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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning JettaMann

User requesting enforcement

Hipocrite (talk) 18:32, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

JettaMann (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Climate change probation

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. Blatent violation of WP:BLP - "a Misplaced Pages arbitration committee found him guilty of violating a number of Misplaced Pages rules" - not true. This went on at the beginning of an RFC on the talk page, which has hardly even begun.
2. . Over-the-top BLP violation - "I don't think this individual has any notoriety of any kind, other than for being caught for various Misplaced Pages editing infractions. That's pretty much all this page should say about him is that he was a Global Warming activist who got caught gaming Misplaced Pages."

Diffs of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. 10-day block by Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) with note "I would strongly recommmend when you come back from the block, even if you haven't been banned by then, you should tread very carefully in that area or preferably choose to avoid the field altogether, because if you continue behaving like you did you will most likely incur more sanctions."

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Perminant topic ban, along with ban from all biographies of living persons.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This is exactly the kind of "user" that makes dealing with these articles impossible.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

The requesting user is asked to notify the user against whom this request is directed of it, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise.

Discussion concerning JettaMann

Statement by JettaMann

Comments by others about the request concerning JettaMann

I disagree that second diff violates BLP. This seems like something better handled via a disruption route rather than being specifically related to the Climate change probation. Prodego 18:37, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

This is a slightly unusual case in that the target of JettaMann's comments is both a BLP subject and a Misplaced Pages contributor. As such, I think the no personal attacks and civility policies are clearly applicable here. The claim that WMC is a "Global Warming activist who got caught gaming Misplaced Pages" strikes me as both a personal attack and a highly incivil comment that displays a battleground mentality - none of which should be encouraged. I would suggest closing this with a firm warning that any further incivility will result in blocks. -- ChrisO (talk) 19:31, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

JettaMan was blocked for 10 days by User:Future Perfect at Sunrise on December 10 for "disruptive tendentious editing and personal attacks on Talk:Climatic Research Unit e-mail hacking incident". After the block expired he made one edit, a less than civil comment aimed at User:William M. Connolley, on December 22, before making the edits in question. Guettarda (talk) 21:14, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I am inclined to agree with ChrisO; these are incivil and battleground-like edits, though not so problematic by themselves that they require immediate sanctions. A final warning should suffice in this case. (Disclaimer: I have participated in that same content dispute during the past few days, after learning about that article through my OTRS work, though I have made no other contributions to climate-related topics that I can recall.)  Sandstein  21:25, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Jettamann seems to have a modest but blame-free record of editing on other matters, but severely problematic behavior on the subject of global warming. He was blocked for disruption last month and as soon as he comes back he's already engaging in some pretty serious attacks. I suggest a warning that he faces a topic ban if he acts disruptively again. We could use this otherwise productive editor on other parts of the encyclopedia where his feelings do not overrule his judgement. --TS 00:48, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I've sent the following note to Jettamann by Misplaced Pages email:

I'm contacting you by mail because you haven't edited English Misplaced Pages since 17:34 GMT on January 4th and since then a Misplaced Pages editor has filed an enforcement request concerning your recent edits on the article William M. Connolley and its talk page. A notification was placed on your user talk page at 18:34 GMT on January 4th.

A provisional remedy has been posted by an admin with a suggestion that you should be given up to 48 hours to respond before the case will be closed. Discussion is ongoing. You could be topic banned from articles related to William M. Connolley.

Please see the discussion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:General_sanctions/Climate_change_probation/Requests_for_enforcement#JettaMann

--TS 12:54, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

• I agree with Tony and with the proposal below but there is a small issue of a total non-interaction ban with William as they are more or less bound to cross paths at some point. Could we please clarify whether, if both users happen to turn up to an article, both are permitted to comment on the article content? Guy (Help!) 15:53, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

