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Bucky O'Hare needs work and help

Bucky O'Hare needs work I have added some reliable sources of information but the article Bucky O'Hare (TV series) should be be renamed Bucky O'Hare and the Toad Wars rather as that was the name of the cartoon series rather than redirecting to the main comic book article.

Dwanyewest (talk) 10:39, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't seem a very controversial move (as it is listed as such at IMB and TV.com). Start a discussion at Talk:Bucky O'Hare (TV series) just to cover your bases and if there aren't any valid objections then I'd be happy to move the cartoon series to Bucky O'Hare and the Toad Wars. One thing worth doing now is checking this and make sure the incoming links on that redirect are pointing to the right article (that is, if they are referring to the comic book then update it) so that when/if the move takes places it won't cause any problems. (Emperor (talk) 15:26, 20 September 2009 (UTC))

I have placed my belief that Bucky O'Hare (TV series) article should be renamed by its television name on the main Bucky O Hare discussion board.

Dwanyewest (talk) 11:40, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

You really need to raise it on the talk page of the relevant article. (Emperor (talk) 14:24, 21 September 2009 (UTC))

Its just been done

Dwanyewest (talk) 16:26, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

OK it has been a month, so I've moved it. I did a quick check and everything seems OK but it is worth going over things to doublecheck. (Emperor (talk) 23:47, 13 October 2009 (UTC))

The other bugbear I have with the Bucky O'Hare article is how has this article gained a C rating before I intervened there seemed to be little or no third person sources regarding the subject. Now I know the article is a long way from being finished I really don't see how it in its current or previous state its C grade material.

Dwanyewest (talk) 20:44, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

• The article has references and sections and isn't entirely in-universe. That's about what C means. A stub is a very small article, a start is better than a stub in that there's more substance, but it isn't well organised or there aren't sections or all the information is just plot. A c is next on the ladder. It's a long way from a B though. You should take a trawl through all our articles if you think that one's particularly bad. Hiding T 22:01, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

If you look at the history of the rating it was actually at a B and was automatically downgraded to a C because no one had done an assessment. Looking over the article it is not great and I'd probably rate it as a Start but as Hiding has said it can be a bit of a grey area between a Start and a C (stubs and B an above are pretty clear cut in comparison) so I've no major problems with leaving it at a C for now if you are going to be working on it but I'll have a look again in a few months time and see how things are going. (Emperor (talk) 03:54, 29 September 2009 (UTC))

OK I shall try and add more things but I still feel the comic character and the Bucky O' Hare and the Toad Wars should be separate articles I have added enough addition info for the articles to be separate and stated so in the respective talk pages. Dwanyewest (talk) 10:57, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes I don't think there is a problem with having the TV series in a separate article. (Emperor (talk) 15:33, 3 October 2009 (UTC))

I have also created a new template for it to make navigation easier Template:Bucky O'Hare

Dwanyewest (talk) 09:50, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Comics genres

We kicked the question of comics genre articles before and a few issues have come up.

Romance comics was recently moved to Romance comics in the United States (1946–1975) but there must surely be room for a full article on romance comics and just because the main article focused on the American material doesn't mean we couldn't have a more rounded article on the whole genre. I know little about the topic though and don't know if we could have expanded the article as it is or if there is potential for a larger article of which there is a section on the American comics linking through to the specific article.

We have a similar problem at horror comics/Horror comics in the United States, 1947–1954 although this has been around for a bit longer. The article on the specific period in American comics is now GA and probably shouldn't be expanded as into a more general article and I know more about horror comics and there should be a larger article as horror comics are riding high these days. How would people propose breaking such an article down? Into regions (American horror comics, horror manga, British horror comics?) or periods? We could sketch out an outline in a sandbox and then move into the main space pretty quickly once we are happy.

There is a similar problem with crime comics, which looks at t specific period in American comics. Should we move it or try and make it more general? I'd suggest moving it (as with the others) but think we should probably address the horror/romance problems.

Also we should standardise the naming - brackets or a comma? I don't care either way as long as we settle on one.

