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Welcome to Misplaced Pages, Hullaballoo Wolfowitz/Archive 12! I'm Celestianpower. I noticed that you were new and/or have yet to receive any messages so I just thought I'd pop in to say "hello". Hello. Misplaced Pages can be a little intimidating at first, since it's so big but we won't bite so Be Bold and get what you know down in microchips! If you do make a mistake, that's fine, we'll assume good faith and just correct you: it'll take a few seconds maximum! Here, however, are a few links to get you started:

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• User talk:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz/Archive

RE: Speedy deletions

I'm sorry, but a speedy deletion is a speedy deletion. WP:CSD is very clear in this regard. These articles do not fit these criteria, so please try proposing it for deletion or putting it on AFD instead. Thanks and regards, —Celestianpower 21:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, please read the Talk pages of articles before nominating them for AfD or trying to Speedy them. The List of gay porn stars article was previously nominated for deletion and the result was "keep".—Chidom   12:47, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Please take more care in avoiding incivility or comments that may be seen as uncivil. I read the discussion page. The nomination you refer to is over a year old. The policy underlying my deletion proposal took effect only a few months ago. Even without the new policy rules, there is nothing wrong with a new deletion proposal more than a year after an earlier one. Especially when the reason is completely different. The editor formerly known as Harmonica Wolfowitz 19:35, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry that you found my comment to appear uncivil. It was not meant to be so.—Chidom   20:50, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Unbias

I noticed that an editor by the name of Hoary is very bais when it comes to deleting photographers from the fashion photography section. Just recently I added a photographer the shoots for Vogue Magazine and also has won very prestigious awards... all this information is verifiable, and referecnced. I am writing you because I see that you have stood upto this person, in the Luke Duval AFD section. Another, much more established photographer named Seth Sabal has been deleted by Hoary and this photographer, shoots for shot for Vogue; and won the same award as Luke Duval the photographer you protected from deletion. Can you please help me. Thank you Sarah PhotobloggerNYT (talk) 01:20, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback. I will make citations corrections change tone to be less promotional. I know Grace personally and she used to go by Amy Gilbertson. She was in Miss America and runner up to Miss Iowa. I will site her accomplishments and also correct any inadvertent deceptions on my part. I am NOT a promoter, my name is Jeffrey Fry and am a personal friend of Ms. Sharington and thought her life noteworthy. Of course, I bow to your guidelines as you see fit to implement and thank you for your understanding and consideration. You can find me on LinkedIn and Facebook. I live in Austin, TX (jxf@austin.rr.com) is my email address and I invest and help start ups. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeteye (talk • contribs) 18:55, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Removal of images

Please stop removing images from articles, as you did with Jenny Lynn, Raye Hollitt, Guy Lafleur, and others. Using images of book and magazine covers is acceptable under WP:Fair use. fbb_fan 00:18, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Please review WP:Fair use and the policy described in the copyright tag for those images more carefully. As my edit summaries accurately quoted, "It is not acceptable to use images with this tag in the article of the person or persons depicted on the cover, unless used directly in connection with the publication of this image." In each case you cited, the article use did not conform to this requirement. The editor formerly known as Harmonica Wolfowitz 19:28, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Please review WP:FU and note that it is in fact a guideline, not a policy. This is clearly stated at the top of the page. fbb_fan 01:24, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Please review WP:FU more carefully. The template you mention refers only to sections 1-4 of the page. Sections 5-8 are formal Misplaced Pages policy. They are labelled as formal policy by the template preceding section 5. The editor formerly known as Harmonica Wolfowitz 16:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

...and I believe the section you are citing as the reason for removing images is not in the section marked as "policy".

Incidentally, since you seem to be quite a stickler for policy and such, please note the following from WP:SIG: Signatures that obscure your account name to the casual reader may be seen as disruptive. fbb_fan 23:41, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Noel Gallagher

Hi there! I was wondering why you made this edit. Gallagher's drug-use in his early days is pretty widely documented – he's even had a few laughs about it during interviews. And the fact that he ripped off "Get It On" is also pretty well-known, although I agree that may have been written in a slightly POV way. But do you think that we should just remove his recreational habits from the article? I wouldn't want to start an edit war, so I just thought I'd see what you think. This paragraph states that if an allegiation is notable, verifiable and important to the article, it should not be removed. And personally, I think Gallagher using drugs was one of the best things to happen to British music – without it, Oasis would have just been some shoddy garage band :) But that's just me! Well, please let me know your thoughts. Happy editing, — riana_dzasta • t • c • e • ER • 14:45, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Under the "Remove unsourced or poorly sourced negative material" paragraph of Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons, statements like these are to be removed immediately if they are not properly sourced. Claims of plagiarism and illegal drug abuse are clearly "negative material." If they are well-documented, just find reliable sources and add the material back, citing those sources. Make sure that what the article says on these matters matches what the source says. No disagreement about content, just about sourcing -- statements like these now must be verified, not just verifiable. The editor formerly known as Harmonica Wolfowitz 17:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that, I've left a message with the editor who added all that information initially; I'm sure he'll take care of it. :) Ta, — riana_dzasta • t • c • e • ER • 23:06, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Copyright

Regarding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Adi Shankara, I've forwarded the email to the PR dept giving permission for the image. →Talk 01:24, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Chessie Moore

Would have been easy to check that I wasn't libelling her. She freely admits to it on her (already linked) bio/FAQ on her site. So please don't pull out the WP:BLP too quickly. Cheers. MadMaxDog 11:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

WP:BLP says that if comments like that aren't sourced, delete immediately. Hard to see how I could act "too quickly". Please explain. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz 19:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Nah, its okay. I was mainly referring to the fact that the link I gave as a source was already on the page! Though I can understand that with such fetishes, people might be rather restrictive... MadMaxDog 07:53, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Request

I am not familiar with the credit card / porn star identity incident you mentioned in AnonEMouse's RFA, but I would like to take a closer look at it. Could you provide some more direct diffs related to Mouse's involvment? Dragons flight 21:48, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I provided extensive links and discussion on that page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/AnonEMouse. AnonEMouse 15:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

"a couple followup questions"

You were very civil, and raised appropriate points. I could hardly do less than respond, briefly at first, then in more detail when JoshuaZ asked. I can't wait for the questions! :-) AnonEMouse 15:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

RfA Opposition ... Thanks

Harmonica, Hullaballoo ... (I still think it should have been Peterandthe Wolfowitz) ..., thank you for your civility and reasonableness in your opposition. I can't pretend I wouldn't have preferred you support, but if I had to have opposition, I'm glad it was as reasoned, well thought out and argued as yours. You were amazed the discussion was so civil - well, you made it civil. And for that, I thank you.

As you suspected it would, my Request for Adminship has ended, successfully. And your words there had a lot of impact on me. I would appreciate the chance to show you that you were wrong in your opposition. I expect we will continue to disagree on content issues, but that is all right - it takes views to make this a successful encyclopedia, as long as they are well intentioned and civil they will be appreciated. If there is any admin thing I can do to make your life easier, please ask, and I will do as best I can.

Otherwise I will try to start the admin thing slowly, and not delete the Main Page for at least five minutes. If I mess up, make sure to come to my talk page and give me a good yell. Email also works, and is more private, but talk page will often get a more immediate response. If even that doesn't work, I am, of course, in Category:Administrators open to recall, though I would hope you give the yell route a try first. AnonEMouse 23:16, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Design from User:Phaedriel/Rfa thanks, which amazed me when I got it. GFDL.

CalendarWatcher's reversion

Just to note, CalendarWatcher reverted you here . I agree with you that the merge should be done with a little more effort put into it as to what's necessary and what's not by some users familiar with the topic. I didn't understand his reasoning that 'nothing is stopping you' while merging the article making that impossible. It just sounded abrasive. I know a little about the show myself so I could possibly step in if need be, but as you said, it shouldn't be merged yet. Cheers! Cheers_Dude (talk) 08:31, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

I might also like to note that this editor is running on a second chance granted by an admin in which he really should be blocked right now for recent violation of the 3RR, as shown here . His editing practices are not improving and you are not the only user he has shown uncivil editing habits with as shown here and here . Given that he should be blocked for violation of 3RR, an admin should most definitely be contacted if he engages in edit warring or violates the 3RR again. Cheers! Cheers_Dude (talk) 10:08, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

User:Calton and sockpuppetry

If you blank content on User:Calton again, I will block you for disruptive editing. I've already blocked your IP once, so I suggest you stop. - auburnpilot talk 01:01, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

With this warning, I believe you were in error. The user in question was engaging in perfectly appropriate blanking of a serious BLP violation. To call someone a "spammer" is a very serious personal attack, remember WP:NPA, and he was using a (misspelling) of the real name of a known critic. The block in this case should have been handed out to User:Calton for violatio of policy, and Hullaballoo Wolfowitz could possibly have been thanked for right action.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:20, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Dave Simons DRV

In relation to this edit , DRV is generally only for admins since they're the ones who can see the full text of the deletion pages. That being said, do you have a link for the cahce of the full text of the deleted article? I'd like to see it and offer help, if I can. Thanks! Dayewalker (talk) 20:21, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

First of all, nothing I see in the deletion policy page on deletion review backs up your claim. Any editor may participate in deletion review. Often the deleted text is not as important as the deletion discusssion which remains for all editors to see. Deletion review is a discussion about the appropriateness of deletion discussion outcomes. I have read many discussions in which normal editors participated. Second, the google cache has now disappeared. But the same content can be found here. ]. Showing that the editor who created the article was actively trying to improve it. It is extremely similar to the text I posted. I do not understand why you think that text was not sufficient. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:41, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I said nothing of the sort about the page, I was only asking if it was anywhere where I could take a full look at it. It stands to reason that if only admins can see the content, then only admins would be qualified to figure out whether it should have been deleted in the first place. If that snippet from wikirage is all that exists, there don't seem to be any reliable sources. Dayewalker (talk) 20:51, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

But lack of reliable sources for an article in the process of being written is not grounds for speedy deletion! Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:53, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I can't see the full article so I can't comment on this specific one, but yes, yes they can. The mainspace is not the place to write an unsourced article, as I've tried to explain to the author of this piece. Dayewalker (talk) 21:01, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Sourcing issues aren't grounds for speedy deletion under the speedy deletion policy, even for BLPs. And certainly not for articles that were being written when the speedy was placed. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:06, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

(OD)Without proper sourcing, the subject wasn't notable. I've tried to be as helpful as I can to the author, but if you upload an unfinished, unsourced article to the mainspace, it's probably going to come back down pretty quickly. Dayewalker (talk) 00:34, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Block

Following on from the discussion here and Auburn Pilot's warning a few sections above on this page, I see that you have continued to disruptively edit User:Calton whilst logged out. I have therefore blocked you for 48 hours. I will post the standard block template, which contains details of how to request an unblock, below. _Gb 14:14, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

_Gb 14:14, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I did not make the edit I am accused of making. I am obviously not the editor who did so. I am in North America, from a school/library network. As I asked last week, this can easily be checked out as true The banned editor I am for no good reason accused of being is described as being in the Czech Republic, and the IPs involved are traced there by the "GEOLOCATE" function on the contributions page. The accusations were made in a discussion I started. But after I had logged out because the library was closing. The discussion was closed before I could respond. And there was no evidence presented at all. If you examine the edit histories there is no resemblance between what I do and what the user I am accused of being does. Even the administrator who began accusing me of being a sockpuppet (without saying whose) now says on his talk page "I have no idea if you are related to the old sockpuppet accounts mentioned." I also want to say that the disputed edit was not improper. It is the kind of deletion that the Arbitration Committee called for with regard to BLP violations on userpages. No one has seriously claimed that the material I deleted did not have BLP violations in it. I will post more from the Arbcom decisions but I have to research them a little. If this is not good enough then I ask to be unblocked so I can take this to Arbitration since I was just following Arbcom guidelines ! Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Decline reason:

While checkuser confirms that aspect of your unblock request, the blocking admin makes a good argument that your behavior has been nonetheless disruptive. — Coren  13:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Given that checkuser confirms that aspect of your claim, I've asked the blocking editor to comment here on whether that was the sole basis for the block. — Coren  01:00, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I confirm Coren's findings. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz is  Unrelated to the IP. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 04:44, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

{{unblock}} I'm sorry. This is Kafkaesque. It is not disputed that I did not make the edit for which I was blocked. (The IP that actually made the edit has not been blocked, which I can not understand). I remain blocked now because I participated in an RfAr last month, and no one claims that anything I said was uncivil or inappropriate. In preparing my comments I looked at the contributions of the user targeted by the RfAr. In four of them that user deleted content shortly after an AFD called for the content to be kept but merged. I restored the deleted content with edit summaries asking for an editor familiar with the issue to merge the important content. No one had claimed that there was anything inappropriate about those edits. They conformed to policy. After I commented in the RfAr I have had nothing further to do with the target. Now I am accused without cause of being a "stalker" and blocked due to four legitimate edits a month ago. When I returned to active editing, I said on my user page that I had been following Misplaced Pages discussions and arguments for a few months. Because I had been doing that. Yet somehow doing research and checking out situations rather than jumping in without much information and shooting my mouth off is bad behavior now. Until the false accusations of me being a banned user began, no one had ever suggested any of my editing violated any Misplaced Pages policies. There were editors who complained about violating policies especially over fair use imagees though. I would think that the work I have been doing in cleaning up BLP violations should count for something but instead bad faith is assumed in this dispute. Even though I was careful to make sure my edits matched up to the rules made the Arbcom which I already quoted below. If any editor is to be judged only by a carefully chosen 5 out of one thousand edits it would be easy to find a way to make an invalid case against them. I would also like to point out that the BLP violation in the edit that started this office is confirmed by Jimmy Wales, who recently and graciously apologized for directing the same basic term against the individual in question (link below). I again request to be unblocked. That is the only fair thing to do. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:40, 28 January 2009 (UTC) Jimmy Wales link

• User was blocked at 14:11, 27 January 2009 (UTC) for 48 hours. It is now more than 48 hours later. — Athaenara ✉ 14:40, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

You say you are Kafkaesque, if you are User:Kafkaesque you need to need to make this unblock request in this account name.—Sandahl (talk) 03:50, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

This request is a little tl;dr for my taste, but I should note that it appears he is stating that the situation is "Kafkaesque" as in "reminiscent of the writings of Franz Kafka" (see wiktionary entry.) I don't think he's admitting at ALL to being another user. However, I find his unblock request above to be somewhat ironically Kafkaesque in its own way. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:17, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Wouldn't recognize the term, no fan of Kafka, much too verbose.—Sandahl (talk) 14:16, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

So lets recap? Blocked for being a sock, shown to be completely and utterly false. Then the block reason was "oh because of that" something that wasn't part of the initial block... but hey he was blocked so he's GOTTA have a reason somewhere... lets look closely... add to that some hmmm how do you put it politely "not all that well read" admin makes a multiple sock offender out of it... quite funny. This bit made my day :) Oh and Kafka is not exactly a verbose writer ;) brilliant yes, verbose... not exactly the 1st thing that comes to mind. Jacina (talk) 12:46, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Of course, the part of your recap that you missed is that this user has been unblocked for three weeks at this point... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:49, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Arbcom case as mentioned

From Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Tobias_Conradi

6.2 While users have wide discretion to use that space as they see fit, it is the Committee's understanding of present communal "best practice" and consensus, that lists of fault-finding diffs, users described as "problem users", negative postings, and other matters of a generally uncollegial kind, should be written only if needed, kept only for a limited period, and only for imminent use in dispute resolution or other reasonable and short term dispute handling. They should not be allowed - deliberately, through passage of time, good faith, wilful allusion, or neglect - to create some kind of perennial "hall of shame" or list of "disapproved, shunned or negatively viewed users".

6.6 The Arbitration Committee affirms that it will not usually consider users who blank or (if necessary) delete such matters in user space, to have abused their editing or administrative access, provided:- the content was broadly of the types above, the deletion or blanking was in good faith, discussed (if possibly "live"), not excessive, and the matter handled courteously and reasonably, with administrative deletion avoided unless either egregious, agreed by usual processes, or historic revisions are being persistently linked (on or off wiki).

Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:22, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

From request for clarification of the same case, arbitrators statements that directing such comments at specific people crosses the line:

My analysis is that the statement in context would definitely be read as Bedford's own opinion put into a crassly extreme form, but that no-one would seriously read it as a literal statement. It is borderline but I would incline to the view that we cannot insist on its removal. This is partly because, in applying the complained-of remarks generally without naming the users, it is difficult to read it as personally insulting. Users unfamiliar with the dispute, intrigued by the use of such a forceful description, are far more likely to hold it against Bedford especially if they investigate the circumstances. I think in his best interests he should rephrase his remarks, but I strongly suspect that it is his own reputation that will suffer if he choses not to do so. Sam Blacketer (talk) 23:08, 20 December 2008 (UTC) Note: Our newbie arb hats aren't fully on but we're being asked to comment...I agree with Brad and Sam. While Bedford's comment is highly distasteful to many in the community, it is not directed at anyone specific and is in his own user space. If it were a directed comment, I support removing it. As it is, it's primary negative affect is to the person that wrote it. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:05, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

That is just last month!

From the similar request for comment on Law Lord:

Outside view by Fred Bauder Discourtesy is an increasing problem on Misplaced Pages. Lack of courtesy has driven a number of editors away from Misplaced Pages. An assertion by an editor who has departed that the reason they left was lack of courtesy is acceptable. A personal attack would involve not only identifying the person, but an attack that is personal, not merely an assertion that Misplaced Pages policy was not followed. We should not create a situation where not only is the policy violation tolerated, but even mention of it is forbidden.

Users who endorse this summary:

Fred Talk 13:33, 21 December 2008 (UTC) Law Lord (talk) 14:37, 21 December 2008 (UTC) Kim van der Linde at venus 16:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC) ++Lar: t/c 16:32, 21 December 2008 (UTC) This is really not problematic at all, and removing and protecting the user page(!) to remove that sentence is just plain absurd. --Conti|✉ 19:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC) PhilKnight (talk) 19:10, 21 December 2008 (UTC) Davewild (talk) 19:11, 21 December 2008 (UTC) MikeHobday (talk) 19:42, 21 December 2008 (UTC) --NE2 20:00, 21 December 2008 (UTC) Cheers dude (talk) 20:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC) Cla68 (talk) 23:30, 21 December 2008 (UTC) Agree with Conti. لennavecia 15:41, 22 December 2008 (UTC) The best defense again libel/slander is the truth. Are there rude admins? Yes. Are there abusive admins? Yes. Are there admins who should lose the bit? Hell yes. Is it possible that Law Lord is in fact tired of dealing with them? Yes. Case closed.---Balloonman PoppaBalloon 15:57, 22 December 2008 (UTC) Ray (talk) 18:21, 22 December 2008 (UTC) --Smashvilletalk 20:13, 22 December 2008 (UTC) SIS 23:06, 22 December 2008 (UTC) —Locke Cole • t • c 10:26, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:29, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Jimbo

You may be pleased to know that Jimmy Wales has made comments supportive of you in relation to your efforts to remove unacceptable comments from Calton's user page and has suggested that the admin who blocked you might want to reconsider his position as an admin (not directly related to your blocking but still related to this matter). Then again you may already know or you may not care. I thought I'd mention it anyway given the bizarre way you were treated over this. 87.254.80.49 (talk) 23:39, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

You do realize that by starting this ANI with regards to Calton, that you have put yourself squarely in Guy's cross hairs. Be careful, they will now try to spin this so that Calton comes off as the victim here, not the aggressor. I suggest you bring this matter straight to Jimbo. 78.102.139.114 (talk) 10:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

I told you so, they are turning this into "Calton is the victim" and right on cue Guy jumped in. They are also claiming you are the banned Truthcrusader person, of course no one will run a checkuser to verify or disprove it. again, take this to Jimbo. 78.102.139.114 (talk) 14:30, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

See? With all the BS flying around about Calton claiming you are Truthcrusader, the initial reason WHY you filed the ANI is lost forever. Also lost is the two personal attacks he made a few days ago on two other editors.78.102.139.114 (talk) 00:08, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Kate Jackson

Hello. With regard to your edits to the Kate Jackson article, specifically with regard to your removal of the information regarding Jackson's two treatments for cancer, it seems as though you don't understand the purpose of editing. If you're interested in being a constructive editor rather than a destructive one, you might want to consider that the appropriate edit here would not be to remove the uncited material, but to A) find a citation yourself for uncited information, or B) placing a cite tag on that particular sentence or section.

If you are interested enough in an article to edit it, and have the time to enter the edit page and make the edit, it seems as though you would have the time to Google search "Kate Jackson" "breast cancer" and add the reference yourself. As I read that you do your editing work during time at a library, it would seem a greater degree of source information would be available to you there than the average person, as libraries typically subscribe to paid news sites. Barring this, you should take note of the other information on the page relevant to your edit: the Category:breast cancer survivors page links to the Kate Jackson article, and this is evident from that category's tag in the Jackson article. But what is the value to you or another reader of removing this fact from her biography, and from the list of cancer survivors?

Kate Jackson was treated for breast cancer in 1987 and again around 1991. While the first bout was something she kept secret, the second made her decide to make her health publicly known, resulting in her being the subject of a cover story in People magazine. She also underwent open heart surgery in 1994 after discovering she had been born with an Atrial septal defect. She has been active in spreading awareness of both conditions. Please take an interest in the subjects of your edits; when they are clearly not vandalism, spend at least the same minute or two searching for a source as you would editing the material out. If you don't care enough to do so, the answer is to place a cite tag or to walk away from the article. A better article is not made by the removal of accurate and citable information. Removing the information without giving other editors the heads-up that a source is required means that your diminishment of the article is unlikely to attract the attention of editors who can do the job you choose not to. Abrazame (talk) 01:22, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Azzareya Curtis

Hello. I saw you previously prodded Curtis' article as NN and for having no reliable sources, so I just thought I'd let you know I AfD'd it for basically the same reasons the other day, if you wanted to join in. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Azzareya Curtis  Mbinebri  16:54, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Robert Mihaly

Thank you for your contributions to the Robert Mihaly AfD page. I agree with your feedback! Carolinequarrier (talk) 23:53, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Your "Strong keep" on girlfriend of aristocrat

Hiya Hullaballoo, I read your "Strong Keep" for the Axelsson Living persons bio, and I'd have to disagree. Reading thru the Swedish and German papers, she has no relationship to the Danish royal house but her boyfriend (they aren't engaged) does, distantly. (I do a lot of royalty stuff and it's hard to keep the "pretty princess!" fandom from swamping Wiki.) Her books aren't notable and the stuff that's in those articles is basically fluff that's paid public relations. There are literally thousands of minor German princes populating the country so I can't see why the girlfriend of one of them gets a Wiki page. Most of the supporting documentation is like reading the National Enquirer only with worse errors; for instance, B Bladen has her as non-English speaking although she was born, raised, and educated in the US through high school. Anyway, she looks pretty with makeup and her boyfriend must really like her, but I'm not seeing that as notable. Best to you, PR (talk) 01:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Dan Schlund

The decision to delete the article Dan Schlund is now being reviewed. You have been sent this message because you have previously been involved in the AfD discussion(s) concerning this article. If you are interested in the review discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2009 April 3. Thank you. Esasus (talk) 15:45, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Krystle Lina´s article

I undid to my last edition the article Krystle Lina because the references has been deleted, and after has been added the deletion quote, but if equal you think the article need more notabillity contact me again --AchedDamiman ([[User talk:AchedDamiman|talk]]) 23:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Articles Jessicka & Clint Catalyst

Hello User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz- I writing in regard to your edits on articles Jessicka & Clint Catalyst, specifically with regard to your removal of information. It seems as though you don't understand the purpose of editing. If you're interested in being a constructive editor rather than a destructive one, you might want to consider finding the appropriate reference links rather then just removing entire subjects making the articles less factual. In the future please place a cite tag or leave the article "as is". A better article is not made by the removal of accurate and citable information. Removing the information without giving other editors the heads-up that a source is required means that your diminishment of the article is unlikely to attract the attention of editors who can do the job you choose not to.

I am contacting you in good faith and hope that in the future you will follow wikipedia policy!

thanks, Xtian1313 (talk) 18:40, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Please familiarize yourself with WP:BLP, WP:RS, and WP:INDISCRIMINATE before criticizing editors who are attempting to enforce those policies. As another user commented on the article you say is about your wife earlier today, a Misplaced Pages article is "not an opportuinty to spam Wiki with everything related to her." Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:53, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I have stated several times that Jessicka is my wife - examples here: here: & here:

Understand, I am not being uncivil. I am not debating whether promotional material should be on anybody's wikipedia page. Removing links wasn't even your edit. See here: I am fine with the edits made by User:Piano non troppo, as it is a page about a person and there's no need to link her bands. Please don't deflect. I am stating facts. I am asking you to be a constructive editor rather than a destructive one. I am asking you to consider that the appropriate etiquette here would not be to remove the un-cited material, but to A.) find a citation yourself for uncited information, or B.) placing a cite tag on that particular sentence or section.

