown Hartford, Connecticut (the topic of this article). Moreover, the nominator is disingenuous in suggesting that the subject does not have sufficient coverage for an article, as the nominator apparently intends to replace this one article with at least 8 much narrower articles on subtopics, beginning with Downtown North Historic District (Hartford, Connecticut), which he split off from this article (see diff1 and diff2) after encountering opposition to his proposal to delete the redirect of that article name. --Orlady (talk) 01:35, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

If by disingenuous you mean the dictionary meaning "lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere", I resent that remark and your repetition of it. What specifically do you mean I am insincere about. My starting this AFD has to do with a larger context of seeking to remove inappropriate redirects and inaccurate coverage of CT NRHPs (a large topic which others could get into by seeing Talk:List of RHPs in CT and its archives). The immediate prompt for me was indeed your opposition to the simple deletion of an inappropriate-in -my view redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects_for_discussion#various_NRHP_HDs_in_CT. I explicitly gave notice to you and others there that I had started this AFD and I explained why I was proceeding to start the Downtown North HD article.

Orlady you have been specifically asked by me and others not to make remarks that are personal about me. I have repeatedly asked you not to characterise my motivations. Others have objected when I characterized some of your previous characterisations of me as being outright lies. Here, I think you dance around a little bit, but it is verging on the same. About what you specifically suggest:

• That i nominated this for AFD because I dislike the person who created it, that is a false statement. I have never said that, and it is not true. Why assert that?
• You say I make an "assertion that "Downtown Hartford" lacks "legal or other special meaning" and is not "in actual common usage"'. That is simply true. Read what I wrote: I said that in the article "It is not established that "Downtown Hartford" has any legal or other specific meaning or is in actual common usage" and that is or was true based on the article as written. Why mischaracterise me?
• You state "the nominator apparently intends to replace this one article with at least 8 much narrower articles on subtopics". That is also a false statement, and this one I think it amounts to a lie, because you actually know differently. For me to prove to others that you know differently takes more effort than others may want us to go into here, but for a start others could see Misplaced Pages:Redirects_for_discussion#various_NRHP_HDs_in_CT and the 6 previous batches of CT NRHP redirects linked from there which I sought to delete, rather than create CT NRHP stub articles. Why would you lie about this? (To others, I do support any local editor who wants to take photos, get sources, and develop articles about any of the 8 historic districts mentioned, which are wikipedia-notable topics. That is different than what Orlady is asserting.)

Depending on how you define what lying is, those characterisations are either lies or very close to lies, and I think your commenting this way is inappropriate for an administrator or for any other editor. I could easily make counter-accusations about your motives, disingenuity, etc., but will refrain. (If anyone else objects to the tone of my response here, I will be willing to discuss it at my Talk page or elsewhere, and hopefully not continue in this vein here. I have at least once previously asked Orlady whether she would participate in a mediation process, and she declined. For the record I would be happy to participate in some sensible process elsewhere. However, from my previous many interactions with Orlady, I believe I have learned that I do need to respond promptly and directly to insinuations she makes, or else the discussion of content is poisoned irretrievably. Sorry about this.) About the article, I am not impressed by the development so far, and think that it remains best to leave development of information about the central business district of Hartford to a section in the Hartford neighborhoods article. doncram (talk) 02:34, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

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