| Revision as of 20:52, 17 January 2006 editMadame Sosostris (talk | contribs)369 edits →[]: moved yelling to talk page← Previous edit | Revision as of 20:55, 17 January 2006 edit undoRavenflight (talk | contribs)18 edits This page is the one that the wiki staff will use to make their decision, and they need to see what has been presented here. Reverting back to the page containing all needful evidence and testimonyNext edit → | ||
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| * '''Delete''' —] 19:47, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | * '''Delete''' —] 19:47, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | ||
| * '''Delete.''' The book is self-published, the articles are "upcoming" (i.e., I can't find them anywhere) and he's well-known on LiveJournal. ] 20:10, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | * '''Delete.''' The book is self-published, the articles are "upcoming" (i.e., I can't find them anywhere) and he's well-known on LiveJournal. ] 20:10, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | ||
| This man has a large online presence, and thousands of people have purchased his book. He has contributed to articles upcoming in "The Cauldron", one of Britain's most read occult magazines, as well as "Pentacle" in the UK. He is published in the "Pagan Awareness Network" journal in Australia. He is a well-known personality in the neopagan world. Despite the clear attacks of the people who don't want to see him here for their own personal reasons and vendettas, his name and writings are well known in neopagan circles, and I thought he deserved an article. The user who called for this deletion is "Ashley Y", a person who also uses the Misplaced Pages rip-off and trash site "Encyclopedia Dramatica", where she has made countless libelous statements against Robin Artisson. You can see them here in the history page of the article made against him there: | |||
| http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php?title=Son_of_art&action=history | |||
| The user "Swisscelt" has also tried to smear him at that site, and you can look at that history page and see his name, as well. Both of these users have personal grudges against Robin. They are not objective. Many authors and artists choose to self-publish for reasons of creative control. Being self-published is still published. —] | |||
| :I wouldn't call this article objective, either. It states that Artisson has had a positive influence on neo-paganism and refers to opposition groups as "nasty," which is blatantly POV. If you want this article to stay, I suggest you review ] and revise accordingly. | |||
| :I would also request that we limit this discussion to an assessment of Mr. Artisson's claims to notability. This is not Encyclopedia Dramatica, and what goes on there is not Misplaced Pages business. ] 20:23, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :This forum is for putting arguments for and against the deletion of this article. It is a very salient fact that the person who is calling for the deletion has created and edited libelous articles that are mean-spirited attacks on Robin Artisson. Her reasons for calling for this delete are not objective nor in the best interest of Misplaced Pages. The Wiki staff have the right to know what she has done against Robin in other places. —] | |||
| ::Salient, yes. Relevant, no. Does the question of Mr. Artisson's notability hinge on whether or not someone on another site dislikes him? | |||
| ::Regardless of ]'s reasons, the question has been raised. It will be addressed according to Misplaced Pages policy. ] 20:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| How many people does it take, exactly, before someone is officially "Notable"? He has made thousands of book sales worldwide and is well known on and offline- as you and the others that are attacking him here well attest to. You seem to know all about him, though your information is biased and false. Either way, I'd call that (and him) quite notable, or we wouldn't be having this discussion. —] | |||
| * '''Do not Delete''' —] | * '''Do not Delete''' —] | ||
| ** strongly suggests this is a Robin Artisson sock puppet. --] 20:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| I have only edited a single article- the one I wrote about Robin. I'm not a sockpuppet. Nor is "toadsboon" a sockpuppet; the Wiki staff can see that our IP's are different, and that Toadsboon has been working here in other times and places, before I arrived. —] | |||
| * '''Please Do Not Delete''' Robin Artisson deserves to be represented here as well as any other author ''without'' being attacked. ] 20:06, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | * '''Please Do Not Delete''' Robin Artisson deserves to be represented here as well as any other author ''without'' being attacked. ] 20:06, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | ||
| ** strongly suggests this is a Robin Artisson sock puppet. --] 20:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Delete''' If the bar is set so low as to allow self-published authors to use Misplaced Pages as another one of many channels of self-aggrandizement and bully-pulpit we've served no public good. At very least, it should be deemed unacceptable for the subject to be author and editor of what amounts to his own mini-biography, and Artisson seems unlikely to allow others to pass judgement or comment negatively upon himself. —] | * '''Delete''' If the bar is set so low as to allow self-published authors to use Misplaced Pages as another one of many channels of self-aggrandizement and bully-pulpit we've served no public good. At very least, it should be deemed unacceptable for the subject to be author and editor of what amounts to his own mini-biography, and Artisson seems unlikely to allow others to pass judgement or comment negatively upon himself. —] | ||
| This article is not self-aggrandizement; nothing written in the article is untrue. And this article bullies no one; the people who have started this motion to delete are the only ones that could rightly be suspected of bullying, based on what they have said and done at another wiki-type website. Mr. Artisson would welcome any statements being added to this article, so long as they followed Wiki's rules of civility and they were not libel. —] | |||
| * '''Delete.''' Robin Artisson is a well-known troll and troublemaker who has spammed, mailbombed, and harassed dozens (if not hundreds) of pagan-oriented mailing lists, usergroups, Livejournal communities, causing many of them to shut down. But being a first-class asshole is not notable enough to warrant an entry in Misplaced Pages. --] 20:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | * '''Delete.''' Robin Artisson is a well-known troll and troublemaker who has spammed, mailbombed, and harassed dozens (if not hundreds) of pagan-oriented mailing lists, usergroups, Livejournal communities, causing many of them to shut down. But being a first-class asshole is not notable enough to warrant an entry in Misplaced Pages. --] 20:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | ||