They can edit the same articles, but JettaMann should not comment on WMC. Comment on the content, not the editor. If JettaMann is wise, they will put a fence around this restriction and not go anywhere near WMC for a while. Testing boundaries usually ends badly. Jehochman 15:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Adding: I will take a dim view of any baiting or goading of JettaMann by WMC. When an editor is restricted, others have a moral obligation not to encourage violations. Jehochman 15:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Since I've had absolutely no interaction with this user for longer than I can remember (indeed I can't recall any; anyone care to trawl back far enough to find any such interaction?) I find this "warning" gratuitously offensive William M. Connolley (talk) 16:15, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I am not in any way involved in Climate Change articles. If Jehochman is going to comment here or in other science-related matters (eg WikiProject Mathematics, where he has posted a link to his Masters degree in Computer Science), it might be an idea in future if he made sure that he had some familiarity with the matter on which he is commenting. At the moment his comments give the rather worrying impression that they have been made at random without forethought. This is extremely unhelpful. If he cannot stop this and in addition appears to have his own personal issues with William M. Connolley, then it probably is not appropriate for him to involve himself on this page. More administrators are needed to make these new procedures work smoothly, but not those who cannot stop themselves making comments that are at the same time clueless and offensive. Please redact your comments, Jehochman. Mathsci (talk) 14:17, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree (less angrily) with WMC. We don't ask BLP victims not to have contact with their abusers in other circumstances. If WMC were to start needling this (almost certain never to return) account, there would be no need to warn him at all - just block WMC till he stops. I don't see anything in my (not WMC, who has had zero involvement with this user to date) request asking for anything about WMC the editor, rather William Connolley the Living Person who was defamed by wikipedia in violation of WP:BLP on an article under general sanction. This is not about editor interaction, it's about editing an article disruptively. Hipocrite (talk) 16:30, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually, Hipocrite, we (FSVO we) do exactly that. For well over a year now I have been a victim of an intermittent campaign of harassment which has included nuisance phone calls, posting of private data on the internet, visiting my house and posting observations on the internet and so on. This has lost the abuser two ISP accounts, but the police response is to avoid the venues where he arrives to abuse me; in practice this means I am being asked to accede to his demand to stop using several sites and forums because he dislikes my opinions. I was there first, he arrived solely to harass me, but the advice from law enforcement is to walk away and emphatically not to respond to him. Guy (Help!) 21:56, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Clearly you live in a backwater country still ruled by a girl. You raise a good point. Hipocrite (talk) 22:04, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see how either of the quotes provided above are bannable BLP violations. The first - "a Misplaced Pages arbitration committee found him guilty of violating a number of Misplaced Pages rules" seems true. Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abd-William_M._Connolley found that he used admin tools while involved (Findings of Fact #14) and that he edit warred (Findings of fact #14-1 and #14-3 and Remedy #7). It is a violation of WP:V in that it isn't sourced, but it's hard to argue that adding a true statement to an article once merits a ban. The second is questioning the notability of the subject on a talk page. This is commonplace and, while it is a bit harsh and could be viewed as a personal attack, I don't see how it merits a ban either. Is there conduct other than these two diffs? I am also concerned that disallowing a user to interact with WMC is in effect a topic ban because WMC edits such a wide range of global warming pages. I think the appropriate thing is either a warning or a topic ban of limited duration. Oren0 (talk) 01:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I guess I'm a little late for my own case here. Wasn't even aware it was going on actually. I would add to OrenO's comments that the first supposed infraction of mine had several references to leading newspapers such as The National Post. This was referenced, and as OrenO notes, it was also true. The second supposed infraction was merely a talk page comment asking what makes this William Connolley person eligible for his own Misplaced Pages entry? As I said then, Idon't see anything notable that he has done. There does seem to be a small cabal of AGW activists who really go after people with a vengeance using Stalin-like methods, and that's all this looks like to me. JettaMann (talk) 17:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

The non-interaction provision is clearly not going to be practical if they are allowed to edit GW pages. No one can edit GW pages without crossing paths with WMC and this provision allows one-sided sniping, regardless of whether there is a history of such sniping or not, which is obviously unfair. The sanctions should be symetric in this regards. --GoRight (talk) 04:08, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning JettaMann

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Provisional result: JettaMann is indefinitely topic banned from all pages related to William Connolley, broadly construed, and interaction banned from User:William M. Connolley. I don't see evidence here sufficient to topic ban JettaMann from all Global Warming pages. The previous 10 day block was immediately followed by personal attacks and violations of WP:BLP, per the evidence cited above. Just because somebody edits Misplaced Pages their biography does not become a free fire zone. Please keep this thread open until JettaMann comments, or until a total of 48 hours have passed from the initial filing, and then log the sanction, notify the user, and close this thread. In this case indefinitely means until suitable explanations, retractions and assurances are provided to ensure that the objectionable conduct will not recur. Jehochman 03:12, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Support all provisions of this proposed result. ++Lar: t/c 14:17, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Also support all of proposal. --BozMo talk 22:31, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Thread closed, ban enacted. If JettaMann chooses to lodge an appeal, please take into consideration that they have not edited since shortly before this request was opened. Notification. Log. - 2/0 (cont.) 05:09, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

, . Blatent, and obvious. Hipocrite (talk) 02:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Why is H not using the prescribed template given that this involves a single editor? Also, I note that it is possible that the editor in question may not be aware of the WP:1RR restriction since they are not listed in the notifications table, . Frivolous and vexatious use of this venue to engage in WP:BATTLE? You decide. This is the fourth such request. I was warned after 1. Some neutrality of enforcement, please? --GoRight (talk) 02:53, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Blocked 24 hours in the course of investigating above. There is an editnotice that displays every time anyone edits that page. If they make a credible appeal, I would not object to an early unblock - this is not a frequent flyer here. - 2/0 (cont.) 03:00, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Hipocrite notified Dcowboys3109 six minutes after the first revert, nearly four hours before the second. I was over that way anyway, so I have added this to the log. GoRight does raise a good point, though - the log of notifications is there to serve as a collective memory. Right now the probation is new enough that it is easy to see a notification in the talkpage history and the main participants in the topic area were also active at the community discussion, but this set of procedures should be futureproof inasmuch as possible. - 2/0 (cont.) 07:20, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

