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Revision as of 21:30, 15 November 2009

Põhja Konn

Põhja Konn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a highly suspicious account, don't you think? Just take a look at his contributions; almost all of them are reverts. Furthermore, he reverts in almost exactly the same articles where Digwuren and other list members revert. Possibly he is a sockpuppet of one of the list members. Do you have time to investigate this and maybe post something about him at ArbCom pages? Offliner (talk) 16:17, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Posted about him here: . Offliner (talk) 16:39, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Andora1

You said that this is possibly also a sockpuppet of the WP:EEML cabal members. Could you post some evidence why you think this is a sockpuppet at the ArbCom page? It would be nice if this one would be checked as well. I don't have time to look for evidence right now. Offliner (talk) 10:52, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm much more positive that Pohja's done a sock's job at present. (The guy only edits articles where team members are active, and 90% of the time when they need help against their opponents–when he ain't asleep .)

(On a side note, also very interesting to see just now is the case of this strange IP: .) Andora1's editing has been so poor and tendentious that he can probably be blocked without SPI, but he's far less of a disruption to the normal process than Pohja and his loaded ad hominems at Lihula, for instance. Anti-Nationalist (talk) 20:18, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think the IP is Jacurek (I think Jacurek has a different location?) I agree about Konn and Andora1. Offliner (talk) 03:24, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the IP is 99.9% Jacurek, though he denied it (I should have been more clear on this page, but this was the thing I meant here.)

Seems that SPI is the ticket. Anti-Nationalist (talk) 16:53, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Shocked and dismayed

I am pained that you accuse me of Holocaust denial . You refer to this edit of mine (when I was editing before getting a login). As should be clear from my post, what I found absurd was the suggestions that only 40 Poles were responsible in the massacre. This absurd lowering of the number of participants is one of the lines pushed by certain Polish nationalists and this is what I objected to. Clearly I believe that the massacre was perpetrated by Poles, as is clear by this diff which you conveniently managed to ignore .

Given that Holocaust denial is one of the most grave accusations that can be issued against anybody, I expect you do to 2 things.

• 1. Apologize to me and retract your accusations.

• 2. Find every single Misplaced Pages discussion page where I have been accused of Holocaust denial and issue a retraction. Sourcelat0r (talk) 20:33, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, I deeply appreciate your prompt apology. On my part, I will try to write with more clarity in the future so that my sentences taken out of context do not cause confusion, as was the case here. Some of my comments on the Jedwabne pogrom article were somewhat emotional, I admit, but this is a deeply painful matter and can easily generate hasty and ill formulated comments which one regrets later. Sourcelat0r (talk) 21:09, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Relocation of EEML evidence

Just a notice: For a few users I have relocated your EEML evidence to a sub-page.

The reasons for this are because your sections are now so long it was becoming impossible to navigate and decipher who wrote what, particularly towards the end of sections. This effectively rendered your evidence as unusable, which was not a good thing.

Rather than reduce the size of your evidence (which I deemed as unfair) I have removed them to private subpages. These are yours and yours alone to edit. They certain make interpreting your evidence MUCH easier.

The downside is that when you update your evidence it does not go into the history log of the principal evidence page. Hence I suggest you add a brief "Updated evidence on ..." note beneath your evidence heading on the main evidence page. This will alert people to changes on your subpage. An extra bit of hassle I know, but it a small price for having evidence which can be understood.

Also feel free to create a single sentence description of your main headings and insert it on the main page below the link I have added. See for an example from a previous case.

I hope none of you are upset by this - I assure you my only objective was to increase the usability of your evidence.

