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Recusal

I cautiously recuse on cases. In this one, I recused from the outset because of your key role in the case. I think I might have even promised somewhere to recuse in cases involving you because of your influential opposition vote during my ArbCom election. I would not want to seem prejudiced against you if for some reason I concluded that you were overzealous or something.

Honestly, I don't have any ill will over the ArbCom election, and I thought your opposition was motivated by a legitimate concern, but I'm not sure about your feelings on the matter. If you do not think I should recuse from all cases involving you, I won't do so in the future. That said, I will not be participating in the CoM request; "unrecusing" has sometimes been dramatic, and I have confidence that the committee can handle this case. Cool Hand Luke 21:38, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I will be mindful of that in the future. For what it's worth, I also think you're a top-notch clerk. I try to support the clerks when they reign in the chaos. I was taking bar exams when the Geogre mess precipitated, but I was very disappointed to learn about your resignation later (actually, I was very unhappy with that mess for a number of reasons, but that was one of them). I was glad to see you rejoin. Cool Hand Luke 21:57, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Keenyah Hill

A tag has been placed on Keenyah Hill requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies. You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. ApprenticeFan 00:44, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi

Thanks for your suggestion. I do need some help actually, you can see the discussion here -which started shortly after edit war accords were sounded. I don't feel that the other side is realy interested in discussion (even if he said so), that he properly use sources or puting his POV aside and being neutral when edit. However, this specific issue is pretty fresh and seemingly on little essence. So, I don't know if arbitration request is the right thing to do, or what the right thing to do at all is..Will be grateful for every response--Gilisa (talk) 19:49, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Keenyah Hill

I have nominated Keenyah Hill, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Keenyah Hill (2nd nomination). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Plastikspork _―Œ 21:29, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ChildofMidnight

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above.

• User:ChildofMidnight is banned from Misplaced Pages for one year.

• User:ChildofMidnight is restricted to editing main (article) space, the talk pages of articles he has edited, Template talk:Did you know, and his own talk and user talk pages only. In all cases he is forbidden from discussing the behavior of other editors, real or perceived, outside of his own user talk page. ChildofMidnight may apply to the Committee for exemptions to this restriction for the purposes of good faith dispute resolution on a case-by-case basis. This remedy is concurrent (and cumulative) with any extant topic bans, and consecutive to any editing ban.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, ~ Amory (u • t • c) 03:39, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Discuss this

psst...

The talk page tends to get ignored from what I've seen, so I figured I should probably poke one of you "clerks" re: Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration/Requests#Categorization. It's not hugely important for the category to be added, but it would be nice. I don't think that this would be controversial at all, but the page is protected (and I don't have tools anyway), so... *shrug*
— V = IR (Talk • Contribs) 14:45, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

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Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Transcendental Meditation movement/Evidence

Thanks for your note. I hadn't been sure how rebuttals were factored in. I'll mostly be away from the computer for the next 24 hours, but I'll try to at least move a block of it to a subpage. I'm not sure if using sub-pages helps reduce the ArbCom's reading load, or makes it worse instead, but it seems to have become a standard practice.   Will Beback  talk  17:31, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Will - a subpage is a good idea. Just pop it in bold when you link to it on the main evidence page so the arbitrators will see it. I know for a fact that the arbitrators actually find it more effective. Ryan Postlethwaite 17:36, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, good to know. BTW, I think this notice may be on the wrong user page. Did you mean it for Keithbob?   Will Beback  talk  17:45, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Oops, so it was - thanks for spotting that. Hopefully all is sorted now. Ryan Postlethwaite 17:49, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Wait a minute here. You're misapplying the 1000 word limit. That limit clearly and explicitly applies to main evidence and not to rebuttals. I asked Seddon about this twice two weeks ago, and pointed out the appliable language. Having gotten no response, why should I have thught that I'm reading the plain words on the page incorrectly? Fladrif (talk) 17:48, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

The evidence section word limit is for your full section - it includes rebuttals and responses. Where does it say it doesn't? Ryan Postlethwaite 17:51, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

You are incorrect. It says (third sentence on the top of the page):

"Please limit your main evidence to a maximum 1000 words and 100 diffs and keep responses to other evidence as short as possible."