If you are interested enough in an article to edit it, and have the time to enter the edit page and make the edit, it seems as though you would have the time to Google search . If you are just there to remove material then it is obvious that you have some sort of COI with these articles.

As far a User:Tallulah13's talk page goes please reread what I wrote. and I quote, "If you ever need a third party opinion ( for articles I don't have a COI with) please feel free to hit me up."

I do not know User:Tallulah13. I was being nice. Is being nice to somebody against wikipedia policy? I have not made edits on either Jessicka or Clint's pages. As far as I know User:Tallulah13 has not made edits on Jessicka's page. As far as I know User:Tallulah13 does not know my wife or Clint in real life. She said that my wife emailed her - ? Perhaps on Clint's behalf to say thank you?

In closing, I'm not spamming. I am not making edits. The links in question were not added by me. Is there another problem here that I don't know about? I came to you in good faith, if there's some sort of issue - please enlighten me before I involve others. All items that you've removed have NOW been sourced. Rather then look for the source yourself trying to expand the articles in question, you just removed entire sections! How is that constructive?

I am asking you nicely to please follow wikipedia policy. I am still familiarizing myself with wikipedia but I can tell when somebody has a clear COI when editing certain articles. I look forward to resolving this matter quickly, Xtian1313 (talk) 23:23, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Clint_Catalyst.2C_Jessicka.2C_and_COI-implicated_editors_who_refuse_to_abide_by_WP:RS_and_WP:BLP

Regarding your comments made here:

"I've been removing flagrantly inappropriate material from a small, interwoven set of articles about very minor-league "celebrities" involved in the LA club scene, mostly associated with buzznet.com."

My wife isn't an internet celebrity - she's a musician and artist. She has no association with buzznet.com. If you have some issue with her legitimacy, might I nicely suggest that you leave editing her wikipedia page to user(s) who have no COI and have neutral third party opinions. This reason is why I myself do not edit her page.

"Given that Tallulah13 claims to have photographed Catalyst and Jessica together in Germany recently , although all are based in LA, it seems fair to me to suspect they are associated.)"

The episode was filmed in LA not Germany.Germany's Next Topmodel, Cycle 4 You know what people say about assuming. A little research on certain topics goes a long way.

"A Misplaced Pages article is supposed to be encyclopedic, not an ungodly welding together of a Twitter archive, a set of press clubs, and a shrine to a minor-league celebrity built by his or her friends. The two principal articles involved are Clint Catalyst, where at least two-thirds of the "references" are to sources controlled by the subject or promoting businesses owned by his friends, and Jessicka."

I have no idea what promoting business you are talking about. The end of your ridiculous rant is utter nonsense. I don't appreciate what you are alluding to. I am telling you it's simply not true. I am coming to you in good faith. If you have some issue with my wife, Clint Catalyst, or anybody whom you assume they are friendly with being legitimate and deserving wikipedia pages, might I suggest that the best course of action is for you to allow user(s) who can be 100% neutral, fair, and willing to do research to edit their articles.

Xtian1313 (talk) 15:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Christie Brinkley

Please, do not post silly things as you did on my talk page. Vanthorn (talk) 16:23, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry you think complying with WP:RS and WP:BLP is silly. Perhaps if you reread them your opinion would change. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:39, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Vanthorn, my advice is just to ignore him. Hullaballoo has a reputation for trolling Wiki articles and deleting absolutely anything and everything that isn't cited to his standards, rather than simply citing it himself, all the while continually invoking various Misplaced Pages policies to defend his agenda and making bad faith suggestions such as "you need to 'reread' such-and-such policy." This is referred to as "gaming the system" (WP:GAME), and he is what we call a destructive, rather than constructive, editor. In reality he is simply Wikilawyering, and he has been banned by admins in the past; he likely will be again. Best way to deal with him is simply to revert his edits.Cubert (talk) 06:53, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Gaming the system

I have stated who I am. This is the only name I sign in under. I have given an email address where I can be reached. I have not edited articles that I have a COI with. The fact you, User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz have a weird obsession in editing all things associated to my wife and myself.

1. 18:13, 2 May 2009 (hist) (diff) Clint Catalyst ‎ (→Acting: tangential material; reviews of minor films belong, at best, in the articles on the films) (top)
2. 18:12, 2 May 2009 (hist) (diff) Clint Catalyst ‎ (→Spoken Word: giving a speech at a political rally is not a "spoken word performance," even if it is an open-mike event)
3. 18:11, 2 May 2009 (hist) (diff) Clint Catalyst ‎ (→Model and stylist: claim not supported by cited page)
4. 18:10, 2 May 2009 (hist) (diff) Clint Catalyst ‎ (→Personal life: Source says someone else was the MC/officiant at the wedding with pictures showing it wasn't Clint Catalyst)
5. 18:09, 2 May 2009 (hist) (diff) Clint Catalyst ‎ (remove unconstructive changes made without regard to BLP and RS. Candace Bushnell didn't write the pilot to Sex and the City, btw, and the CBS evening news is generally known as having higher ratings)
6. 18:06, 2 May 2009 (hist) (diff) Daniel Franzese ‎ (revert; remove reinsertion of unreliably sourced text made by IP user with false edit summary) (top)
7. 18:04, 2 May 2009 (hist) (diff) N User talk:69.238.165.217 ‎ (vandalism warning, deletion of GFDL images on bad faith claim of invalid fair use) (top)
8. 18:01, 2 May 2009 (hist) (diff) Kyle Justin ‎ (RVV! Undid revision 287337344 by 69.238.165.217 (talk)) (top)
9. 18:00, 2 May 2009 (hist) (diff) Kyle Justin ‎ (Undid revision 287337608 by 69.238.165.217 (talk))
10. 17:59, 2 May 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Xtian1313 ‎ (→Sockpuppetry: new section) (top)
11. 17:44, 2 May 2009 (hist) (diff) User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz ‎ (update) (top)
12. 22:38, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Talk:Clint Catalyst ‎ (→Documentation on Clint Catalyst development deal: comments) (top)
13. 22:37, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) m Clint Catalyst ‎ (typo)
14. 22:36, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Clint Catalyst ‎ (add CBS news report)
15. 22:33, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Clint Catalyst ‎ (→Television: rewrite text to reflect reference)
16. 22:31, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Clint Catalyst ‎ (→Works: cut and pasted from his own website, both copyvio and not RS)
17. 22:29, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Clint Catalyst ‎ (→Notes: remove unreliable sources and sources that don't support claims)
18. 22:28, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Clint Catalyst ‎ (not a screenwriter, no produced screenplays or verifiable sales of screenplays)
19. 22:27, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Clint Catalyst ‎ (remove repetition)
20. 22:27, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Clint Catalyst ‎ (Not what the cited sources say, and they' don't meet WP:RS anyway Undid revision 286887166 by Jayson23 (talk))
21. 22:26, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Talk:Gidget Gein ‎ (→unsourced derogatory material: new section) (top)
22. 22:22, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Gidget Gein ‎ (→Career: unsourced, appears intended to demean) (top)
23. 22:21, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Gidget Gein ‎ (→Career: unsourced material laced with blp violations)
24. 22:20, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Gidget Gein ‎ (→Career: tangential, unreliably sourced to geocities fansite)
25. 22:20, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Gidget Gein ‎ (→Career: barely disguised insult)
26. 22:19, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) m Gidget Gein ‎ (→Career: obvious blp violation)
27. 22:19, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Gidget Gein ‎ (→Career: obvious blp violation)
28. 22:18, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Gidget Gein ‎ (→Early life: refs reqd)
29. 22:18, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Gidget Gein ‎ ("Gidget" was not an actress.)
30. 22:16, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Miguel Rascón ‎ (→Trivia: remove unsourced & mostly unencyclopedic trivia section) (top)
31. 22:14, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Betsey Johnson ‎ (remove borderline advertising for her rental property and unnecessary headline)
32. 22:13, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) m Betsey Johnson ‎ (→How she started: unsourced namedropping and promotion)
33. 22:12, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Betsey Johnson ‎ (→How she started: remove namedropping)
34. 22:11, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Kevin Haskins ‎ (→History: ref reqd) (top)
35. 22:11, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) m Betsey Johnson ‎ (→How she started: style)
36. 22:10, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Kevin Haskins ‎ (→Trivia: unsourced trivia sectioon)
37. 22:09, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Kevin Haskins ‎ (→History: self-promotional, w no reliable sources)
38. 22:08, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Daniel Franzese ‎ (→Curator: sourced to press release and deadlink, no indication of encyclopediac significance)
39. 22:07, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Kevin Haskins ‎ (→History: prune unsourced/OR, ref reqd)
40. 22:06, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Kevin Haskins ‎ (→History: remove subjective/promotional/unsourced OR, ref reqd)
41. 22:05, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Kevin Haskins ‎ (→History: no sources, subjective/promotional/OR)
42. 22:04, 30 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Kevin Haskins ‎ (unsourced, subjective/promotional/OR)
43. 18:16, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Marion Peck ‎ (→History: remove unsourced and semisourced namedropping, other ref reqd) (top)
44. 18:15, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Rob Campanella ‎ (→The Quarter After: self-promotional spam)
45. 18:14, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Louise Post ‎ (→Personal life: promotional namedropping) (top)
46. 18:12, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Thee Heavenly Music Association ‎ (→Biography: unsourced/subjective/OR)
47. 18:11, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Chris Vrenna ‎ (→Career: remove lengthy unsourced discussion, other ref reqd)
48. 18:10, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Chris Vrenna ‎ (→Career: 3d party spam)
49. 18:09, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Terri Nunn ‎ (ref reqd)
50. 18:08, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Terri Nunn ‎ (promotional namedropping)
51. 18:07, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Jennifer Syme ‎ (→Early Life and Career: unsourced, intrusive personal information, violates BLP re 3d party) (top)
52. 18:06, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Jennifer Syme ‎ (→Early Life and Career: name-dropping)
53. 18:06, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Mark Ryden ‎ (→History: name-dropping, unreliably sourced and subjective)
54. 18:05, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Mark Ryden ‎ (→History: 3d party self-promotional spam)
55. 18:04, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Mark Ryden ‎ (→History: add a verb)
56. 18:04, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Mark Ryden ‎ (→History: subjective, unsourced, semispammy)
57. 18:03, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Mark Ryden ‎ (→History: promotional, subjective, apparent copyvio)
58. 18:02, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Mark Ryden ‎ (unreliably sourced and promotional in tone)
59. 18:01, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Mark Ryden ‎ (→History: spam images intended to promote band, not significant examples of artist's work, not really compliant with WP:FU)
60. 18:00, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Gottfried Helnwein ‎ (→Personal life: namedropping, main event already mentioned in article)
61. 17:57, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Kinderwhore ‎ (clean up language) (top)
62. 17:56, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Kinderwhore ‎ (→History: remove long section without reliable sources as OR, blp issues as well)
63. 17:55, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Kinderwhore ‎ (rearrange slightly)
64. 17:53, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Roman Dirge ‎ (→Animation: unsourced 3d party promotional (borderline spam))
65. 17:52, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Lisa Loeb ‎ (→Style: unsourced, spammy if not dubious)
66. 17:51, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Lisa Loeb ‎ (→Style: ref reqd, remove name-dropping)
67. 17:51, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Lisa Loeb ‎ (→Recording career: unsourced, bordering on OR)
68. 17:50, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Lisa Loeb ‎ (refs reqd)
69. 17:49, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Lisa Loeb ‎ (ref reqd)
70. 17:48, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Cherie Currie ‎ (promotional name-dropping) (top)
71. 17:47, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Cherie Currie ‎ (not encyclopedic)
72. 17:47, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Cherie Currie ‎ (refs reqd)
73. 17:45, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Cherie Currie ‎ (unsourced and spammy)
74. 17:44, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) American McGee's Alice ‎ (→Audio: unsourced, appears self-promotional)
75. 17:43, 25 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Kevin Haskins ‎ (→History: 3d party self-promotion)
76. 22:38, 15 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Jack Off Jill ‎ (→History: change text to reflect what source actually says) (top)
77. 22:36, 15 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Jack Off Jill ‎ (→History: unsourced/OR)
78. 22:36, 15 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Jack Off Jill ‎ (→History: not supported by cited source)
79. 22:35, 15 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Jessicka ‎ (→Jack Off Jill 1992-2000: fails RS as source is geocities page; even if source were RS, cites prediction as fact)
80. 22:34, 15 April 2009 (hist) (diff) Jessicka ‎ (→Jack Off Jill 1992-2000: not supported by cited source, apparently not true)

I believe that you are Gaming the system.

Xtian1313 (talk) 21:55, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

• Agreed. This user has been continuously vandalizing the Clint Catalyst page under false claims related to Misplaced Pages policies, that certainly seem like what that page describes. Granny Bebeb (talk) 14:26, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

• Yes, he/she MOST DEFINITELY has a COI with all of these articles/individuals. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz makes far more destructive edits that actual useful contributions. I hope that some wikipedia editors with more experience than I have can help resolve this inappropriateness.Tallulah13 (talk) 16:52, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

I am betting that he is some homeless guy since he says that he hangs out in libraries and that is where he gets his internet access. Thats the kind of thing that a homeless guy would do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.179.175.187 (talk) 10:37, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I've been watching this all unfold for a while now. I am a fan of a lot of the people listed on Hullaballoo Wolfowitz's edit list. I agree he/she certainly has a COI with all of these articles/individuals. I'm really not sure why a moderator or administrator isn't doing something about this person as they truly are being destructive on a lot of well written wikipedia pages. Parenttrap (talk) 15:46, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Suggested by User:Jayron32 here - This is my one and only account. Please feel free to check my IP address. Parenttrap (talk) 17:17, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I am inclined to agree. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz has repeatedly deleted additions to a biography, eventhough my sources were cited. He never contributes to the discussion talk page, but only leaves vague inaccurate remarks in the description of his edits. I have tried multiple versions and even other users on the discussion page have not agreed with his edits. Where do we go with problems like this?Cobyjak 01 (talk) 00:01, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

This may help...?

Hey Hullaballoo! I believe this will be of interest to you: User_talk:AuburnPilot#Help. Essentially, User:Xtian1313 is attempting to out you as being me or my boyfriend. Obviously, for one, that's just not true, outing people is against wiki policy. User:Xtian1313 outed me and attempted to out User:Snuppy as someone, a while ago, and has been repeatedly informed that this is against policy. I believe that the person behind User:Xtian1313 has a long history of editing articles under various revolving IP's and usernames, including User:KurtneyLovelace and User:RickeyGoodling. There is a history of articles related to Scarling and the core member Jessicka being built up/promoted by these IP's/usernames while articles of "perceived enemies" have been continusously torn down with negative/unnecessary/unproductive edits, since day one. These IP's have also included the names of Scarling and Jessicka everywhere on wikipedia, essentially promoting/building up this person/band everywhere, all over wikipedia, even on the page for Silver Lake, California!

Not to junk up your page with personal experiences, but my boyfriend Kyle Justin was in their band, and his former bandmates (the 2 core members) do not like him, and neither does the person behind all these edits.  ::clears throat:: I created a profile for him last year (Kyle Justin) before we were together and before I was in his band, not really understanding the policies of wiki involving conflicts of interest. I've since been outed/outed myself. And, myself and a good friend of mine, who created the articles related to Skeleteen, no longer use the same account. I realize now I have been in violation of wiki policies before, and have made a concerted attempt to not violate them again. In any event, the articles for Kyle Justin, TC Smith, and Robin Moulder (all people this person doesn't like) have been torn down repeated/obsessively since they were put up. It's all in the history. Thank you for reverting the most recent edits to the Kyle Justin page done by this person, as it's obviously the same person doing unproductive/destructive/possibly hateful things. Even if the photos need to be taken down (I don't know), it's not right for that user to be gaming the system. Kyle even came on here on User:Chzz's talk page to ask if someone could delete the article about him, because he doesn't want to be lumped into a category with the fame-junkies/minor league "internet celebrities"/wannabes. (You can find that here: User_talk:Chzz/Archive_5#deleting_article_on_me.3F.) He got permission from Chzz to delete defamation of character/libel/legal threats and false accusations against him by User:Xtian1313 on Chzz's talk page, but was unsuccessful at having his article deleted, as Chzz says it conforms to the notability standards. In any event, I hope some of this will help you out... you can delete all this to clean up your page. Just trying to help you out with more history on this situation. There are a lot more links I could send you for more information, if you like. (I honestly don't know if any of this helps.)

Anyway, thanks for looking out. It's about time. User:Snuppy and I have talked about doing a user check on this person for a while (go here to see that: User_talk:Snuppy#Check_user). I checked all the IP's you listed against the ones I have, they all go back to the same location (the precise longitude and latitude) in Los Angeles, California. It's been a long time coming... I believe it's obvious that this all comes down to one person and a user check isn't even needed to see that. Honestly, I would love for a user check to be done on myself just to prove that I haven't done ANYTHING to the pages related to her (Jessicka) or Scarling... I could care less about their articles, as I do not ever want to associate with people like that, anymore, and neither does my boyfriend.  :) Matt –  Godblessyrblackheart  (talk)  02:06, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Question on Clint Catalyst Reverts

I am wondering how listing books that Mr. Catalyst has authored with ISBN numbers is considered WP:RS or WP:BLP. I am just curious as I personally see no problem with these edits. - NeutralHomer • Talk • May 5, 2009 @ 17:07

It was cut-and-pasted from Catalyst's own website, with ISBNs added, so it fails WP:RS for lack of independent reliable 3d party sourcing as well as raises copyright problems. It bore a marked resemblance to a list of books Catalyst was pushing in his website store, so it was promotional. A laundry list of non-notable short stories anthologized in non-notable anthologies doesn't belong in an encyclopedia article, unless it's for a world class writer like Jorge Luis Borges. Granny/Amber/Tallulah is editing in concert with Catalyst, for promotional purposes, and it's a bad idea to encourage her. Nobody else does. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 23:15, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

First of all, that's a load of malarkey! Authored books, are authored books, regardless of if you think this is for promotional purposes. Second of all, I don't know how you know my real name is Amber - that is even more proof that YOU have a COI with editing Catalyst's page and need to STOP. And lastly, I have no damn clue who this Granny person is, but they are NOT me. I've no reason to lie about that. I openly admit that Amber/Tallulah is the same person (and that is me). I'm NOT making major edits to the Clint Catalyst article anymore. Only very small things when I see something tiny. So, your snarky little comment of not encouraging me is asinine (just like you).76.229.108.103 (talk) 00:44, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

• Not only am I not Tallulah/Amber(?), the list was not "cut and pasted" as you continuously claim. If you'll notice, comparing them to the list on his website, some of the books don't even have the full titles listed on the website. Also, I did not see a store on his website when I looked. Catalyst is a well known author, there is no reason to omit entries from his bibliography which are well documented. If you think the books need more 3rd party sourcing than just ISBN numbers, add the citation needed tag instead of making destructive edits. Granny Bebeb (talk) 04:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Regardless if it is copied, with the ISBN numbers added, that makes it reliable. ISBN numbers are as reliable as it gets. - NeutralHomer • Talk • May 6, 2009 @ 06:11

Thanks, that's what I figured. This guy has a serious COI issue with the article, and it's going to take some work to get it back to a complete state. I'm going to go add these back now. Granny Bebeb (talk) 11:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, do you know what in the world everyone is claiming your COI is with the article? I've warned User:Tjcrowley to stop with the blatant reverting but I think we need a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard to get some sanity on this. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 01:16, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I have no clue what they think the conflict is. If I remember it right, it began with Xtian1313, who insisted that my removing unsourced/unreliably sourced information from the Jessicka article was evidence of COI. Then the other buzznet folks picked it up. They throw accusations around pretty much insiscriminately. Check out this sockputter accusation, claiming that User:Bali ultimate is the same user as me. Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Hullaballoo_Wolfowitz/Archive Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:56, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I think it needs to go to the COIN noticeboard. They seem to be implying I have a COI too now. It's clear someone has told them just enough to be annoying. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Ann Jillian source removal

You removed one citing source representing actress Ann Jillian and declared it unreliable. For what particular reason?

UWEC School Classs at 173.26.80.178 (talk) 01:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Whosdatedwho.com is a gossip site, based primarily on user contributions, without any demonstrated practice of or reputation for fact checking. It therefore fails the requirements of WP:RS, which presents Misplaced Pages's reliable source policy in some detail. At best, sites like that are tertiary sources at best, and generally to be avoided. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:57, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Lenora Claire -- COI and Sockpuppets

Dear Hullaballo,

I notice that you, too, have been trying to clean up the Lenora Claire article which -- when I stumbled on to it -- read rather more as a press release. In reviewing the edit history I see SPA LenoraClaire has been active in editing it as has a Los Feliz Los Angeles ip which I suspect to be controlled by Ms Claire. Most recently another ip vandalised the talk page to delete a COI note I added. Do you think it worth reporting these socks or protecting the page or something else? Bigdaddy1981 (talk) 17:48, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Clint_Catalyst COI concerns

I have posted a note at Misplaced Pages:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#Clint_Catalyst about the COI concerns with Clint Catalyst. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:49, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Jessicka, Christian Hejnal, Scarling./Sockpuppet_investigations/Xtian1313

Now that the sock puppet investigation you started has come to a conclusion, "Conclusions I'm not seeing evidence here that proves or is strongly suggestive of a link between Parenttrap and Xtian1313, or evidence that 3RR or other tenets of WP:SOCK were violated by the IP editing if the IP and Xtian1313 are the same user. Please refile if you find further evidence, and present that evidence using diffs specifically. Nathan T 16:01, 18 May 2009 (UTC) This case has been marked as closed. It will be archived after its final review by a Clerk or Checkuser."

I am coming to you in good faith- inorder to ask you not to edit articles dealing with my wife Jessicka, myself, (Christian Hejnal), or my band Scarling. (including albums).

I myself am not editing these articles, for obvious reasons. Please allow editors who do not have a conflict of interest with these subjects and can maintain a neutral point of view to edit these articles. fair? Whatever issues you have with me, please feel free to email me at scarlingmusic@aol.com so we may take them off wiki. Thank-you. Xtian1313 (talk) 17:41, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Administrators noticeboard COI_User:Hullaballoo_Wolfowitz

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:AN#COI_User:Hullaballoo_Wolfowitz Xtian1313 (talk) 01:06, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Your PRODs of various porn actors within a short timespan

Hi Hullaballoo Wolfowitz. You have prodded a number of these articles within a short timespan (minutes). It seems likely that you have made no attempt to follow WP:BEFORE. A number of the pages do make claims to notability, a porn star with a Magna cum laude university degree, a porn start with a black belt in tae-kwondo and bronze medal from Junior Olympics, a pornstar which has appeared in every major men's magazine, a porn star with a whoppin' film count (161), sprinkled with nominations within that film industry, some multiple; and a person (photographer) for whom I think the bio-porn is not even relevant.... It raises the probability that someone with an interest in the topic could establish notability. I'm therefore not at all sure that your nominations are uncontroversial and hence suitable for PROD. Reading some of the posts above also leads me to believe, that it is defensible for me to revert those PRODs, which I have done. Power.corrupts (talk) 21:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I too am getting the impression from above that you may be attempting to moralize based on your personal philosophy. That has no place in Misplaced Pages. If you don't like certain topics, please feel free to stay away from those pages. Lexlex (talk) 00:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

An3

I've removed an edit of yours from AN3 . The section is closed, and your edit was unhelpful. Please seek to avoid inflammatory language William M. Connolley (talk) 20:49, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

WP:COIN

Hello Hullaballoo. I took a look at the case you recently filed at WP:AN3. If you can establish that people connected with the subject are editing their article, you could file at WP:COIN. This could be a better venue than AN3. Due to the nature of your work, you may wind up sounding combative. But if COI is calmly assessed, reasonable remedies can be put in place, oftentimes by agreement. Admin action is possible in cases where nothing else seems to work. EdJohnston (talk) 20:56, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

RE: Removal of valid AIV report without blocking vandal -- why

I swear I did not do that. Someone is messing with my account. Even though I have changed my password. ] (talk · contribs)☺ 18:40, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Semi

I've semi-protected your user page due to anon vandals. William M. Connolley (talk) 08:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

RE:Swancookie

I'll keep it short with you as I did with Swancookie.

I have no interest or care as to what the ongoing dispute is concerning yourself and several other users.

