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Revision as of 02:44, 2 October 2009

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Hello, Chjoaygame, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! RJFJR (talk) 15:55, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Entropy of the universe

Could you please explain why you say here (edit summary) that the "entropy of the universe has no physical meaning"? Entropy is a physical property of any system, the universe is a system, therefore the universe has an entropy that you can compute, and this a well-defined number with a physical meaning...right?

As I'm sure you know, there are plenty of reliable sources that use "entropy of the universe" as the basis for the second law, e.g. . Maybe you have some basis for saying these sources are wrong? --Steve (talk) 05:20, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I am not sure exactly how to reply to you. I have written my reply in the discussion page. Please let me know if this was not the right way for me to reply.Chjoaygame (talk) 07:54, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

"new" Swenson fan on entropy pages

Can you find online refs that single out the Swenson contribution to maximum entropy production theorems? There are at least 2 aliases claiming the MEP law due to Swenson is THE law of interest and my read on lit is much different. Thanks.

Thank you for your comment. You forgot to sign it with the four tildes. But I think you are Nerdseeksblonde? Thank you for pointing to access to the Physica Scripta 70: 212-221 (2004) paper by Mahulikar and Herwig. I will read it.

I am chasing up the works of Swenson. I have so far only one. I am sorry that it is in hardcopy form, twenty-four pages, not easy to send to you. It is Chapter 6 of a book Cybernetics and Applied Systems, edited by A.C.V. Negoit, published by Marcel Dekker, 1992, ISBN 0824786777. Pages 125-148, chapter title "Order, Evolution, and Natural Law: Fundamental Relations in Complex System Theory". It is at an introductory or popular science level. As well as an introductory account of the Benard cells, it contains discussions of Aristotle. I am a keen admirer of Aristotle, but he does not have very much specific to contribute to a detailed consideration of the present kind of problem in thermodynamics. This chapter contains nothing of interest to a serious student of the kind of problem in thermodynamics considered by Ozawa Ohmura Lorenz Pujol 2003 or Martyushev Seleznev 2006. The depth of analysis is not remotely even that of Onsager 1931 (I & II). I expect to get more of Swenson's works before too long. Indeed as I write, another arrives. It is an article in the Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, 901:311-319 (2000), Spontaneous Order, Autocatakinetic Closure, and the Development of Space-Time. It says more or less the same things as Chapter 6 of Cybernetics and Applied Systems. Again, I expect to get more of Swenson's works before too long. Chjoaygame (talk) 16:15, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I was expecting SineBot to do that LOL. The Herwig paper seems to be rather circular in analysis ( " Swenson confirms statement 1 of Swenson") and only comes up once AFAIK on gscholar. Curious to find out about the humboldt group- they sponsored that work and goog hits are largely their site, the MEP site, and wikipedia LOL. I'm still not sure what this principle translate into when trying to predict even qualitative behaviour of something. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 17:12, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

The "orderliness" of the Benard cell structure derives from the "orderly" constraints, namely that the heat is supplied uniformly over the base and the base is flat and the upper surface is flat. Chjoaygame (talk) 20:47, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I have accessed another Swenson reference. Swenson R. (1988). "Emergence and the principle of maximum entropy production: multi-level system theory, evolution, and non-equilibrium thermodynamics", Proceedings of the 32nd International Society for General Systems Research, page 32. This is a one-page flyer, with a general philosophical orientation, referring for example to irreducibility and emergence.Chjoaygame (talk) 22:02, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

welcome / hello

Hi Chjoaygame, I've noted your dispute with Ratel at Garth Paltridge's biography. I'll see if I can help there. Alex Harvey (talk) 02:44, 2 October 2009 (UTC)