The 1000 word limit applies only to main evidence, and not to responses. Please restore my deleted material and that of any other editor whose rebuttal you incorrectly chopped.Fladrif (talk) 17:57, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

No, it includes rebuttals and responses - what the page is saying is that if you do decide to respond in discussion, you need to keep them as short as possible. The talk page is where discussion should take place. Ryan Postlethwaite 17:59, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

I disagree with that reading, but if that is the interpretation that you want to go with, fine. I'd suggest that the instructions be reworded in the template to make that interpretation explicit since it is by no means a necessary or even a reasonable one. None of the editors have chosen to respond to evidence presented by other editors on the talk page of the Evidence page; they have all done so in Rebuttal sections on the Evidence page itself. That being said, I'll cut back my material to get the whole lot under 1000 words, but this would have been unnecessary had anyone responded to my earlier questioning of this interpretation. Fladrif (talk) 18:08, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Ryan, out of curiosity, what are you using to calculate word counts? I seem to have gotten much smaller counts than you. Anyway, I just moved all of the evidence to the subpage. Splitting it doesn't really make sense, and if the Arbs are reading subpages then it's simpler to keep it together.   Will Beback  talk  22:13, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

What word count are you using and what did you get? I'm using this tool and from a little test I just did after seeing your post, I think it's a little inaccurate. Ryan Postlethwaite 22:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually, from another test I did, it's about +/- 10% so it's not that inaccurate. I'm trying to give everyone a leeway anyway of up to 100 words. Ryan Postlethwaite 22:18, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I've been using a Windows sidebar gadget that counts the words in the clipboard. It was reporting closer to 1200 words, where you said it was over over 1500 words. I'll have to doublecheck that I'm using gadget - it may be ignoring short words, etc.   Will Beback  talk  22:54, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I just checked again, using the text from this version: The sidebar gadget reports 1235, while countwords reports just 1007, so it looks like my tool was overstating the correct total. A text editor reports 1019 words, and MS word reports 1042 words. Are you sure that there were over 1500 words?   Will Beback  talk  23:00, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, it said it was above 1400 - I think it was 1467 off the top of my head. If you want to readd your text, then feel free to do so. Try and get it to under 1000 words on ms word then we can be sure it's under the limit! I'd trust MS any day of the week rather than my 'dodgy' online word counter! Ryan Postlethwaite 23:07, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I cut down about 50 words and now MS Word reports 992 words, so I've restored that material. (At the same time, my 'gadget' reports it to be 1180 words and the countword java program reports just 954 words. That's quite a range!)   Will Beback  talk  23:31, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I may be wrong, but it looks to me like Tuckerj1976 was editing his own evidence section. I can't say that the edit was helpful, but it appears to have been allowable. Or am I mistaken about whose section it's in?   Will Beback  talk  10:37, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Apologies - he was. I've reverted my reversion and my warning. I'll go an eat humble pie and offer an apology to Tuckerj1976. Thanks for spotting it. Ryan Postlethwaite 10:42, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

No problem. Maybe someday we'll find a better way of presenting cases that's easier on the parties, the clerks, and the committee members. Until then, mistakes are par for the course.   Will Beback  talk  11:08, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Transcendental Meditation movement/Evidence

Cheers for that, I do have tendency to ramble on a bit. By the way, good luck at Manchester, I looked at it many years ago but went elsewhere. Not a bad uni. If your studying Law by the way might I recommend the book market things they have a few times a week I think, down oxford Street? If your unfamiliar, head out of town past Manchester Met but before you hit the Royal Infirmary. Might save yourself a few bob. And again, thanks for that. Tucker 18:44, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Arbitration/Requests/Case/Transcendental_Meditation_movement/Evidence

Hi mate. You have refracted user Kbobs word count at the TM arbitration evidence section and warned him for the final time that if he increased it once more above 1000 words his evidence would be removed. Alas, he has once again added more to it with his word count now standing at over a 1000 words and increasing . You couldn't have a word could you? Not wishing to sound like I am telling on teacher but seems a bit unfair plus a lot like "cheating" and a disrespect for any administrator to be honest. Taking the Mick just a little? Cheers. Tucker 21:30, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Just to confirm it is this user and this warning: Cheers Tucker 21:34, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

KeithBob Arbitration Word Limit

Hey Ryan, thanks for the heads up on the word limit. I have added a few things back in, but I think I am within the 1000 word limit. If you think I'm over, please let me know and I can quickly adjust. Thanks for you help keeping all the ducks in a row.-- — Kbob • Talk • 21:37, 10 March 2010 (UTC)'

You wrote:

• You're around 170 words over. Can you sort this out asap? Thanks, Ryan Postlethwaite 15:53, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

