Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:44, 1 April 2010

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De and others

I just closed this. Could you take care of the necessary deprecation? Let me know if you need any help. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ 00:02, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Deprecation will take ages. A new admin backlog - glorious! –xeno 00:04, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, what do you know, a rough consensus close, I don't see those enough.
What makes this job very difficult is that it's been used twenty different ways in the past (which of course is part of the reason behind deprecation). In large parts it can probably be AWBed when it's enough to remove the template from the references section and make note of the source in the edit summary instead. Maybe that's always enough and it only requires more cleanup if the template is used inside ref tags or whatever? I'm sure that hard-working xenocidic (talk · contribs) guy can help with that. And it's not a pure admin backlog, everybody can start un-transcluding them. :)
Amalthea 12:14, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Ah, right, and probably place {{Translated page}} on the talk page, for good measure, and maybe even place {{Expand language}} on the article, which will be a judgement call (e.g. if no other "references" are left). Hmm. Amalthea 12:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

What do you think, should we mark them all as deprecated, like I've just done with {{Polish2}}? Currently they still have the TfD notice in it.
Will depend on how long it takes to remove the translusions I guess. Amalthea 12:34, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

AWB would probably require a custom module to modify the edit summary on-the-fly based on the wikitext. My main concern is that the attribution if we just do it this way then comes months or years later after the initial translation - which is why I thought importing was the ideal solution... We should perhaps engage Moonriddengirl to see what she thinks is the best way to go about it. –xeno 12:36, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

That's actually covered in WP:Copying within Misplaced Pages#Repairing insufficient attribution.
I tested out Special:Import on an article a couple of days ago, but couldn't figure out how to import only a specific range of revisions. Do you know if that that's possible? Seemed like I could only import the latest revision or all. Amalthea 12:56, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Yup, this kind of belated attribution happens all the time, really, even with OTRS materials when the issue is not noted and permission not verified until long after the content has found its home with us. :) Edit summary annotation and talk page template are probably the best ways to go, if importing is not done. --Moonriddengirl 13:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! –xeno 13:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Graham87 should probably be able to lend some insight. I believe he has been importing the revisions to the Mediawiki namespace, deleting those not required, and moving the rest in place with the article. –xeno 13:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Yep, that's what I've been doing, except with the MediaWiki talk namespace. :-) It would take a loooooong time to import all the necessary revisions by hand. Maybe a suitably programmed admin bot could do it; there won't be as many snags when importing from other language Wikipedias as there are for the Nostalgia Misplaced Pages. Graham87 13:23, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

We'd also need to make sure that any new usernames that come with the imported edits either already exist, or can't be created do to SUL, for WP:BEANS reasons. There's no way to change a username of an imported edit, so there may be related attribution issues, but they shouldn't be a big deal. Graham87 13:31, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking some kind of 'importation-for-dummies' page could be created (*nudge*) to help with this rather substantial deprecation campaign. –xeno 13:32, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

As a start, I've rewritten the guidelines for admins at Misplaced Pages:Requests for page importation. IMO they now cover the major situations people would encounter when importing from other language Wikipedias, but they probably need some clarification. Graham87 14:07, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. Seeing that importation from an active project will always leave garbage revisions in MediaWiki talk, albeit deleted, this suddenly seems like a quite unattractive solution to me.
Since even belated edit-summary attribution is OK per CC-by-SA/GFDL, and the {{translated page}} talk page template can take revision ids of source and target wiki if one wants to go to the trouble to figuring them out, I'd actually not import anything, and stick to edit summary/talk page template. Amalthea 14:18, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Are you some kind of neatfreak? ;p What about a bugzilla to allow selective import? –xeno 14:20, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Almost every long-term editor here shows some OCPD symptoms, I'm afraid. :) Bugzilla certainly sounds good, should be rather simple change, but probably still more of a long-term solution. Amalthea 16:25, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

No argument there, I'm afraid (re OCPD). Shall you file or I? –xeno 16:27, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Depreciated templates

