Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 08:02, 27 December 2005

Old talk

This List of Poles includes a number of persons, who were not born in Poland, were not Polish and did not speak or write Polish language.

This statement was removed from the list. Answer to rmherman

Misplaced Pages has far too many misstatements and false statements in the area of peoples and lands , which are situated east of the Oder and Neisse rivers and thus were put under Polish Administration, as Harry Truman called it. It has been tried numerous times, to correct the mis-information on all these articles, but that only leads to either name-calling or vicious attacts. Therefore this writer will not get into discussions.

wikipedia is in that regard seriously flawed and leads one to suspect, that perhaps the publication of massive misinformation ( plus the numerous copiers) is on purpose ??

Johannes Hevelius, (1611-1687), astronomer

Was a Polish Astronomer born in Gdansk Poland who served under King Sobieski I beleive he should be added to the list.

I wonder if he was of German decent, or was Polish.Vancouverguy 04:22, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

He was Polish and was the first Pole elected to the elected to the Royal Society in 1664.

http://www.nd.edu/~dharley/HistIdeas/Hevelius.html http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=41189

Stop Changing the Proper Changes Vancouverguy.

The "polish" bit in the Brittanica article seems to be the Polish translation of his name. The other article does not say (at least at a glance) if he was Polish or German.Vancouverguy 04:31, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

He was born in Poland and is just as Polish as Copernicus, If copernicus is on the list then so should Hevelius.Kommiec 04:33, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

This site lists him as German and this site lists him as Polish but possibly of German origin. The notions of what is today Poland and what is today Germany didn't exist in the 17th century. Most sites avoid the controversy by simply stating that he was from Danzig/Gdansk. If it is not clear that he is Pole perhaps he shouldn't be on the list. InanimateCarbonRod 04:42, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

The Original Information was taken from Britannica in 1911 when Gdansk was Danizg(Current Britannica lists Gdansk,Poland) your first site seems to be a public domain site and it cant be credited. 12.243.94.55 04:46, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Is there such a thing as a German Pole? Or a German of Polish descent? I mean, can't a person be both? --Uncle Ed 02:43, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

In answer to Ed Poor's Questions, Yes, in Germany there are people, known as Polen-Deutsche (Germans from Poland), there are also Deutsch-Polen (German Poles) and a number of other variations.

Also, the first name(s) of a person identify him as German, even if he has a Slavic last name (sample: Wolfgang Lipinski, if his parents wanted him not to be German, they would not have baptised him Wolfgang or he would have changed it later). To classify anyone as Polish, who spoke German, was baptised with German names, lived in a German language community, is plain absurd. Dec 15 2004

Copernicus (D), Fahrenheit (D), Hevelius (D), Mandelbrot (F), Ulam (US) and Zamenhof (RUS) were not Poles, even though some of them were born in Poland? Stop the edit war!

In the last days I got the impression, that someone tries to change the Polish history. Copernicus (D), Fahrenheit (D), Hevelius (D), Mandelbrot (F), Ulam (US) and Zamenhof (RUS) were not Poles, even though some of them were born in Poland (in case of Zamenhof im not sure). I recognised it also in the Silesia or Silesian language discussions and now famous french or german people suddenly became polish. 82.82.126.128 14:48, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Zamenhof was born in Bialystok (since 1918 in Poland). He was Jewish and invented new language to avoid such considerations. ;)

--212.76.33.68 05:34, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Copernicus was both Polish and German. Ausir 09:35, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Was Copernicus Polish?

