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California Start‑class Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination: In progress, 28 September 2009, see DRV. Keep, 14 September 2009, see discussion.

Article issues

Sources

Bad sources include:

1. . Hollywood Web Television Meetup http://oct09-hollywoodwebtv.eventbrite.com/. Retrieved 2009-09-18. {{cite news}}: Missing or empty |title= (help); Unknown parameter |name= ignored (help)
2. . NetworkedBlogs.com http://www.networkedblogs.com/blog/tubefilter_news/. Retrieved 2009-09-26. {{cite news}}: Missing or empty |title= (help); Text "Tubefilter News" ignored (help)

1. This is just a link to a copy of one of www.tubefilter.tv/meetup/ hosted on a publicity website.
2. Another promotional website which allows blog owners to help promote their blog.

To remedy this, I have replaced ref 1 with the original source (www.tubefilter.tv/meetup/) and on ref 2 changed the publisher to Tubefilter Staff as they are the ones fully in control of the content on that site.--Otterathome (talk) 09:03, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

On what basis do you consider a "bad source" one that contains information that is included in both a primary source and a secondary source? I.e. where in POLICY does it say that? Additionally, the publisher is the person who publishes material, not writes it, the publisher for that blog was correctly named NetworkedBlogs. Until you can provide otherwise in a way that suits a consensus of editors, I will be removing the content you added on this topic, since you must be the one to WP:PROVEIT. --Zoeydahling (talk) 19:12, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

NetworkedBlogs is just the service for websites to promote their blogs, they don't control the content. So the publishers that publish it are the users, in this case Tubefilter staff. Eventbright is exactly the same except for articles in general, it's just a copy of the article from the website.--Otterathome (talk) 20:27, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

The definition of publisher that was provided does not say the publisher needs to control the content it puts out, just publish it. That's all they are doing, therefore NetworkedBlogs is the publisher. Not to mention, can you find me where it says that NetworkedBlogs doesn't control the content? I looked on the site but wasn't able to find it, so maybe you can since you are making the claim, afterall. And the Eventbrite source contains information that the on-site source does not. And once again, can you provide me where it says that Eventbrite does not have any say over the content? Because once again, I could not find it. --Zoeydahling (talk) 20:34, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

It is self-published content, like the same way somebody using myspace service would publish a blog entry using their service. Can you show me which information the eventbright sources has that the official tubefilter link doesn't?--Otterathome (talk) 20:44, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

If I posted a MySpace blog, the author would be me, the publisher would be MySpace. I wrote the blog, MySpace published it. --Zoeydahling (talk) 20:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Did you choose when to publish it or did Myspace?--Otterathome (talk) 20:55, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Synthesis

"its staff are regularly quoted by major media outlets when covering the web television industry."

None of the sources I can see state this making it WP:SYNTHESIS, so tagged.--Otterathome (talk) 09:09, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

You misunderstand WP:SYNTHESIS. Please re-read the policy. It says that synthesis would be: Article X talks about Z. Article Y talks about Z. Therefore, article X would say "this" about article Y. For example, see Fox News Channel. It states Many observers say that Fox News Channel's programming promotes conservative political positions. and then cite three articles that do just that. Until you can provide otherwise in a way that suits a consensus of editors, I will be removing the content you added on this topic, since you must be the one to WP:PROVEIT. --Zoeydahling (talk) 19:12, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Those sources say "sensible viewers discounted Fox News for conservative bias years ago", "long been accused by Democrats and liberals of having a conservative bias", "The Fox channel has long been a liberal bete noire and the subject of numerous documentaries about its obvious conservative bias". So those sources actually back up that statement. None of your sources mention anything about the website staff being quoted by other media outlets.--Otterathome (talk) 20:33, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Notability maintenance tags

As the article does not cite any independant coverage which isn't trivial so it doesn't pass our general notability guideline so I added that template.

As the article does not cite any independant coverage which isn't trivial it(1), nor does it say it has won any awards(2) and as it is self-published by the authors(3) it doesn't pass our web notability guidelines. So I have added the relevant template.