I note that following a TFD you marked Template:Frenchtrans and Template:De as depreciated. However, Category:Deprecated templates indicates that If a deprecated template is still in use on other pages, add <noinclude>...</noinclude> tags around the {{Tdeprecated}} template. Is that no longer the practice? I just found, and replaced, a Frenchtrans template at the Ange Leccia article, and noted that the template was still in use on over 500 pages, as is the German one. --Bejnar (talk) 15:18, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure, but note that these are using {{tdeprecated-inline}} which is designed to filter through to the articles. I think it is supposed to clue people into the fact that the template is deprecated and should be replaced with something more appropriate. See above at #De and others for some background on this. –xeno 15:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Just changed them to the non-transcluded notices: Turns out that with the glaring in-article deprecation notice it was just as likely that editors remove the template not quite how it was intended (i.e. by replacing it with iw-ref). By the way, why the heck wasn't {{iw-ref}} part of the TfD? :) Amalthea 16:27, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Because iw-ref is still used for the articles that can't have their histories imported and my main argument was that history-import should take its place. Now that we know that attribution-long-after-the-fact is ok, we could probably initiate another TFD on the smaller languages and iw-ref itself. Or just rouge out and claim precedent. (On replacing inline with the regular template - good point, and no worries) –xeno 16:28, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

igloo

Thanks for your interest in igloo. You have been added to the script whitelist, and the program should now allow you to connect. Ale_Jrb 23:10, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Sweet! Thanks, –xeno 23:14, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Still can't connect to server but could be a local firewall thing. Will try again from home. –xeno 23:24, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Possibly DNS issues - I couldn't get it yesterday and a few other people could, soo... If it still doesn't work, give it a day or something. Ale_Jrb 23:27, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Probably not the problem, but I find I have to reapeatadle refresh the web page (up to five times or so), every time it stops doing stuff :). - Kingpin (talk) 23:30, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Should now be fixed with regards to the whitelist. I dunno about the firewall - it just loads code from alejrb.x10hosting.com. Ale_Jrb 14:05, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Just for the record and anyone curious, my problem was related to this. =\ –xeno 18:24, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

fyi re that bot run across the actor bios

I've re-posted a request to close the WP:ACTOR RfC at WP:AN#Stuck RfC @ WT:ACTOR#Filmography and have referred to your offer to apply your bot to the task once the dust has settled. Cheers, Jack Merridew 03:07, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok, poke me when there's something to be done =) –xeno 17:08, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Questions

2 Questions.

1) How do you get those notes to appear at the top of your talk page and at the top when someone is editing it.

2) I've been studying coding lately, what language does wikipedia use?

Thanks!--Ezekiel 7:19 14:10, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

1. It is an edit notice, just edit Special:Mytalk/Editnotice.
2. Not sure... Mediawiki says its written in PHP... –xeno 14:14, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

• Don't forget to properly attribute when copying stuff within Misplaced Pages. –xeno 14:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I won't, sorry. I'm doing to many things at once.--Ezekiel 7:19 16:48, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Could use an admin's help at WP:ANI#user:Zlykinskyja's conduct at AFD page

The thread has gone on forever. From a brief examination, it appears that Zlykinskyja's account is compromised. The rest of the argument seems to be much less cut and dry (Zlykinskyja isn't usually vandalizing, just completely incapable of achieving consensus for edits, poor at citing sources for their edits, and entirely too inclined to assume bad faith and overreact). The recent vandalism edit appears to indicate a compromised account though, which (I would think) makes the decision much easier. I'm contacting you directly only because you're the first active admin I noticed, and this thread needs to be resolved one way or another. —ShadowRanger  17:13, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I usually try to pass the buck on these things, but I'll take a look and see if anything jumps out at me. –xeno 17:14, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I read over the whole thing, and like I said, most of it seems like a case of an immature editor, but not a vandal. The very end of the whole thread (where I came in) has a diff to a clear case of vandalism by said editor, but the editor denies having done it, which means a compromised account. The fact that the account appears to be compromised makes the decision easier, because you can ignore the big complicated argument and focus on the clear policy guidelines. —ShadowRanger  17:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Too complicated for me to untangle right now. This could be chalked up to a bad connection rather than compromised account. Maybe a nice cup of tea would help? Or a talk page stalker... –xeno 17:22, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. Bad connection is possible, but damn, that would have to be a hell of a bad connection to break TCP's checksumming that many times. Either way, I think any resolution is better than none, and having no horse in this race, your close seems as good as any. Thanks for the help. —ShadowRanger  17:44, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I've seen worse. =) –xeno 18:03, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