Was Copernicus Polish? In my opinion he was Prussian (german). 82.82.126.128 15:15, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Please read first the discussion about the nationality of Copernicus. Copernicus and his father, were Polish citizens. Copernicus' nationality AM

Copernicus definitely was German

Here a Copernicus statement from 1529 (Hermann Kesten):

"Wehe dir, armes Preußenland, daß du für eine so schlechte Verwaltung nun büßen mußt!- Wenn hier nicht bald Abhilfe geschieht, dann wird Preußen bald nur Münzen besitzen, die nichts als Kupfer enthalten. Dann wird jeder Handel mit dem Auslande aufhören. Denn welcher fremde Kaufmann wird seine Waren für Kupfermünzen verkaufen...? Einem solchen Verfall des Preußenlandes sehen die Machthaber ruhig zu; sie lassen unser liebes Vaterland, dem wir alles verdanken, dem wir unser Leben selbst schulden, durch kopflose Nachläßigkeit, von Tag zu Tag mehr, kläglich untergehen!"

In this text Copernicus says, he is Prussian. And Prussia, of course never was Polish. Copernicus had Silesian parents (in those days German).

Silesian maybe. But they lived in Krakow. Prussia had nothing to do with Germany.

AM

Being Prussian doesn't mean he was German...Prussians were Slavic and had a Slavic language before being absorbed by Germany and adopting German, were they not? In the 15th century I don't think that had happened yet, had it? (I don't really know.) Adam Bishop 15:24, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Answer to Adam: A common 'mistake' often printed in English-language publications Prussians were Slavic and had a Slavic language? No- Adam Bishop, that is completely wrong. Prussians were not Slavic, the language was not Slavic at all.

Difference between Prussian German and native Baltic Prussian

While the nationhood of Germany did not offically exist at the time, there was peoples of the Holy Roman Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/Holy_Roman_Empire) who believed themselves to be of German ethnic background. Also the Austrian Empire had peoples who defined themselves as German. From what I have read on Misplaced Pages.org, Copernicus was either ethnic Polish or Prussian-Baltic. There needs to be more discussion of being ethnic Polish on former occupied terrorities of Prussia terrorities and of the Baltic native Prussians. http://en.wikipedia.org/Prussians. Since, under the Misplaced Pages article on Prussia, it seems that the native Non-German Prussians spoke a language that was not German but a Baltic language related to Lithuanian and Latvian. "The name Prussia derives from the Prussians, a Baltic people related to the Lithuanians." http://en.wikipedia.org/Prussia Informationguy

Copernicus definitely was not German

A common 'mistake' often printed in English-language publications Prussians were German and had a German language? No, that is completely wrong. Native Prussians were not German , the language was not German at all. It is Baltic"The name Prussia derives from the Prussians, a Baltic people related to the Lithuanians." See above.

Stop the edit war!

The slavic Origin of Prussia has nothing to do with Poland. Prussia became german long time before Copernicus. And, Copernicus spoke german. Even he would have spoken polish. Poland didn't exist in those days. Germany, too. Therefore he could be called Prussian, but not Polish. Therefore a Copernicus in a List of Poles is wrong. I think it is undoubtable, that Fahrenheit, Hevelius, Mandelbrot were no Poles. Please stop the edit war! 82.82.126.128 15:30, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

About Copernicus

In the days of Copernicus, Poland did definately exist http://en.wikipedia.org/Poland. While there were many separate German states, and Germans living in the Holy Roman Empire and Austrian Empire, there was no unified Germany, but there was a Unified Poland. It should also be noted that Copernicus did speak several languages and terrorities that formely belonged to Poland were passed to Prussia and vice sa versa. Therefore, he belongs in a List of Poles, and you can also make a List of Prussians: Baltic Prussians, Polish Prussians, German Prussian, Polonized Baltic Prussians, Germanized Baltic Prussians. It is very important to remember the native Non-German Baltic Prussians. Informationguy

The list included also people born in Poland. I don't think we should care too much, about origins of people, if they were creative and had a chance to work in Poland or outside Poland.

In some cases people were born in what is Poland since 1945, but was German or Russian before.

Every reference to Copernicus I have ever seen except on the Misplaced Pages has said he is Polish. This includes the Encyclopaedia Britannica, see . Markcollinsx 15:41, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

And the same source counts Fahrenheit as German, see . This edit war is rediculous. andy 14:43, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

However, Fahrenheit signed Royal Society as Fahrenheit Polonus. Self declared Polishness should end the quarrel.