Although it isn't looking great we might want to work on science fiction comics as a more general comics genre article and I have left thoughts on expanding it at Talk:Science fiction comics#Expanding, which might also be generally applicable to more general articles (whether to break down by period or region, for example).

There is also war comics, which is probably also too American-centric.

I also mentioned superhero comics and it does feel we really need to split out comics from superhero to superhero comics but splitting the article and hammering out a new article is a little trickier than creating the general horror comics article. Anyone got any thoughts/ideas on this? (Emperor (talk) 14:42, 21 September 2009 (UTC))

They shouldn't have been split down by years. User:ItsLassieTime did that because that's what they were interested in, and it was a cheap way to get them to GA (not that I don't appreciate the work they did). They've since been blocked for a long time. There might be info on the more modern years in the articles histories. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:15, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the background - very helpful. I am still unsure how to deal with the two articles as one is a GA and both standalone well, trying to expand them will just dilute them about leave the other material swamped. Pondering the problem it seems the best way forward is make the top slots into general articles (starting with horror comics, which seems the most obvious) linking through to these sub-articles. When they are looking well-rounded we can consider whether to merge them back in, although I suspect (at least for horror) they will be better as standalone articles. (Emperor (talk) 12:48, 22 September 2009 (UTC))

We can do it however we want, I guess. It's pretty much up to whoever actually works on them. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:19, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

At some point I'll make a start on horror comics but still need some input on whether to break down by region or try and do it by time. Or perhaps a little bit of both - start with early American horror comics then break the resurgence in interest down by region because I can't think of many early British horror comics for example. OK I'm starting to get a mental idea of a structure but if anyone has any other ideas then throw them in. (Emperor (talk) 13:28, 26 September 2009 (UTC))

From the above I have quicky sketched out my thoughts on structure (with soem example content) here. If anyone has anything to add or any ideas then go for it. Feel free to add to the article there if you want - a summary of the 1940s-mid-1950s US horror comics would be much appreciated. I'll keep adding material as it occurs to me and hammer it into shape - it is a bit of a braindump at the moment. (Emperor (talk) 16:01, 26 September 2009 (UTC))

Keep up the good work. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 16:04, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

OK it is coming along nicely - I've got mentions in of key creators and titles for the more recent comics, although needs more fleshing out and references as well as more on earlier comics and those from elsewhere (expanding horror manga and looking at European horror comics). It is clear that this can easily get to 30-40k and merging the other article in would be impossible and, as an important era it works OK as a standalone article. I will do a little more tinkering but want to move it into the mainspace rather than leaving it hanging around in my sandbox for too long (and then forgetting all about it) so if anyone has any additions to make then go for it. (Emperor (talk) 16:29, 27 September 2009 (UTC))

For reference, this is the version from before LassieTime started hacking back other sections on the 1940s-1950s horror comics article. I think the structure I'm putting in place seems to work fine, putting a section break at the 1971 relaxing of the Code, without overlooking the fact some titles carried on through this period. I'm getting happier with the way it looks and what it covers. (Emperor (talk) 23:22, 27 September 2009 (UTC))

(redent) I like the way your sandbox version is looking. One thing to mention. If you're ever planning on taking it through FAC, they have a new rule about using the highest quality sources. This basically means using books as sources. You might try adding some refs from GBooks if you're thinking of FAC at all. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 23:48, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes I have some in my sights already but can't get them online so I'm going to have to play the long game on that one and detail what I'm looking for on the talk page. (Emperor (talk) 02:28, 28 September 2009 (UTC))

Also I am just trying to hit the important examples and want to avoid people cramming every horror comic in they can think of - would it be an idea to start a List of horror comics for the completists to play with ? (14:33, 29 September 2009 (UTC))

Couldn't hurt. How about Horror comics in popular culture? ;-) - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 14:45, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

IPC articles are tricky beasts and always in danger of being stripped down and/or deleted. Equally the title would suggest it is for appearances of horror comics in other comics, TV, films, books, etc. and so would be potentially confusing. I suppose you could have a List of media based on horror comics for adaptations but I'd leave that for later (if ever). (Emperor (talk) 15:00, 29 September 2009 (UTC))