My sole intent was to get all this into dispute resolution and stop cluttering up talk pages, message boards, and using helpme templates. That is all, I have no sides and I don't care to. Keegan (talk) 15:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Whatever your intent, it wasn't appropriate to give Swancookie a response that appeared to approve of clear personal attacks like "underhanded jerk." Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 15:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Point taken. Keegan (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: Blake Lively article

I never put spam links in any article. I actually just clicked the link and it took me to scans of a Nylon magazine article. How is that vandalism? If you're having trouble accessing the article, please take that up with the site manager, not me. Thanks. --MgCupcake (talk)

You put in links to a spamsite and claimed they were links to a legitimate source. That's never appropriate. Even if you hadn't intended to deceive anybody, 1)you should know that sites like that pose hazards to users (my antimalware software reported a stream of tracking cookies and other stuff coming from that site that does nothing but bad stuff to any legitimate user), and 2) the link violated multiple other Misplaced Pages policies/guidelines, like WP:LINKVIO and WP:CITE#SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT. It's also a site that requires registration, which is generally frowned on, since so many of such ssites (there are, of course, recognized exceptions) exist to harvest email addresses for sale to spammers. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 01:00, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

AN/I

Just so you know, you don't have to be an admin to mark a topic "resolved". -t'shael 01:54, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Maybe not, but a participant in an active debate certainly shouldn't shut it down in order to prevent another editor from responding. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:06, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Illegal Link Deletion

We have proof that you are abusing your powers and privileges in regard to external link deletion. Please leave the name of your supervisor so way may send said proof forward. I hope you learn a lesson from this and cease to use your own personal bias to hurt the wikipedia project. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GlobalCorp (talk • contribs)

I've left a comment on this editor's page. Threatening or trying to intimidate another editor is not allowed here . Dayewalker (talk) 20:03, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Julie Benz

Hi, I declined your request for PP of Julie Benz, but you should certainly renominate it if the vandalism starts up again. I believe it is only one disruptive editor, which should be able to be handled through warnings/blocks. It would be great if you could issue warnings as well. I won't always be logged in, so again issue warnings and feel free to renominate it if the vandalism continues. Thanks for your help! Plastikspork (talk) 22:32, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Jerri Manthey

Thanks, it looks much better now. Plastikspork (talk) 16:00, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Courtney Culkin

How do you justify deleting my entry but retaining the entry about her appearing on Playboy TV? Kuzosake (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:14, 15 July 2009 (UTC).

Because it made unreferenced health-related claims in a BLP, because the version of the interview on the Maxim site doesn't identify her as the playmate, but only as "Courtney" (not "Cortney"). Absent a verifiable source, we're left with only your opinion that "Courtney" is the playmate "Courtney Rachel Culkin," and though that evaluation might turn out to be true, it doesn't meet Misplaced Pages standards for verifiability. The Playboy TV claim and other unsourced stuff in the article could also be removed, but my edit today came while I was reviewing recent changes, rather than the entire article. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. I remember the version in the magazine didn't mention her as a Playmate either. I guess the interview on their site didn't show a picture? I remember when I saw it...I had to do a double-take. It was definately her, but I guess since it doesn't meet the Misplaced Pages standards then oh well. Thanks for clarifying...Kuzosake Kuzosake (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:22, 16 July 2009 (UTC).

Opinion requested

If you don't mind, I'd appreciate your input on this topic: Template talk:Infobox adult female#Official website in infobox and ext. links section

Thanks, Dismas| 03:53, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Good Catch!

Thank you for catching the Jodie Foster mis-edit re. Yale School of Drama cat. That editor also added the same cat to the Meryl Streep article. I don't know if it's true in Streep's case, but I've asked the editor via User:Talk page to stop removing the Yale U. cat. Even if Streep or any megastar attended the Drama school, readers may still look for them in the Yale U. cat as well.
 —  ^) Paine Ellsworth (^  15:34, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Mayer Brown

Just a friendly note on Mayer Brown. I wasn't comfortable deleting this as a speedy, since there were non-infringing versions and, as you rightly pointed out, it was a complicated case. Instead, I took a chainsaw to it and rewrote everything outside the info box. Mind taking a look and letting me know if it works for you? Thanks! --Fabrictramp | talk to me 23:21, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Looks fine to me, good job! Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 23:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

David L Cook

Thank you for catching the issue with that award. Cook has won an Emmy with NBC and I thought that was the one. I really do appreciate you catching it and fixing it for me. Canyouhearmenow 13:21, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Questions for Hullaballoo Wolfowitz

Hi, thanks for looking over the Dana Delany article. But I wanted to know further why you edited out from Dana's significant others people like Treat Williams and Henry Czerny. Yahoo Movies lists them both as significant others for Dana. And what source did you say was NNDB (and why do you think it's a bad source?) On the internet, I've found pictures of Dana with Treat Williams (standing close together). And my sense is the connection with Henry Czerny is real as well. How did you come to the conclusion that the sources which you removed were bad ones? Tomwsulcer (talk) 22:29, 23 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

NNDB not reliable, see Misplaced Pages:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard/Ongoing_BLP_concerns#NNDB_Notable_Names_Database and comments like Jimbo Wales's: "Why on earth should we consider it a valid source? It seems to me to be riddled with errors, many of which were lifted directly from Misplaced Pages"

news.absolutely.net is an aggregation sits which appears to get most of its content from WENN, which identifies itself as a celebrity gossip blog. Fails WP:RS

whosdatedwho.com and famouswhy.com are similar gossip sites which simply package and pass on content from sources that generally fail WP:RS. Check out the "partners" list for whosdatedwho, I don't think there's a single RS there. Famouswhy, in addition, styles itself a provider of "shocking" news, which should be taken as a warning sign.

I edited out all the "significant others" where all the sources for the relationship were unreliable. WP:BLP requires very sound sourcing for biographical claims, and these don't really relate strongly to Delany's notability. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:46, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Hullaballoo! I didn't know about those sources being unreliable and will watch out for them in the future and won't include them. I wrote down the bad sources and I'll try to avoid them in the future. It would be really cool if there was some kind of "source meter" so I could type in a source and see what Misplaced Pages thinks about it. In fact, while researching the Dana Delany article, I couldn't find anything substantive to show a link between Dana and Don Henley of the Eagles. I'm wondering if I could rewrite the line to just say something like "Dana has reportedly had a number of relationships with prominent men" but not list any names -- do you think this would be better? Plus, I'm wondering about possibly changing the organization of the article around rather substantially, but I want to seek the advice from others before doing anything major. Tomwsulcer (talk) 23:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

Oh, here is what I'm thinking about how to reorganize the Dana Delany article which I haven't done yet, but am asking your advice about:Tomwsulcer (talk) 23:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

I think the article is getting much better, the information is solid with excellent references, but the subcategories are somewhat off. There's a section called "Voice work" which interrupts the early career and later career stuff (but I agree with editors who think Dana's voice work is important and should be emphasized, although I don't think it should be included as a major section, but rather mixed into the chronological sections). But it's like the format switches gears mid-stream (sorry about mixing metaphors) from chronology to type of work (ie voice), and I hope we could get something which is more logically consistent, as well as helping readers find information that they need quickly. And I think all of it could be better organized somehow. I think most biographies have a chronological format, from early to current, and this is the best choice. I'm wondering: what categories can we have which keeps the chronological format while emphasizing the voice work? I've been researching this actress for some time now and my sense is that she's not a lightweight pretty face type actress but a serious, intense heavy-duty one who can master tough roles, a powerhouse who loves acting but sometimes gets snared in frivolous projects, and the consistent thing about her career is: a love of acting. That's what she loves. And I don't think things like friendships or causes should have their own section but rather should be included in the chronology when they're relevant and appropriate. But here's my sense of her career goes something like this -- Tomwsulcer (talk) 23:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

I. early life (birth, schooling) II. New York City -- breaking into the business

 Soap operas
 Broadway (critical reviews)
 Off-Broadway (critical attention)
 Key friendships and connections (Christopher Reeve, for example)

III. Early Hollywood years (TV guest starring spots, China Beach) -- establishing herself as a major actress

 TV guest starring spots (showcasing her talent)
 China Beach (should include: how did she get this role? should get its own paragraph I think, mentioning Emmys plus critical attention)
 Movies
 TV movies
 Voice work (The Batman/Superman, Lois Lane, fan reactions, critical acclaim -- Why Dana = major voice talent)

IV. Later Hollywood years -- pursuing acting

 More TV work (sitcoms that didn't get off the ground, critical reviews, etc)
 Other projects (narrating, Vietnam nurses, audio books)
 Guest spots on talk shows
 Dana-as-a-celebrity (being a presenter in awards shows, talk show appearances, interactions with fans)
 Causes (scleroderma, other causes)

V. Filmography VI. Awards VII. Notable achievements VIII. References

So, Hullabaloo, do you like this organizational scheme? I'm wondering what you think? I'm interested in getting feedback from excellent wikipedia editors such as yourself.Tomwsulcer (talk) 23:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

Your recent warning on User talk:Liverpoolshoes

Hi Hullaballoo Wolfowitz, I'd like to remind you to add your signature after any talk page posts or warnings so we know who you are ;-). Thanks. - Jeffrey Mall | Talk2Me | BNosey - 14:19, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

–Drilnoth (T • C • L) 13:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Cassidy Cruise

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Cassidy Cruise. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Misplaced Pages is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Cassidy Cruise. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:52, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

"See also" section at Fight Club

Hi there. I noted your comments in the edit summary for your removal of the entries from that section; to clarify, the discussion was not primarily about using Allmovie in the way that Erik implemented at Fight Club, but one over its suitability as an external link. The discussion petered out with no real conclusion—with no support, but also no consensus objection to such a use. I invite you to participate at Talk:Fight Club (film)#"See also" section, where your thoughts on Erik's intended use of the section would be appreciated. All the best, Steve  15:17, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Ilona Staller

I agree that Chicapedia is not a reliable source. I intend to delete all reference to it except where in one case where it reinforces another reference. Please let me finish editting before you begin. Thanks

International Museum of Women not a reliable source? Belfaast Telegraph? Even In-Out Star website clearly did fact checking on their article. I've improved the quality of this article, including citing everything, yet you continue to automatically revert, adding back drivel like "she lost her virginity at sixteen". Please look more in depth before you turn back improvements. 15:53, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Rebecca Scott

Hi, could you please explain to me why you removed my Rebecca Scott reference? How is this unreliable? It seems pretty reliable to me. Thanks! Asc85 (talk) 01:48, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

http://www.stlouis-strippers.com/ doesn't meet the requirements of WP:RS, and in particular doesn't meet the requirements of WP:BLP. It's a self-published source and isn't very different, for Misplaced Pages sourcing purposes, from a blog. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:29, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Camp Encounter (2nd nomination)

Excellent detective work there. —Sean Whitton / 16:44, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

And again - fantastic. —Sean Whitton / 22:07, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Redped

I am very sorry, for deleting things from Sophie Abelson, David Sturzaker & Michelle Lukes.

Redped

xx —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redped (talk • contribs) 14:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Removal of PROD from Roxy Panther

Hello Hullaballoo Wolfowitz, this is an automated message from SDPatrolBot to inform you the PROD template you added to Roxy Panther has been removed. It was removed by Chuthya with the following edit summary '(Undid revision 304803778 by KevinOKeeffe (talk) asserts notability)'. Please consider discussing your concerns with Chuthya before pursuing deletion further yourself. If you still think the article should be deleted after communicating with the 'dePRODer,' you may want to send the article to AfD for community discussion. Thank you, SDPatrolBot (talk) 23:05, 3 August 2009 (UTC) (Learn how to opt out of these messages)

re: SDPatrolBot

Hmmm, that was added (making it notify the first user to tag) per suggestions at the BRfA. It's to avoid warning a vandalism reverter (say, a user tags the article, another user blanks (removing the PROD) ClueBot reverts (restoring the PROD), another user removes the PROD, ClueBot gets notified. Not that that's important, just my little defence ;). Anyway, I'll look into a way to get around this (possible using the date the PROD was added, or something similar). Thanks for letting me know :) - Kingpin (talk) 23:23, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I know how I'll do it; I'll just check if the edit was revert or not. Problem should be solved some time tomorrow (before the next PROD run) :). Cheers - Kingpin (talk) 23:39, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Seeking your advice about the Gerald Celente article

Hi excellent Hullaballoo. Wondering if you'd advise me about an article. Many users feel the Gerald Celente article is a lopsided, one-way advertising piece for Celente, a gloom-and-doom forecaster and business consultant, talking head. Most "references" in the existing article were bogus -- didn't go anywhere. Sometimes the reference was for a newspaper, but clicking on it only led to the paper's website -- that kind of thing; but there were perhaps two fairly solid references also (NY Times; one more; The El Paso Times reference was bogus). So I was intrigued. What was going on? (continued) Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:31, 4 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

So I spent a day researching the guy -- about 8 hours -- getting solid information and referencing each line with a good source (major newspaper or magazines etc). What I found is that Celente is an author, does have a consulting business in Rhinebeck NY, makes rather wild (extremely negative) predictions about the whole economy that border on the scary & bizarre (food riots, depression, tax revolts etc) but these rarely seem to happen; but he also makes business predictions too about consumer behavior, DIY market, and his business predictions are often rather bland, more reasonable. He's a guest on radio & TV talk shows fairly regularly (2 references said he was on Oprah, and he probably was, but I'm not certain), and his predictions make newspapers periodically. See, it's not that hard to do this -- newspapers are rushed and underfunded and need quick entertaining quotes as fodder for articles. My guess is Celente uses the wild statements to get media attention and help him build for himself a consulting business in Rhinebeck and uses the publicity to help him win clients. I don't know how many clients he has or how extensive his business is (this is typically confidential and I won't find it in any source) -- I expect his consulting business is mediocre, but above average -- he's not McKinsey (since he spends much time courting the media) but he has an office with several employees so it's a functioning business (as best I can determine). Several rather prominent bloggers feel he's a fraud -- with no traceable history or proper schooling or background; one blogger named Ed Champion did a rather thorough study of him and concluded this (and I think these opinions should be in the wikipedia article for balance). I think Celente's more complex than this -- reading through his business predictions in 2006, I thought some were reasonable. One thing really flaky -- Celente would comment to a reporter "I successfully predicted the stock market crash of 1987", but there is no pre-1987 record in the media of him going on the record with such a statement; I really hunted but found nothing. My sense is he's always making gloom-and-doom predictions (so he probably DID make such a guess but its meaningless because he's always been gloomy); the flaky thing is that he then uses these newspaper stories of I-predicted-the-1987-crash as PROOF that he did in fact make these predictions. Anyway, I think this is how he climbed out of the pit of obscurity with this flaky stuff, and now he's a "future prognosticator"; in any event, he's an interesting guy, don't you think? (continued) Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:31, 4 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

So I rewrote much of the Celente article, based ONLY on solid stuff from good sources, referencing each line -- I took about 8 hours doing this. And I posted my re-edit. But some other editor reverted it back with the lackluster explanation that the blogger quotes rendered my effort worthless and said "go to the talk page first". (I did have comments on the talk page from earlier, but they were ignored). I'm wondering what to do here. Do you have any advice? I've posted comments on the reverting editor's talk page to try to resolve the dispute. I think my revised article is NPOV, And check out my revised version to see if you like it? Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:31, 4 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

While I agree that your revision of the article was an improvement, I think it came across (not unlike the original) as presenting too much original research. Because it both presented and evaluated Celente's track record, rather than using third-party sources to do the evaluation, it had serious sourcing problems. Misplaced Pages doesn't allow good original research, although a lot of it slips through on first review. (That's one of the difficulties in dealing with articles about crackpots; they tend to be ignored by reliable sources rather than refuted by them.) I've taken a healthy chunk of the inappropriate material out of the article this morning, but a great deal remains. I'll take another look at your version when I have more time, to see which parts can be salvaged. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:08, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I've reworked it too, adding stuff back in, and I hope you like the effort as it stands now (10:30pm Tuesday Aug 4 eastern US time). Not quite sure what you're getting at in talking about "original research", but I'll read over the original-research link (tomorrow) and try to make sense of it. I agree third-party sources doing the evaluating is best -- and all we do is report what the third-party evaluating source says. But suppose I find that there are, say, numerous appearances of Celente on talk radio and TV shows. But no third-party source SAYS that Celente has "appeared on numerous shows". Then, I'm not allowed to state what, to me, is obvious? Like, Celente appeared on numerous shows. I have references to these shows. Tomwsulcer (talk) 02:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

I think if we adhere to policy too strictly, we won't be able to say what's obvious, or tell the truth, that is, I don't think any encyclopedia article will be able to say much of anything, because there's so much interpretation involved in any kind of thought process. But I'll try harder to get at what you're saying. But I definitely see your point about crackpots. I don't think Celente is a true crackpot, but uses outlandish statements to get media attention (and help reporters sell papers) but his business consulting is much more mild. But you're right -- respectable outlets tend to ignore him. I still don't think it's "original research" for me to examine predictions he's made, and conclude that predictions about the economy tend to be dire and overly pessimistic (they are) while his predictions about specific business patterns (the DIY market) are more mild. I have references to both instances in which economic prediction X is dire, business prediction Y is more reasonable. There are references. So am I editorializing? Tomwsulcer (talk) 02:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

I read carefully over the "no original research" policy and I'm seeing what you're saying. And this policy is agreeable and sensible. What was especially informative was the example of how two facts, each referenced, could be used together to be "original research" and I'll watch for this in the future. Remember that the current Gerald Celente article has stuff in it that didn't originate from me -- and it looks like original research -- but I'll watch for it regarding myself. It's a smart policy, overall. The only area where I disagree with Misplaced Pages's policy is about excluding the "tiny minority" view -- I think in some cases these should be included, but labeled as such, and given very little weight (since they're held by VERY few people). Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

RE: comments at Worlds of Ultima AFD

you may be interested in this current conversation Ikip (talk) 04:50, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Dispute Resolution Process

Hello, Hullaballoo Wolfowitz. I've noticed that you have taken a step in the Dispute Resolution Process by posting in one of the dispute resolution forums. Please note that it is recommended that you advise the other party of your complaint filing so that they are aware of it, and so that they have a chance to respond.

If you have any questions, check out Misplaced Pages:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:27, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I do intend to do that, but the user posted that he's signed off for the night, and I want to cool off a little more to avoid posting something inflammatory. Is that OK, as a rule? Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 16:32, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

You're required to advise them when you open the WQA filing. All you have to do is say "Due to our recent issue, I have started a discussion at WP:WQA. I hope you'll provide input, thanks" ... or you can use the template {{subst:WQA-notice}} if you wish. See, it's nice and friendly. I do hope you have read the ongoing discussion at WQA since. You are also required to try and resolve the issue directly with the other editor before taking it to WQA, by the way. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 20:07, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

This edit: is unacceptable. You are, in my view, personalising this debate too much. Please don't do that sort of thing again. It may be helpful to review WP:COOL, because as BWilkins has pointed out, you're not working amicably to resolve the dispute you started, you're engaged in a series of moves that (in my view) are more escalatory than they are conciliatory. Please try to edit more collegially and in the spirit of working together and seeking consensus instead of editing so confrontationally. Even if you think that in your view the other party or parties is/are being confrontational. ++Lar: t/c 19:37, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Shuttee

Sorry about causing the extra work there. Must have copied over the same template twice and didn't notice. Thanks. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 16:34, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Nude celebrities on the Internet

An article that you have been involved in editing, Nude celebrities on the Internet, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Nude celebrities on the Internet (2nd nomination). Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message.  – iridescent 16:44, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Wait...

... you don't think Meryl Streep and Alyssa Milano could compete for the same role??? Gotta admit, that one was pretty amusing... (which role, by the way?) Nice to meet you. Tvoz/talk 19:28, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Orly Taitz (3rd nomination)

Hi, Hullaballoo Wolfowitz.

While I agree with the substance of what you say, please could you consider toning down some of the more extreme phrases?—S Marshall /_Cont 00:12, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I assume you're referring to the "tantrum" point, which reflects not only the nominator's behaviour at AFD but also his comments like these elsewhere. I think it's important to make clear to the nominator that even people who share his unhappiness over the way the 2d closure occurred find his current response beyond the pale. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:20, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with that. I just think it's possible to say it in a more collegial manner, that's all.—S Marshall /_Cont 00:45, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Archiving suggestion

Hey, just a quick note...your User talkpage comes up with a size warning for being too big. Have you thought of archiving it in order to reduce it? Have a look at the source code from my my talkpage on setting it up, or feel free to ask! (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 18:20, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Typo fix.

Thanks. :-) Jclemens (talk) 04:52, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Meggan Mallone

Hi. Regarding your edit here, I just wondered why you feel this source is unacceptable, as XBiz always indicate whenever their articles are a press release, such as here. Maybe your views could be incorporated into the guidelines at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Pornography#External links. Thanks. Epbr123 (talk) 16:04, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I reverted it before seeing this comment. XBIZ is very careful about not taking ownership of press releases unless their staff checks everything out. Second, Meggan Mallone was a mainstream model in high school. Mainstream as in non-porn, not mainstream as in famous or popular. If there truly is an issue about mainstream being misleading (as ip addresses have seemed to dispute), it can be restated to simply fashion model or commercial model. Morbidthoughts (talk) 17:07, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Hank Skinner article

Every reference source I added to the Hank Skinner article points to either an actual court document from the case, or an article in a legitimate newspaper. Where possible, I also added a link to the same court document or article at the Hank Skinner advocacy site. Both sides have referenced material to support their edits, often from the same document. The article is hardly "poorly referenced. Where claims are unsupported, citation needed tags have been added. It's not like the article has been in a constant state of flux. The people who made those claims should have an opportunity to provide whatever sourcing material they have. As for my edits, I stand by them 100%. grifterlake (talk) 01:58, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The article is very poorly referenced; many of the major claims are unsourced or cited to documents that do not actually support the claims. Much of the material you insist on adding back reflects your analysis of primary source documents, which is prohibited by Misplaced Pages policy against original research. The article also includes various completely unsourced allegations against persons living and dead, violating in some cases WP:BLP. Your version of the article, as other editors have noted, is essentially an advocacy piece on behalf of the prisoner, which violates Misplaced Pages's neutrality policy. And your repeated unfounded accusations of vandalism violate Misplaced Pages policies prohibiting personal attacks and requiring civility. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the applicable policies and conform to them, to avoid the loss of editing privileges. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:53, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. By merely tossing out the phrase and not backing it up with specific instances your complaint has no merit. First, since most of the documents are official court documents, the claims of both sides will most likely call upon the same documents for support, especially when it comes to testimony. The material I "added back" - actually restored after your vandalism, is not "my analysis", but the position of the prosecution and *supported* by the primary sources, which I might add again are for the most part public documents intended to document the adjudication of this case. If you look at the dates from the discussion page (or actually used the discussion page prior to resorting to vandalism) you will notice that the article was called an advocacy piece *before* I made my first edits. My edits reversed that tilt. If you include the "citation needed" tags I added to the claims tending toward innocence the article now clearly tilts against the advocacy position. In checking the dates on the history page you would have seen that many of the people who created the first drafts of the article are just now returning to the article after a year or more and have started in a serious manner to respond the new edits. As for "unfounded accusations of vandalism", I stand by that statement. If you were serious about editing that article you would have brought up your specific concerns, line by line if necessary on the discussion page, made public your suggestions for specific edits and allowed people to respond. You didn't do that. By your own words on your user page you blew in here after a long absence and reduced a 2000 word article to a blurb without so much as a heads up to those who have worked on it for the last several years. Can you do that? Sure. That's how Misplaced Pages works. But it works the same way on both sides of the street. The others and myself can change it back as easily as you can vandalize it. If you report me I need only to point to the chronological history of the edits, the discussion page of the article, myself and here. As it stands now, there is no way for someone to know which source you think is poorly sourced. The only "clue" is your cryptic line in the edit justification fields about poorly sourced claims. Even when your changes have been reversed you bring them back without further justification. So if you are serious about making that article better, join the process and work with the people who created it and changed it. What you did *is* vandalism, as evidenced by the way you went about it. grifterlake (talk) 03:41, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

It's clear from your comments that you haven't reviewed any of the applicable policies; no BLP with so many "citation needed" tags and unsourced comments, often accusations, regarding third parties, can fairly be described as anything but poorly sourced. Your accusations of vandalism towards me and other editors are unfounded, uncivil nonsense. You also have provided no justification for your deletion of the only information and referencing supporting any claim that the article subject is notable; unfortunately, domestic abuse killings are common and do not confer notability on their perpretrators (most of whom continue to assert their innocence file extend appeals in similarly nonnotable fashion). Further comments included incivility, personal attacks, or complete failure to address the relevant WP policy issues will be deleted from this page without any other response. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:05, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Rita Jenrette

To describe the Jenrette's sexual escapades as merely "events that transpired during their marriage" is ludicrously bland. Avoiding libel doesn't need to sound like a legal brief. In version you reverted was far more modest than the saucy stories she's written about herself. 02:47, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The fact that you find the standing text (which I didn't write) "bland" doesn't give you any justification for inserting unsourced commentary reflecting your subjective characterizations into the article. WP:RS, WP:V. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:54, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Two editors?