There is no need to use undue formality when the violation is sufficiently obvious William M. Connolley (talk) 08:18, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

User:Hipocrite seems a little fast on the trigger in requesting enforcement, and doesn't always do his homework. --Pete Tillman (talk) 23:27, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Immediately this move took place disruptive editing against Hansen's ideas occurred by the two anti-Hansen editors above (William M. Connolley and Arthur Rubin) at the 'carbon tax' "Kyoto Protocol" AND 'biosequestration' articles. I would like to appeal the transfer of this enforcement dispute to the biosequestration talk page. We are clearly dealing with an attack on Hansen's ideas in multiple aricles.NimbusWeb (talk) 19:04, 17 January 2010 (UTC) William M Connolley has now attempted to remove the entire paragaph (with over six references) with Hansen's ideas about carbon sequestration at coal plants from the biosequestration article. This was after a recent edit by me attempted to clarify by highlighting use of algal biosequestration at coal plants in the Garnaut Report immediately above the Hansen ref.NimbusWeb (talk) 19:43, 17 January 2010 (UTC) ARthur Rubin has now attempted to remove the same fully referenced paragraph from from the biosequestration article. How can this sort of disruptive editing be allowed to occur? These editors are providing no justification fro rmoving this material, but by simultanous attack they are making it hard for me to keep it in the article (although it is directly on point) without having to constantly revert them. Help, this is unfair.NimbusWeb (talk) 20:02, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Calling WMC an anti-Hansen editor is absurd. In addition, it's not fully referenced and it wouldn't be relevant, even if referenced, as noted on the talk page. Please continue the discussion there, and don't edit against consensus. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:14, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Conclusions are reached on the basis of evidence available. All that is necessary is to examine the edit history of you two in relation to Hansen comments. 'Absurd' is just an irrelevant appeal to a negative emotion. Why should you assume that your point of view represents consensus, especially when what you are trying to do is remove referenced material and make ideas hard to understand? The discussion board has been used extensively to try and prevent your disruptive edits. It appears to have failed. Higher level scrutiny is now requiredNimbusWeb (talk) 20:19, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Absurd is quite correct. WMC has added other Hansen comments to other articles, where I consider them problematic in terms of relevance, although not as bad as this one. Furthermore, this (and other comments) constitute a severe WP:AGF violation. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 21:15, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Kyoto Protocol, Carbon tax, Biosequestration

• Kyoto Protocol (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Carbon tax (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Biosequestration (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Administrator attention to recent very acrimonious edit warring on these articles might be merited. --TS 19:09, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Noted. I won't edit again unless consensus can be obtained somewhere unless any of the parties reports a clearly improper edit reason. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:11, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

If all involved will similarly down tools pending the achievement of consensus, no further action will be necessary. --TS 20:20, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, it appears I was forced to break my assertion. Tags indicating my concerns as to why NW's edits were inappropriate were removed. It seems to me that removing tags without a clear consensus to do so, or a previous discussion leading to the conclusion that the tags were inappropriate then, is disruptive. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:55, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree provided the disruptive edits on 'biosequestration' 'carbon tax' and "Kyoto Protocol' can be reverted to where they were before this blew up.NimbusWeb (talk) 20:23, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Using that argument as a pretext to carry out further edit warring, as you have just done , is rather inflammatory. --TS 20:30, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

But TS-look at what they did at 'carbon tax' they replaced the words 'carbon sequestration' at coal plants with 'sequestration' at coal plants-making the idea unintelligible. Sequestration of what? Carbon? Well why not say it-except that it creates an unpalatable precedent for teh coal industry. Why should that sort of disruptive editing be allowed to stand indefinitely. This is why formal dispute resolution should commence here. This is not a small issue for the coal industry NimbusWeb (talk) 20:35, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Beware the curse of Plaxico. --TS 20:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Beware editors that have retainers from the coal industry to make sure ideas requiring them to sequester carbon as a condition of operating never see the light of day.NimbusWeb (talk) 20:58, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, I'm requesting enforcement. NW is now over 3RR, despite warnings about 3RR. I've reported this at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:NimbusWeb_reported_by_User:William_M._Connolley_.28Result:_.29. However it would be desirable to deal with it here William M. Connolley (talk) 21:11, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