OK I'm going to be pushed for time for a bit so I'll just give that the once over and move it into the mainspace in the next few days. Anyone wanting to polish it up before then can do so now or wait. (Emperor (talk) 15:49, 3 October 2009 (UTC))

Righto it is now live at horror comics. If that seems to be OK on structure, I will take a look at science fiction comics and work on expanding it. We'll see how that goes and I'll then take a look at starting superhero comics with an eye to trimming down the section in superheroes. All comments and feedback are much appreciated. (14:41, 9 October 2009 (UTC))

Articles created by Marveljew

I am a bit worried by the articles created by User:Marveljew. Many of them seem to be about very obscure characters, failing our notability guidelines by a wide margin. E.g. Phalanx of Gloom, but also Thunderer (DC Comics), Red Eye (comics) or Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse (comics). Since many regulars here know a lot more about these comics, I bring these here for some discussion and opinions. Fram (talk) 06:50, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

• Looks like the odd prod wouldn't be amiss. I'm assuming good faith because they look like very pointed creations. Some of them could be merged somewhere, but we have such a backlog of articles to sort out I'm not sure at what point we'd have the framework to merge them too. Tag them up with everything you think they need tagging with, and take it from there. The info in them looks solid, at least. Hiding T 08:35, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

• • Three of those four have since been prodded by TenPoundHammer. His other articles have so far been left alone: Cosmic Bob, Legion of Losers, Chameleon Chief, The Seven of Hearts (comics), The Comet Club, Red Scare (comics), The Sultan (comics) and Radiation Roy. Fram (talk) 10:56, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

• • • I've redirected Red Eye (comics), Chameleon Chief, Red Scare (comics), The Sultan (comics) and Radiation Roy appropriately. Not sure what to do with the rest. I'm wondering if the problem lies with a lot of the navigational templates we have which list a lot of red-linked characters. See for example the list of characters in the info-box at Legion of Super-Villains. Hiding T 11:33, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure it'd take too long to put the structure in place to provide a target for such merges, we could do it with one merge and build up from there. We've both been owrking on lists of articles to be merged but it seems simpler just to get things rolling and have it as works in progress. So why not use this as an opportunity to start "lists of minor DC Comics characters" and "Lists of minor Marvel Comics characters"? (Emperor (talk) 20:04, 25 September 2009 (UTC))

You're the man for building lists in a room with just you and me in it. I have no idea how you do those nifty sortable lists. I was hoping to get all our articles assessed before I started on the list building, but they went and updated the damn software just as I had my teeth into it and so the AWB assessing plugin is currently broke. I'd managed to plough through 150 and now I'm really damn annoyed over it. Hiding T 20:34, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Alright. I'll be bold and start with the DC ones (as I don't have such a big list - we can box off the Legion of Supervillains too) and once I'm happy I'll start on the Marvel ones. The key to holding this together as it grows and splits are redirects so (and this is a note for me too) make sure they are categorised, make sure a note is left in the comments and don't update the links so they go direct to the section or everything falls apart. It would also be worth adding redirect class headers to the talk pages as that allows us to break these down by company (as the bulk of these are going to be DC and Marvel I'd imagine.

Things like the Legion of Losers is trickier but the same can be done, using List of Marvel Comics teams and organizations as a bare list to hold a comprehensive index and then "List of minor Marvel Comics teams and organizations" as a target for merging but you'd need to check and make sure there are enough to make a page worth starting (althouh for the Big Two I imagine it is but cheking first saves problems). (Emperor (talk) 03:38, 26 September 2009 (UTC))

Have we got a list started yet that I can get my teeth into? Hiding T 12:12, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry no I've been sorting a few things out. I'll drop a note in when it is moving along. (Emperor (talk) 14:07, 29 September 2009 (UTC))

Right what I'll do is sandbox a couple of quick versions of the Marvel and DC lists of minor characters so there is some meat to them and I'll move them out into the mainspace and sort out the redirects. That way there won't be any misunderstandings.