| These statements are patently false. They are lies, libel, and you have no evidence for any of them. Also, you are being extremely uncivil and making empty personal attacks. This is common behavior, it seems. The Misplaced Pages rules forbid this. —] | |||
| '''Discussion has been moved to the talk page for this article.''' Please continue it there. ] 20:52, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :: Please take comments and flames to the discussion page, please. --] 20:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| So... calling someone "a first class asshole" isn't a flame? Calling someone a "Troll" and a "Troublemaker" isn't a "flame"? Why don't you take that to the "discussions" page? It seems that you may be a sockpuppet of some of the people who have started this. —] | |||
Revision as of 20:55, 17 January 2006
Robin Artisson
Non-notable, possible vanity —Ashley Y 19:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
- Delete —Ashley Y 19:47, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
- Delete. The book is self-published, the articles are "upcoming" (i.e., I can't find them anywhere) and he's well-known on LiveJournal. Madame Sosostris 20:10, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
This man has a large online presence, and thousands of people have purchased his book. He has contributed to articles upcoming in "The Cauldron", one of Britain's most read occult magazines, as well as "Pentacle" in the UK. He is published in the "Pagan Awareness Network" journal in Australia. He is a well-known personality in the neopagan world. Despite the clear attacks of the people who don't want to see him here for their own personal reasons and vendettas, his name and writings are well known in neopagan circles, and I thought he deserved an article. The user who called for this deletion is "Ashley Y", a person who also uses the Misplaced Pages rip-off and trash site "Encyclopedia Dramatica", where she has made countless libelous statements against Robin Artisson. You can see them here in the history page of the article made against him there:
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php?title=Son_of_art&action=history
The user "Swisscelt" has also tried to smear him at that site, and you can look at that history page and see his name, as well. Both of these users have personal grudges against Robin. They are not objective. Many authors and artists choose to self-publish for reasons of creative control. Being self-published is still published. —Ravenflight
- I wouldn't call this article objective, either. It states that Artisson has had a positive influence on neo-paganism and refers to opposition groups as "nasty," which is blatantly POV. If you want this article to stay, I suggest you review Misplaced Pages:NPOV and revise accordingly.
- I would also request that we limit this discussion to an assessment of Mr. Artisson's claims to notability. This is not Encyclopedia Dramatica, and what goes on there is not Misplaced Pages business. Madame Sosostris 20:23, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
- This forum is for putting arguments for and against the deletion of this article. It is a very salient fact that the person who is calling for the deletion has created and edited libelous articles that are mean-spirited attacks on Robin Artisson. Her reasons for calling for this delete are not objective nor in the best interest of Misplaced Pages. The Wiki staff have the right to know what she has done against Robin in other places. —Ravenflight
- Salient, yes. Relevant, no. Does the question of Mr. Artisson's notability hinge on whether or not someone on another site dislikes him?
- Regardless of Ashley Y's reasons, the question has been raised. It will be addressed according to Misplaced Pages policy. Madame Sosostris 20:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
How many people does it take, exactly, before someone is officially "Notable"? He has made thousands of book sales worldwide and is well known on and offline- as you and the others that are attacking him here well attest to. You seem to know all about him, though your information is biased and false. Either way, I'd call that (and him) quite notable, or we wouldn't be having this discussion. —Ravenflight
- Do not Delete —Ravenflight
- This user's edit history strongly suggests this is a Robin Artisson sock puppet. --Modemac 20:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I have only edited a single article- the one I wrote about Robin. I'm not a sockpuppet. Nor is "toadsboon" a sockpuppet; the Wiki staff can see that our IP's are different, and that Toadsboon has been working here in other times and places, before I arrived. —Ravenflight
- Please Do Not Delete Robin Artisson deserves to be represented here as well as any other author without being attacked. Toadsboon 20:06, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
- This user's edit history strongly suggests this is a Robin Artisson sock puppet. --Modemac 20:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
- Delete If the bar is set so low as to allow self-published authors to use Misplaced Pages as another one of many channels of self-aggrandizement and bully-pulpit we've served no public good. At very least, it should be deemed unacceptable for the subject to be author and editor of what amounts to his own mini-biography, and Artisson seems unlikely to allow others to pass judgement or comment negatively upon himself. —Wingedelf
This article is not self-aggrandizement; nothing written in the article is untrue. And this article bullies no one; the people who have started this motion to delete are the only ones that could rightly be suspected of bullying, based on what they have said and done at another wiki-type website. Mr. Artisson would welcome any statements being added to this article, so long as they followed Wiki's rules of civility and they were not libel. —Ravenflight
- Delete. Robin Artisson is a well-known troll and troublemaker who has spammed, mailbombed, and harassed dozens (if not hundreds) of pagan-oriented mailing lists, usergroups, Livejournal communities, causing many of them to shut down. But being a first-class asshole is not notable enough to warrant an entry in Misplaced Pages. --Modemac 20:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
These statements are patently false. They are lies, libel, and you have no evidence for any of them. Also, you are being extremely uncivil and making empty personal attacks. This is common behavior, it seems. The Misplaced Pages rules forbid this. —Ravenflight
- Please take comments and flames to the discussion page, please. --Modemac 20:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
So... calling someone "a first class asshole" isn't a flame? Calling someone a "Troll" and a "Troublemaker" isn't a "flame"? Why don't you take that to the "discussions" page? It seems that you may be a sockpuppet of some of the people who have started this. —Ravenflight