Sincerely, Manning (talk) 22:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Matters unrelated to the EEML case

Regarding your recent posting at the EEML case, I have stated my talk page is open to anyone wishing to discuss any edit. Next time, please try that first before engaging in histrionic protests at inappropriate venues. VЄСRUМВА 19:41, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I feel it is very much related to the EEML case. If I didn't, I wouldn't have brought it up, and bring it up I did. I thought that ArbCom was actually examining the conduct of the participants as part of looking into the case. I am still hoping that this is true. Anti-Nationalist (talk) 19:45, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I rather thought and hoped the same. I suspect, though, that the end results we have in mind are at odds. The talk page invitation still stands. VЄСRUМВА 20:13, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Since it is all related per yourself

As I can't assume you're watching my EEML evidence page I'm notifying you of this. VЄСRUМВА 17:51, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. My question about Lia was an earnest inquiry, but since you're expecting a tit-for-tat, I guess I'll properly indulge this crap by doing my best as far as mentioning the obsessive smears against Liz Holtzman on pages that have naught to do with her, which you've engaged in. Anti-Nationalist (talk) 17:55, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

If you mean Holtzman stating Latvians are Nazis, I have no apology. I was there when she said it. Were your inquiry earnest, it would have been stated in an earnest fashion expressing concern, not wondering about coverups and the Australian public being unaware of said coverup. And had it been stated in an earnest fashion, it would have been responded to in kind. In the future, please avoid couching earnest requests in terms which can only be taken as innuendo (if not outright accusation) and there will be no need for these unpleasantries. VЄСRUМВА 18:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

You obviously didn't comprehend what I just wrote there (my wondering about Looveer and why her career in Nazi Germany was publicized), and I ask that you stay off my page if you're going to come with accusations of bad faith from now on. Anti-Nationalist (talk) 18:11, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I corrected my remark on talk about her son "having no need to hide" Looveer's Nazi affiliation, thank you for pointing out my oversight. (It didn't materially change my response.) That said, I think we can agree that constructive dialog between us is not possible at this time. VЄСRUМВА 18:18, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Nazi-Soviet rapprochement

re: Dingzin Zhao website

The external link was added because the general unreliability of China's official sources of information might lead people to believe he is not a reliable source. Would you object if I re-inserted it?

I will cite the page re. the Chinese govt's fears about immediately repressing the demos. This was a statement by an interviewee in the study, but the context of its inclusion was such I felt justified in phrasing it as I have done. The ref was already in a few lines down the pgf -- I didn't want to clutter the pgf with duplicate references. Dduff442 (talk) 14:40, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Lia Looveer

Please stop using the talk page for a blind search of "nazi collaborators" on wikipedia. I hope you'd realize the inappropriateness of such actions on wikipedia in general. Also, please consider changing your username to something more appropriate for editing wikipedia that would not be a dubious political statement. FYI in a week or so the username "Anti-Nationalist" is going to be listed at WP:UAA. Thanks for understanding!--Termer (talk) 02:50, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I think that's rather unseemly and tendentious, Termer. Please go to the appropriate noticeboard if you feel that my question about Looveer's life doesn't belong in the discussion. Anti-Nationalist (talk) 19:33, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi, this has created some controversy and 2 people have blanked the section as they feel it disparages the subject. Do you have any more to add regarding Nazi collaboration? I intend to blank that section but if you have more to say I will hold off. James086 07:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

talkback

GedUK  11:55, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

GedUK  08:32, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Notification

I have responded to your charges of anti-Semitism here.  PЄTЄRS VЄСRUМВА ►talk  00:21, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Username

You may want to consider changing to another username. Others may consider your current moniker to be offensive, which is in violation of Misplaced Pages's username policy. Furthermore, if you wish to revert to your old username, PasswordUsername, I'm sure that Misplaced Pages admins will be happy to assist you with password recovery or resetting your password.radek (talk) 05:57, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

• I don't think my username is offensive to anybody: whom might it offend, Radeksz? I'll consider asking the admins about recovering the account after the ArbCom, since I'm already involved under this username and it's not particularly smooth to keep changing that back and forth. By the way, if I want to be called Anti-Fascist because you're bothered by Anti-Nationalist, is that OK? Will you or someone close to you be offended and find it a hateful user name? Anti-Nationalist (talk) 18:07, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that given that you get into lots of arguments and fighting with all sorts of people, you are using the username to imply something about your content opponents - you're using the username to make an implicit personal attack that if you made explicitly you could get in potential trouble for.