I'll start with the most obvious (those that are redlinks ot already redirects) but as we move up to those characters that have only hand less than a dozen appearances (and none of those major ones) we will want to think about transwiking them over to the respective Wikia sites. Anyone got an experience of doing that? Or any other thoughts? (Emperor (talk) 16:00, 3 October 2009 (UTC))

I used to transwiki to the annex, I don't know about other wikias, I think you need admin rights to transwiki, but it's been a long time. Hiding T 16:44, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Good find. No reason we can't parcel the information off to a few places. I was thinking default to Comics and then to the specific ones, which would be Marvel and DC for now but bearing in mind there is also ones for Dark Horse, Image and Vertigo but the main problem seems to the character bloat and you can usually make a decent stab at proving notability for a lot of comic books (if they are failing it is usually because they don't get as much love as the Big Two's main universes). (Emperor (talk) 02:08, 4 October 2009 (UTC))

From memory, Comics isn;t suitable/ I seem to remember they only wanted information about comic book issues which were at least six months old. Hiding T 13:41, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

OK I've mocked up a quick page on minor Marvel Comics characters, using characters who have had one or two appearances, or have been deleted or are empty redirects. It needs heavy editing to trim down the content (it is clear how much material is thread thinly across similar articles - The Tunnelers pretty much has exactly the same content as the stubs on their members (who have appeared in only one or two comic books) but it is an example of the lines I was thinking along. (Emperor (talk) 19:59, 11 October 2009 (UTC))

I thought you were going to do it with tables and sortable columns and all that. But on balance, I think this is probably the right approach, it's easier to edit for newcomers for instance. I had thought I'd redirected all The Tunnelers back to the team article. Next step is to go look at the redirect templates and categories, yes? Hiding T 14:04, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

It's worth noting somewhere that at least two of the Tunnelers are going to be resurrected as part of the "bring all the dead mutants back" Necrosha storyline. I forget which issue it was supposed to be, but the writers mentioned the characters Berzerker and Scaleface by name. BOZ (talk) 15:09, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that - the beauty of this approach is that if a character gets dusted off and promoted to a larger role, we can expand the section and split it off if need be. (Emperor (talk) 17:40, 13 October 2009 (UTC))

A table would really only work on the main lists of characters (and even then to make them sortable table they'd need to be in one big table which doesn't seem to allow you to jump down the page to the relevant letter). The minor characters are always going to be in a longer prose form and come under their own sections to act as targets for the redirects, so it doesn't count as tabular data (see WP:WTUT - in fact it is debatable whether they count as a list. (Emperor (talk) 17:40, 13 October 2009 (UTC))

Marveljew hasn't edited since September 6, but now we have the eerily similar User:Golem866... (e.g. Marveljew creates an article for the Phalanx of Gloom, and Golem creates one for Underwaterer, a member of that team). Perhaps best if people with more knowledge about American comics could keep an eye on this editor and/or discuss things (including WP:SOCK: creating a new account because your previous account has come under scrutiny is not so good...). Fram (talk) 13:21, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

• Worth watching, yes. Anyone know the rules on sock reporting these days? I give up halfway through filling in all the templates. Hiding T 13:41, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Perhaps we need to ask an admin ;-) Fram (talk) 19:23, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
    • Know any good ones? :) Hiding T 09:39, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
      • Well, there is one other good editor who has commented in this thread. If only he were an admin... :D Fram (talk) 10:04, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
        • I think the main problem is that they aren't being disruptive per se, they are just creating articles with weak claims to notability. I'm not even sure what the advantage would be for them to start a new account. However, it might be worth dealing with this batch and seeing if they stop editing and another editor pops up doing the same thing. You'd have established a nice pattern there, if the motivation is a bit trickier to work out. (Emperor (talk) 19:59, 11 October 2009 (UTC))

italictitle

I've noticed {{italictitle}} cropping up a few times, like Sweet Tooth (Vertigo). Is this something we want to give the big Comics Project thumbs up to? If so would it be an idea to build this into the comics title infobox (if possible?) - it'd mean we could turn it off with little effort. If we do want to do it then we'd want to do it properly and not in a confusing piecemeal way. Personally, I am struggling to care one way or the other. (Emperor (talk) 23:55, 28 September 2009 (UTC))