And despite multiple attempts to explain that our hands are tied in the case of a compromised account, they insisted that it could not be a connection issue and forced you to block them. While sad, I can't help but admire their devotion to WP:PLAXICO (though it appears that that particular policy page was deleted; maybe this was a tribute, a memorial if you will?). —ShadowRanger  19:56, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Truly boggles the mind... On your side note, I might have had something to do with the redlinking of that... heh! –xeno 20:02, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

While entirely agreeing with your reasoning for deletion, I must now harbor a brief but fiery hatred for you for your role in removing it. … … … Okay, done. :-) —ShadowRanger  20:05, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

! ;> –xeno 20:06, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Given the above-mentioned fiasco about the "vandalised" page, please spare a thought for those of us trying to reach consensus with Zlykinskyja in the article that she is passionate about!. Cheers. Bluewave (talk) 11:16, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Anti-vandal audio alarm embedded in warning templates

Hi Xeno,

I'm not sure where to field this idea but here goes...

Could audio alarms be added to 2nd level warning templates and higher using html embed tags (or alternate method)?

example: <EMBED src="vandalalarm.wav" autostart=true loop=true volume=100 hidden=true><NOEMBED><BGSOUND src="vandalalarm.wav"></NOEMBED>

I'd love to see this happen because I'm picturing the kids sitting in their classrooms or the library when suddenly an audible alarm (3 computer beeps {Java?} followed by a wav with a voice saying "Misplaced Pages vandal alert!") embarrasses them and lets the instructors know what is going on. I'm hoping this could help cut down on school-kid vandals.

What do you think?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:27, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I sincerely hope this isn't serious... ╟─TreasuryTag►Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster─╢ 17:28, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it's a good idea, but this would be proposed at WT:UW. –xeno 17:29, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

What would be the downsides? It is a serious thought...I'm open-minded about it.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:34, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I just think that having auto-starting sounds on Misplaced Pages is a bad idea all around. What's to stop someone from sending it to me as a joke? I think it's probably prevented in the HTML parser anyway. –xeno 17:36, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Good point on the joke aspect. What if this was something for admins-only and issued with a block? Avoid abuse that way.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I still think it's prevented from the HTML parser and don't really think it will be effective. Most school PCs aren't wired for sound (at least they weren't when I was a young whippersnapper). –xeno 17:56, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

<== Thank you for your thoughts...I'll think on it some more. Given the date, I can see why TT thought I might not be serious. :)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:05, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh geez I forgot all about that! =) –xeno 18:06, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

You did a good thing

I just wanted to express that I have no doubt you did what you thought was a good thing in the best interest of the user. Please do not mistake my notifications and comments as in anyway directed against you or saying that you did anything wrong. I am just trying to notify some of the other users who have been heavily involved in this just in case it goes south. Thanks! -OberRanks (talk) 18:17, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Not at all - thank you for the note. –xeno 18:22, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

My apologies. I had thought from the surrounding discourse that there was some ArbCom case involved, and those of us who routinely review unblock requests generally know better than to get involved under those circumstances.

As far as that other page goes, it was created by someone else with the same name a long time ago and has nothing to do with me. Perhaps I should usurp the account to prevent its potential misuse. Daniel Case (talk) 18:25, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

No worries. And yes, I would advise usurping the account just in case. There are no GFDL/cc-by-sa significant edits and it's been dormant since 2005. –xeno 18:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

You back?