Note also that the name can be misinterpreted; "Anti-Nationalist" as in you're very "Anti" a particular "Nationality". This is particularly true given your edit history and some of your more infamous edits. In that case, that would also be offensive.radek (talk) 21:12, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Then you probably would like to see User:Neutrality banned as well... After all, his opponents might believe that maybe, maybe it implies... I don't see how "anti-nationalist" might mean that someone is against a particular nationality. I'm not against any particular nationality. I'm very affable towards everybody. Anti-Nationalist (talk) 01:37, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Me. It offends me and it is certainly a "hateful" username. Please read some articles such as Ulster Nationalism, Irish Nationalism, British Nationalist Party, and don't change it to Anti-Nazi or IHateNazis or anything even like that, thanks. If you must try something political yet non-offensive try stuff like SaveTheWhales, WarmingSucks or SlaveryBlows... do not try stuff like WeWonTheWar, IWantToBombEasterIsland or DruidsAreAllTerrorists... Nationalists are not only welcome in Misplaced Pages, they are nessecary, but do not try NazisAreWelcome either... I hope have said the right things here. I have no business on your page. I have not seen your edits anywhere or anything like that. Perhaps you are trying to make the username IDontLikeMyOwnCountry... Best of luck to you ~ R.T.G 22:35, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Re: "Nationalists are not only welcome in Misplaced Pages, they are nessecary". Since nationalists, as a rule, tend to push local POVs, I believe their contribution into Misplaced Pages is more negative than positive.

With regards to the username itself, it applies serious obligations: by choosing this name Anti-Nationalist implicitly took an obligation to oppose all nationalists, not only Central Europeans, and not only anti-Communists. Otherwise the danger exists that the user working under the Anti-Nationalist nick will attack some nationalists from nationalistic positions. To demonstrate my point, let me remind you that some contemporary Russian (or Russian speaking) editors are equally (or, maybe, even more) nationalistic.

My conclusion is that it is a little bit arrogant to choose such a username, however, I see no problem with it, provided that, but only provided that Anti-Nationalist makes every effort to satisfy its strict requirements.--Paul Siebert (talk) 23:14, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Partly agree. The current situation is as if I made an account under "Anti-ReligiousFanaticism" and then proceeded to make a series of provocative and controversial edits to articles on, I dunno, Methodists. What you're saying is that it'd be ok, if I also made provocative and controversial edits about Anglicans, Roman Catholics, Sunni Muslims, and various forms of Hinduism.

I agree that nationalism can be a serious problem on Misplaced Pages. So is vandalism. But just like users used to call each other "vandal" over straight up content disputes until the admins cracked down on such practice (per personal attacks), so now some people go around calling other editors "Nationalist" simply to smear those who disagree with them. The username embodies this sad practice.radek (talk) 23:21, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Re: "The current situation is as if I made an account under "Anti-ReligiousFanaticism" and then proceeded to make a series of provocative and controversial edits to articles on, I dunno, Methodists." Not completely correct. All "provocative and controversial edits" should be avoided because they make your own point weaker. However, even if Anti-ReligiousFanaticist is an absolutely correct and polite editor, but he restrict himself with criticism of anti-Methodists only, he thereby implies (wrongly) that everything is ok with Anglicans, Roman Catholics, Sunni Muslims. Therefore, intellectual honesty requires him to either change his name to Anti-Methodist, or to widen the scope of his criticism. Obviously, the last option is preferable.--Paul Siebert (talk) 23:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, provocative and controversial edits should be avoided anyway, but they should be especially avoided by usernames which appear to be provocative and controversial themselves. The obvious best option is to change the username to something neutral and avoid provocative edits.radek (talk) 00:00, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I agree that by choosing this name Anti-Nationalist a priori dubbed his future opponents "nationalists". However, a more preferable solution would be to decrease a level of opposition rather than to change the name and to continue in the same vein.--Paul Siebert (talk) 00:06, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