Actually was thinking about doing that when I got to running through the comics title 'box since it's the only one where it's a clear case of all the articles being titled the same as the comic book title. But it does boil down to "Why bother?" - J Greb (talk) 01:22, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes I think that is the issue - if you look at the templates talk page opinion seems split. However, if we have such a tool I don't see why we shouldn't use it if we use it consistently which might be why automatically including would be the way to go. (Emperor (talk) 14:28, 29 September 2009 (UTC))

True... and it does make it easier, if the practice of italicizing article titles is depreciated, to remove - 1 infobox vs 1500+ articles.

Follow up questions though - Would this be proper with the Korean/Chinese books? Graphic novels? And the "title" titled meta articles? - J Greb (talk) 22:29, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I think they work for everything that is a title in those cases. (talk) 13:05, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Anyone else got an opinion on this? (Emperor (talk) 22:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC))

Alright I see this has been implemented - seems to be working OK and there is no apparent clash with the existing template, although I have removed it from Sweet Tooth and it'd be wise to remove these from comics titles where you find them (partly so we can turn everything off in one go if needed). (14:43, 12 October 2009 (UTC))

Popular articles

The list hasn't been created on wiki yet, don't know why, but we can access it on the toolserver, see here. Am scratching my head with regards Deadpool, unless this isn;t unique visitors and there's a dedicated fan out there who has it set as homepage and is skewing the stats. Unless I'm just out of touch? Hiding T 09:48, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

• Discounting articles which aren't about comics specifically, but rather film adaptations and so on, these articles are all rated of low importance but are in the top 100 for page views:
• Raven (comics)
• The Surrogates
• Power Girl
• Black Lantern Corps
• Metallo
• Superman/Batman
• DC Universe Online
• Red Hulk
• Final Crisis
• Major Force
• David North (comics)
  • So what are thoughts on whether any should move up to mid importance? Although I think these stats are based on one day's data at the minute. Hiding T 09:59, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

• That is odd. I noticed since August most of the Deadpool article has been erased. Do articles continue to get as many hits, once all the information fans like to read is gone? Or does the trimming down mean less information there, so less reason for people to come back at times to read more? Dream Focus 10:15, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Deadpool is popular and has had three series running in parallel recently which shows Marvel think he is an important character who can sell a lot of comics (pretty much putting him up there with someone like Wolverine). The numbers might be so high because there is news trickling out about a Deadpool film but I still think it should be bumped up to High. A fan setting it as their homepage couldn't generate hits like that.

On the others listed The Surrogates is getting a lot of heat because of the film and BLC and Major Force because of Blackest Night, so their page visits are fleeting and we'd need to check back to see if they maintain this over the long run. Metallo and David North I can't explain (have we missed an announcement?) but it may be they, and the others on the list, are just pretty popular and deserve to be bumped up (for example Cyborg (comics) is at Mid so I think Raven should be too). Looking down the list I'd also suggest ] and Carnage (comics) should be considered, especially the former. (Emperor (talk) 13:51, 1 October 2009 (UTC))

I also went through and added importance ratings to some of the top 100 without them - both the Sin City and Iron Man films are pretty important as they demonstrate the potential of comic book adaptations when things might have been flagging and their success has really opened the door for other adaptations. (Emperor (talk) 13:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC))