In those days Poland didn't exist. He was Prussian, Prussia was a part of German Empire. He spoke German, and, as I posted above, he said, he was Prussian. Perhaps he was not "German", but he was not "Polish", too. 82.82.126.128 15:49, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

He lived 200 years before the German Empire and was never citizen of Kingdom of Prussia.

Please read some history, before trying to fix an encyclopedia!!!!

Why are "North" and "South" Pole not listed here?? orthogonal 21:51, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

It is a ridiculous quarrel. My misterious User: 82.82.126.128, you are crazy! From your point of view there is no Americans: all are of foreign origins. Better, accordnig to your point of view Heine was not German (Jew) and kings of Great Britain are Germans. And Germans living east of Elbe are not Germans (are mainly of Slavic origin). As well as President of Slovakia (Rudolf Schuster). It is ridiculous, is not it?

Faranheit and Hevelius were born in Poland (Danzig belonged to Poland in XVII and XVIII centuries (from 1466 to 1793). Faranheit never lived in any German state! The French regard Maria Curie as French and the British regard Joseph Conrad as British (they were ethnic Polish born in Poland) and there is no problem for me. I would like to ask you to shut up, and start spoil the Misplaced Pages somewere else. Regards,

von Fiszman

I don't really want to get involved in an edit war, but isn't a catagory entitled Bad guys a bit POV? Gentgeen 09:31, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Schopenhauer was a German philosopher; never a Pole; was born German parents in the then Prussian city Danzig which for centuries was German as German can be.

1. Obviously, Schopenhauer was an ethnic German and German philosopher. But in 1788 Danzig was a part of Poland (untill 1793). Cities of Danzig and Thorn refused to join Prussia in 1772 and remained in Poland till the Second Partition. Poland at that time was a multiethnic state (Poles, Ruthenians, Jews, Germans and many other ethnic groups). As far as I know Germans consider many famous people of non German origin born in Germany as Germans (for example Einstein). 2. Schopenhauer opinion was that seizure of Danzig by Prussia in 1793 was a tragedy for this city.

User:Yeti

I removed this from the article: "This list includes a number of persons, who were not born in Poland, were not Polish and did not speak or write Polish language." However added it, please discuss your specific objections on the talk page so we can decide if certain names need to be removed to make it more accurate. Rmhermen 19:24, Jan 20, 2004 (UTC)

While he wasn't nearly as controversial as Kaminski or Dzierzynski, if the header of Bad Guys was changed to Controversial persons, shouldn't Kuklinski be included under that cathegory? He definitely was a controversial person. Ausir 22:14, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I think that listing him as a controversial person is rather disputable. Kpjas

Well, he is described as controversial even in his own article...Ausir 22:25, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I removed the name of Mr Adamowicz from the page. I do not think he is so famous that he should be included in the list of famous Poles. It is ridiculous to place there every local politician. Yeti 10:09, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Missing Poles

Why are North and South not included in this list? This is pure latitudinal discrimination, and I for one am deeply offended! -- orthogonal 03:21, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Polish Americans

Many Poles who emigrated to America (and England) altered the spelling of their names. It seems appropriate to list the names that they adopted and became notable under. Specifically, Helena Modjeska, who changed her name from "Helena Modrzejewska." Should Pola Negri be moved to "Barbara Apolonia Chałupiec"? Should Joseph Conrad be listed as "Teodor Józef Korzeniowski"? Cheers,-Willmcw 10:44, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Polski Słownik Biograficzny

Tnx to the help of dr Marek Jerzy Minakowski, the list of people mentioned in the giant Polish Biographical Dictionary is here: List of Poles from Polski Słownik Biograficzny. Or will be as soon as I can figure how to convert ~25,000 entries into a Wiki-readable format. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 12:53, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

• Done. I am not moving it here as the descriptions are in Polish. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 10:24, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Four questions