WMC? Retainers from the coal industry? I think the coal industry is libeled by that statement. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 21:17, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Note: NW has now removed the 3RR warning, and the notification of the AN3 report from his talk page with the edit comment "minor edit". I don't think this looks like good faith any more William M. Connolley (talk) 21:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm fully aware of the warning but think it should be applied to WMC and AR. Please note I placed a similar warning on WMC's talk page which he also deleted. Such editing is allowed on your own talk page. So let's get this right. You two gang up and start deleting whole paragraphs of referenced material on Hansen's ideas (see biosequestration-policy implications section) and making them unintelligible (replacing 'carbon sequestration with 'sequestration). This is despite the sections being changed being fully justified on the discussion page. Particular references include Hansen writing in his open letter to Obama and his book that power plants need 'carbon sequestration'. You allege that can't refer to algal biosequestration despite Garnaut amongst others specifically making that connection. When I try to stand up to your disruptive editing you invoke 3RR and try to bully me into submission. You call me a 'noob' claim I am 'spamming'. I'm the editor who is trying to write sentences with full references. You two are the editors who are trying to delete them or make them unintelligible. It will be interesting to see who is censored and no doubt also somewhat revealing about the internal administration at wikipedia and how this climate change probation system works and who runs it.NimbusWeb (talk) 21:48, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

It will be interesting to see who is censored - I *think* you mean censured. In which case, we've now got an answer: you William M. Connolley (talk) 14:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I have been asked to review recent editing and conduct issues relating to the above, by Tony Sidaway

It is my conclusion that Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs), NimbusWeb (talk · contribs) and William M. Connolley (talk · contribs) are all in violation of Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Climate change probation, relating to edit warring (I am not concerned with the technicalities of 3RR or team tagging) and WP:NPA (again, I am not concerned who is the most egregious practitioner). If I were not of the opinion that any short sanction would simply pause the continuation of these violations I would have sanctioned all three named editors for 24 hours, so no "advantage" may accrue to either side of the dispute. Under the circumstances, I am now warning all the above editors that any infraction of the Climate Change Probation by any party will result in a 72 hour block for all three - possibly disrupting the other WP activities of all concerned. I would ask Tony Sidaway to notify me of any infraction, although I would comment that I shall take sole responsibility to the blocks imposed, after notifying the parties concerned and reviewing any response/appeal. While drastic, I feel my actions are permissible under the Probation and are designed to impress upon the editors the necessity of keeping within the restrictions. The above will apply as soon as Tony Sidaway agrees to referee the application of this warning. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:53, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. Everybody be nice, please. --TS 22:57, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Your (crossed with TS, so to be clear: LHVU's) non-neutrality in this is obvious; your ignoring a blatant 3RR violation is also obvious William M. Connolley (talk) 22:57, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

<facepalm> --TS 23:18, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree with LHvU and TS. If AR and WMC disagree with what Hansen is saying or writing then non-disruptive editing should see them inserting referenced criticism of Hansen's ideas and not simply trying to delete them or render them unintelligible wherever reference to them appears. What's going to happen if they team up to launch another attack on Hansen's ideas later?NimbusWeb (talk) 23:49, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree with WMC, except as to the obviousness of LHvU's non-neutrality. (Note, this is a rare occurance; don't take it as a trend.) Ignoring a 3RR violation after warning while censuring 1RR "violations" made without warning of 1RR is questionable. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 00:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Please don't make this more bloody than it need be. All three of you got into an out-of-control edit war across three articles. Less Heard van U is giving you the chance to knock it off and handle it the Misplaced Pages way. This doesn't make him biased. All of you have to stop engaging in personal attacks (you know who I'm referring to here) and all of you have to stop edit warring (and that applies to all). NimbusWeb has far less experience than the other two, so Please do not bite the newcomers applies. Now be nice, all of you. --TS 00:22, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I would like the {{syn}} and related tags that I've added restored pending discussion of the material. It seems obvious that the tags are at least nominally appropriate, and there certainly isn't consensus against the tags. In fact, a previous version of Hansen's comments were previously removed from one of the article per consensus at one of the notice boards. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 00:41, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Those tags were clearly disruptive given the talk page of the article has extensive discussion in which multiple editors have attempted to answer AR's pedantic and disruptive views on Hansen's use of the word "biosequestration' instead of the synonym 'carbon sequestration'. Reinsertion would only reopen the dispute.NimbusWeb (talk) 01:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

There was no "discussion", only IPs' arguments that it's important, but without even assertions of relevance. Hansen never said "biosequestration" or "geosequestration", and doesn't appear to have said "proportional", so those words should not be in the articles as Hansen's opinion unless sourced to others referring to Hansen's comments. In fact, on one of the articles, the section was previously removed as not being sourced, per comments on one of the noticeboards. It's still (mostly) not sourced, even if it were relevant. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 01:24, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

To TS, above. I don't think he's technically a newcomer, as the questioned paragraphs had been inserted by IPs for about a month previous to the creation of NW, and he takes credit for the "arguments" made by those IPs.