• Yes I'll do it right away. I'm surprised tho that its so many. I have been counting. Do the little blue diff symbols count as words? Thanks for the warning!-- — Kbob • Talk • 15:56, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
  • No, the symbols don't, but any words used within the diff (for example like this) do. I'm only using an online word counter to get the word count so it's probably slightly out (i.e. it'll be including the diff symbols as words) but I don't think it'll be 170 words out. Let me know when you've had a play around - if you can get it to less than 1100 word when you copy the entire section into this online tool then I think that will be fine. Ryan Postlethwaite 16:08, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
• Cool! Thanks for your willingness to help.-- — Kbob • Talk • 16:25, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
• OK the tool says I have 1060 'words', so I think I'm OK, yes? -- — Kbob • Talk • 16:45, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Yup, many thanks for getting it back under. Ryan Postlethwaite 17:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Gibraltar Arbcom

Sorry, I missunderstood what was going on. --Gibnews (talk) 15:00, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Arbcom

With respect, I'm completely rewriting my statement. A little patience would be helpful. It's a bit ridiculous for you to put in a redacted version, then the moment I try to do my own redaction, to threaten me with a block, before I'm even done editing. Shoemaker's Holiday 23:31, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Are you going to redact your statement immediately to under the 500 word limit? You're extremely close to a block now. Ryan Postlethwaite 23:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Durova's statement has never been at 500 words. You have only ever seen fit to redact mine. Please show fair and balanced behaviour. Shoemaker's Holiday 23:35, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Apologies. When I checked last night she was under. I've asked her to redact it now. Now, if you could get to redacting yours that would be most appreciated. Ryan Postlethwaite 23:39, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

It'll take some time. I have a very complicated case to make, and you have basically been redacting me constantly while I was in the process of editing it, causing unexplained edit conflicts. I'll remove my complaint, though. I'd ask you to remove your warning on my talk page. Shoemaker's Holiday 23:41, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

440 words. Now, if you hadn't blocked, we wouldn't have all this damn drama. I could have gotten it down to that already. Shoemaker's Holiday 01:22, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. Ryan Postlethwaite 01:26, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

TM ArbCom: Tuckerj1976

Hi Ryan, It seems Tuckerj1976 has removed text from my evidence section. Can you address this please? Thanks!-- — Kbob • Talk • 04:05, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

I'll have a word with him - I agree that he shouldn't be editing your evidence at all. Ryan Postlethwaite 10:20, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually, he was editing his own evidence which he was allowed to do. Ryan Postlethwaite 10:41, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Upon closer inspection of the diff I see you are correct. My apologies to both you and Tuckerj1976.-- — Kbob • Talk • 14:32, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Prolixity as disruption

I've long felt that walls of text should be actively discouraged. I appreciate your moves to enforce the arbitration limits, which have been the accepted standard for years but have been ignored by some editors. You'd think all Wikipedians would pride themselves on their succinctness, but this is not the case. Tasty monster (TS on one of those new fangled telephone thingies) 04:36, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your words. When I make a statement on the requests page, I do so knowing that there is a 500 word limit so keep under it. Others do as well. When parties go over that limit, they get a reminder at first and we ask them that they redact it - it's simply to make sure they're aware. If they don't, or do it again, we're being more proactive in redacting it for them. It's all about having a level playing field - why should one party benefit and get a larger statement simply because they've gone against the rules? That's my take on it anyway. Ryan Postlethwaite 10:17, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Gib: Thanks and help on linking the arbitration

Thanks for the warning on downsizing. I asked Newyorkbrad whether it would be OK to link the arbitration case in the Gib talk page and he answered it might be OK after some time and maybe an arbclerk could help out with the wording. I was just thinking something on the lines of "An arbitration case has been open dealing with some of the issues under discussion in this page (link)". What do you think? Could you put it there, or maybe I should do it myself? Thanks (and sorry for adding some more work with these nuances) -- Imalbornoz (talk) 08:37, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi there Imalbornoz. Thanks for your note - I agree that it is a good idea to post a note on the article talk page, so I've put our standard notification on the talk page so everyone who edits the request is aware. Hopefully that's what you meant. Regards, Ryan Postlethwaite 10:21, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

That was exactly it. Thanks. -- Imalbornoz (talk) 11:27, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Reply

Sorry but I do happen to think it slightly unfair that several editors have been allowed to make disparaging comments about me but I'm unable to have my response on record because I have had real life problems. I have done as you suggested but feel at a distinct disadvantage that I'm going to find it very difficult to defend myself at this point in time. Justin the Evil Scotman talk 14:22, 12 March 2010 (UTC)