If so, I'm ready to rock on WP:ESSAY C/C. If the formula looks good to you, let's generate the results page, apply the formula, and then get the bot on it. I'm excited! ɳorɑfʈ 18:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Sure. I'll get this rolling... Probably tomorrow, maybe this evening. –xeno 18:53, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Awesome. ɳorɑfʈ 18:58, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Headers on the edit window for your talk

I noticed you have a header that appears when I make an edit on your page. I tried to mimic it by going to User talk:ShadowRangerRIT/Editnotice, but when I got there, it was asking if I wanted to leave a message. If I "leave a message" will that become the edit notice, or is there a more involved way of setting this up? I don't want to accidentally fsck up my talk page. —ShadowRanger  21:03, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Try it and see; it's the wiki way. But yes, what you type there will be the edit notice for your talk page. You might find the {{editnotice}} template useful. Or just steal (with attribution!) and modify Xeno's. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:35, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Usually I would, but with "special" pages like this (another example being the monobook page), I'd rather not risk damage I can't fix on my own. Thanks for the info! —ShadowRanger  21:43, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Floq is right; just edit the /Editnotice on your talk page. Not much can go wrong, and you can always db-u1 if you fubar something =). –xeno 23:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for that.Mk5384 (talk) 02:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
I would just like to add, without getting into any discussions of what was right or wrong, that I made over 1000 edits without incident before this debacle. So if you expect to see me blocked again, I have a feeling you'll be pleasantly surprised.Mk5384 (talk) 02:37, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

You might be interested in this posting which was one of the first actions the user made once the block was lifted. Seems to be going right back into the previous pattern of behavior. Guess we'll see what happens here. -OberRanks (talk) 04:31, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Let's try to give them some breathing room, hopefully they'll take the advice on board and modify their approach. –xeno 14:24, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

April Fools

Who are the amazing mad admins who came up with the humor on the front page. Whoever they are, they are awesome!--Ezekiel 7:19 14:21, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

It's an April 1st tradition... Not sure where it's organized. I take no credit whatsoever ;p –xeno 14:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Aww, I bet you could have come up with some of that humor.--Ezekiel 7:19 14:25, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Better than the old days where we just would unprotect the front page and let people have a go. :eek: Syrthiss (talk) 14:35, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Xenobot!

I see that Xenobot is sorting up a storm. That's awesome. Question: is Xenobot going off a new list, or the old list? Because since the old list of 700 essays was generated, about 350 more have had the project banner added to them. Also, do you think it would be wise for Xenobot to assign an importance of N/A to categories? Because a high importance category bumps what would have been a high importance essay down. ɳorɑfʈ 14:33, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think cats should be NA importance. We can ask MZMcBride to exclude them. I've manually bumped up the two essays that were knocked out of high and mid importance due to the category:Misplaced Pages essays. It's going off which was generated today to include the scores in the final column. –xeno 14:35, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

• FYI the category pages need to be created. –xeno 14:43, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Oh yeah, good call. I'm on it. ɳorɑfʈ 14:46, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Unprotection of John Pershing

I am doing my best to behave in a professional manner here. Since you were the one who protected the article, I am seeking your counsel. On the talkpage, I have reiterated that the information is sourced, and that I will return it upon unprotection. I have also acknoweledged the possibility that I will be reverted. I have no intention of edit warring, or violating 3RR, or anything else. I will instead seek formal mediation. On the talkpage, Baseball Bugs has said that I "will be blocked so fast it will make my head spin" if I return it. Now, perhaps he meant "reverted", I don't know. Please tell me, do I have any reason to fear actually being blocked if I edit the article in a professional manner?Mk5384 (talk) 16:24, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I suppose that depends on if a consensus has formed (I haven't looked). If there is a strong consensus in place and you make edits contrary to that, it might be considered a form of disruptive editing. I don't think it would be an immediate block, though. –xeno 16:26, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. And, my apologies, the actual quote was that my head would "swim", not "spin". Bugs has also said that the nickname is non-negotiable, and it is OUT (his capitalisation); the same kinds of unilateral statements for which I was warned. There is no consensus for either version, although the tide does appear to be turning against mine. I plan to return it once. Then when I am reverted, which I almost certainly will be, I will seek formal mediation.Mk5384 (talk) 16:44, 1 April 2010 (UTC)