Works for me. This looks like a useful tool, to be honest. Hiding T 13:56, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I've always assessed film adaptations as low -bottom. Looks like we may have some taking stock to do. Although with 1100 articles (it's dropping though, people should give props to User:GentlemanGhost) still to assess, I'd like them done before we start re-assessing. Anyone found the highest ranked un-assessed article yet? Hiding T 13:59, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I suspect few film adaptations have much importance when it comes to comics but some have - showing the viability of adapting comic books has a big impact as it has made the companies lock down their valuable IP, it has inspired more adaptations and there has been a mini-boom in people creating comics specifically with an eye on getting them made into films. So the first Christopher Reeves Superman, Tim Burton's Batman, Sin City, Hellboy, Blade, Iron Man, the first X-Men, Road to Perdition, History of Violence (the last two showing the way for non-superhero films as Hellboy and Sin City did) and possibly a couple of others have mid to possibly even high importance for the project. From Hell (film) and its ilk, not so much. I can't think of many video games (but I don't play them) but you might also include the 1960s Batman TV series in this.

I haven't yet found the highest ranked unassessed but have tried to fill in or tweak importance ratings when I've run across them. I think if we do this every few months or so we can spot the passing fads and those that are there to stay. (Emperor (talk) 23:19, 1 October 2009 (UTC))

Also

While we're on the subject, I was thinking of running the bot through and assessing all un-assessed importance articles as low. That would save a bit of time, and I'm thinking that if they were more important, they'd be assessed by now. They're mostly stubs that the bot assessed based on a stub template being present. Thoughts? Hiding T 14:02, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, sounds like an idea. It may also prod someone to upgrade it if they really object to such a rating. (Emperor (talk) 23:19, 1 October 2009 (UTC))

Conclusions

What conclusions are people coming to when they look at that list? And is it worth requesting separate lists for the task groups/work forces? Hiding T 10:20, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Recentism in fictional biographies?

I've noticed that most comic book biographies put a lot more detail into more recent events. I am going to write Northstar up for GA, and his 100+ issues with Alpha flight are covered in a couple of paragraphs, while every story arc since he joined the X-men has it's own sub-section, even when he had hardly any input (which is true for almost all his X-men activity). This is replicated in almost all the Marvel character's articles i checked, which is ok for newer characters, like the GA of Anole (comics), but is unwieldy for characters around for 30+ years.

Is there a guideline for this, or do we just use our common sense? I just wanted to check there has been no decision that we are following story arcs before rewriting it. Thanks.YobMod 13:41, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

• We should avoid recentism and we shouldn;t give undue weight to recent storylines as opposed to ones from 30 years ago. That some articles don't do this shouldn't indicate that the opposite is true. Articles should be balanced appropriately. Hiding T 14:00, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about most, but many articles do indeed go into very detailed descriptions of events from this past decade, while leaving out or glossing over things that happened in previous decades. Ares (Marvel Comics) is a good example; he spent 30+ years as a straight up supervillain, but you wouldn't know it from the current state of the article, or where it was two years ago before the "villain" section was expanded. 204.153.84.10 (talk) 15:15, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

That comes from a number of places. "This weeks comics" are readily available to editors, so it is easier to use them. There is a potential for more of the editors to be more interested in the current stuff - it's what they are buying or what the entered the character on. There is more "net friendly" resources focusing on the current stuff - interview archives pushing the past 5-10 years stories are more prolific than those for the 1970s, 1960, 1940s, etc. New movies/games turn the focus on the current stuff. And I think that covers it.

And we are going to come into some problems with this, and it's not just the characters.

Article bloat. Anole (comics) may currently be immune to this, but the longer the character is around, the more "story arc summaries" that will accumulate. At some point all the sections need to be deflated evenly. Northstar is the opposite problem, either the old end needs to be inflated, the "new" gutted, or some sort of mid-point needs to be enforced. And it looks like this is the direction that Batman and Robin (comic book) is headed.