You premised your revert on two editors having objected to the material. They have not. Because it therefore rests on an erroneous premise, you should rescind your reversion immediately.- Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 17:17, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

User:Morbidthoughts deleted the same material yesterday , citing WP:PRIMARY in his edit summary. I'm not interesting in parsing his edit summary; he objected to the material, I object to the material, and that's enough to demonstrate that two editors objected to the material. So if anyone needs to "rescind" anything, it's you. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:23, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Your Comments

When you said that I hadn't left this user alone, I took that as a personal attack, because I have not done anything outside of Misplaced Pages policy. Frankly I did not target this user in any way, but merely did what I felt was necessary as an editor. When you looked through my edit history and publicized spelling mistakes that I made, I took it as a personal attack, because it really had no bearing on the discussion at hand. I don't expect people to be perfect and I expect that I too will make mistakes. What I don't expect is to have somebody attempt to embarrass me by pulling it out in a public forum. According to WP:PA, personal attacks are comments on contributors rather than content. Due to the fact that you commented on my occupation and edit history, I took this as an attack. I realize that this may not have been your intent, but it is how it came across. I was not calling your challenging my edits a personal attack. In fact you were correct that the article was not identical, which I did not notice when I typed that comment. I did notice it before the second time I created the redirect, and felt that it wasn't fundamentally different in terms of content determining notability. If you notice, the second conversion to a redirect happened three days after the article was recreated. So yes, I do feel that I afforded him time to improve the article before converting it back to a redirect. If you read the talk page, the editor didn't respond to anything that I had written, but rather just restated his point and undid my revision. My reason for tagging for speedy deletion was to get an administrator's opinion on the whole matter. I don't like edit wars, and I didn't want to be engaged in one. If the speedy was declined I would have left it be and tried to find sources. Which I actually did try to do before I converted to a redirect the first time and the second time. Sources such as & , which were all top listings on google, had some information, but either just connected him to HP Lovecraft or gave information that really didn't make him notable. For example, my great-great grandfather was considered a master plumber in his time. He was considered the top in his field in Pittsburgh and installed plumbing in many of the major buildings there. The info I have on him reads very similar to Whipple Van Buren Phillips. Does my ancestor merit an article any less because he's not related to anyone famous? My honest feeling is that he does not meet the criteria for inclusion as the article stands. I listed it at AFD to form consensus. I stated my opinion, and that's exactly what it is, an opinion. I'm not asking you to agree with me, and in fact I don't expect you to. What I am asking is that you understand where I'm coming from on this, and realize this is not something I did out of the blue to cause problems for another editor, but rather something I felt should be done based on my own research and experience. HarlandQPitt (talk) 23:57, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Network television schedules

Hi Hull,

Your input at Wikipedia_talk:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Per_station_television_schedules would be greatly appreciated. Firsfron of Ronchester 14:30, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Choice of word for Aubrey O'Day plastic surgery and dating Sean Combs rumors

Hello, Hullaballoo. The reason the word "denied" was not used to get the point across that she says these rumors are incorrect is because "deny/denied" falls into the Misplaced Pages: Words to avoid category in this case. I have to state that it does make it sound as though she is lying. Whether we believe whatever she denies in this case to be a lie or not is beside the point, of course. If you have any other suggestions for a word to replace "refuted" (instead of "denied"), I am definitely up to listening to what you have to say about the matter. Flyer22 (talk) 12:05, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

"Refuted" is definitely the wrong word to use here. "Refuted" is conclusory; it implies that she proved the rumors false. I think you're relying on the wrong part of WP:AVOID here. The word "denied," per the guideline, is to be avoided in the context of criminal charges of similar accusations of serious misconduct. It is acceptable "in situations involving unproved or disproved ideas and fringe theories, in which the words are used not to presume guilt, but to note that an assertion is known to be incorrect or without consensus." None of the matters involved here amount to allegations of criminal behavior (or even of misconduct of any sort); indeed, rumors seem to fit neatly into the category of "unproved or disproved ideas" where saying "denied" is specifically recognized as appropriate. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I know what "refuted" means; it can also mean the same thing as "denied" but without as much implication of "lying." The word "denied" should not only be avoided in the context of criminal charges in serious accusations of serious misconduct. I have witnessed several GA and FA articles avoid the word "denied" where it can give the impression that the person is lying. The word "denied" should generally be avoided, as the guideline states, because it can give the impression that the person is hiding something or is lying. It may be used where uncontroversial, sure, but I am not seeing how the implication that O'Day had plastic surgery or dated Sean Combs is uncontroversial; they are very rampant rumors, which have been known to upset some O'Day fans...while being accepted as fact by other O'Day fans and some people in general. It has been a hotly debated topic for some time. I suggest the word "dispelled" in place of "refuted" and "denied'...unless you feel that "dispelled" necessarily means that she made thoughts about the rumors being true vanish for good. Flyer22 (talk) 20:50, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Caleb Followill

why did you delete my stuff that I wrote under influences? it was properly sourced and relevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drumdrumdrummer (talk • contribs) 01:08, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, first of all, it wasn't properly sourced; you linked to the wrong page, which standing alone wouldn't be a big deal. Second, what you wrote doesn't line up well with what the article said. (EG, "Soft" is very clearly not a song about "going bald"; it's a song about male sexual performance failure, and Followill says so rather plainly.) Third, much of the paragraph involved is not descriptive of what Followill said, but your interpretation of it and commentary on the album -- which, under Misplaced Pages guidelines, original research (OR), and to the extent it reflects on Followill not appropriate in the biography of a living person (BLP). The sentence beginning "His lyrics often appear nonsensical" is clearly personal opinion, even if a mainstream view; if a claim like that is included at all, it should be sourced to a review or critical piece, preferably in a major publication. Fourth, an "Influences" section in a musician's article is normally about musical and lyrical influences, not about the artist's psyche.

The material you're trying to work up would fit better in the "personal life" section, or perhaps in the album-specific article. I'd suggest posting a new draft on the talk page of either article and asking for comments; if you leave me a note when you do this I'll try to leave my comments quickly. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:02, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Tone of edit summary

Please assume good faith. Edit summary comments like "fake support for notability!" on Co-Ed Fever (film) do not support that assumption. Thanks. Jokestress (talk) 15:53, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

First of all, your edit summaries like "dealing with deletionism" show the same lack of good faith you criticize me for. Second, you're an experienced and competent editor, and you should not have created links in the "Co-Ed fever article to various people who clearly did not appear in the film, including the guy who died in the 17th century, as well as twice adding the name of the mainstream actress who did not appear in the film (although an nn porn actress with a similar name did). Third, you added what is essentially a spamlink to a retailer/VOD site to the external links section, and added a paraphrase of promotional copy from that site to the body of the article, without referencing its source. If you don't want your edits to be criticized, don't make such glaring errors which give the impression of promotional intent. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:49, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Deletionism is not a pejorative; it's a philosophical position. I like the alliteration and assonance of using "dealing" with that term. I don't mind being criticized for errors, though it's generally better to correct them quietly (with simple explanations if warranted). Once again, I encourage you to stop ascribing intent (especially bad-faith intent) to other editors. I have no interest in this particular film other than to prevent its article from being deleted. Thanks. Jokestress (talk) 20:39, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Your comments clearly come across as pejorative, and your failure to seriously address the relevant article's failure to meet the GNG is conspicuous. None of the claims you added verifiably support notability under WP:NOTFILM, and you show much more interest in haranguing me than in legitimate debate. You have repeatedly implied that I hold a "philosophical position" that bears no resemblance to my intentions, and isn't reflected by my editing history, and that is nothing more than the sort of "ascribing intent" you condemn. I'm not interested in any further personalized discussion with an editor who applies different standards to other editors than she does to herself. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:50, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Warning

Please refrain from leaving vandal warnings on an editor's page when there was no vandalism to begin with. So, this warning seems kind of redundent, doesn't it.

Having said that, I left a perfectly viable explanation in the edit summary when I originally removed the deletion notice. Did you even bother to look at the deletion header before reverting my edit and leaving me the unnecessary message? Please read the result of the fifth nomination. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 23:47, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

You did not leave anything resembling a "viable explanation." You removed a deletion notice before the AFD had run its course. You did not close, or attempt to close, the AFD, or participate in the AFD, and your action did not reflect the consensus of the AFD. Nor did it reflect the consensus of the prior AFD; the one-year hiatus was a suggestion made by one editor, not accepted by anyone else, in particular the closing admin. (Even if that was the past consensus, consensus can change.) If you're going to misrepresent the outcome of a prior process, and ignore the process for handling a current dispute, your edits will be indistinguishable from, and treated as, vandalism -- as 99+% of the removal of deletion notices without proper closure of AFD discussions are vandalism. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:08, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

You can call it vandalism if it makes you feel better. Any further comments from you on my talk page will be struck through and duly ignored. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 20:42, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

AfD template removal on Ashida Kim

I think the removal was more an expression of Ghostexorcist's frustration with the repeated nomination then vandalism. --Nate/_c 08:38, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I would like your advice

When you have time, can we please collaborate on how to make the Masiela Lusha page polished and presentable? As of now, Wiki is still citing a need for polishing and fixing -- more so with your re-editing.

I admire your eye on precision, and I feel I have a lot to offer as well, while supporting it with legitimate article links, etc.

I don't intend to "spam" or include bogus links, but I could use some help to make both your job and my job a little easier.

Thank you in advance,

Aaron W —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaronweinhaus (talk • contribs) 16:54, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Mandingo (porn star)

I don't have the patience to get into a revision war with you, but Mandingo's penis size, though poorly sourced, is widely known and central to his fame. Your repeated attempts to remove it are particularly obnoxious given your refusal to participate in the Discussion page. I specifically started a topic related to the subject on the talk page; your summaries in your edit notes aren't cutting it. Reyemile (talk) 05:30, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Two New castmembers SNL

Hi Hullabaloo,

How are you? I just wanted to let you know that even if this rumour started up on a certain blog, the rumour of the new castmembers has popped up on TV Guide.com http://www.tvguide.com/News/SNL-New-Cast-1009401.aspx as well as some other mainstream sites. Now I know they reference the original blog, but I just wanted to make you aware of the new sites featuring the news. I don't know what to make of it though. Guess we'll have to wait for the premiere! Thanks 70.29.242.22 (talk) 20:08, 2 September 2009 (UTC) samusek2

Thanks very much for finding this; it wasn't in any of the news searches I did when I requested semi-protection. Since TV Guide, a reliable source, says it's conformed the story, it's definitely good to go. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:47, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

I would like your opinion regarding inclusion of rumored future events. Please see Misplaced Pages talk:Reliable sources for a discussion on the topic. I used the SNL article and the rumored new cast members as an example. One editor suggested removing the rumor with an explanation. However, removig this kind of rumor would probably just start an add/delete sequence as some people may reasonably conclude a confirmed rumor by a reputable news source is the same as a fact. Noting the casting as a rumor until NBC confirms the casting makes more sense to me. What do you think?Sandcherry (talk) 21:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry case

You are suspected of sockpuppetry, which means that someone suspects you of using multiple Misplaced Pages accounts for prohibited purposes. Please make yourself familiar with the notes for the suspect, then respond to the evidence at Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Hullaballoo Wolfowitz. Thank you. NW (Talk) 21:15, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the notification. I have denied the accusation at the page specified in the notice. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 04:04, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Just in case you weren't aware, you are accused of sockpuppetry here. Mike R (talk) 16:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Sophia Bush

You removed relevant and sourced material, with the rationale that the information or sources (or both) are too gossipy. I point out that The CW interview, whether a video or not, is a reliable source. E! news is also a reliable source, whether gossipy or not. How is it better to remove information about James Lafferty having dated Sophia Bush simply because you find it "too gossipy"? Flyer22 (talk) 04:52, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

And just to be clear, I am not against your other edits and removal of material from this article, and I left those edits intact. It is just the removal of Lafferty and Bush having dated that I objected to, which is why I reinstated it. It is not simply speculation. It was difficult for Chad Michael Murray and Bush to be on set together not only initially because they were previously married...but also because she was now dating one of his co-stars; his speaking out about this is what is in the article. Yes, he was the one to confirm the romance between those two, but I doubt he was lying, and those two have not denied it. Flyer22 (talk) 05:08, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Jenrette

I wouldn't care to argue with Sainty on genealogy - the guy knows what he's talking about. It may not technically meet the standards of a reliable source, but I would bet money that the information about the Boncompagni on his website is accurate. (I'm familiar with him because I used to read and occasionally post on alt.talk.royalty, where he was a regular. The guy has idiosyncratic opinions on some subjects, but he knows his shit). At any rate, we see here, at Leo van de Pas' genealogy site the entry on Prince Nicolo Boncompagni-Ludovisi, presumably the gentleman in question. Van de Pas's site is obviously self-published, but is generally pretty reliable, and most importantly, he lists his sources. Van de Pas provides the Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels and The Royal House of Stuart as his sources - those are both reliable sources on royal genealogy which ought to be discoverable in many research libraries. We should try to check them out ourselves, if we can, but I would be very surprised if they turned out to say anything different from Van de Pas' or Sainty's sites. The man's existence, descent from the reigning houses of Piombino, and so forth, seem to be easily discoverable. The marriage to Jenrette should also be sourced, though. I can understand that people doing obnoxious self-promotion on their own Misplaced Pages article is very annoying, and wish you luck in combatting such silliness, but I think this particular battle is an unnecessary one. john k (talk) 04:22, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

OK, I think we're pretty much in agreement; there's a sourcing problem related to the marriage, we just have different views as to how to describe the problem. Where I come from is -- There certainly is a head of the Boncompagni-Ludovisi family out there, and Rita Jenrette has married someone who she claims to be that family patriarch (or whatever the term is). I think that, for BLP purposes, we ought to have a reliable source documenting that the husband is who she says he is. All we need is one decent press report, one reputable magazine story, one TV clip, whatever. I don't understand why that's proved to be so difficult. If any of my responses to you have come across as excessively cranky, I'll apologize; after repeated snarky comments from Jenrette and her friends I've become thin-skinned. (Long before the current dispute, I'd scrubbed Jenrette's article of some really unfair stuff, like the categorization of her as an "adult model" in the company of various pornstars and sexploitation film actresses, to little thanks.) And I suspect the Anne Hathaway-boyfriend debacle is in the back of my mind as well. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 05:06, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

There is this, which appears to be a perfume-related webzine. My basic problem here is that we seem to be using the reliable sources rule to exclude information that common sense tells us is almost certainly true - we have ("non-reliable," but cited to reliable sources) genealogical sources that tell us of Prince Nicolò Boncompagni-Ludovisi and his descent from the Boncompagni-Ludovisi family that ruled Piombino in the eighteenth century; we have a (probably "non-reliable," but hard to see a reason to think it would be inaccurate) perfume industry blog that shows a photograph of a gentleman of the same name with Jenrette, describes him as a prince, and talks about how he revived some ancient perfume recipe for his wife; and we have the ("non-reliable") personal website of Ms. Jenrette talking about her marriage to the guy. Maybe none of this meets Misplaced Pages's reliable sources/BLP standards, but simply as a person looking at what evidence is available, the truth here seems pretty obvious. BLP policy is designed to protect the privacy of living subjects of articles and not expose ourselves to libel suits. Using the BLP policy to refuse to say what we think is probably true, and instead insist on an equally unsourced version which pisses off the LP in question seems like an odd way to apply the policy. What, in the version you reverted, did you specifically object to? Calling the guy a prince? Saying that he's descended from the Boncompagni-Ludovisi family of Piombino? The latter is almost certainly true, and could be confirmed by looking at the genealogy sites I referenced above. If you want to remove all reference to the Piombino business at all, that might be reasonable, at least until we can confirm it, but I don't see how saying that he "claims" to be descended from the family is anything but a weasel word to imply that he is lying. john k (talk) 16:45, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Email

Hi there. I have sent you an email. Amsaim (talk) 12:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Angelo Moore

Hello, How do we stop people from changing his page? I know that it can be done. Angelo is getting very upset seeing the page change every other month, he wants to be the one with the updates on his life. So please stop making changes.

Many Thanks,

Susette Ashley Garrett/aka Mrs. Angelo Moore

(Trubarbie (talk) 17:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC))

The blunt general answer is that article subjects can't control the content of the relevant articles, and clearly can't insist on including unsourced content mentioning other, private, people by name. The blunt question arising out of this post and your editing is why do you identify yourself as Mrs Moore here, but insist on inserting statements into the article that you are divorced from Mr. Moore, and that he is "dating" someone else. If you or the subject have serious complaints about the correctness of statements in the article, you should familiarize yourself with WP:OTRS and follow the procedure suggested there. If you or he want certain conent added to the article, you should become familiar with WP:COI, WP:NPOV, WP:BLP, WP:RS, and WP:V. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 18:09, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for the backup help on articles such as Aubrey O'Day and Sophia Bush. I know that you did not decide to watch these articles just to help me out per say, but to rather keep them clean, but the additional help is appreciated. These vandals and other unhelpful or unsourced (or both types of) additions wear me down. Flyer22 (talk) 00:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

So you want to delete the article about actors considered for the role of Batman

If you really, really have a problem with this Batman list, then I suppose that the same can be said about the one about James Bond: http://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_actors_considered_for_the_James_Bond_character

TMC1982 (talk) 11:48 p.m., 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Angelo Moore

This is the second email to you about Angelo Moore. Please stop removing the information on his page. I read the Biographies of living person page and the things on his page are relevant and verifiable. He asked for those things to be on his page, due to the fact that many of his songs have to do with marriage, his child, and what makes him him. His fans know him for those things. So that would make the things you continue to delete important to the article. Angelo checked his page because someone stated that the information had been removed once again by you. My next step is to report this to the Biographies of living persons notice board if you do not stop. Yes, I am his ex-spouse that is working with him and his management company to make sure inforamtion about him is correct. I check with Angelo before anything goes up or comes down from his page. If need be I will have Mr. Moore contact wikipedia himself in the event this email is not enough for you to stop making edits to his page.

Many Thanks,

Susette Ashley Garrett- Moore —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trubarbie (talk • contribs) 19:30, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

No. Read my answer to your first post. The article subject does not control the contents of the article, and no one -- not the subject, not the subject's spouse, not the subject's ex-spouse, not Jimbo Wales -- is allowed to introduce completely unsourced claims about the personal life details of living persons, especially otherwise private persons. If the information has been published in reliable, independent third-party sources, it may be included in the article with appropriate references. But not just on an editor's say-so. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Douay Martyrs

Hello there! Couldn't help but notice the edit you made to this artical. Hate to seem rude, but I had just re-edited that particular bit back in after an unregistered user deleted it without comment! I'm not as experienced with wiki as yourself. I'm curious why the edit was counted as cleanup? Many thanks :) OutrageousBenedict (talk) 09:21, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#Proposed_clarification

FYI. This RFC is based on, Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:Jack Merridew/Blood and Roses which you participated in. Ikip (talk) 00:11, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Crystal Harris

FYI, WeKinglyPigs.com has been used for a few years now for info on Playboy Playmates. Most of the information comes directly from the issues of the magazine themselves. The woman who runs the site works in the library at the University of Chicago. See WP:P* under the useful links section. Dismas| 02:18, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ashida Kim (7th nomination)

Since you participated in Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2009 September 4#Ashida Kim, which was closed as relist, you may be interested in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ashida Kim (7th nomination). Cunard (talk) 08:05, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Do not remove plot summary

You removed it again with no discussion in the talk page. But you did have a one line edit summary. Removing it entirely is wrong. I will work on it to address your concerns. Specifically, I will remove most of the description like a man's cock in her vagina doggie style, and the like. One scene won an award so some detail is necessary but will be done tastefully. G314X (talk) 21:54, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Do I know you?

Hello HB. Just wanted to ask if you used to use this same name 'Hullaballoo' to post on the discussion forums in tennis.com a while back. I was a poster there too but have not posted in a long long while. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.229.211 (talk) 13:14, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Not me, sorry. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:10, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Dimitri The Lover

First off HB, thanks for monitoring the very controversial Misplaced Pages entry for Dimitri The Lover. My name is Shawn and I am his Manager. Please note that when I beefed up Dimitri's entry with additional information, I was fair and DID NOT remove anything that was derogatory, even though much of it is inflammatory and borderline defamatory. I only removed gross innacuracies and reworded misleading sentences. I have provided references for all additions. I may do a bit more rewording for grammar and sentence structure (I'm a real stickler for that) and may also add in more content. My IP Address is static and if you see anything from it please know that it is me. Also, I sometimes use internet cafes, so if any other edits that seem reasonable are made from other IP's and I have noted them to be made by myself, then please provide lattitude. You can see that I have undone some vandalism in the past. I would appreciate you helping us keep a keen eye on this most controversial BLP to ensure no further vandalism. We are in the post-production phase of a Hollywood documentary about Dimitri The Lover, word is slowly leaking out about the "voicemails" being, let's just say, not what they seem, and expect a lot of traffic to this Misplaced Pages entry. If you need to get in touch with me personally, please go to www.dimitrithelover.com and use our contact, noting that it is for me. I prefer not giving out my direct email here. Thanks once again for being vigilant! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.99.9.122 (talk) 16:19, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Noel Ashman's page

Hi,

I am quite new to editing on wikipedia but I know and understand how to cite references. I would like to understand why you keep removing the content thats been put up in the past. Especially when a lot of it has to do with movies
that he has been a part of that are plainly referenced on imdb.com. If you consider that site not to be reputable then please let me know of a better site than that one because I can't think of any other. Other major hollywood personalities
have used imdb.com for sourcing. It is wasting my time and yours to keep taking it down and putting it up again. Julietamyor

Julietamyor (talk) 16:31, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Rascal Flatts

The CMT and Rolling Stone listings are only directories. I haven't found anything on CMT or Lyric Street that even announced the release of this album; albums by notable acts aren't inherently notable. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • 16:56, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I pointed out those easy-to-find pages in commenting on your earlier claims that the album was a blatant hoax. It doesn't given one much confidence in the other search results you report. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:36, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Deanna Brooks

Ok, I'm going to try and do what Wiki says, talk this through and assume good faith on everyone’s part. This picture is NOT Deanna Brooks. I've known of Deanna Brooks for years, I've exchanged emails with her, I'm a friend on hers on Myspace and Facebook and I can tell you with absolute certainty...the picture is NOT her. I contacted the person who posted it and told him the exact same thing I'm telling you. You can check out her official website, her Myspace page, her Facebook page, her Twitter page, her IMDB entry or just Google her. The women in this picture is very tanned, Deanna Brooks is fair skinned, always has been, the women pictured has breast implants, Deanna Brooks does not. What is the purpose of constantly adding a photo which is NOT her, why continue to make her entry so glaringly inaccurate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.202.18.9 (talk) 18:59, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, whoever you are, given that photos of the same model wearing the same clothing at the same event are available on multiple websites, credited to a different photographer, all identified as Deanna Brooks, the identification given by the photographer who's supplied many images to Misplaced Pages without apparent controversy sure appears to be reliable. Women in her line of work refurbish themselves rather frequently. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 04:04, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

FYI

User talk:71.235.38.171 - Schrandit (talk) 06:11, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Ernie Anastos

Thanks; I'm at 3RR! Looks like you're going to have to find yourself a partner soon...maybe User:Tide rolls is around. Good luck, Drmies (talk) 04:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

List of nudity in music videos

Hello! Fixed the article, added a source to confirm my edits. Cheers!

Greg Fitzsimmons

Some of your edits are being discussed here: I thought I should alert you just in case you didn't see them on your own so that you would have an opportunity to respond as well. Hope all is well! ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 17:09, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

IMDb references

Is the IMDb reference in this article - Three-Five-Zero-Zero - acceptable IYHO? Thanks 75.182.113.84 (talk) 13:48, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Even if it's acceptable, whih I greatly doubt, a Google Book search turns up more appropriate sources . This might also be helpful . Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:00, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

How about here: Jerry_Springer:_The_Opera? 75.182.113.84 (talk) 13:54, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Here the imdb page isn't used as a reference, just as an external link. But it looks really dubious to me, since it appears to be user-submitted original research and opinion. There should be much better sources out there for anything that might be referenced to it. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:00, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

And here: Three Mile Island (ref 15)? 75.182.113.84 (talk) 15:46, 22 September 2009 (UTC) Here? Escape to Witch Mountain (1975 film) 75.182.113.84 (talk) 15:48, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Noel Ashman's Page

Hi, I was following up on the message I left a few days ago and still did not see a detailed response to it. I would really like to fix the page so that it is acceptable by Misplaced Pages standards and would really appreciate some detailed feedback. Thank you for your time.