• Did chemists Hoffmann and Reichstein really get Nobel Peace Prizes?
• Might Edward Stachura fit better in "Literature" rather than in "Philosophers"?
• Why do some categories (e.g. Music, Literature, Philosophers) give birth and death dates, while others don't?
• Why are some categories named by field (e.g. Music, Literature) while others are named by practitioner (Philosophers)? logologist 01:16, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Don't hold your breath waiting for answers. If you see a problem, be bold and fix it. If anyone disagrees then we can sort it out later. Cheers, -Willmcw 03:43, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Lukasiewicz the philosopher

Why was Jan Łukasiewicz (1878 – 1956) expunged from the roll of Polish philosophers? His article states: "He also pursued philosophy, approaching the human aspects of scientific theory-making with ideas similar to those of Karl Popper." logologist 00:37, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

List in Polish

We should find some notable Poles from this list and translate their biographies: http://pl.wikipedia.org/Kategoria:Polscy_lekarze

Some of the reds are on that list too.

Pesky's Pole

I was just wondering, but should Pesky's Pole get a mention here too?

==Konrad Wallenrod" Konrad Wallenrod was Lithuanian. Someone was sleeping during classes... ;-)

-]  01:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

in the List?

Henryk Lipszyc

Franz Jakubowski

see also talk:List of Polish Jews

--User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg/sig 12:08, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I added him to both lists.--SylwiaS | talk 15:44, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

thank you!!(by Sheynhertz)

RfC on User:Antidote

User:Antidote aka User:HotelRoom, who has arbitrarily deleted several people from this list, is subject to a request for comment for repeated violations related to lists by country and sock puppetry, please see Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Antidote.--Pecher 13:42, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

A new maroon... The persons were Polish Jews of course. And what? According to this point of view Heine, one of the greatest German poets is not supposed to be listed on the list of famous Germans and Leśmian one of the greatest Polish poets is not Polish. Moreover, there are no Americans or Australians as almost of of them are of "foreign" descent. C'mon man... Find yourself a new toy. Yeti 21:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Page Deletions

Territories frequently change, and hence, peoples of a particular affliation are sometimes born in a territory of another nation. The Germans of the Sudetenland were not Czechs, but they lived in the Czech Republic (or back then Czechoslovakia). Similarly, many Prussians/other Germans/Russians were born in the territory of Poland but were not Polish by any notable standards. If a territorial change occurred between Russia and Mongolia, the Russians who happen to live in Mongolia after the change are not in any way Mongolian except by territorial birth. The deletions that occurred here were not arbitrary, and those that did not make that much sense, were readded. Therefore, continuous reverts on this page to include these people can only be seen as a point trying to be made by USER:Pecher. Antidote 21:55, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Your argument, which goes along the lines of "who is Pole" or "who is Czech", misses the point of the list. The summary on top of the artcle says: "This is a partial list of famous Polish or Polish-speaking/writing persons, or persons born in Poland." Therefore, anyone who meets the above criteria should be on the list, whether or not they meet your definition of Pole.--Pecher 22:17, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

A simple solution to that would be to revise the heading. Honestly, nobody comes to a List of Poles to look for Prussians or Russians. Putting them on here is being a bit too politically correct. Antidote 23:20, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

No solution is required because there is no problem. At least, from the point of view of all editors, except Antidote.--Pecher 15:14, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

There is a problem that needs to be assessed. Assuming it is not a problem just because many are not concenred with it is a bad method to go by. You cannot just ignore others input as you have been doing. You are just as stubborn as I in many cases, perhaps more. Antidote 18:17, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Mentioning Partial Ancestries and Polish Jews

I don't see why it's necessary to mention someone as Polish Jewish on this list, considering Polish Jews have been assimilated into the populace for centuries. I do understand the tags designating those who are only born in Poland, but it seems pretty much counterproductive when all that needs to be done is to change the header and most of these people will not have to be included. 72.144.68.229 08:02, 27 December 2005 (UTC)