- J Greb (talk) 22:16, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

It's unavoidable that people writing stories today will know more detail about the story they just read than early stories they only know by reading a brief synopsis from a "Marvel Universe" entry. Take what you can get and expand on early stuff if you have something to add. Mathewignash (talk) 22:26, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure "unavoidable" is correct. We as editors can remove or trim undue-weight recentism from articles, and through our examples and mentoring of newer editors help guide them into learning and following Project style guidelines and Wiki policies. "Tak what you can get" isn't generally a good way to go, since an encyclopedia needs its facts to be in context, and context requires that recent events be placed within the perspective of a larger framework. When Spider-Man revealed his real identity to the world, that's a status-quo-changing event that merits mention and explanation. "Spider-Man then battled Mr. Negative, Parkour, Menace, and the Chameleon, who briefly impersonated him, leading Harry to move into Aunt May's house, and creating confusion with Peter Parker's roommate" — not so much.  :-) -- Tenebrae (talk) 14:04, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. I have found that we have no problem with getting material on the major characters and titles from the Big Two, our job tends to be steering the articles in the right direction, making sure out-of-universe material is added, making sure the earlier material isn't out-weighed by new material and reducing excessive details. Equally these articles are going to be started anyway and it is always a good idea to keep an eye out for gaps in our coverage of older material (although I'm preaching to the converted there as that is one area you work on heavily, as do quite a few other members of the project). (Emperor (talk) 16:01, 4 October 2009 (UTC))

Another example is Mac Gargan. Compare how long the character spent as the Scorpion (40 years?) to how long he has been Venom (3-4 years?) and how lopsided the coverage is. 67.175.176.178 (talk) 23:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Comics/Notice board

I've updated the noticeboard so hopefully it will be of more use. I also found a vast number of requested mergers that people might want to look at, I've added them appropriately. Some of them look obvious, although actually not straight forward in the execution. I took care of the really easy ones, of course. Hiding T 22:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Good stuff - very useful. (Emperor (talk) 01:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC))

Great modifications! I like the detail, but still feels accessible. -Sharp962 (talk) 12:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC).

Is there anyway we could add from Misplaced Pages:Database reports/Pages containing an unusually high number of non-free files? - Sharp962 (talk) 20:00, 10 October 2009 (UTC).

Listing all the appearances of a secondary character?

If someone is a secondary character (ie, not someone like Batman or Spider-Man), is it okay to write about all of their appearances in their article? --DrBat (talk) 15:30, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

• I'm not sure I know what you mean. Can you clarify? Hiding T 15:43, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
• But probably not. Hiding T 15:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Like the Abomination article. Asgardian said it was ok with secondary characters. --DrBat (talk) 16:18, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I suppose it depends - some characters' appearances may all be worthy of mentioning. If it is merely "and he turned up and battle X. The he battled Y and went of to fight Z" then no, only mention the important appearances. You need to judge it on a case=by-case basis. (Emperor (talk) 20:34, 7 October 2009 (UTC))

Optional suggestion:

And so on through a full listing such as here

- J Greb (talk) 03:47, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

WP:NOT#DIRECTORY says we shouldn't just list them all without a reason. Characters without a lot of appearances may warrant a mention of every one, though. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:55, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

To a degree, I agree with that. What's happening though is that one editor is pushing forward with including all, or as many as possible, appearances being listed in the article text in both the Rhino and Abomination articles. The rationale boiling down to what looks like "It's important because the character appeared there". This is a 1/2 step compromise. - J Greb (talk) 11:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I'd rather avoid tables as much as possible and this seems like a solution to a problem that m that should be sorted out the old fashioned way. It may be that every appearance should be mentioned but it sounds like something we need to build a consensus on. For completeness sake we don't want to be trying to create a static version of the information databases are designed to do - it is the wrong tool for the job. (Emperor (talk) 13:22, 9 October 2009 (UTC))

I am sorely tempted to lock up both Rhino and Abomination for several days. It's just shameful what's been going on there lately. Can anyone give me a good reason to not do so? "I will discuss on the talk page from now on instead of edit warring" counts as a good reason, for example. BOZ (talk) 05:41, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Go ahead. --DrBat (talk) 05:52, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Boz, I'd go with that but... I'd also follow it up with watching the edit warriors during that discussion and after. Both know better and if they fall back into it, both should wind up with short blocks. And to be honest, both have seriously battered the spirit, if not the letter, of 3RR so badly at this point, blocks seem appropriate to allow others to sort out the articles. - J Greb (talk) 11:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree - it seems we may have to knock heads together to try to get people to actually talk things through. (Emperor (talk) 13:22, 9 October 2009 (UTC))