Julietamyor

Ref update

Thanks for the improved reference on Clint Catalyst! As a result, I spent some more time working on the paragraph (for example, I noticed Darren Stein's name was misspelled). I see you're pretty much a Wiki black-belt, so I hope you think I've done a good job. Thanks again for looking out for me! Feather Jonah (talk) 01:21, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Ruth Rosen

I noticed you removed alot of content from Ruth Rosen, perhaps an AfD is in order? abc518 (talk) 15:09, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I think the article subject is notable; but it's hard to get someone familiar with the field to work on the article when Rosen herself comes in regularly, wipes out the text, and pastes in a promotional (auto)biography. Needs time for things to settle down. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your input. abc518 (talk) 01:07, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Cytherea (person)

I don not understand why we can not use her real name. Several porn actresses have their real names in the articles, like Cindy Crawford (pornographic actress). It was even sourced. Glumpbaar (talk) 18:27, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

In general, birthnames/real names for pornographic performers must be reliably sourced, and neither IMDB nor retailer/VOD sites are considered reliable sources. See, for example, the comments from Wikiproject:Pornography. Cindy Crawford (pornographic actress) is something of a special case; she claims to be performing under her real name, so any claims that she isn't are subject to WP:BLP, and there is a strong argument that she'd have been sued into the ground by that well-known supermodel if there's any doubt about it. I don't know how to resolve this case, so I've left it alone. In general, these real name IDs are usually sourced to mainstream news sources, because the issue is sensitive. See Crystal Gunns, for example, or Racquel Darrian. (And while looking for examples of good cites, I found and removed another IMDB-only citation, there's still cleanup left to do.) Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 18:47, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Leah Hackett

How does who she previously dated hold no encyclopedic significance? I've seen plenty of GAs. It's not gossip either as it's clearly sourced. I'd also like to remind you of the 3RR rule. --Jimbo 16:40, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Nina Carter

Hi, I'd appreciate you leaving the information about Nina Carter's cameo in American Werewolf in London in her article. The information is accurate, it's not contentious, it's not BLP and you keep removing it without leaving notes. If you refuse to desist, I would at least like your guidance on how we can arrive at a mutually acceptable scenario, rather than the unilateral removal of accurate information? Much obliged! 17.22 28 Sep 09 (BST)

Unsourced, speculative "information" isn't allowed in a WP:BLP. Unreferenced quotations generally aren't allowed at all. There's never been an explanation as to how/why details about a film cameo bear on her real life, especially since the details are about what might have happened in the film if a sequence had run longer. When multiple experienced editors repeatedly remove the same content with the same explanation ("unsourced"), that should be a signal that the content shouldn't be added back without reliable sourcing.Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 18:04, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Your point: 'since the details are about what might have happened in the film if a sequence had run longer'. I have got a single clue what you're alluding to here. However, there's no explanantion as to how why details about a film cameo bear on Ms Carter's life. It is relevant to her career though, and accurate, and her cameo is now mentioned solely as being in the film, without the copy that seems to so aggrieve your sensibilities. Your style of editing seems to others to be overly fussy but I'm hoping that the current article meets with your exacting standards.

Please leave it alone now. Thanks. 20:24 BST 28/9/09

Why did you not provide a proper reference rather than argue and edit war with him over this? The burden of verifying information is on the person who adds any information. If anything is so accurate and relevant, it would be reported by third party reliable sources. I easily found a reference using google books. Morbidthoughts (talk) 19:52, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I didn't add the information. 22.24 BST 28/9/09.

What do you call these edits by your ip address? Even if you are not the original author, you still added the information back without the appropriate citations in your edit war. Morbidthoughts (talk) 21:49, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I call them 'reverting vandalism'. 09.11 BST 29/9.09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.187.175 (talk) 08:12, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Call it whatever you want but continuing to edit war in defiance of policy will get you blocked. Morbidthoughts (talk) 15:22, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I imagine it will get you blocked also, am I right? 80.229.187.175 22.40 BST 29/9/09

I'm not the one edit warring over this so the answer is no. Morbidthoughts (talk) 23:26, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Edit warring will get you blocked, yes. Save the inarticulate and thinly veiled threats for someone who cares for your opinion. Thanks for putting the citation up though! 80.229.187.175 13.38 BST 30/9/09

Removal of PROD from Tamara Lee

Hello Hullaballoo Wolfowitz, this is an automated message from SDPatrolBot to inform you the PROD template you added to Tamara Lee has been removed. It was removed by Garion96 with the following edit summary '(rm prod, not sure about this one)'. Please consider discussing your concerns with Garion96 before pursuing deletion further yourself. If you still think the article should be deleted after communicating with the 'dePRODer,' you may want to take part in the article's current AfD. Thank you, SDPatrolBot (talk) 20:58, 29 September 2009 (UTC) (Learn how to opt out of these messages) 20:58, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Re: edit conflict

I opened a discussion here -- Blanchardb -- timed 17:01, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Winger/Polanski

Hi HW - I think the issue on Debra Winger goes beyond sourcing - see my comment on Talk:Debra Winger and see if you agree or disagree and perhaps we can get a dialog going rather than what's been happening. Thanks! Tvoz/talk 18:17, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Gerry Ryan

So a story in the two major newspapers and from the national broadcaster in a country where public figures will sue you ( and done so in the past ) for getting the slightest thing wrong when reporting on them is not RS .Good Grief .Garda40 (talk) 17:52, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Please pay attention to the details. No matter who publishes them, rumors are generally not encyclopedic. Articles that simply report that rumors are circulating are not considered reliable sources for articles which assert or otherwise indicate that the rumors are true. WP:BLP is quite clear that the central concern is to "get the article right," not to republish speculative, "titillating" claims made elsewhere, whether they're grounds for lawsuits or not. Misplaced Pages:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Gerry_Ryan .

The Ogdens (band)

This is a direct recreation (I think word-for-word, but as I'm not an admin I can't see the text of the deleted version) of an article The Ogdens which was deleted.

The article was created, discussed at length for a week, and then deleted on the 18th Sept. On the 24th, it was recreated and speedily deleted:

• 18:23, 24 September 2009 R'n'B (talk | contribs) deleted "The Ogdens" ‎ (Recreation of a page that was deleted per a deletion discussion (CSD G4))
• 01:56, 18 September 2009 Backslash Forwardslash (talk | contribs) deleted "The Ogdens" ‎ (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/The Ogdens)

I am curious as to why you have declined a speedy deletion, as this is an article which was decided should not be in Misplaced Pages, and from what I can see there is no difference between the current article and the deleted version.

I thought I would ask you before I put this up for deletion again, in case you were not aware of the recent history of this article (did you read the AfD discussion before removing the Speedy Delete notice, for example?)

I will give you a little while to respond, but by tonight if I have not heard from you, I will proceed to put this up for deletion again.

Regards, -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 07:24, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Your 3RR complaint about Anne Applebaum

I don't see four reverts, either by you or Krakatoa. The last version of the article that you saved makes no mention of the Polanski issue at all. Do you think it deserves no coverage in the article? Due to some recent improvements, the current version seems more neutral. So all in all, there no longer is a huge problem. I'm not seeing either edit warring or BLP at the moment, except perhaps there are too many references for people being annoyed at Applebaum over the Polanski thing, and this could be slightly over the top. If you still have reservations, maybe they can be explored on the article talk, and the 3RR report could be closed. EdJohnston (talk) 03:42, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't follow your argument at all. That Krakatoa made 4 reverts to the article in little more than an hour is unmistakable. Note that the "base" version of the article includes a paragraph beginning "In September 2009, Applebaum wrote two opinion pieces in the Washington Post defending Roman Polanski." Each of the four edits by Krakatoa that I cited restores that exact text, whose inclusion in the article was disputed by multiple editors, including me. I don't see how this cannot be a 3RR violation. Krakatoa should be cautioned on this point; simply inserting variations on disputed content without altering a significantly disputed claim isn't a loophole to 3RR. Some of the BLP issues also center on this phrasing -- it's an unsourced, contentious statement regarding the article subject, a subjective interpretation of Applebaum's writings, and therefore clearly inappropriate article content. And I also don't see why you summarily dismiss the conclusion that several editors, again including myself, reach regarding the applicability of WP:BLP#Praise_and_criticism and the disproportionate emphasis placed on this matter in the context of Applebaum's career. Could your please explain your reasoning on these points? Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:01, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I've now closed the case. After further study, I have changed my view and now agree with you that the first of the four listed edits by Krakatoa was a revert, in the sense given at WP:REVERT: "More broadly, reverting may also refer to any action that reverses the actions of other editors." EdJohnston (talk) 17:18, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Harvey Weinstein

There is nothing "uncivil" or "intellectually dishonest" about warning someone about deleting content without a valid rationale, as I explained politely in that post, which had nothing to do with mere "disagreement" with your edit. Which part of my post do you disagree with? That you're not supposed to delete content because it is badly formatted or written? That's true. That three people opined that that material should remain, including one who offered Third Opinion as part of a request I made to address your concerns? That is also true. If you wanted to refute this, and continue to contest that material's inclusion, then you what you should do is start a consensus discussion on the Talk Page, and not engage in edit warring by removing it again after others decided it should remain. What is actually uncivil and intellectually dishonest is removing my warning to you and falsely labeling it vandalism with the Edit Summuary "rvv". I suggest you not make false accusations of vandalism, since at this point, you should know that a warning against content removal, even if you feel it is unwarranted, does not constitute vandalism. Nightscream (talk) 15:22, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Stuart Broad

I reverted your reversion edit of my edit of Stuart Broad, as you clearly had not read the reference at the end of the sentence, which confirms both his existing and former girl friends. Before suggesting anything is "gossip" check the references first. Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 18:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

First of all, it is gossip, whether it's accurate or not. Second, since you didn't provide a link for the supposed reference, it wasn't possible to check it directly, and my first google search didn't immediately turn up a version of the report including that claim. If you don't fully source claims in BLPs, especially claims naming someone other than the article subject, you should expect to see them removed. I accept per WP:AGF that the claim is actually there. But, third, I have great doubts about the encyclopedic significance of information about the "former girl friends" of low-grade celebrities, especially in the absence of any nontrivial consequences on their lives/careers. The extent to which such minutaie are included in articles seems to be inversely related to the significance of the article subject, unless you believe that, for example, Meryl Streep, Jay Leno, Alec Guinness, and Julianne Moore never dated anyone other than their respective spouses. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 18:31, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Ratan Naval Tata

Provide the source that you believe the user has copied from. You are crossing 3RR. If there are so many sources then provide at least one. warrior4321 20:26, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Flores

Now restored and written in order not to violate wiki policies on copyright. Can I suggest that in future if you do not agree with a particular piece of information in an article that you try to challenge that properly rather than get rid of the whole article. We can all go around deleting everything we don't like, but it's not particularly productive. Contaldo80 (talk) 09:15, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Given that all but two words in the original version of the article you "created" were cut-and-pasted from a copyrighted book, you argument doesn't make a bit of sense. You should review Misplaced Pages's copyright policies, which call for the speedy deletion of obvious copyright violations like the one you committed. That's why the previous version of the article was deleted by an independent admin who reviewed the proper challenge I made to the article. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:18, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Siouxsie Sioux

Re: Other references. I cannot reference directly into the game (world of warcraft). I'll include other references. Do you have any ideas on this? Michaelbarreto (talk) 18:23, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

You need to find a third-party source which has reported this -- a gaming magazine or a music magazine are the most likely sources to turn up. Official documentation from the game publisher might also be helpful, but I doubt they'd admit this openly, for fear of lawsuit. You might also find it mentioned on her official site, but that's not too likely either. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:07, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

phrasing of the question can shift an answer

Just to point out that 18c included the phrase "... but you disagree with them even after they present their rationale ...". I took that to imply that I still wanted to have a block installed, and was questioning whether I would do so unilaterally, which I would not. Certainly if I came to the conclusion that discussion on ANI would be pointless, I'd drop it before posting there.—Kww(talk) 17:51, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

re:Stephanie Swift

You're right, I should have chosen a better source. It turns out that Chickpedia is a user editable source, not reliable. The idea that she changed her name is not that contentious. She has mentioned so in an interview and the last name of her mother is listed on multiple news releases. I added the birthname again using IMDb as a source. Stillwaterising (talk) 05:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I can find nothing of the reliable sort to prove this. It's most likely true, but for now it will have to be left alone. Stillwaterising (talk) 05:31, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

RFA spam

Thank you for participating in WP:Requests for adminship/Kww 3
Sometimes, being turned back at the door isn't such a bad thing

—Kww(talk) 19:31, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Hayden Christensen and Rachel Bilson

She's back. Now that the articles have been semi-protected, she's editing them under her own account, so at least we can show that all the edits are from the same person. Care to lend a hand with the reverts, and/or to make her see reason? -- Zsero (talk) 00:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I put a detailed warning on her talk page, although (unsurprising, after 11 reverts on one article) she was blocked shortly thereafter. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:32, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. I was wary of continuing the edit war on my own; I've been down that rabbit-hole before. -- Zsero (talk) 00:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Quick FYI about Andrew Warde

Hi,

Just a follow-up on your edit summary when you removed the first G12 speedy tag on the above: While the source was published in 1910, it's the date of the death of the author that is relevant, and as far as I could ascertain, George Kemp Ward passed away in 1937, leaving his works under copyright for a few more years. I have therefore deleted the article accordingly. Cheers, MLauba (talk) 10:15, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I beleve you should give this one another look. As WP:Copyright FAQ states, works published before 1923 are presumed to be in the public domain under US law, and there is no indication this book was published or copyrighted anywhere but the US. Moreover, the book is listed in the Internet Archive, generally a reliable reference, as having an expired copyright. As I noted in my removal of the speedy notice, the possible copyright claims would be complex, not self-evident; this would not be an unambiguous copyright violation, and therefore is not suitable for speedy deletion. If you believe the public domain claim is not valid, the article should have been subject to the (non-speedy) process for evaluating possible copyright violations. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:29, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

You are correct and the mistake was mine, thanks for pointing it out so that I could redress it. MLauba (talk) 15:31, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Budania

FYI. You did not address the "notability" issue in your post. Perhaps, the lack of notability is the strongest reason for deletion. (Even stronger than the absence of a single reliable source?) Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Budania#Budania —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jwesley78 (talk • contribs) 21:40, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Reason For Redirct?

Can you please add you reasons for why you did this on the talk page Talk:Sal the Stockbroker I requested a review of it, you should add why you think it should be redirected. 98.117.40.154 (talk) 17:16, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

It can be seen here Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Sal the Stockbroker 98.117.40.154 (talk) 17:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Explained (twice) in the edit summaries. This page is a borderline speedy deletion candidate, since it has no independent/third-party sourcing and its text is devoted to disparaging the subject. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:33, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Donatella Diamani

What am I not understanding correctly?

I placed a list of references to print publications in which Dontella Diamani appeared. These were removed, citing "unrefereced laundry list, primary sources at best, not generally included."

Dontatella Diamani is an 80s Italian sex symbol and has appeared in numerous centerfolds. To support that claim I thought the idea was to provide sources, including primary sources, and I supplied a few, down to specific page numbers. Why is it important to censor the fact that she has appeared in pictorals? WHy is it important to remove a pictoral section reference? That would only detract from her fame as a 70s-80s Italian sex symbol, would it not? Mouseydung (talk) 23:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

From the reliable sources guideline: "Misplaced Pages articles should be based on reliable secondary sources. This means that while primary or tertiary sources can be used to support specific statements, the bulk of the article should rely on secondary sources. . . . Primary sources, on the other hand, are often difficult to use appropriately. While they can be reliable in many situations, they must be used with caution in order to avoid original research." Misplaced Pages's verifiability policy sets the crucial test as "whether readers are able to check that material added to Misplaced Pages has already been published by a reliable source." When you provide a list of magazine appearances, rather than a secondary source saying something like "Diamani appeared in pictorials in many men's magazines like Playboy and Playmen," your claim is not verifiable in the sense that Misplaced Pages policy uses the term. Instead, the user must repeat your (original) research to see whether the claim is true. Sometimes claims that are easily and directly checked may be supported by primary sources -- for example, the claim that "Actress X appeared in a cover-featured pictorial in the issue of Playboy" is sometimes supported by a link to the cover of the issue -- but it is better practice to link instead to a news story on the subject, or to a page on the magazine's website reporting the appearance (second-best). This has nothing to do with censorship. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:12, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Toni Basil

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. Please stop the disruption, otherwise you may be blocked from editing. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:46, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

As I've pointed out, the user in question has been making various edits to the article which are substantially identical to those made by User:Tbasil930, who identified themselves as "Team Basil." The user in question has inserted a significant number of deadlinks and spurious if not outright phony references, including sourcing promotional claims with a general link to the artist's own website. The appearance of COI is certainly present, and I think it's vandalism for that user to repeatedly remove the template without meaningfully addresing it. I think you should restore the template and allow discussion to proceed. If you take a look at the article history, you'll also see that the bulk of the disputed content (well beyond the COI notice) was repeatedly removed by several established editors, myself included, but added back this morning without consensus. I think that adding the COI notice was preferable to edit warring the content itself; the template was added in good faith and is reasonable, and should not have been removed before the debate is resolved. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 16:57, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Warning(s)

• Please stop edit warring.
• If you see that a source does not support the exact claim of the article, you can rewrite the CLAIM. Do NOT simply delete sources. Shahid • 18:55, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

In simple terms, No. The cited source does not support the claim "often," as you acknowledge, and the single mention is not itself encyclopedically notable. It is clearly not appropriate for you to reinsert a claim you acknowledge to be false, especially in a BLP. It is not edit warring to remove a claim that is undisputedly false Remember as well that the burden lies with the user trying to keep disputed content, especially poorly sourced content in a BLP. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:05, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Reverting someone continuously is edit warring. And let me repeat what I said - you can rewrite the CLAIM. Do NOT simply delete sources. Secondly, the source was not completely improper as it did support the claim only that the phrasing was not very good. So by bold and rephrase. Hope I made it clearer to you this time around. Shahid • 19:19, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

The source absolutely did not support the claim. Once is not "often." Phil Spector did not "often" shoot and kill women. It's no one's responsibility but yours to write content which conforms to sources. WP:BLP calls for removal of inaccurate, badly sourced content from BLPs, and if you don't accept that than you shouldn't be editing BLPs. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

George Michael edit

Hello. You just deleted an entry I made on the George Michael article on the basis that you believed it was "non-constructive". That is a matter of personal point of view as many parts of the article could be considered to be non-constructive to the over all article. Please explain further on the George Michael discussion page before making arbitrarily deletions. Thank you. Artemisboy (talk) 23:52, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

No. The exact reason was "nonconstructive edits raising BLP issues." You inserted poorly sourced, partly unsourced derogatory material into the biography of a living person. WP:BLP calls for such material to be "removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." Celebitchy.com is a tabloid site, not a reliable source. gminfopage.com is a self-published source which cannot be used as a BLP reference. thedeadbolt.com appears to be nothing more than the standard, unreliable tabloid aggregation page and is used to source a wholly gratuitous negative reference to a nonnotable person who Misplaced Pages policy demands be left alone. "Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid paper; it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives." Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:37, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I can see your point on the tabloid site and will search for a more reputible source. In the meanwhile, the autobiography Bare stands on it's own merit as being released by George Michael. Because of this I am re-entering it in the book section, which is where it should be. Artemisboy (talk) 05:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Ricky Martin

Hi there..i noticed you reverted my addition to the article...as it being non-reliable sources...if so..what sources would be reliable and allowed..ancestry.com and the US census websites...??..the website that is sued seems to be the only one with the paternal side referenced..and in no doubt have more added to his paternal Martin and morales maternal sid when the information is available..the reference that is used for his Corsican great-4 grandfather is still used there which wasnt deleted..although it seems to have enough detail on the negorni side rearched..anyway..give me your views..and ill try to wearch for another website that gives the same info which isnt user edited..although this 'Negroni family tree' is only edited by ONE person..not many...in the website it says he sues the us census and ancestry.com to research the family. ..maybe better to discuss this on the talk page to get further opinions on this..thankyou.Puertorico1 (talk) 20:53, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't know enough about genealogy sites to give you a good answer. But I'd be very careful about using anything from ancestry.com. In general, Misplaced Pages treats sources which allow their users to contribute content without a rigorous review process (including Misplaced Pages itself) as failing its standards for reliable sources, and therefore unusable as references for articles regarding living persons. The FamilyTreeMaker section of ancestry.com consists mainly if not entirely of user-submitted content , and ancestry.com's homepage reports a very heavy volume of user contributions under the headline "FROM ANCESTRY MEMBERS THIS WEEK" . I'd stick to whatever is documented in news/magazine articles and books. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:29, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

ohh.thanks, the only family members mentioned in the news and books are his parents and his grandmother who he talks about as being an influence..further than that, i cant find. .maybe that small amount can be added then, since there are many people like bill gates, John Mccain etc, ancestry which is documented also in their article by another website, although not in a tree like table. anyway..does that mean if he was dead that this would be ok to use this as a source.? Puertorico1 (talk) 23:26, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Request for mediation not accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Siouxsie Sioux. For the Mediation Committee, Ryan Postlethwaite 01:20, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Notice

This report may interest you. It seems to be related to Sal the Stockbroker. On an unrelated note, you should consider archiving your talk page as it's takes several seconds to load. Regards. — ξ 06:56, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Jesse James

Which BLP guidelines does that material fail? Nightscream (talk) 07:07, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

"Biographies of living persons must be written conservatively, with regard for the subject's privacy. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid paper; it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives. The possibility of harm to living subjects is one of the important factors to be considered when exercising editorial judgment." A current custody dispute involving a six-year-old child is generally unrelated to the subject's notability and has no demonstrable encyclopedic value. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:36, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

The custody battle is widely reported in mainstream news media. It is part of the subject's notability. BLP does not demand removal of the controversial when it is well sourced. Morbidthoughts (talk) 20:11, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh, yes it does. See WP:WELLKNOWN, as well as the privacy concerns in WP:BLPNAME. Perhaps there might be room for a short statement when the matter is resolved, but certainly not the inclusion of the allegations made by one side in a custody. We're not talking about the Gosselins here, and we're talking about a brief flurry of lowgrade celebrity journalism, not sustained coverage. If James weren't married to Sandra Bullock, this wouldn't have received anything like the press it had, so there's also the principles behind WP:NOTINHERITED to consider. But most of all, we're exposing the details of the private life of a not-even-six-year-old child to the world, and "this news organization did it first" just isn't an adequate excuse. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:12, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

My reading of WELLKNOWN and BLP in general does not excise mention of the custody battle. I don't see anything in BLP that says we must wait until a controversy is resolved before mentioning it in the respective articles. I agree that unverified allegations from either side of the custody battle has no place in wikipedia BLPs. Morbidthoughts (talk) 01:08, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Procedural AfD

Hey there. One of the articles you tagged for proposed deletion, Leanni Lei, was contested after deletion. I undeleted the article and nominated it for deletion quoting your prod rationale. Just thought I would let you know. NW (Talk) 16:30, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Volunteer reported to Misplaced Pages; Numerous complaints against Wolfowitz

Hullabaloo Wolfowitz has been reported to the Help discussion page regarding several items. I request to have a discussion with you regarding your questionable edits, changes and undos to the Amy Grant page, including one that undid much of my work. I also call into question your admittance regarding following Misplaced Pages policy (above), hounding from other editors for your past actions and unpredictable and erratic behavior. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Relax777 (talk • contribs) 05:14, 3 November 2009 (UTC) (Moved to user talk page by TheFeds)

• I'd like to comment on the behaviour of Hullabaloo Wolfowitz on Misplaced Pages. His "contributions" are mostly destructive where he undoes and deletes what other people contribute in a a very offhanded manner. I think that he's vandalizing pages. It may be a better idea for him to be more constructive in his editing. Instead of merely deleting or undoing, perhaps he should consider fixing the problem himself. Try and do some of the work in creating pages of high quality. This would be a more collaborative approach and more in line with what Misplaced Pages is all about. I'm sure that his intentions are very honourable, however, I believe that he needs a more constructive approach to editing pages. I hope that my comment is perceived as constructive because that was my intention. Michaelbarreto (talk) 04:58, 5 November 2009 (UTC) (Moved to user talk page by TheFeds)

This is another complaint against Wolfowitz. This volunteer has repeatedly made destructive and erratic changes to a popular wiki page though he/she apparently has no other purpose or reason than to exert his own influence and will on content. Wolfowitz's misguided efforts are hurting wikipedia and the valuable contributions of editors who work hard to make wikipedia a positive environment where collective efforts create good content. Dougmac7 (talk) 06:57, 9 November 2009 (UTC) (Moved to user talk page by TheFeds)

ANI

Hello, Hullaballoo Wolfowitz. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Frmatt (talk) 07:58, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Hello

Hi Hullaballoo!--Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:47, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Just letting you know somebody pasted the following (within the quotes) on my talk page -- "What do you mean by this? YOu wrote that Hullabaloo Wolfowitz deserves an award for being a "great watchdog" on wikipedia. Yet, several people have written major complaints about his destructive changes to pages that he has no connection to? Please explain why you are the only one who thinks he is doing good work. He himself wrote in his bio page that many people hounded him about his erratic changes to pages. Why is he apparently targeting my work? I have worked on two pages in the past 2 weeks- and he continually undoes my work without giving any explanation and without discussing though I specifically ask people to discuss before changing the content."