And (to NW) "carbon sequestration" is not "biosequestration". — Arthur Rubin (talk) 01:36, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

The IPs could the same user - all from AU hosts, two from Sydney, two from Canberra. Similar styles too. Ravensfire (talk) 01:47, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

The sentences AR and WMC seek to either delete or qualify have direct quotes where Hansen expresses the idea that coal-fired power stations should no longer be approved or allowed to operate unless they have what he terms 'carbon captture' or 'carbon sequestration.' Both these quotes are referenced-to Hansen's Open Letter to Obama and to his book. So the question for AR is what does Hansen mean by 'carbon capture' or 'carbon sequestration' at power plants. It can only mean geosequestration or algal biosequestration. There are no other alternatives currently being debated in the scientific literature. Clearly this is what Hansen is referring to. What else could he be referring to when he uses the terms 'carbon capture' and 'carbon sequestration' in relation to on-site use at coal-fired power stations? Answer that. There is a reference to Garnaut discussing algal biosequestration at power plants in the sentence above. This is another attempt at disruptive editing. Claims that only one editor is opposing AR and WMC are also clearly ploys to attack process rather than deal with the substance of the dispute.NimbusWeb (talk) 02:04, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps if you weren't continually attacking those with whom you disagree, they'd be more motivated to address your points. You are new to Misplaced Pages but not so new as to be unaware of the No personal attacks policy. Please address the arguments and not the person. --TS 02:10, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

OK. I apologise. But isn't the claim above my most recent entry above a personal attack on me?NimbusWeb (talk) 02:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

If you remove the references to biosequestration, including the paragraph in that article, and replace it by carbon sequestration, then almost everything would be sourced. ("Proportional" still isn't sourced, possible, or likely to be relevant.) The relevance and undue weight would still be subject to discussion, but I'd probably stay out of it. Deal? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 02:21, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

It wasn't intended as a personal attack; if you did edit under those IPs, and if those IPs were warned of inappropriate behaviour (which I don't remember doing), then you are considered to have been warned. But I'm willing to work with you in cleaning up the unsourced sections. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 02:23, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

AR, I believe it is reasonable and still maintains the sense of what Hansen is arguing to replace the word 'biosequestration' the two times it appears in the Hansen paragraph in the biosequestration article with "carbon sequestration'. I'm relying on your good faith in agreeing to this. I order that the agreement not be violated I suggest that either TS or LHvU make the changes. It still seems unusually pedantic to meNimbusWeb (talk) 02:36, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

It's not just the biosequestration article; it's in all the places it's been added. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 05:59, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Utterly bizarre

This is utterly bizarre. There is an absolutely clear 3RR violation by NW, correctly reported, and we have a pile of admins (yes I know you're watching) saying "la la la I can't see it". Regardless of the article probation, that should lead to a simple block on NW. TS is saying "This is a train wreck" - no, it isn't. This is a very simple situation which had it been handled in the normal way would have caused no problems at all William M. Connolley (talk) 08:19, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

It appears that there is sanity in the world after all: William M. Connolley (talk) 11:04, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

If I gave the appearance of being very indulgent towards NimbusWeb, it's because I was--and deliberately so. He gives all the appearance of being a sincere and relatively inexperienced editor. I would have liked to see the content dispute resolved without the need to block him or anybody. My efforts were directed towards restraining the edit warring tendency to which, as a newcomer of little experience, he easily succumbed.

There was a suggestion that he might be the same editor as some of the IPs who adopted a similar stance and tone. I haven't investigated but I wouldn't be surprised if that were true. If so I think he should be commended and applauded for registering an account and thus giving all of his edits a single name. This fellow is obviously not here to cause harm but to fix what he perceives as an error in Misplaced Pages's coverage of biosequestration. He has made some accusations and attacks, but that is not perhaps surprising since he has probably read such attacks on related talk pages and may well have convinced himself that such conduct is acceptable.

This isn't to excuse his attacks or edit warring. He has had an opportunity to learn some of our community norms, and has failed to do so. But his errors are those of a beginner. He commits the beginner's solecism of characterizing edits he disagrees with as "disruptive" (some newcomers misuse the word "vandalism" in a similar context). I had hopes that you would both be prepared to back off and give the fellow some breathing space, which would have made your words arguing against his edits all the more persuasive and permitted him a glimpse of how we do things (at least, on a good day) on Misplaced Pages. --TS 11:35, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

