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WP:RfArb regarding West Bank vs. Judea and Samaria

I have started a Request for Arbitration regarding the use of northern/southern West Bank vs. Judea and Samaria. Since you have been involved in this debate, I have included you in the request.

Cheers, pedrito - talk - 25.02.2009 09:33

talkback...

Talkback

BigDunc 09:17, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard

Hi Elonka. I've asked that the Aubane reliability issue be revisited. Just letting eds who were involved in the initial discussion know its reopened. Best. RashersTierney (talk) 23:29, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Juice Plus and User:Rhode_Island_Red

Would you please cast an eye over the Juice Plus article when you have time? Over the past months several editors without a history of editing there (including a couple who were rather unrestrained in their criticism of RIR) have commented on the negative tone of the Juice Plus article. Recent attemps to amend the paragraph on folate and homocysteine response have been met by stone-walling and editor denigration (accusations of SPA, meat/sock puppetry and COI have been made) from RIR. I think it may be time for another review of this article - I don't wish that on anyone but the situation is untenable as it stands. Please take a look. I'm posting this on Shell's page too). Many thanks. --TraceyR (talk) 07:36, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The Lost Symbol

Would it be possible to semi-protect this article? The too long plot section is primarily being restored by IP editors. Yworo (talk) 23:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Move wars

Thanks for your interventions at Trevor Thompson (Northern Irish footballer) and Bobby Campbell (Northern Irish footballer). I've restored the articles to their original titles. The onus is on those wishing to move them to go through the RM process. Mooretwin (talk) 00:14, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

While I'd expect an Admin to know this, Per Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons Editors must take particular care adding biographical material about a living person to any Misplaced Pages page. Such material requires a high degree of sensitivity, and must adhere strictly to all applicable laws in the United States and to all of our content policies, especially:

• Neutral point of view (NPOV)
• Verifiability
• No original research

Now how does the player describe themselves? Do they describe themselves as Irish or British? We are not intrested here on how others describe them, but how they self identify. Northern Ireland as opposed to Northern Irish is at least WP:NPOV in the absence of any referenced sources when BLP is concerned. On the subject of Northern Ireland a high degree of sensitivity is required. Northern Irish is not and never has been a nationality. --Domer48_'fenian' 23:38, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

The players are from Northern Ireland. One played for Northern Ireland. Northern Irish is a footballing nationality. It has its own team. Mooretwin (talk) 23:41, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Wowsers, just call'em British. Thank goodness, Thompson doesn't self-indentify as a martian. Otherwise, Trevor Thompson (Martian footballer) would look rather funny. GoodDay (talk) 23:52, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

"Northern Irish is a footballing nationality." Maybe the Admin can explain, but football is not a nationality. Now I've outlined our policy above on BLP please edit accordingly and there will not be a problem, however as of now I suggest you provide the sources that would be needed. --Domer48_'fenian' 23:59, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

On another note, Elonka could you possibly address your concerns to these edits and edit summeries? They contain personal attacks, in addition to incivility and also assumptions of bad faith. . If you were to leave them a post you'll nedd to post it more than once. If there was a serious push to address such things I would most definitly insure to the best of my ability that I would not over step the mark on any of them. However, if these policies are used in a slective fasion it is very hard to take them serious. --Domer48_'fenian' 23:59, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

IMHO Elonka, the BLP articles should be using British for those born post-1707 & post-1922 (in the case of Northern Ireland). GoodDay (talk) 00:06, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Whee, okay, let me try and answer a few of these:

1. I am probably not going to be able to personally monitor every Ireland-related article on Misplaced Pages.
2. WP:BLP is indeed an important policy, but it doesn't immediately apply to every single detail on a biography, it is mainly concerned with negative information. For other disputes, normal dispute resolution procedures may be more appropriate
3. If there's a clear case to move an article to another title, file a request at WP:RM. If other uninvolved editors agree, the article will be moved. If the consensus is truly obvious, then there may be a case for moving other articles that fall under the same rule. It may even be worth adding something to one of the naming guidelines. Is there any consensus precedent for this "Northern Ireland / Northern Irish" debate?

--Elonka 00:19, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

(Jogging my memory) I believe there was a discussion (which I was involved in) at WP:BLP, concerning the usage of 'Northern Irish'. I believe we chose from Northern Ireland as a neutral usage. GoodDay (talk) 00:24, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

To be clear, I have no preference what the title is, but I do have to ask, is it even necessary to specify nationality in the disambiguation tag? Why not just "Footballer"? --Elonka 00:26, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

We've got a Trevor Thompson (footballer) article. GoodDay (talk) 00:28, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Could it be disambiguated some other way? By birth year, or which team they're on? --Elonka 00:30, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Yep 'birth year' is how we handle at the Ice hockey articles. But, neither Thompson article shows a 'brith year'. GoodDay (talk) 00:33, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

I got (through external links), howabout moving Trevor Thompson (Northern Irish footballer) to Trevor Thompson (b. 1936)? GoodDay (talk) 00:35, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

The simple rule of thumb is how the persons self identify. In the absence of a source, we use Northern Ireland. I agree Elonka "Why not just "Footballer." Northern Ireland Footballer is, in the absence of a source per WP:NPOV and inline with WP:BLP. Members of my famiely are from the north of Ireland, and to call them northern Irish would to them be very offensive. --Domer48_'fenian' 01:19, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

There's already such an article, the English fellow Trevor Thompson (footballer). -- GoodDay (talk) 01:24, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

For me to get into the middle and invoke BLP, I would need to see some reasonable indicator that this was genuinely an urgent matter. For example, can anyone provide a link to a source, that says that "Northern Irish" is a pejorative term, and that the politically correct version is "Northern Ireland"? If not, then I still recommend going through WP:RM. Get some uninvolved opinions into the mix, and then once there's a clear consensus, there will be a solid precedent to use for other similar cases. --Elonka 01:28, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Okie Dokie. GoodDay (talk) 01:30, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Another fucking edit/move war created by Mooretwin, how much time do we all have to waste on this every week!? He knows using "Northern Irish" is frowned upon and causes BLP and NPOV issue but he just does it to stir shit up and has admins like Elonka to support this bullshit. Just because you are from Northern Ireland doesnt make you Northern Irish, anyone with even the smallest bit of knowledge of the situation would know that - like GoodDay said use the year of birth as is done with others.