And then they didn't sign it. Generally I remember that your contributions to Dana Delany and Gerald Celente were positive and constructive, and I appreciate your advice and help with both of those articles. I also appreciate that you weeded out poorly sourced stuff, and dubious references, and alerted me about how some sources were bogus (and I agree with you, and I don't use them any more). So, just letting you know I appreciate your work! --Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:47, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Jerome Vered

I'm still not seeing how he meets notability. I've found the same sources as you now, but all I'm seeing is a two-sentence mention in a book on Jeopardy! and incidental coverage following his Jeopardy! win. Do you really think that's enough? Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • 19:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Thunder Collins and Eva Mendes

Hello, I did a Courtesy Blank on Thunder Collins.

I did not intentionally mean to "attack" him and apologize that it came off that way.

I searched for a page for him on Misplaced Pages and found none, so decided to start one. The only recent info that I had was the current info about his situation.

I assumed that others would come along and add to his biography, but instead it was viewed as an attack on the person, which it wasn't.

It seems that I have come under attack by a few users on my posts, but I have made posts without logging in previously that were not viewed as spam.

It's weird that once I joined and started posting as a logged in user, I became a target.

I subscribe to a Celeb/News Blog and when info comes through the Feed, I check Misplaced Pages to see if it has already been posted and provide a Source.

Blogs as sources are allowed from what I have read in the policies. It would be unfair for a Source to have to be a big name news site.

If my source was a particular blog, then that is what I cite.

I've also noticed that many times Users will delete my source, but keep the news from that source reported. This is not how I understood Misplaced Pages to work. Anything that I post deserves to have a source added to it. So, if a blog is my source, why should I not give them credit for it.

According to the Guidelines that I have read, we are first to assume that the Editor is editing in Good Faith. I have been, but many have simply attacked me as a spammer without considering that I provided valid info on a topic.

Please talk with me before the threats of Blocking me. I am not a spammer, just an eager User. Now, that I have joined and started posting under my User name, I have seen the True Colors of Misplaced Pages. My anonymous posts are still untouched somehow, but they also link to various blogs.

Please advise if I should begin posting anonymously again, since I did not have these sorts of issues before. My content and sources were considered valid then and should be considered valid now.

Thanks for listening. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Niac7 (talk • contribs) 15:58, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Under Misplaced Pages's policy regarding articles concerning living persons, blogs are generally not allowed as sources. "Never use self-published books, zines, websites, webforums, blogs or tweets as sources for material about a living person, unless written or published by the subject of the biographical material." Under Misplaced Pages's general policy regarding article sources, "self-published media, whether books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, Internet forum postings, tweets, etc., are largely not acceptable."

I can't speak about your prior anonymous contributions without more information, but it certainly appears as though every prior edit using the "Ralphie Boy Blog" as a source has been removed .

Issues relating to the Thunder Collins article are now being debated under the Misplaced Pages standard article deletion process. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:27, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I guess my main concern here is that many of the posts themselves were not deleted, so it appears that the CONTENT was acceptable. No problem though, it appears that Misplaced Pages doesn't consider "small" sources as valid sources which is ashame. Many times, blogs, etc., have new info before it even hits news sources. No prob, I guess I'll keep posting, but will only give "news" sites despite the fact that it may not have come from them. Whatever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Niac7 (talk • contribs) 17:53, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

As one of the editors that has been removing your (Niac7) links to blogs, I guess I should comment here. First, you've misrepresented the situation. I would like to correct those misrepresentations here:

"I have made posts without logging in previously that were not viewed as spam. It's weird that once I joined and started posting as a logged in user, I became a target."

Incorrect. Posts made by User:96.25.163.229 and User:198.203.191.61 and User:198.203.191.59 (also you?) have also been removed or edited. Your edits were removed because they violated Misplaced Pages policy, not because of who made them.

"Blogs as sources are allowed from what I have read in the policies."

Incorrect. Blogs are almost always not allowed, as explained by H. Wolfowitz above.

"I've also noticed that many times Users will delete my source, but keep the news from that source reported."

Sometimes, but rarely and only temporarily while more appropriate sources are found. Such as in this example, where the Ralphie Boy citation was replaced by an Associated Press source.

"According to the Guidelines that I have read, we are first to assume that the Editor is editing in Good Faith. I have been, but many have simply attacked me as a spammer without considering that I provided valid info on a topic."

You are correct that we are to assume good faith. But sometimes, when we see edits like this, where you do not add any content at all, and instead only add a link to your blog, one's good faith might be tested. There have been editors in the past that have tried to increase traffic to their own websites by spamming links to those websites throughout Misplaced Pages articles.

"Many times, blogs, etc., have new info before it even hits news sources."

This is correct; but that information on blogs is also often filled with errors, incomplete, false or defamatory content. Blogs do not have editorial oversight, like reputable newspapers and and magazines; that's why we don't use blogs. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 00:53, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I also see that you put the Thunder Collins back up. I Created that article and you said it was an attack. So now, I went in to do a Courtesy Blank and it is back up. Once again, you have kept the content, but you have a problem with my sources. This is very hypocritical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Niac7 (talk • contribs) 18:08, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Northumbrian saints

Ah, the articles themselves looked different to the ones on Misplaced Pages on the saints. On AllExperts.com I'm sure I've seen before articles where they have one person just writing something out, is this right? - Yorkshirian (talk) 19:56, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Allexperts.com does have original material, but it also has a huge collection of pages copied from Misplaced Pages. I'm not positive, but I believe all the pages with URLs beginning http://en.allexperts.com/e/ are mirrored, while their other pages are original. (The /e/ indicating "encyclopedia," which generally means wikipedia. URLs beginning http://en.allexperts.com/q/ in contrast present original content, responding to questions from users).

Their "encyclopedia" pages often look different from current Misplaced Pages pages because they don't do a very good job of updating their pages as our articles change; for example, their article of Eadfrith of Lindisfarne apparently hasn't been updated since 2005 or so; it corresponds to the earliest version of the Misplaced Pages page . Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:23, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

She's at it again

Special:Contributions/Priscila Herig -- Zsero (talk) 10:27, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

...and that's four. -- Zsero (talk) 10:37, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

What a day. I got blocked this morning for reverting her three times; I've been unblocked by another admin, who agreed that Priscila's edits constitute vandalism. -- Zsero (talk) 23:40, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Our friend seems not to have noticed my edit, which took out the only substantive content she's trying to add to the article. She's now reverting to my version, isn't she? Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 23:59, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, she's now only reverting All Hallow Wraith's edits, either because she didn't notice, or because her only purpose now is to make a point. -- Zsero (talk) 00:02, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

And there she goes again. Could you please help out with the reverting, if only so that the next admin who comes along doesn't make the same mistake Chamal N made yesterday, and think this is all me? -- Zsero (talk) 18:07, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Ann-Margret

Hi, I noticed the revision you made for Ann-Margret 15 minutes ago. If you're a confirmed user, can you get a look at the color photograph that someone deleted in 2008? I recall distinctly seeing it in the article before that time. It's such a great picture of her that it should go back in. What copyright issues, if any, were/are at stake? Thanking you in advance for your attention. Photodouble (talk) 22:14, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't actually know what issues were at stake, but judging by the caption, it fails Misplaced Pages's internal policies regarding the use of copyrighted images (WP:FU). The image file itself has been deleted, and I don't have access to it. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:48, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Endorse Special school

I don't see why you endorsed it. I have provided enough reasons and still you endorsed it. Rovea (talk) 21:22, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Tina Reid/Louise Germaine

So, basically, are you maintaining that the actress "Louise Germaine" is not the former glamour model born as Tina Reid, who worked under that name and a number of other pseudonyms? Nick Cooper (talk) 17:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

No. I'm insisting that you not introduce a claim of that nature into the relevant article(s) unless it meets the requirements for reliable sourcing and the stringent requirements of WP:BLP. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 23:16, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Your problem is that you're asking for an unreasonable standard of explicit verification for something that happened 22 years ago that was - understandably - dealt with circumspectly at the time. The basic facts, though, are that "Tina Reid" appeared nude in the March 1987 Vol. 22/No. 3 issue of Mayfair, in which it was stated that it was her first modelling work, and claiming that she had just turned 17, even though it now seems widely accepted that she was born in 1971, and so wouldn't actually reach that age until 1988.

At the time, back-issues of Mayfair were usually available from the publishers for several years after publication, but whilst 22/3 was listed as available in 22/4 & 22/5, it was not subsequently. Reid went on to further modelling work under a variety of pseudonyms, including the differently-spelled "Tina Reed," "Trixie Buckingham," etc. That Reid is "Louise Germaine" is not disputed.

A report in the Daily Express on 21/08/93 (p. 35) gives Louise Germaine's age as 21, suggesting she must have been born no earlier than 22/08/71. Even allowing a couple of months for error (i.e. back to c. 20/06/71) , she would clearly have been 15 when the Mayfair set was published, let alone when the photographs were actually taken. An earlier Daily Express report (Sat 20/03/93 p. 27) at the time Lipstick on Your Collar was first transmitted specifically states:

"Her foray into topless modelling began when she was 15. After a few years she got sick of the life style."

I rest my case, and will therefore be reinstating the content to the Mayfair page. Nick Cooper (talk) 12:46, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Even If you think the requirements of WP:BLP are unreasonable, you shouldn't make controversial edits to BLPs in defiance of them. If you really want to press the case, you should present it at the BLP noticeboard rather than edit warring in order to insert policy-violating content. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:20, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

There is nothing more to discuss. The entirely legitimately citable Express piece clearly states she was 15, and I note that another editor has provides a rock-solid citation that "Louise Germaine" is Tina Reid. Nick Cooper (talk) 15:32, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Once again, take the discussion to BLP. You do not have any reliable sources saying the two persons are the same, at best only a claim that one of many pseudonyms used by a model corresponds to the reported birth name of an actress, and too much of your argument is based on the reliability of the usually fictional text accompanying a pictorial in a softcre porn magazine. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 16:03, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

It may have escaped your notice, but an eminently reliable source (the biography Potter on Potter) has already been added to corroborate that Louise Germaine is/was Tina Reid. Are you disputing that, as well? This is, of course, quite apart from the fact that "Louise Germaine" looks exactly like the photos attributed to Tina Reid/Tina Reed/Trixie Buckingham/etc. Nick Cooper (talk) 17:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

It has escaped your attention that the fact that a model's pseudonym corresponds to a person's birthname does not mean that the model and the person are one and the same -- especially when the model is known by various pseudonyms, often assigned by a photographer or publisher rather than the model herself. It also seems to have escaped your notice that the remaining claims in the paragraph you want to insert lack both reliable sources and significance in context, so it's not appropriate to include in the article anyway. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:36, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

There is no suggestion that "Tina Reid" was a pseudonym used by the model, only that the names she subsequently used were. Reid was described in Mayfair of March 1987 as coming from Margate, Kent, and that she had just moved from her mother's home to a place of her own. In the Daily Express of 27/08/93 (p. 35) "Germaine" was described as, "a former nude model from Margate, in Kent..." An interview with "Germaine" in The Guardian of 24/10/96 corroborates a childhood in Margate and states, "By the age of 15 she had had enough (of Margate) and came to London in 1986." The chances of all that being a coincidence must be astronomical; "Louise Germaine" looking exactly like Tina Reid would be completely off the scale. Nick Cooper (talk) 18:00, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Find a source actually making the identification. All the rest violates WP:NOR. Nothing you cite from Mayfair satisfies WP:RS, by the way. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 18:04, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

And the fact that the Tina Reid looks exactly like "Louise Germaine"? Why is Mayfair uncitable? Where is the specific page on Misplaced Pages that says it is not? Nick Cooper (talk) 18:22, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

WP:NOR. WP:RS. EOD Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 18:57, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

So where exactly does it say in either of those that Mayfair is uncitable? It seems to me that you've argued yourself into a corner because you didn't actually expect anyone could demonstrate that "Louise Germaine" is/was Tina Reid. The bottom line is that at the time Lipstick on Your Collar was broadcast, "Louise Germaine" was almost immediately identified as the glamour model who used numerous pseudonyms, but started her career under her real name of Tina Reid, the latter confirmed for "Germaine" in the Dennis Potter biography. A perfectly reputable source - i.e. the Daily Express - clearly stated that she was 15 when that career began. It seems you spend all your time on Misplaced Pages purging uncited details, but what is your motivation for this particular piece of revisionism? Nick Cooper (talk) 02:05, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of List of mainstream films with unsimulated sex

An article that you have been involved in editing, List of mainstream films with unsimulated sex, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of mainstream films with unsimulated sex (2nd nomination). Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Steve Dufour (talk) 05:48, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Reasons why you've characterized description of subject's video, subject's own links, as "spam"

(1) Can you please read Talk:Iman Crosson#Including descriptions of Crosson's videos and explain your 22 Nov 2009 removal of an objective description of a subject's own prior video as supposedly being spam? (A major part of the subject's notability is the very activity of producing videos.) . . . . . (2) Similar request: please read Talk:Iman Crosson#Including links to Crosson's official websites and explain your 22 Nov 2009 removal of links to some of subject's own websites as supposedly being spam. Thank you. RCraig09 (talk) 02:45, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

John De Groot

Did you take a look at the previously deleted version? -- Mattinbgn\ 00:58, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't have access to it, and I don't see how it could be relevant. If the tone of this version bothers you, simply clean out whatever language you feel to be excessively peacock in nature. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 01:01, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Brad Hunt (disambiguation)

Enjoy! Delicious carbuncle (talk) 17:12, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

I'd again like to thank the many editors and admins who've been dealing with the current vandalism sprees on my user and talk pages and the user/talk pages of other editors, especially those who've themselves become targets of the vandal as a consequence. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:27, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Your BLP contributions

		The BLP Barnstar
		For taking on many contentious BLP articles and maintaining your ground when enforcement gets messy, I hereby award you this BLP Barnstar. Cheers, Jezebel'sPonyo 17:23, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Veronika Zemanová

Yeah, I was uncertain on this one, so I undeleted it because I couldn't really tell from my short search if she was a playmate or not. If not, put a speedy tag on it and I'll delete. Dreadstar ☥ 18:11, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Bah! On further investigation, I can find no indication of notability that meets Misplaced Pages policy, so I've deleted the article and left a note for the editor who was advocating for her. Dreadstar ☥ 03:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

She's not a Playmate, they won't shoot anyone who has appeared nude elsewhere first. Was first shot by J. Stephen Hicks and appeared at ddgirls.com in 1998, then as a Penthouse centerfold in '99 I believe. I was the producer of that site then & remember her first day on the job. No sense of humor that one. Lexlex (talk) 07:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Your userpage

Do you want me to semiprotect it longterm (or indefinitely) ? J.delanoy_adds 06:47, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Hey, figured you could use this, man...

vn-∞	This user page has been vandalized many, many times.

Cheers! Outback the koala (talk) 08:32, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Typo?

Hi HW, I think you have a typo in your recent comment at the gay porn performer AfD. You say that 62 items are sourced to the Adam 2004 directory, then you say 29 items are sourced to the same directory. Should one of those be a different year? (BTW, you might think about archiving some old discussions from this page - it's rather large. :) )

Thanks, I've fixed the date to 1999. One of the footnotes in the article was glitched, and I didn't catch it (or the fact that there was another footnote with more cites to the 1999 directory.) Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

RfA question

I saw your question, but I have to be off the internet for a few hours and will respond once I get back online. Just wanted to alert you on this as I responded elsewhere on the RfA. cheers. -SpacemanSpiff

That's fine; it's a (deliberately) pointed question and it concerns a significant, complex issue. I'd hoped you'd take some time to consider your answer. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 16:15, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Scott Storch

I wanna give you some due credit - good job cleaning up that page. MattDredd (talk) 05:56, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Tina Turner

No, you didn't miss anything. The link I have to the article isn't one that is available to the passerby as it is to a subscription site. There isn't a requirement that sourcing be available online or a link provided for a reference for it to be valid. I added an abbreviated link to the article that brings up the same page instead of the detailed one. Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:30, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

General Question

Hi established wikipedia editor. I have a question. For example, Glenn Gilberti - his name is spelt wrong here. How do I edit the main heading so that it'll be "Glenn Gilbertti" (with two ts). I'm not sure how to go about doing this. Thanks in advance. Marty2Hotty (talk) 10:50, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

First of all, you need a solid, reliable source to establish the spelling. I did a quick search, found that both spellings are used, but that "Gilberti" is used about five times more frequently online, and is also clearly the more common spelling in news sources. So I wouldn't change the spelling until you get consensus on the article's talk page. If you do, the process would be to move the page rather than edit the title (it can't be edited directly). Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 15:01, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

- Hullaballoo... I know Glenn, and he has done interviews and written columns on WrestleZone.com - his last name is spelt Gilbertti. He also has a facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=730862806 - that is his real spelling. His name has been spelt incorrectly in news sources because he used to go by his alias "Disco Inferno". Can you guide me through the process of moving the article? Marty2Hotty (talk) 00:10, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

- Update - I have moved the article to "Glenn Gilbertti" myself after going through the help pages on wikipedia regarding how to move articles. I know this is the correct spelling and it has been confirmed on columns on wrestlezone.com - http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/article/random-thoughts-belts-are-props-part-one-58899 is an example. Thanks again for your help. Marty2Hotty (talk) 00:38, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

High schools notable?

You may want to weigh in on the debate going on here: Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(organizations_and_companies)#All_High_Schools_Notable.3F_GUIDELINE_DEBATE since you were one of the editors whose consensus inspired that debate. ɳoɍɑfʈ 05:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Ophélie Bretnacher

Dear Hullaballoo, The case Bretnacher Ophelia is a problem of non-judicial and police cooperation between France and Hungary, violating the Treaty of Lisbon. is a matter concerningth are human rights and democracy in Europe espacially France and Hungary Best regards

1 -Many people in Paris are reading this discussion page and have pointed out that Hell in a Bucket looked alone to decide. Moreover he has also noticed on another page, I was suspected of creating pages for films that do not exist ????? What this new charge yet?

2 - is it normal, that Hell in a Bucket notifie that "that time is not now" at 15:24, 12 December 2009 (UTC) than the discussion ins't closed, and it can maybe change, if other people want to KEEP this article ? 3

3 - What do other people think, now that they know that it is not a commemoration page, but the page on The Ophélie Bretnacher case wich is very important in France and Hungary , butnot for you, we have seen ? The problem is really, are you open for other civilisations here in U.S.A ? Or your Wiki in english is it just for american knowledge ?

Raymondnivet (talk) 11:05, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Book series covers

Hey Hullabaloo, I seem to remember your being involved in a WP:NFCC discussion about having book series cover images in articles about the series of books, was there ever a resolution to that question? It was regarding these IFD's, and now the same covers are being put up again, per this reasoning. Dreadstar ☥ 03:12, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Riyadh_Shikawi

Hello. Could you please take a look at my reply to your !vote on this AfD? I am concerned by your rationale and another thought also struck me while I replied to you. I think you'd probobly be able to answer my question pretty well. Thanks and happy editting.--v/r - TP 03:16, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Chase Masterson

Hello HW. I've just blocked an IP who recently edited this article, per User talk:166.205.130.250#December 2009. I do not know if this is a sock, but it is quite unlikely to be a sock of Cubert. EdJohnston (talk) 02:03, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Saturday Night Live

A proposal has been created for WikiProject Saturday Night Live. Please leave comments, and consider joining as a potential project member.Mainly.generic (talk) 13:59, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Iris Chacon

Learn Spanish you will get the joke, just because you do not speak the language does not mean it is a sujective interpretation. Also there is not a copyright violation. RichardBond (talk) 01:47, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

List of political dissidents

I disagree with adding Jesus, John the Baptist or Martin Luther as political dissidents, because they were at best religious dissidents, not political dissidents. Anybody with half a brain today knows that religion and politics are always meant to be separate nowadays, and that adding such examples is the absolute height of impertinence. Plus, there is also room for disagreement about whether Jesus was a dissident, since he clearly thought that the real dissidents were the pharisaic Jews, having ordrered them to render unto Caesar. ADM (talk) 18:03, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Reversions

I noticed that 3/4 of your edits have to do with some type of reverting. Is this a second-hand account of another user that is meant only for reverting ? If it is, I think the account in question should probably be blocked. ADM (talk) 19:38, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Why would being an RC patroller mean this is a sock? tedder (talk) 19:51, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't think he's an RC patroller, I think he's something else. ADM (talk) 19:53, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Mark Lloyd

You cite as your reason for censoring my post on Mark Lloyd's page that it is "subjective commentary, intended as derogatory." All I did was quote the guy, how is that subjective? And it's what he said, so if there was any intention to be derogatory it was his his, not mine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Countervaling (talk • contribs) 22:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, we can begin with your statement that "Lloyd had some very troubling things to say about the First Amendment," which is obviously subjective and less than complimentary. And selective quotation is a well-known mode of character assassination. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:40, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Chris Daly

I have two issues:

1. How is a cited reference to a major newspaper considered vandalism?

2. Why would the examiner (sfgate) be blacklisted? I don't understand this....

KermitClown (talk) 01:05, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't mean to be sticking my beak in, but I second Hullaballoo Wolfowitz that you, KermitClown, are a vandal. I've reviewed your contributions and you seem to be adding nothing helpful nor useful to any of these articles. I'm just saying, I have no problem supporting a ban on you. Geeky Randy (talk) 06:51, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe that is the issue at hand here. Why is a newspaper blacklisted from this particular article? I cna't find anywhere that it was. KermitClown (talk) 19:13, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I might as well apply to become an administrator/moderator, as you sir, have zero credibilty in my opinion. Seems you simply blanket categorize things as vandalism if someone does not share your POV. This is true of your characterizations of the Daly article. Seems like you go around and revert edits, like a bull in a china shop and never have any original edits to contribute. KermitClown (talk) 20:21, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Sylvia El Nakkady

While I agree with your assessment that notability is asserted, I later found that the entire section that I had marked off-topic was a copyvio and I promptly removed it. What's left is a sub-stub that does not assert anything, and I am unable to find references about Ms. El Nakkady (though the magazine itself gets a lot of ghits), in fact I am not even able to locate any primary sources. Do you think this should go to AfD? -- Blanchardb -- timed 00:26, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Done here. -- Blanchardb -- timed 01:02, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I just posted to the AFD, coincidentally. I wish I'd suggested PRODding it originally -- better yet, PRODded it myself; with the copyvio gone there's not enough to support a decent stub. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 01:14, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Your revert

Despite your revert, please note , , , , and . Not only are you somehow not "a neutral editor doing the restore", the title just keeps appearing in edit summaries, as an anchor, etc. This is what I mean, i.e. anyone who critiques him is somehow not neutral and anyone who warns him will have his/her warnings ignored. Sincerely, --A Nobody 19:23, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

A Nobody is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Don't eat yellow snow!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:Flaming/MC2008}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

To those who make Good Arguments, who are appreciative, or supportive. Sincerely, --A Nobody 19:43, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Claudia Costa

My apologies for removing the AFD tag from Claudia Costa I checked both the original AFD and the deletion review but did not notice the 2nd AFD. Thanks for adding the tag back in. RP459 (talk) 18:11, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Nadine Janssen

Would you happen to know why did I get a bot message saying that the Nadine Janssen article that apparently I created is scheduled for deletion? I mean I have never started that article. Why would I be getting the message then? Norum 01:56, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

(stalker, replying) Looks like you worked on it very early on. tedder (talk) 02:03, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I worked on it back then, but I never started the article. Norum 19:33, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Note the message says "An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on". Emphasis on "or worked on". tedder (talk) 19:36, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

How could it be deleted if the MAJORITY said to keep the article? 6 were to keep it, 5 to delete it. So technically that should have been kept. So much for the fairness on Misplaced Pages. Pathetic. Norum 14:41, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Because the keep !votes were correctly discounted as not based in policy. In addition, most of the keep !votes seem to come from an IP stalker of mine who's just come off a block for sockpuppetry and deserves another one. You could take this to DRV, but you'd get your head handed to you rather quickly. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:45, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I got Puma Swede reinstated in January 2009, I will get Nadine Jansen reinstated too. Norum 17:36, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

snl archives

the snl archives is a reliable site. It is accurate when detailing a show and a season.

http://snl.jt.org/season.php?i=1975

For example that link right there provides all the episodes, all the cast and the number of times live from... was said. It provides proof with pictures from the episode. The source is credible, by using the archives information we can calculate the number of times live from... was said and give it off to help wikipedias page. It very important, it shows how the cast member has importance in the show. Just like how the best of section the update section, it shows the importance of the cast member in their era. It would greatly help fans just as how the other sections on the page are. I dont understand why the archvies arent a good enough source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Water78 (talk • contribs) 16:14, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Whatever you may think of it, it's a self-published site failing WP:RS, and may not be used to source claims regarding living persons. Rather than arguing with individual editors about settled policy issues, you should familiarize yourself with the relevant policies and be sure your edits comply with them. The many uncontroverted warnings on your talk page should demonstrate this beyond doubt. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 16:19, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

You removed the photo attached to the article "Loek van Mil". I shot this photo myself, so there's no copyright infringement. The picture only needs to be reduced to a proper size, I did not know how to do that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OutfieldAssist (talk • contribs) 17:59, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

which is the best?