NW had all the hallmarks of a very overenthusiastic beginner who was not going to listen to any warnings. And indeed that is exactly what happened: he got plenty of warnings, and deleted them all (which in fact is *not* the hallmark of an inexperienced editor, so there is a little puzzle there, but never mind). However, all those warnings were from me, doing my humble duty in sharing the meaning of wiki. But perhaps he dismissed them as blustering from an involved party. Arguably, he *might* have listened to a strong warning from you or LHVU that breaking 3RR was not acceptable and he needed to self revert (let alone pay some attention to the article probabtion). Alas you, and more particularly LHVU, declined to do this, instead preferring "a plague on all your houses" type warnings, which NW mistook for license to ignore my valid warnings. I would hope that you, and more particularly LHVU, might take a lesson from this: being excessively soft on overenthusiastic noobs does not do them any favours in the long run William M. Connolley (talk) 12:33, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

WMC deleted the warnings I placed on his talk page. He doesn't refer to that. I guess he lives to different rules. He claims there were 'more like 15 articles' which is a blatant three fold exaggeration designed to impugn my credibility. Hopefully the real lesson the wiki editing community learns is to watch the edits of AR and WMC very closely particularly in relation to Hansen's ideas that 1) on-site carbon sequestration should be a legal operating condition of coal plants and that 2) coal, gas and oil should be taxed and the dividend returned to people at a rate depending on their carbon footprint. No doubt also, more objective editors will see through what is going on here. Why do AR and WMC turn up in certain articles only to remove or distort comments Hansen has made? Who knows, my favoured hypothesis is that they simply don't like the way Hansen dresses. But if there are senior editors in wikipedia who are allowed to go around deleting whatever referenced sentences they feel like on dubious excuses which we have seen in this dispute like links are dead (when they are not), people aren't notable (when they are), precise words aren't used (when the meaning is otherwise clear) etc etc, then expect the rest of us to play catch up and seek consensus before reverting them, those senior editors should only get such privileges if they are prepared to disclose their actual identities to an internal wiki hierarchy and have any conflicts of interest fully disclosed. Otherwise the ongoing credibility of the system will be in jeopardy. This will be particularly important in areas where the coal or pharmaceutical industries or, religious organisations, multinational corporations or political parties are likely to view wikipedia as a form of advertising or campaign promotionNimbusWeb (talk) 10:12, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning William M. Connolley

User requesting enforcement

mark nutley (talk) 22:24, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

William M. Connolley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Climate change probation

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. First Revert on 19:08, 17 January 2010.
2. Second revert on 20:15, 17 January 2010. Mistake, not under 1R rule
3. Two reverts in under 24 hours in breach of the probation.
5. ...

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warning by William M. Connolley (talk · contribs) This diff is just to show WMC was well aware of the probation.

1. ...

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

{{{Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)}}}

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Topic ban for a minimum of 48 hours on all articles currently under the probation.(putting this here as in preview this does not appear above in the enforcement section)mark nutley (talk) 22:24, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning William M. Connolley

Statement by William M. Connolley

I'm baffled. What does an edit that happened 11 days ago at Rajendra K. Pachauri made by MN not me have to do with me? (or indeed this ? Has MN fouled up his diffs, or am I missing the point?) William M. Connolley (talk) 22:34, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Also, I'm missing and an explanation how these edits violate it from MN's diffs. This looks just like pointless disruption on his part William M. Connolley (talk) 22:38, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Fixed the wrong diff, sorry about that. look to the left of that one and you will see your revert. Hope this clears up your confusion.

What are you on, old fruit? Your current #3 points to , which is an edit by you; and your #4 points to which is an edit by GR. Both of them are antique, and I don't think you'll now be sanctioned for them, but I really can't see *why* you're bringing up your previous poor edits, and those of GR, in a complaint about me William M. Connolley (talk) 22:49, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Are you unable to move your head or eyes to the left of your screen? You can clearly see your reverts, two in under 24hrs. I had not realized that ten days made something antique. But lets wait for the admins to decide that one. --mark nutley (talk) 22:55, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

If you want anyone to take this seriously, you need to give diffs of *my* edits, not someone else's. Fix them and I'll pay attention. At the moment this bizarre request has two struck out diffs and two meaningless diffs William M. Connolley (talk) 09:36, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Done, however the original diffs did show your reverts so i fail to see how it`s a problem. mark nutley (talk) 10:02, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Well done, you got there in the end. Why is 2R an intrinsic breach of probation, though? The article isn't under 1RR sanction, and the edits were extensively discussed on the talk page. And this is all ancient history - why are you bothering? William M. Connolley (talk) 10:19, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your condescending words. The pachauri article is under 1R is it not? I was brought to book for it at any rate, either way you were edit warring and the discussion on the talk page was most certainly for it`s inclusion. However that is not an argument for here is it. --mark nutley (talk) 10:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

If you don't want to be condescended to, I suggest you stop making quite so many mistakes. "The pachauri article is under 1R is it not"? Good grief, have we got all this way and you really haven't even bothered to check? The page header gives no hint of a 1RR restriction, neither does Misplaced Pages:General_sanctions/Climate_change_probation/Log#Log_of_sanctions William M. Connolley (talk) 11:09, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning William M. Connolley