Editors are encouraged to find non-trivial independant coverage for this article which would invalidate both templates so they could be removed.--Otterathome (talk) 09:19, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

You are going off of your own personal opinion. An AfD was just undertaken which was closed as keep, indicating that a consensus of editors disagreed with you. You then took the topic to AN and further to DRV. Until the DRV rules as to whether the content can stay/whether it meets those policies well enough to merit addition to this encyclopedia, the tags have no business being on the page just because you think they belong so, and I will be removing them until the DRV rules. --Zoeydahling (talk) 19:12, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

What does the AFD/DRV have to do with it? Please stay on topic. I don't see any sources which are independant and are not trivial, please show me which ones you think are independant and not trivial.--Otterathome (talk) 20:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

The AFD/DRV has to do with it because it means a consensus of editors has determined that it meets the guidelines well enough to stay on wikipedia and therefore those tags are unrequired/unnecessary/however you choose to phrase it. Pretty much, it means they have no place being on the article. Any user can make changes to an article, but controversial changes must involve consensus and the AFD/DRV are the formats that have provided consensus for the notability of this article. --Zoeydahling (talk) 20:34, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Uh, what? Having an article not being deleted at AFD/DRV is not equal to showing it passes our guidelines. Can you please show me these sources which are independant and not trivial instead of referring to past discussions? If this has been shown in the past discussions, you can use that to show me them.--Otterathome (talk) 20:40, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

If it didn't pass our guidelines, it wouldn't have been kept at both the AFD/DRV (and like I said, since the DRV is still going, if they determine that it doesn't end up meeting the notability guidelines well enough to stay on the wiki, by all means, re-add the tag). It would have been deleted. You brought the AFD forth with the arguments of failing WP:N/WP:WEB and editors decided that either your arguments were incorrect or your arguments were irrelevant as far as the notability of this article goes, so there is no reason to tag them if the consensus of editors has already determined. --Zoeydahling (talk) 20:48, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

AFD/DRV is for editors to decide if an article is kept or not, not to decide if it meets certain guidelines. If you are not going to show or put forward any sources which are independant and are not trivial, I will be re-adding the tags.--Otterathome (talk) 20:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

And what determines if an article is kept or not? Whether it meets the guidelines of wikipedia well enough to merit inclusion on the wiki. The community decided that the article has, so it should not be tagged as though it doesn't. --Zoeydahling (talk) 20:55, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Consensus does, though guidelines are a part of it. AFDs are not solely to decide if article x meets notability guideline y, but whether it should be kept on Misplaced Pages at this current time. I take it you can't find any sources which independant and not trivial so will be re-adding the tags momentarily.--Otterathome (talk) 20:59, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Peacock terms

A peacock terms template has been added because of the large amount of them being used without the source(s) given backing them up. Examples:

• "web television content that features the best"
  • Peacock term, with primary source.
• "broken such major stories as Apple, Inc.'s foray into original content production"
  • Statement with peacock term not backed up by sources given.
• is best known for Tubefilter News
  • Peacock statement with primary source
• Major media outlets
  • None of the sources back up this peacock term.

I've added in-line Peacock term templates to all of them.--Otterathome (talk) 10:03, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

1. See source 5, cited at the ended of the sentence which also backs up the "best" claim. Removing this template until you can prove otherwise.

2. You have already added a template indicating that the information is not in the citation given. What benefit does it do the article to add a "peacock template" as well? If one fails long enough, I am sure the information will be removed, but for now, it does no benefit to have both.

3. "best known" is not a peacock term. It does not "merely promote the subject of the article without imparting verifiable information. Examples include describing people as "important", "main" or "among the greatest" in their field without explaining why." It is just saying why Tubefilter is known, not saying that it is the best in its field or something similar. Again, I am removing the template until you can prove that it belongs

5. Your opinion is that none of the sources are major media outlets. That is not a fact. The term is not a peacock term, there are major media outlets cited that cite Tubefilter as a source. Once again, removing this template until you can prove why it belongs.

--Zoeydahling (talk) 19:12, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

More boxes

This article needs MORE boxes on it, don't you think? Apparently since the DRV is not going to your liking, you decided to vent your frustrations here, otter. Its quite transparent, I think you'll agree. --Milowent (talk) 11:41, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

If you disagree with any of them or require further explanation, you can reply to the relevant sub-sections I have created above.--Otterathome (talk) 12:51, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

• Start-Class California articles
• Low-importance California articles
• WikiProject California articles