As a courtesy often overlooked by nominators, which is the most neutral way to post a note about Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Peter Hudecki (2nd nomination) on the talk pages of the article's editors and particpants of the previous AFD? Schmidt, 00:41, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Advanced URL: User_talk:MichaelQSchmidt#Peter_Hudecki_.282nd_AFD.29 Ikip 16:15, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Shimuzu

It is a double created article discussed at the BLPN and I am moving the contents and creating a redirect. Off2riorob (talk) 22:00, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, that might be, the situation has sat at the BLPN for some time and I was just doing what I thought was correct, I have not trashed anything, I have moved all the content to the talkpage of the other article and added the cats and externals there, yes some trimming needs to be done and it does appear a bit fan site I tagged it myself, I have never done a redirect myself and have asked a question as regards doing it at the wiki help desk, feel free if I have made some wheels drop off I will revert all my edits as regards this. Off2riorob (talk) 22:09, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Suzanne Carlsson

Hi,

Before these deletions, did you consider taking the time to have a look for better sources? I wasn't aware that The Sun was considered an inherently unreliable source either: can you point me to that discussion? While the sourcing could be better, I generally opt for Web-accessible references for new articles because they're easier to verify than offline publications (especially newspapers and magazines). I don't think there's reason to believe that the content in question is actually false, and it forms the basis of the article's notability. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

The unreliable source was "chickipedia," an anyone-can-edit site. The Sun-referenced content was removed because the text in the article didn't match what was actually written in the source; and what was written in the source, as characterized there, wasn't verifiable and/or encyclopedic. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 15:35, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

There are primary sources for her height (the thing referenced to Chickipedia) if you're just looking for verification. As for the stuff verified to the Sun, again I'd like to see where the discussion was which concluded that it automatically wasn't a reliable source. I've seen at least two separate scans of tabloid articles which contain the information in question. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 19:10, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

One more time: the article content referenced to the Sun article didn't match up with what the Sun article actually said, and what little that was verifiable wasn't encyclopedic. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:15, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Just so I'm clear here: you're suggesting that an article which says the following:

MODEL Suzanne claims to have the longest legs in Scotland - at a whopping 44 INCHES. ... She even insured them once for a staggering £1million.

does "not match up" with the material added, which said:

Carlsson ... is on record as having the longest legs of any Scottish person, with an inside leg measurement of 36.5 in (93 cm) and an outside measurement of 46.5 in (118 cm). Her legs are insured for 1 million pounds sterling.

Even given the discrepancy of the actual measurement, the actual content of both sections syncs up pretty neatly. Before I take this to a third opinion, care to reconsider the deletion? I'm happy for it to be tagged for better sources, but this was really a baby-with-the-bathwater moment IMO. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 22:49, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

You've got it. "Suzanne claims to have" is not the same as "is on record as having"; and "insured them once" is no the same as "are insured." BTW, the latter claim is a well-known type of publicity stunt, and the "insurance policy" is typically low-cost, short-duration, very limited protection --a non-significant event.

Thanks. I'd have appreciated that fuller explanation when I first asked. I'll see whether I can find any better references for the leg length claim. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:02, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Juan Manuel Rodriguez (writer)#Requested move

Hi Hullaballoo Wolfowitz. Because you participated in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Juan Manuel Rodriguez (writer), you may be interested in the rename discussion at Talk:Juan Manuel Rodriguez (writer)#Requested move. Thanks, Cunard (talk) 18:22, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Zooey Deschanel Discography

Hi Hullaballoo: I first added "In the Sun" without reference, which was removed by Andrewlp1991 stating appropriately "...If you believe the information that you added was correct, please cite the references or sources or before making the changes..." I then added back including appropriate references, but you removed it again citing andrewlp. What's that about? {Sec906 (talk) 18:14, 5 January 2010 (UTC)}

The references aren't appropriate, especially for a BLP. The first reference is to a blog, which is treated as self-published and generally fails WP:RS. The second source, last.fm, relies on user-supplied content and material copied from Misplaced Pages (note in particular the "edit" function on the page you referenced). The third ref goes to a retail site, also generally inappropriate (especially for unreleased material, where Amazon is willing to solicit orders before a release/date is solidly set). Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:00, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks, I shall try to be more careful. Then as for Munchausen By Proxy being a fictional band, I think an appropriate source might be http://stereogum.com/archives/zooey_deschanel_does_synth_pop_for_the_new_jim_car_040631.html Would you agree? In part, my issue is that the current Misplaced Pages entry seems to present this as an actual band rather than make it clear this band is fictional. {Sec906 (talk) 21:40, 5 January 2010 (UTC)}

Reference "...and first single 'In the Sun'..." http://www.mergerecords.com/blog/2009/12/she-him-reveal-volume-two-details/ is the news blog for Merge Records. Although a blog, it is not user editable and is from their own record label's site. Does that not qualify as reliable? Sorry for the hassle, and thanks for your help on this. {Sec906 (talk) 21:56, 5 January 2010 (UTC)}

Those refs look good enough to me; a corporate blog (as opposed to a personal blog) is generally an acceptable source for claims related to the corporation's business, so long as the claims aren't inappropriately self-serving. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 04:57, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! {Sec906 (talk) 05:04, 7 January 2010 (UTC)}

Here is my concern

I normally find you to be pretty balanced on AfD's, but in the case of the Cash Prince, I feel you're on a slippery slope. GNG is being used to shoehorn in non-notable people. For example, if my local paper (which passes WP:RS does a profile on the local karate instructor that opened a new school, he passes GNG as you are applying it. It is significant coverage (he is the subject) and the source is reliable and third party. Is that really what you believe the intent of GNG is? Is that where you want Misplaced Pages to go? My other question is about the criterias for different classes. Have you seen many examples, of a politician that doesn't pass GNG but does pass WP:POLITICIAN? Niteshift36 (talk) 14:56, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

DGG recently added a comment to the AFD that I think accurately presents the position I hold. I'd add that a working consensus has been developed at AFDs that an obituary article (not just a local story, death notice or short wire story) in a national newspaper of record like the NYTimes is sufficient evidence of notability, and that similar reasoning covers profiles of living persons in such media. The significance of coverage increases with the importance of the source, and sometime a single source is enough if the publisher is important enough. (There's a very strong, related argument that the likelihood of a subject being covered only in a national newspaper of record, without prior or subsequent coverage elsewhere, is vanishingly low, so that requiring a search for other coverage would call for wasted effort. It's the same principle that justifies most of the specialized notability guidelines.) Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:14, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

So how do I get AfterElton counted as "reliable".

It's a very professional & important Blog for LGBT-in-the-media issues, and that was a article that covered events on the show, not speculation. For now I'll replace the source with one from the Howard Stern show website itself that the article linked to, but how do I get AfterElton counted as "reliable" so I can use it for future referencing?----occono (talk) 20:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Miss Pooja

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Miss Pooja. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Misplaced Pages:Notability and "What Misplaced Pages is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Miss Pooja (2nd nomination). Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:10, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Kiana Tom

Since you want to be snarky with your edit summaries, I won't worry about tip-toeing around. You're being pedantic about the Playboy appearence. She was completely nude, everyone knows it and it was one of their best selling issues. You keep citing BLP.....exactly which part of BLP is the problem? The issue isn't libelous or contentious. She isn't ashamed of it and readily admits it. There is plenty of proof, but the images are copyrighted. What exactly do you think the phrase "posed for Playboy" is supposed to mean? In family friendly RS's, like newspapers, they tend to avoid being overly descriptive of things like what nude photos showed. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:06, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

• The NY Post article DOES specify nude. I am restoring it. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:09, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
  • I just realized the Post articles title is "FLEX' AND SEX; ESPN AND MTV STARS STRIP FOR PLAYBOY". What do you think "strip" means? Even if you don't have access to the full article (which isn't my problem), the title alone should make you think maybe you're being a little too picky about this issue. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:15, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Michael Richards

Is there some reason you reverted without comment? Have you read the Talk:Michael_Richards#Consensus_section established on the article's talk page? HesAKramer (talk) 18:44, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Let's see.

1. It's not supported by the source cited as a reference for it.
2. It's an unsupported claim regarding a living person, and therefore a BLP violation.
3. A three-year-old "consensus" to disregard sourcing and BLP requirements is utterly worthless.
4. Despite that weird little "consensus" claim on the talk page, the content was removed from the article more than two years ago, withou any apparent challenge until you added it back yesterday.
5. You're fairly obviously a sockpuppet / SPA and your intentions are vandalous.
6. The edit was accurately flagged as problematic by a valid edit filter, putting the burden on editors who wish to keep it.
   

That should be good enough for now. Y'all don't come back now, y'hear. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:14, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

You seem to dislike having been shown that you were in error. Had you taken five minutes to actually the article's talk page instead of blindly reverting false positives from the edit filter, you'd have seen the Washington Post source used in the section:

"The man continued to yell back at Richards, saying several times, "That was uncalled for!" He called Richards a series of names, including "cracker" and " white boy" and disparaged his post-"Seinfeld" career."

Why not admit that you screwed up and move on? There's a long-standing consensus on that article's talk page to include this part of their exchange, and you have no reason to keep deleting it now except for petty vindictiveness. HesAKramer (talk) 18:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Marketa Belonoha

Hi Wolf, I just reviewed you recent edits to the Marketa Belonoha article. You removed 70% of the text in the article plus a long and carefully compiled list of her work. Most of the text was sourced. You seem to be selective in your deletions as you removed all mention of nudity and left other text even though what you deleted and what you removed were from the same source. This is not proper or neutral editing. Judging from the threads above, it would seem that this kind of selective editing may be a pattern with you. I hope you are able to alter this pattern soon. -- — Kbob • Talk • 20:07, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

John Kricfalusi

Someone's been adding a "Criticisms" (sic) section, which doesn't follow the BLP guidelines. Could your bot watch the page and revert these edits? ----IsaacAA (talk) 13:04, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Please be careful

I'm sure this was just an oversight but in the same edit you removed the few sources that were listed as references while adding a tag asserting that the article had no references. You also dated that tag September 2007 rather than any current date. -- Banjeboi 08:41, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Brasileirinhas

I'm really bored of your ill edits. You even delete parts that have proper references on the relevant articles. Now, this is what genuine vandalism is. Understand? Behemoth (talk) 07:40, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Dilini mi yuttun amına goduumun, dinini ekmeeni siktiimin pici? Behemoth (talk) 11:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Talvin DeMachio

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Talvin DeMachio. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Misplaced Pages:Notability and "What Misplaced Pages is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Talvin DeMachio. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:11, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

You appear to be calling me a fraud

I object to your recent edit comments. You appear to be maligning my edits. Are you calling me some sort of fraud? Please raise your complaint on the correct dispute resolution process rather than maligning me in edit comments. This source had a perfectly adequate discussion on Talk:List of male performers in gay porn films/Archive 3#RfC Use of the Adam Gay Video Directory as a reliable source. If you wish to challenge it, again then do so but desist from removing properly sourced material from the articles in the meantime. Ash (talk) 22:38, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

No. You are misrepresenting the situation. You are presenting a link to a retailer page which acknowledges that it is a Misplaced Pages mirror, with word-for-word identical text, with a description claiming it is an independent source. You changed the description after I pointed out it was a mirror page. I don't see any good faith in your behavior. Don't post here again. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:51, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Grace Sharington

Thank you for the feedback. I will make citations corrections change tone to be less promotional. I know Grace personally and she used to go by Amy Gilbertson. She was in Miss America and runner up to Miss Iowa. I will site her accomplishments and also correct any inadvertent deceptions on my part. I am NOT a promoter, my name is Jeffrey Fry and am a personal friend of Ms. Sharington and thought her life noteworthy. Of course, I bow to your guidelines as you see fit to implement and thank you for your understanding and consideration. You can find me on LinkedIn and Facebook. I live in Austin, TX (jxf@austin.rr.com) is my email address and I invest and help start ups. Jeteye (talk) 19:02, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Removed info about 3rd person that is not verifiable, incorrect name. Added link to pageant winner. Jeteye (talk) 21:17, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Jocelyn Wildenstein

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Jocelyn Wildenstein. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Misplaced Pages:Notability and "What Misplaced Pages is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jocelyn Wildenstein. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:07, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Tapuah junction stabbing DrV

Hi HW: I think you have a typo (loser instead of closer) in the DrV which could, in theory, be taken poorly. Hobit (talk) 19:50, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

AAARRRGGGHHHH. Thanks. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:46, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

User:B-Wuuu

Hello. Would you object to your AN/I report being moved to AN, which is better suited to that kind of discussion? Because there's no specific "incident" to deal with, stuff like that sometimes gets overlooked on AN/I. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:56, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

If that's where it belongs, it should be moved there. I don't know the mechanics of doing it ,though. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:01, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Let me give it a try. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:09, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, I've made the move. AN is generally a better place for behavioral or status questions to be handled that aren't centered on a specific disruptive incident, so I believe that the move is entirely justified. We'll see if an admin objects to it. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:24, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

The AN report has now scrolled off the board without any action being taken, so I have filed a sockpuppet report here, if you'de like to comment. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:22, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

And he's filed an AN/I complaint against me here. Beyond My Ken (talk) 10:49, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

He's been blocked. Beyond My Ken (talk) 11:37, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Benjamin Millepied

Thank you for cleaning up Benjamin Millepied; Misplaced Pages does not need to resemble Us. — Robert Greer (talk) 00:21, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Your comment at AN/I

You commented on a closed discussion, FYI. I reverted your edits/comments. Please take it to RFC/U if the discussion is opened up there. This is to keep everything closed, and everyone calm and to let the discussion either die or go to the appropriate place. Dusti 19:31, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm curious as to the authority of a non-admin to close an ANI discussion in the absence of an expressed consensus that it be closed. It strikes me that I would have just as much right to reopen it as you had to close it. I don't see where you have any right to expunge my comments, regardless of your opinion of their propriety. Perhaps you could identify a relevant policy, guideline, precedent or practice.

I'd also note that when I posted my comments, I did not receive the standard conflict notice, which I should havr received if my edit was subsequent to your closing edit (however valid that was). That suggests to that there's some sort of glitch involved, and you ought to respect in good faith my posting.

I'd also point out that my comments go well beyond the scope of the purported RFC/U, which I think has been framed as an attempt to intimidate editors with whom Ash has been in conflict. As someone who's been the target of Ash's innuendo in the recent past, I also think I should be seen as having a right to comment on discussions where Ive been involved by implication. You should restore my comments, and I also believe you should remove your unilateral closure without consensus. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:02, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Dusti 20:07, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Dusti 20:11, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Dusti 20:20, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I restored your edit

While it's clear that very little "action" will be taken on this matter, Dusti doesn't get to decide who can or can not have their say. The typical way things are handled at AN/I is that conversation is allowed to go on until it peters out on its own, unless that conversation is total nightmare. While your mileage may vary on "total nightmare", that conversation doesn't even rise to the level of "minor dustup." Best.Bali ultimate (talk) 20:28, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks very much. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:34, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Swift

Yes, I guess you're right. - Stillwaterising (talk) 17:17, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

And you thought nobody noticed...

...Well, it may have something to do with the incredibly long watchlist I insist on maintaining, but I did:

		The Invisible Barnstar
		For all your hard work in the background, particularly in keeping crap out of BLPs. When I see your name on my watchlist, I know that's one less mess I have to clean up! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:29, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Keep up the good work! Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:29, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Following up on concerns about User:Ash's use of citations

Please see this draft RFC/U. I'm not sure why this couldn't have been dealt with at ANI, but since it wasn't I'm following up with an RFC/U as suggested. I have told Ash of my intention to file this, for what it's worth. Let me know if you have any comments or additions (feel free to just make changes). I'll submit it in the next day or so, depending on the feedback I receive. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 18:14, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Ke$sha and SNL

You removed Ke$sha's scheduled performance on SNL citing WP:BLP concerns. Can you please participate in the discussion here. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:53, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

3rr reply

Thanks for the heads up! Fixer23 (talk) 03:56, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Grace Sharington

On the talk, I proposed stubifying the article and I just wanted to alert you to it to see what you think. Thanks!  Mbinebri  01:00, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Donzaleigh Abernathy

Hi there.

Re. recent additions to Donzaleigh Abernathy which you removed; I spoke to a user in the help channel (at length), and what happened is this;

Donzaleigh (talk · contribs) added something somewhat promotional and unreferenced, several times. They did not understand Misplaced Pages policies on WP:BRD etc. They were warned.

Their friend, Madamewus (talk · contribs), then tried to add exactly the same thing - and was blocked as a sock.

Madamewus came into the IRC help channel, and I explained all about policies etc; they requested an unblock (see their talk page), and they now intend to explain what they would like to add on talk:Donzaleigh Abernathy, and they will provide references.

Therefore, please could you look out for their discussion there, and comment on it. Many thanks,  Chzz  ►  18:19, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Grace Sharington

An article that you have been involved in editing, Grace Sharington, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Grace Sharington. Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. -- WikHead (talk) 20:37, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

India Allen

Why was Category:American female adult models inappropriate for India Allen? Jason Quinn (talk) 20:24, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Because she's not an "adult model." That's a term with no well-defined meaning, and derogatory connotations. Per WP:CAT, categories must "be based on essential, 'defining' features of article subjects," a test that this amorphous characterization, with no defining criteria, clearly fails. Categories are also appropriately defined in terms of occupation, and the fact that a model has done some "glamour" work does not establish an occupation. WP:BLP requires that "the case for each category must be made clear by the article text and its reliable sources," a standard that the "adult model" category fails in this and similar cases. Finally, BLP also requires that "Caution should be used with categories that suggest a person has a poor reputation," a standard which both the title of this category and the association of mainstream models with hardcore pornographic performers violates. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:40, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely cut-n-dry definitions for categories are a rare luxury among the categories. This category, Category:American female adult models, is defined well-enough: an adult model is any model that features sexually in material that can only be sold to adults. Regardless of your interpretations of WP:CAT, the category currently exists at Misplaced Pages and is extensively used. I do not accept your rejection of this category as being too amorphous to use. Lastly, it is a fact that some categories have a stigma and some people do logically belong to them. This does not mean those categories should not be used. Are we to remove Category:Murderers because of its stigma? WP:BLP urges caution because you should use the categories wisely, but you are still to call a spade, a spade. That said, it's not clear to me that this category has a strong stigma, especially these days. If you harbor derogatory connotations over "adult modeling", that is your or some segment of society's prejudice. I see no obvious malice involved with including her in this category and in any case, she included herself. As far as I'm concerned: India Allen appeared in Playbody. India Allen is an adult model. This is not even a close decision. Jason Quinn (talk) 01:41, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I obviously disagree; the discussion on the recent category deletion proposal is contrary to your position, and the applicable policies/guidelines don't line up with your position. The fact that general policies and guidelines may not be followed in a particular case simply shows the need for cleanup, not an exemption from general rules -- especially when BLP is involved. Finally, I'd note that the category definition you provide here is completely different from the description you unilaterally added to the category page -- a clear signal, I'd say, that the definition is hardly as well-established as you insist. (And what would be your source for the assertion that Playboy is legally available only to adults?) Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 01:22, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Could you wikilink to the discussion so I can join in? Haven't found it via Google. Jason Quinn (talk) 04:10, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Were you talking about this? Jason Quinn (talk) 04:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

That's it, although it's closed now. If the subject is to be reopened, BLPN would be the appopriate place to resume. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:40, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Hullaballoo: can you list some of the article pages that you think do belong in this category? Tim Pierce (talk) 23:39, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Since I've been checking the articles alphabetically, the remaining A's give a reasonable set of examples. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 23:42, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

DanniGirl TFDs

Hi, Hullabaloo. I consolidated the separate TFD nominations you created for the DanniGirl navboxes. Since the function and deletion rationale for each one is identical, it seems likely that they will either all be kept or all be deleted. If you think combining them will be a problem for some reason, please leave me a note on my talk page. Thanks. --RL0919 (talk) 19:00, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Sorry

I warned you for reverting, meant to hit the ip!! --Aka042 (talk) 03:13, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Jazmin

what unreferenced laundry list? don't get so carried away. all of these films are published material and are verifiable sources. you inability to check them out doesn't make it unreferenced. Aditya 08:56, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Category: American_female_adult_models

Although you nominated this category for deletion, the decision was Keep the category (on April 8).

I notice that since then you've removed almost 40 articles from this category. Please could you explain this action? Thanks. MissBeastly 23:10, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, Miss SPA/Sockpuppet, since you've noticed the discussion, you should also be aware that no one disputed the need for substantial cleanup, or that, as another editor put it, this category stands in relation to the general model category the same way the pornographic film actors category stands to the general film actors category, and no one denied the BLP problems or the failure to conform to the general categorization policies. Now don't post here again without using your standard Misplaced Pages account. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 23:17, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey there, Hullaballoo Wolfowitz, MissBeastly has asked me to post here so that you can receive some wider opinions on the dispute. It appears to me that most the articles that you have removed from the category in question were placed in the category appropriately. If you believe otherwise then the best thing to do is start a discussion on the article talkpages concerning the matter, if consensus is that the article/s should be removed from the category then it can be, otherwise it should stay. You should also note that your current actions seem to be going against the consensus established here. You must establish a new consensus before trying to change the category in the way that you are currently doing so. Finally, referring to MissBeastly as a sockpuppet with out providing any evidence goes against the principal of WP:AGF, please try and stick to discussing the matter at hand. If you have evidence against them you're welcome to open an SPI case, otherwise please do not continue to accuse them of sockpuppetry. Kindest regards, Spitfire 23:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps. Like I said, you're welcome to open an SPI case on it so long as you can present ample evidence. I'm not really interested in getting too involved in this matter, just wanted to offer you a third opinion. Putting the issue of any possible sockpuppetry aside, I still think that you need to reconsider your actions in regard to Category:American female adult models. Kind regards, Spitfire 23:54, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

After some lenghty discussion and investigation on IRC and wiki, MissBeastly (talk · contribs) has been blocked as a sockpuppet of The Rusty Trombone (talk · contribs). Please note that this does not excuse your removal of articles from the category. Kindest regards, Spitfire 01:19, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Bhutto

Hi Hullaballoo.. I'm not seeing how this source is a Misplaced Pages mirror site. . Any information would be welcome. Thanks.(olive (talk) 01:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC))

The very last line at the bottom of that page, in tiny print, identifies the text as the "reference article from the English Misplaced Pages." Not all content at allexperts.com comes from Misplaced Pages, but everything in the "allexperts.com/e/" portion of the site mirrors Misplaced Pages, though often the copies can be out of date. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 01:35, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I missed that, and I checked the Sindhi article and it seems nothing like the allexperts.com. Well, it wasn't a great source. (Grapes were probably sour anyway.)Thanks.(olive (talk) 01:43, 13 April 2010 (UTC))

Atomic Tom (Band)

Hi,

You removed the speedy tag on this with the edit sum "remove speedy, includes credible claim of significance" - but am at a genuine loss to find that in the article - can you elaborate for me. (BTW have taken it to AfD.) Codf1977 (talk) 21:28, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Assertion that the band is signed to a notable label. Not enough on its own to demonstrate notability, but enough, in my opinion, to require a non-speedy deletion process. There could be enough out there in the music press to satisfy the GNG. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:34, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Cytherea

In re this edit , are you sure it is not her official website? --Golbez (talk) 05:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I will be putting it back unless you respond. Thank you. --Golbez (talk) 20:40, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

It's an obvious spamlink. Anyone can claim to operate such an "official site." All the link goes to is a teaser for a paysite, with no encyclopedia-relevant content. Per WP:EL, "external links to websites that require... a paid subscription to view should be avoided because they are of limited use to most readers"; official links are provided "give the reader the opportunity to see what the subject says about itself" - a standard that this link clearly fails (even if there were evidence it meets the other requirements of WP:ELOFFICIAL, which there isn't. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:48, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

use of BLP unsourced vs. BLP refimprove

Hi, i noticed your edit which added "BLP unsourced" tag to an article that had two references (in the form of external links). Please don't apply the BLP unsourced tag in such cases. You may wish to apply {{BLP refimprove}} instead. But, i and others are working to address completely unsourced BLP articles under a deadline. Thanks. --doncram (talk) 15:44, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Also there is some tag which calls for adding in-line citations, which might be appropriate instead. I reverted your edit in this case. Thanks. --doncram (talk) 15:46, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

PPS. I removed your tags in about a dozen more articles, replacing in some cases with BLP refimprove. Please discuss. Your work tagging does basically seem helpful, but IMO more precise tagging is needed. You might want to possibly participate in one or another of the wikiprojects on BLPs, by the way. --doncram (talk) 15:57, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I think you're completely off base here. The template involved is quite specific, and states that no references or sources are cited. As WP:EL states. items identified as external links are not those cited as "sources supporting article content." Your approach does not enjoy consensus support; aside from the specific language of the template, I spotchecked the first two dozen or so of the many templated pages listed here : for the valid listings, more than 90% would fail your standard, since they include external links sections, but no actual citations. I've used the same standards in tagging and reviewing hundreds/thousands of BLP for more than a yeat, and saw absolutely no objections to this approach until yours today, presumably because I assessed the in=practice consensus before tagging. I'm sure my tagging isn't perfect, but I think my error rate has been pretty low.