Unless this article was specifically under 1RR, this is inappropriate. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 22:27, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I was under the assumption that all the article tagged with the probation were under 1R --mark nutley (talk) 22:46, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

You are mistaken. 1RR has to be imposed by an uninvolved admin on an article-by-article basis and logged at Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Climate change probation/Log#Log of sanctions. It is not automatically applicable. -- ChrisO (talk) 22:51, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Well you're wrong, aren't you, cos if you were right the article probation would say so William M. Connolley (talk) 22:52, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

No i`m not, it does not say that on the pachauri talk page, just the same article probation notice as everywere else. I have struck those diffs as i appear to have made a mistake. --mark nutley (talk) 23:05, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• There seems to be no indication of a 1RR restriction on this article. The request appears to be malformed: diffs 1 and 2 show two very different edits by William M. Connolley, diffs 3 and 4 are ten days earlier and showed mark nutley apparently reverting twice within 24 hours, arguably edit warring. As amended after I wrote the above, diff 4 now shows GoRight reverting, and perhaps ironically accusing William of edit warring. Clarification needed, but tacking two edits from 6 and 7 January after two edits from today looks stale. . . dave souza, talk 22:53, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• I should like to point out that diffs 3 & 4 with regards to me were already dealt with here. And even though it was brought up in that enforcement request WMC was not sanctioned, so no it is not stale. I have been reading up on how to actually do one of these things as i messed up the last one so badly. Is there a time limit on infractions? First and second diffs, my mistake, i assumed all articles under the probation were 1R only. So i will withdraw them now.

• I'm frankly baffled as to what this complaint is all about. I don't see evidence of a violation, even if we make the assumption that the listed articles are under the 1RR restriction. Furthermore, the disputed text appears to be an obvious piece of synthesis. Since this synthesis relates to a living person, it might also fall under the auspices of WP:BLP; therefore, the reversion of original research pertaining to a living person wouldn't count toward any sort of reversion restriction. Looks more like a case of gaming the system on the part of the reporting editor to me. -- Scjessey (talk) 22:58, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm disappointed by the complaint and the response. This is classic battleground behavior. Over the course of a few hours, a content dispute has grown into trench warfare, with no chance of consensus or resolution. Please, everybody, look at LessHeard vanU's warning above, and take it to heart. Drop the attitude and step away, all of you. --TS 23:17, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

What the hell is going on here? why is there a content dispute in the middle of this request? If it keeps up i would ask the whole lot be archived, what a mess. mark nutley (talk) 23:27, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I have collapsed that portion of the thread above. Please keep the disputes separate.

Sanctions are imposed to prevent current disruption to the project of building a free high quality encyclopedia, not as indefinitely enforceable traffic infractions. The section above may contain evidence that a sanction on WMC would be warranted, but at least for now I really like LHvU's idea. Please keep discussion of that issue at the appropriate thread, though. Since there seems to have been some confusion at the outset here, perhaps this thread could be archived with encouragement to MN to prepare a new request? It may be helpful to read Help:Diff for advice in preparing the links in such a way as to facilitate easy review. - 2/0 (cont.) 08:39, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks 2/0 but to redo it would seem pointless, it has been pointed out above that using diff`s over ten days old is stale and that I am gaming the system. I actually waited to do this as i was trying to ensure i got it right this time around but still managed to make a mistake :). If the diff`s which show WMC breaking the pachauri probation are not enough or are to old then just strike the lot. mark nutley (talk) 08:59, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I suggest we close this with a general note that multiple reverts aren't an entitlement and the terms of the probation entail an obligation to responsible engagement. The healing of the climate change articles is more important and should be given a higher priority than any one edit. --TS 12:18, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

No, I'm not happy with that. the terms of the probation entail an obligation to responsible engagement - of course, we all agree that. But doing so rather suggests that didn't occur in this case. I don't think that's true. I'd accept 'the terms of the probation entail an obligation to responsible engagement (responsible engagement did occur in this case), though that would make your closure odd. Also, MN opened this complaint with Two reverts in under 24 hours in breach of the probation. - I'd like it made clear in the close that this is an error by MN: at the moment, his last edit indicates that he doesn't accept this. As far as I can tell this entire filing is based on an error by MN, and the close should reflect that William M. Connolley (talk) 12:35, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Mark did get it ridiculously wrong. Perhaps singling out this case for that proposed concluding statement (which I think is generally true) sends the wrong message. A null close would be okay with me. --TS 12:46, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