• Just a thought, but if another editor asserts something, get them to back that up with a Misplaced Pages wide policy or guideline. I don't think it is okay to write about all of a character's appearances just because that character is a secondary character. What makes the best article is what's most important, so look at Misplaced Pages:The perfect article and have a look at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Military history/Academy/Copy-editing essentials and especially the essays by Tony1: User:Tony1/Writing exercise box. We don't have a rule that says we will always mention every appearance, and I don't think we want a rule. We do want well-written articles, though, and an article is not a laundry list. Hiding T 11:10, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

  True... The above table templates are a stop gap, at best. I'd prefer including an EL to the character search results at either CBDB or GCD, preferably both. - J Greb (talk) 21:33, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Addendum

This topic has been mentioned at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#Banning specific editors from pages. Hiding T 11:16, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

That's all the "good reason" I need to stand down from my stance on page protection. Let's go with this and see how it works. I'm not a big fan of blocking editors, but at some point people need to learn that nonsense like this just doesn't fly. BOZ (talk) 11:53, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm only in favour of blocking when an issue becomes so disruptive. I don't like protection because it hurts everyone. Hiding T 12:07, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Agree with Hiding. While page protection can allow time for cooling off, it also fails to teach anyone how to do things correctly and cooperatively. Doczilla _STOMP! 18:16, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Page bans

DrBat (talk · contribs) and Asgardian (talk · contribs) have been banned from editing Abomination (comics) and Rhino (comics) for one month or until they resolve their dispute. Any edits to the page by either editor during this period will result in an initial block of 24 hours, escalating to a maximum of one month. Hiding T 12:04, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for sorting this out. (Emperor (talk) 13:22, 9 October 2009 (UTC))

Request for clarification regarding Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Asgardian-Tenebrae

Pursuant to the above, I have made a request for clarification regarding the above case at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification#Request for clarification: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Asgardian-Tenebrae. Hiding T 11:27, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Two comics articles up for GA

I just thought it worth flagging these two inc ase anyone wants to pitch in and help:

• LGBT themes in American mainstream comics
• Al Williamson

I have left a few thoughts on both pages. The latter really needs a photo for the infobox if anyone can find one (or find someone with one who might be encourgaed to upload it). (Emperor (talk) 20:36, 7 October 2009 (UTC))

Robotech needs reworking

I have put an comic book inbox can someone help to find the dates of when the comics were published Dwanyewest (talk) 01:36, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Link: Robotech (comics). (Emperor (talk) 14:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC))

The reason I ask is I from the UK and I only started watching Robotech in recent months its not famous here like other 80's toons like He-ma or Ninja Turtles so I thought somebody here might know better. Since there have so many comics publishers who have done Robotech maybe somebody can find the correct info better than me. Dwanyewest (talk) 23:58, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Meatwod

User:Meatwod is removing some of the overdetail from a number of "other media" sections of articles. While his intentions might be good, unless I am looking at it wrong, he's leaving some of these articles pretty mangled. 67.175.176.178 (talk) 04:24, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Life on Another Planet (graphic novel)

Hi! I just started the article Life on Another Planet (graphic novel), on the book by Will Eisner. I am sure you can help improve the article and find further sources. Thanks! --Cyclpia - 00:09, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Logicomix

I just restarted Logicomix, which was AfDed in April. As this was before its English publication in September and its hitting the NYT graphic novels best seller list it was pretty much doomed back then but I think I've had a good stab at proving notability and I imagine, given the press it is getting, that this will only grow but the core is there. However, I wouldn't mind a few eyes on it just to check it is OK for now. (Emperor (talk) 16:22, 12 October 2009 (UTC))

Carl Critchlow

Join the discussion! 67.175.176.178 (talk) 12:34, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

• Project-Class Comics pages
• NA-importance Comics pages
• Project-Class Comics articles of NA-importance
• WikiProject Comics articles
• Misplaced Pages pages with to-do lists