For me the username "Anti-Nationalist" is a form of a declaration: "This user tries to avoid baseless accusations in nationalism". Frankly, the more users will make such a declaration, the better.--Paul Siebert (talk) 00:06, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Except that supposed declaration is exactly the opposite of what the user does.radek (talk) 00:25, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Of course, to make such a declaration and to follow it are two separate things...--Paul Siebert (talk) 00:46, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Paul, you are correct. The username "Anti-Nationalist" is indeed a form of a declaration. With regard to RTG's spontanteous comment, I should say that I am already familiar with Ulster Nationalism, Irish Nationalism, and the British Nationalist Party, all of which I oppose, as I don't see any inherent value in "nations" as such. "Nationality" and "country" are both terrible ideas. Anti-Nationalist (talk) 01:25, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Anti-Nationalist, the only thing I cannot understand is the following: both you and Radek seem to be quite reasonable persons prone to dialog. It seems to me that in your disputes truth lies somewhere in the middle. Why cannot you make a step towards each other?--Paul Siebert (talk) 03:34, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. I noticed that your username, "Anti-Nationalist", may not meet Misplaced Pages's username policy because you shouldn't use political slogans or statements as your username in the interests of peace, harmony and wikilove. If you believe that your username does not violate our policy, please leave a note here explaining why. As an alternative, you may ask for a change of username by completing the form at Special:GlobalRenameRequest, or you may simply create a new account for editing. Thank you. Misplaced Pages promotes a neutral point of view. ~ R.T.G 01:34, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Hello. I searched for where in Misplaced Pages:Username policy it states that statements in usernames, political or otherwise, are incompatible with any policy, but I could find nothing. Could you please quote that document? Are you, incidentally, aware of any policies that prohibit userboxes? Anti-Nationalist (talk) 01:52, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I didn't even have to scroll down to find "Offensive usernames are those that offend other contributors, making harmonious editing difficult or impossible." Your username claims that you are offensive towards nationalists. Do you believe your username is any more offense than say, User:Bob or User:Harry? Do you intend to edit articles with an anti-nationalist agenda? That is against the NPOV guidelines. You shouldn't run yourself down that road even if you expect to be disputing content with nationalists... you shouldn't intend to, should you? ~ R.T.G 02:07, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

A bit more bluntly, you are not allowed to exlude nationalist content or editors from the wiki without exceptional reasons. Is your username going to be harmonious with a nationalist editor? ~ R.T.G 02:09, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

By claiming that he is a nationalist the editor declares that he is biased, and, therefore, his contribution into WP can hardly be positive. In that sense the name "Anti-Nationalist" is no more offensive than "Anti-Vandal". My only criticism stems from the fact that Anti-Nationalist targets mostly EEML's members (although not many of them are pronounced nationalists), whereas other nationalists working in closely related areas seem to be ignored by him.--Paul Siebert (talk) 03:29, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Hello, Anti-Nationalist, and thank you for contributing to Misplaced Pages! Misplaced Pages has a policy on what usernames editors can use. Unfortunately, concerns have been raised that your username may be incompatible with that policy. You can contribute to the discussion about it here. Alternatively, if you agree that your username may be problematic and are willing to change it, it is possible for you to keep your present contributions history under a new name. Simply request a new name here following the guidelines on that page, rather than creating a whole new account. Thank you. --Termer (talk) 06:19, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you change it to "Anti-Hitler" or "Anti-Axis" or even "Anti-Nazi"? I would have nothing further to discuss with you then... ~ R.T.G 00:36, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

labeling editors with nationalist tag

Hi Anti-nationalist, it has been suggested that the matter , should be reported to WP:ANI. Before doing this however I wish to give your a chance to fix it and rephrase those and any other related remarks you may have made on Misplaced Pages pr Comment on content, not on the contributor. Thanks!--Termer (talk) 21:30, 15 November 2009 (UTC)