That will do fine by me William M. Connolley (talk) 12:54, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes i did get it wrong, i was under the assumption that the pachuari article was under a 1R restriction as i was reported for breaking it if you recall. I must however disagree with WMC`s statement that responsible engagement did occur in this case as it most certainly did not, look at the diffs and tell me which WP Rule says you can revert well sourced material on "monckton is a wacko"? That is disruptive editing and pushing a POV. I believe WMC should be warned at the least for this. I have no problem with the closing statement saying i has made an error with this case. --mark nutley (talk) 12:55, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Material on global warming sourced to Monckton or giving any weight to Monckton's opinion on matters of global warming, except on Monckton's own bio or a related article such as "Global warming conspiracy theory" where it can be presented in context, should of course not appear in Misplaced Pages article--much less the biographies of others. But the place for such discussions is not here. --TS 12:57, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning William M. Connolley

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I'm worried I'm misinterpreting the rules here, so I figured I'd pull a Hipocrite and lay down the request without using the template. It seems to me that Scjessey violated the 1RR rule with this edit, which reversed three unrelated, recent edits. I'd like the editor to self-revert. --Heyitspeter (talk) 00:48, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

If it helps, you can find a short discussion (prior to this request) of one of the edits Scjessey reverted here: User talk:Heyitspeter#Self-revert.--Heyitspeter (talk) 01:06, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

You are misinterpreting the rules. One reversion is one reversion. In fact, per WP:3RR I could've performed the same changes as a series of concurrent reversions if I wanted to, but there was no need. If you had sought consensus before making such controversial changes, a reversion like this would never had been necessary. You must, for example, had been fully aware of the total lack of support for using the word "leaked". -- Scjessey (talk) 02:33, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

As Scjessey's edit here demonstrates, he knows that this article is on 1RR restriction. He could not have made the same changes as a series of concurrent revisions. Can I get an outside opinion on whether the edit should be (self-)reverted? Thank you. --Heyitspeter (talk) 03:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

(In regards to the "leaked" word choice, this isn't relevant to the discussion at hand. I will say that a) I didn't know 'leaked' would be contentious, and b) as an editor you can easily change that word without making a broader revert. I'm still not clear why that wasn't done.)--Heyitspeter (talk) 03:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I haven't looked at the diff, but I can tell you absolutely that a single edit can never be a violation of 1RR. As Scjessey correctly notes, even a series of consecutive edits – all reverting – would not violate 1RR if there were no intervening edits; they would be taken together and count as a single revert. A revert is simply any edit which undoes the effect of one or more other edits; it doesn't matter how many intervening edits are undone. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 03:34, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Ahh okay cool! Had no idea that was the case.--Heyitspeter (talk) 03:37, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR SOMEONE TO SIMPLY STOP USERS MCSLY AND KENOSIS FROM ENDLESSLY REMOVING DISCUSSION FROM THE DISCUSSION PAGE?

I am really sorry to use all caps there but it seems incredibly hard to get any clear points across in the utter fog of confusion which seems to be DELIBERATELY sown here.

IN the name of God, can we NOT AGAIN HAVE THE COMMENT "THE TALK PAGE IS FOR IMPROVING THE ARTICLE". YES of course the talk page is for improving the article. OF COURSE. OBVIOUSLY. What happens is there is discussion on the talk page, (IE, DISCUSSION ABOUT IMPROVING THE ARTICLE) and McSly / Kenosis simply REMOVE THE DISCUSSION and then slap on the cover-all comment "THE TALK PAGE IS FOR IMPROVING THE ARTICLE". YES, THATS RIGHT, THE TALK PAGE IS FOR IMPROVING THE ARTICLE --- THE STUFF YOU ARE DELETING IS COMMENTARY DIRECTLY ABOUT IMPROVING THE ARTICLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It becomes incredibly ridiculous if every single time you remove something (McSly and Kenosis) you just blandly say "oh, the talk page is only for improving the article, that's why we deleted your comments" OVER AND OVER, when you are deleting comments directly about improving the article!!!!!!!!!!

Astonishingly you even deleted my comments (and others) ABOUT HOW YOU ARE DELETING COMMENTS which is THUS THE EXPLICIT REASON IT IS MAKING IT VERY HARD TO IMPROV THE ARTICLE!!!!! Can anyone see the irony here??

Can someone just get to the point and simply STOP mcsly and kenosis from endlessly removing ALMOST EVERYTHING from the talk pages????

Also you might want to actually READ MY PROPOSAL about this (which astonishingly - of course - THEY DELETED ... IN TWO INSTANCES WITHIN A FEW ******SECONDS******* OF IT APPEARING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I gabbed about this for ages at User_talk:MalcolmMcDonald#GlobalWarmingAd . For what it's worth I for one am in the category of simply CAN NOT BE BOTHERED ANY MORE as you will see is the only possible outcome any sane person would have, when they suffer this sort of "deletion insanity" from these two administrators (or whatever they are

I urge you, someone, anyone to just STOP Mcsly and Kenosis from this endless deletion frenzy. It is nuts. It is weird. It is bizarre.

83.203.210.23 (talk) 22:31, 23 January 2010 (UTC)