I'd also note that several of your "corrections" to my tagging are dead wrong: here, here, here, and here, you removed the refimprove tag from BLPs with substantial unsourced/unreferenced content. That's a pretty high error rate in a batch of no more than a dozen "corrections." Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:25, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh, hi again, i didn't see your response on my watchlist, and i just happened back to check. I am glad you responded and you do sound very reasonable. I am hopeful then that we can work out some understanding quickly so we are not editing at cross-purposes.

You could have operated the way you have for a year and not gotten feedback, but during most of that period the BLP unsourced issue and tagging was not focused and defined, so I would not expect you would have gotten useful feedback on exactly this. It is true that i have come into the BLP unsourced issue relatively recently, and I concede that you probably know more about many aspects of tagging articles than i do. But it happens that i am working on the BLP unsourced issue and am focused on exactly that, am involved in discussions with others too at BLP-related pages, and I am not completely uninformed. Specifically, I have had discussions with others about IMDB as a source, and I fully understand it is not a great source for many things, but it is a source and is believed by many to be reliable for some purposes. The articles here all or almost all had an IMDB profile link, as an External link. As an external link, it is there as a source in the article and the article does not qualify for "BLP unsourced".

So, I believe my corrections are not "dead wrong". Perhaps/probably it would have been better to add "BLP refimprove" and some tag calling for inline citations, instead. Do you know the proper tag for calling for inline citations? If we could sort that out, and you would agree that BLP refimproved plus that would substitute properly in these cases, then I would agree to apply that instead and we would be able to conclude this quickly. If you really think i am dead wrong to assert that external links are sources and that BLP unsourced does not apply, then we should certainly raise this elsewhere and get others views to resolve this. --doncram (talk) 03:22, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Oh, okay now i see you found your way to wt:URBLP, specifically Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons#additions going on and commented there. Good. I'll watch here, but maybe we should plan to discuss out there. --doncram (talk) 03:26, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey again. I thot we had discussion towards some consensus, but i am browsing the April 2010 BLP unreferenced category and come across a new one added by you just now, in this edit. I changed it from "BLP unsourced" to "BLP refimprove" and "nofootnotes". Could you use those two tags instead, and possibly also anything else you want to use to indicate skepticism about IMDB if you wish. But, the article has sources. The sources given as external links are the sources used in creating the article, i believe. So it is not BLP unsourced. The sources are given. Discuss here or at the wt:URBLP page, pls., if you don't agree. --doncram (talk) 21:41, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

As I pointed out, here and elsewhere, your interpretation doesn't reflect practice or consensus, and is contradicted by the express language of the tag involved. The tag has been in use for years, and there's no indication whatever that your ersatz interpretation of "cite(d)" to mean "uncited, but maybe somehow usable as a source for something somewhere in the article" holds even a drop of water. The number of users that you're disputing this point with should be a very clear signal to you that your interpretation doesn't enjoy consensus; it's way too late in the game to redefine a tag used tens of thousands of times over years of editing -- and certainly not to do so unilaterally. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:06, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey, i just came across another newly-tagged-by-you article that had general references, in this version just tagged by you. I changed it from BLPunreferenced to BLPrefimprove, like the others. Hey, what's up? I did not previously see your reply above and don't get why you would be dismissing my point. I have in fact had conversations with others, ongoing again, about IMDB source reliability, etc., at wt:URBLP. But there is no rejection there by others of the basic point that IMDB or other marginal sources are in fact sources. No one but you here, i think, is rejecting that. Please apply BLPrefimprove plus any other reliability-questioning tags you wish, instead of inflating the issue of completely unsourced BLPs. I am not redefining anything unilaterally, AFAIK. Please participate in discussions at wt:URBLP, too. --doncram (talk) 02:01, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, i return to thank you for your straight talking. You may have noticed my using new {{BLP IMDB refimprove}} and {{BLP IMDB-only refimprove}} in edits converting many "BLP unreferenced" tagged items. I converted many from April 2010 but also many from almost 3 years ago, and it does seem fairly apparent that usage has long been as you say, at least for some editors. I.e. that "BLP unreferenced" has been used to describe cases where there is IMDB and/or other references. The reason i am focused on it differently than you and others previous, now, is that i am focused on helping to meet the Misplaced Pages goal of having fewer than 30,000 unreferenced BLPs by June 1. I estimate that 4,000 or more articles in the original problem of 50,000 apparent back in January, were in fact IMDB-based articles where the labelling was incorrect. About 3,000 remain which i intend to relabel. I trust that by using these more specific tags helps rather than hurts in your and others' general effort to improve the referencing of these articles, and also is more logical / less confusing to many other editors who come across them. I did/do have some support from some other editors in this, at wt:URBLP, and have seen no other objections to my edits, so I am thinking this meets general approval. Thanks again for your comments. You seem to be doing very good work, by the way, from what i see of your edits in passing. Sincerely, --doncram (talk) 12:41, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Nudity in music videos

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Nudity in music videos. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Misplaced Pages:Notability and "What Misplaced Pages is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Nudity in music videos. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:06, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Citation in Eastern Michigan Eagles football

You recently removed a citation from this article stating that the linked page () is a Misplaced Pages mirror site. I had thought it might be, but had dismissed that idea since we don't have such an article. But apparently it was speedy deleted as "blatant copyright infringement". Searching on the entire first sentence of the article yields 22 Google results (), most of which are probably Misplaced Pages mirrors, but one of which, presumably, is the original source (because if our article was blatant copyright infringement, there had to be a source, and in my experience, 99 times out of 100, if an article is caught as blatant copyright infringement the source is online and some user just copied and pasted it). Do you have any idea which of those search results is not a Misplaced Pages mirror site? Thanks, cmadler (talk) 11:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, I think I found it. cmadler (talk) 11:58, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Adult models categories

Hi, may I ask why you are removing "adult models" categories, stating that they are "inappropriate", from bios of Playmates and Page 3 girls? This edit summary says "category not supported by article text" despite multiple mentions of topless modelling.

I'd also like to encourage you to WP:archive old sections of this talk page, as it takes a long time to load. - Fayenatic (talk) 17:23, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Because they're not "adult models." That's a term with no well-defined meaning, and derogatory connotations. Per WP:CAT, categories must "be based on essential, 'defining' features of article subjects," a test that this amorphous characterization, with no defining criteria, clearly fails. Categories are also appropriately defined in terms of occupation, and the fact that a model has done some "glamour" work does not establish an occupation. WP:BLP requires that "the case for each category must be made clear by the article text and its reliable sources," a standard that the "adult model" category fails in this and similar cases. Finally, BLP also requires that "Caution should be used with categories that suggest a person has a poor reputation," a standard which both the title of this category and the association of mainstream models with hardcore pornographic performers violates. We don't categorize Meryl Streep, Helen Mirren, Holly Hunter, Sally Field, or Glenda Jackson as "adult movie actresses," or even Kim Cattrall, Maria Schneider, and countless B-movie performers who've done topless (or more revealing) scenes. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:43, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I referred to adult model which redirects to a page including glamour photography, but it's a disambig page so evidently you are right that the term is ambiguous. It would help to add a working definition on the category pages; please check my work later. - Fayenatic (talk) 08:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm done -- is the expanded guidance in Template:Adult model, displayed on all relevant category pages, helpful? - Fayenatic (talk) 17:25, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Excellent work, clearer and more effective than I would have managed on my own. Thank you very much! Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 15:54, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I think it looks good, too! Could you both possibly consider the somewhat related issue at Misplaced Pages talk:Biographies of living persons#WikiProject Pornography tag as a BLP issue, itself. It's about wikiproject tags on Talk pages, similar but different of course to category tags on articles themselves. I may possibly cite your good wording in that discussion. --doncram (talk) 17:03, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Audrey Kitching

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Audrey Kitching. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Misplaced Pages:Notability and "What Misplaced Pages is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Audrey Kitching. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:09, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

AWMDB is not a spamlink

It's not a spamlink since it holds scene-by-scene information on the biggest market of the adult industry - online media - in the same way IAFD etc hold similar information for offline media (DVD). if you wish to discuss why you are against it there a discussion, including why it holds relevent information, that has been started on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Pornography. Add to the discussion there including any possible additional or better sources you can find with the same information. NathyWashington (talk) 14:33, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Complete and utter rubbish. It's just a collection of links to low-rent porn sites selling downloads. Links to retailer pages aren't allowed, and this is just an attempt to evade that antispamming rule. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Unless you can find me another source that has detailed information on over 35,000 online scenes such as whether they include things such as anal,interracial,lesbian etc and who stars in the scenes then it is a source of information not covered anywhere else. I'm happy to hear about a better source to replace it but don't be so naive that these sites don't have these links. Two of the biggest databases IAFD and EBI have affiliate links to both websites and DVD sales because this is how they generate their income. Don't be so naive to assume a site with links to porn is spam and I'm pretty sure the biggest companies in online porn wouldn't be considered "low-rent porn sites" they make billions of dollars a year. If we were to remove sources based on links to places that sell stuff IAFD, EBI and all other sources would be removed and tagged as spam. If I go to Priya Rai's IAFD profile there are dozens of those kinds of links (http://www.iafd.com/gallerypage.rme/perfid=priyarai/gender=f/priya-rai-gallery.htm) NathyWashington (talk) 14:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Blathering doesn't make this any less spammy, or provide a shred of a case that it meets WP:RS in any other respect. And that iafd page you scrounged up wouldn't qualify as a reference, either. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 15:00, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I used that IAFD link to refute your silly statement that because it has links to paysites that it's spam. This isn't Hullaballoopedia, neither of our opinions are fact. I won't back down on what I believe is a source of information not covered elsewhere because you are on your high horse. If you have an alternative/better source for this information, for instance if you can find me another source where I can find out the exact sites and scenes that Eva Angelina does anal or Gianna Michaels does interracial then great but until you do I will continue to undo your revisions until a wider opinion has been made in the discussion. NathyWashington (talk) 15:04, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Then you'll be blocked for edit warring and general incivility. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a playground for pornography-obsessed people with too much time on their hand. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 15:13, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Lynnda Kimball

• Hey there, re your edit comment "generic external links are not cited sources," what do you mean? I saw there is a link to a detailed profile on playboy.com for this person. Its not just a link to playboy.com. The template you added says "This biography of a living person does not cite any references or sources," which doesn't seem accurate. Cheers--Milowent (talk) 14:42, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

An external link is not an identified source; such a listing does not specify which article content (if any) was taken from the linked page. WP:EL states that such links "are not citations to sources supporting article content." Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:47, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

• So take a gander at it again, that's all that was needed?--Milowent (talk) 15:07, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

PROD on List of Playboy Playmates of 1975

Okay, let me get this straight. Individual Playmate articles are being deleted as they are not notable, so as a precautionary measure, we create "List of" articles. Now you're saying we can't create them?!? Tabercil (talk) 22:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Hank Skinner

Good evening Hullabaloo, The article about Hank Skinner is being invaded by a couple of spammers, and already the rule of the 3 reversals should go against them, they have reinserted a link of hate imitating skinner defense site. I am introducing a request of mediation. Adumoul (talk) 03:05, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Will you be responding?

Please tell me (at least a yes or no) if you will be responding meaningfully on the Talk page to Issues 1-10+ at Talk:Lisa Lavie#Troubling deletions. RCraig09 (talk) 03:38, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Daisy Marie

I added that Daisy's natural breast size was 32B. The source is from her own hand-written bio sheet that you can see at the bottom of the cited url. I also thought the video interview on that page would be useful as an external link to show her personality by how she answered a few questions. That link was removed when I first added it. I wasn't logged in at the time. I respectfully request that this not be considered spam. I think it is a good resource to learn more about the person. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by KevinG123 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

"unsourced gossip", via your deletion to my contribution

Hello I am just wondering as to why you deleted my contribution as "unsourced gossip". I'ts not "unsourced", infact I can supply many magazine articles, pictures and websites to confirm this. I would appreciate it if you would respond to my question and supply me a way to have these reposted so they corallate with other multimedia publications. I recently donated to wikipedia in quite a large sum and are in no way deliberatly vandalizing pages or the integrity of this site, as a moderator im hoping you can understand where I am coming from. I hope to resolve this issue with you soon, if not to contact wikipedia directly and its owners. thank you

scott storch -scst2890 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scst2890 (talk • contribs) 08:59, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Image kerfluffle

Just giving you a heads-up that a large number of images have been pulled from Commons that are sexual in nature, and a number of them were later found to have been in use. I'm contacting you as you're one of the more active editors on the adult stuff here. If you could watch for red-links and give me a heads up on any that you see so I can see about restoring it, I'd appreciate it. Tabercil (talk) 23:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

inre Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Anya Verkhovskaya

Sometimes we disagree at AFDs... sometimes we agree completely. I've made some decent steps toward improving Anya Verkhovskaya. Care to assist? Schmidt, 02:38, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Rochelle Loewen: I have a copyright to this photo, please do not delete it. Maybe you can help me revise it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cdheinz (talk • contribs) 01:48, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

First Saudi State

What was wrong about the way I referenced? But if it makes the article any better I'm with you mate. Dhulfiqar 20:28, 21 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spine.Cleaver (talk • contribs)

SNL movies

The office space is based off shorts that appeared on the show. So it should count towards the section. Why doesnt it? Water78 (talk)

Because the source material wasn't produced by or for SNL, and didn't first appear on SNL. SNL reran it after it had been shown elsewhere. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 15:44, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Muir Skate Longboard Shop (2nd nomination)

Hi, Hullaballoo Wolfowitz. Because you participated in Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2010 May 12#Muir Skate Longboard Shop, you may be interested in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Muir Skate Longboard Shop (2nd nomination). Cunard (talk) 02:10, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

FYI

Since I didn't know what to think of the rational for your removal of that paragraph in this edit to Nastassja Kinski, I asked for instruction on Misplaced Pages:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Nastassja_Kinski. I just though to drop you a note. Debresser (talk) 08:52, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the headsup. Quickly resolved at BLPN, no reason for redundant comments from me. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Removal of PROD from Breanne Benson

Hello Hullaballoo Wolfowitz, I have removed the {{prod}} tag from Breanne Benson and hereby inform you about this as suggested in the PROD guide. I have added my reasons on the related talk page. Although you are obviously a highly active deletionist, I hope that you are fair enough not to straight push for an AfD especially as I have little experience here so far but followed Misplaced Pages:BB by creating this article of which relevance I am convinced. Naturally I will try to improve it in style and content if possible but that can't be done by just me alone and within a few days. I respectfully hope you get my point and that I am not here for fighting.

Testales (talk) 20:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit war

Hello. You appear to be involved in an edit war on Trent Franks. While the three-revert rule is hard and fast, please be aware that you can be blocked for edit warring without making 3 reverts to an article in 24 hours. You are not entitled to 3 reverts and are expected to cooperatively engage other editors on talk pages rather than reverting their edits. Note that posting your thoughts on the talk page alone is not a license to continue reverting. You must reach consensus. Continued edit warring may cause you to be blocked. Toddst1 (talk) 23:16, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Connecticut Sun

Well, it's not my fault that moron is vandalizing the Sun page over and over again. What do you expect me to do, have him keep messing up the page for eternity?? The things that I do is not the problem, in fact vandalizing is just as bad as sending personal attacks. I'm sorry, alright, but you need to talk to that IP user and if you are an admin, block him for life. If not, find somebody and I'm sure there will be consequences sent to that IP user.

Xavier (talk) 20:07, 30 May 2010 (UTC)MR.Texan281

Jennifer Jason Leigh

Thanks for removing that allusion to her previous romances. I should have done it myself rather than just clarified the date, but still being somewhat new, I was gutless. It was a throwaway line in a fairly long article, and it had no flesh to it as to what happened or when.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:59, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Clint Catalyst - Question

Hi there. You're much more knowledgeable about this site than I could ever fathom being, so I hope that you please will note that I'm asking a question over an edit you made that I don't understand. In other words, I did not revert the edit you made a moment ago to Clint Catalyst's page because I have no desire in engaging in some silly "edit war"; on the contrary, I am contacting you in hopes that it's a mistake I will not make again on another page.

What confuses me is: when you removed the information I added in to the Andy Warhol section with the explanation "unsourced" and "citebreaking," I wonder if it's possible that I listed the reference incorrectly (?), because the article not only states the information I added; there's an accompanying photograph of Catalyst with the juxtaposition between Mick Jagger and him. I noticed this when editing Cory Kennedy's page (of whom the source also contains a photograph of her with her "paired likeness"), and made sure to re-phrase the information so that I wasn't plagiarizing it.

Again, I hope I've made it clear that I'm simply trying to learn. I intend no disrespect. Thank you!

Shellacious (talk) 00:10, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Your suppression of the Palance/Tomei Oscar incident

I moved this content from the Palance article to the 65th Academy Awards article to avoid redundancy and undue weight in the two biographies. Is it your position that the affair deserves no coverage in Misplaced Pages despite being covered in many reliable sources, or have you other plans for it? Best, 86.45.130.146 (talk) 17:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

You got it. Discredited rumors aren't encyclopedic, and typically violate WP:BLP. There wasn't any "incident." Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:43, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

That's an understandable position, but do you not agree that there are many noteworthy discredited rumours? To use an exaggerated example, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, though discredited, are a worthy topic for encyclopedic coverage, no? By analogy, I put it to you that the Palance/Tomei rumour is worthy of a brief, well-sourced section somewhere or other.

On the BLP issue, "typically" does not imply "necessarily" so I am unsure of what you are getting at with that; the coverage of the issue in the Tomei article, which you (unintentionally?) left be seems to be well-sourced, to the point and consistent with the BLP policy. The question is, if we are going to cover it, and if readers will be going to the Awards article and the Palance article to read about it, why should there not be links? Best, 86.45.130.146 (talk) 17:57, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Jessica Biel

Just wanted to remind you that you were at 3RR there.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:29, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

That's why I took the issue to AN/I, even though I didn't see any plausible justification for the disputed image use. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:07, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Jenny McCarthy Model or Adult Model

Hi You reverted my changes on Jenny McCarthy without engaging that article's talk section relevant to the edits. I created the talk section well in advance about the edits in order to discuss them. Your revision says "rv BLP violaton/issues", but on the BLP page the three core goals are

• Neutral point of view (NPOV)
• Verifiability (V)
• No original research (NOR)

Generally, descriptions of Ms. McCarthy as an adult model are more neutral than calling her a model, for the reasons discussed on her article's talk page in the section I created. That characterization is also verifiable. Can you please explain how my edits violate these goals or any of the specific guidelines on BLP? Otherwise I will re-edit the article. I encourage you to respond on the Jenny McCarthy talk page where I have a section for this. Thank you. DGGenuine (talk) 00:04, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

She's not an "adult model." That's a term with no well-defined meaning, and derogatory connotations. Per WP:CAT, categories must "be based on essential, 'defining' features of article subjects," a test that this amorphous characterization, with no defining criteria, clearly fails. Categories are also appropriately defined in terms of occupation, and the fact that a model has done some "glamour" work does not establish an occupation. WP:BLP requires that "the case for each category must be made clear by the article text and its reliable sources," a standard that the "adult model" category fails in this and similar cases. Finally, BLP also requires that "Caution should be used with categories that suggest a person has a poor reputation," a standard which both the title of this category and the association of mainstream models with hardcore pornographic performers violates. We don't categorize Meryl Streep, Helen Mirren, Holly Hunter, Sally Field, or Glenda Jackson as "adult movie actresses," or even Kim Cattrall, Maria Schneider, and countless B-movie performers who've done topless (or more revealing) scenes. You should also review WP:BURDEN. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:06, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

"Subtrivial"

"Subtrivial" isn't a word. 98.166.109.81 (talk) 06:48, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Confused

I'm not sure why you reverted my addition of the BLP IMDB-only refimprove tag to the Anu Agarwal‎ article. Of course it would be ideal to include independent sources, but at the very least the IMDB link verifies that the individual exists and that she in an Indian actress. The IMDB BLP template I used puts the article into the following categories:All articles lacking sources, Articles lacking reliable references from June 2010, Articles sourced by IMDB, and BLP articles lacking sources. As there is concensus to use these tags to separate the articles that only reference IMDB from those that have no links for verification whatsoever as part of this project, could you advise whether you have an issue with the template in general, or if there is an issue with its use in this particular instance? --Jezebel'sPonyo 22:04, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Read this discussion. There's certainly no consensus for a small group of determined users in a Wikiproject to unilaterally redefine a tag that's been in use for years, has been placed on thousands of articles, without any broad discussion and in defiance of the objections of quite a few other uses. The only function this change serves is to help pretend the BLP problem is smaller than it is by inaccurately claiming that an article which doesn't cite any references or sources. but includes external links, actually cites references/sources. That's not a positive contribution to Misplaced Pages; it's not a whole lot better than just deleting the tag and moving along. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:19, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

I can completely understand your objection to simply retagging articles in order to meet a deadline or goal without actually checking to see if the EL is related or supports any content. I take quite some time to go through the BLPs I come across and try to improve them by adding multiple sources instead of just retagging to lower the outstanding number of BLPs. Sometimes an EL actually can serve for basic verification (such as IMDB for very basic role info or an established sports site for athlete stat verification). I'm not trying to sway your interpretation as to how templates should be used, I was simply curious as to why you were adverse to the IMDB tag as I haven't previously run in to any opposition whatsoever to its use. Jezebel'sPonyo 22:49, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Ian Erix

Hi. I saw that you deleted some information off the personal life section of Ian Erix. I appreciate your efforts to keep Misplaced Pages accurate and factual but in this case the information which you are referring to as gossip has been substantiated in television interviews by both parties and has been reported on by magazines, newspapers and the like numerous times. There have evem been pubic statements released by the artists involved ant there publicists so I am un-doing your revision for these resasons. I would greatly appreciate it if you would please leave this Misplaced Pages entry as it is. Thank you kindly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giftlists123 (talk • contribs) 06:29, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

If that is the case, under Misplaced Pages's policy regarding biographies of living persons, those sources need to be cited in the article. Please also note that Erix's own blog is not an acceptable source to the extent that Erix makes otherwise uncited claims involving other living persons. The article cannot be left "as it is," as WP:BLP calls for the content at issue to be promptly removed until it is adequately sourced and includes appropriate citations. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 12:10, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Lee Camp

Don't get into an editing war with me son. You won't win. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.232.230 (talk) 04:06, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Chris Noth

Hello. I feel you're going way over the line in using a talk page and edit summary to accuse another editor (not me) of vandalism when everyone is doing their best to improve a collective work. Could you do me a favour and check over WP:AGF again?--Alistair Stevenson (talk) 20:27, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, you're simply wrong. If you had bothered to check out the history of this dispute, you'd have seen that the editor you're defending is pretty clearly an SPA/sockpuppet who's already been blocked once over his editing against consensus, as well as caused semi-protection of the article; that this dispute has been going on at least since March, with no other editor supporting the inclusion of this badly sourced trivia until your edit today (although it's been removed by multiple experienced editors with roughly 90,000 edits to their collective credit (not to mention that the admin who most recently semiprotected the page has more than 100,000 on en.wikipedia alone), and you ought to have noticed that two different, contradictory references have been provided in "support" of the claim (certainly problematic in a BLP) -- one of which, classictvquotes, is a copyvio site, gives no sign of being a reliable source, and isn't used as a reference in any other Misplaced Pages articles. You should also have paid attention to the fact that multiple editors had removed the claim as unencyclopedic trivia, so that when you added it back without making prior efforts to gain support for its inclusion, you too were editing/edit warring against consensus. Talk about a lack of collegiality. Your own comments manifest a lack of willingness to WP:AGF about the experienced editors who've been dealing with this disruption for months. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:29, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

The right place to discuss any dispute about the edit is on the article's talk page. I am grateful you're not trying to defend your use of edit summaries and talk pages to accuse other editors of vandalism. --Alistair Stevenson (talk) 21:51, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Look again. Once again, you haven't read all the relevant comments. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I assure you I have read your response carefully. I think at some level my point is made with you. No one could ever defend using edit summaries or talk pages to accuse other editors attempting to make good faith edits of vandalism, because there is simply no defence for it. You're accusing me of not bothering, of edit warring, of not reading. These are exactly the kind of accusations of bad faith that I am suggesting to you have no place on a collective project, they will only destroy it.--Alistair Stevenson (talk) 22:17, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

You have very strange notions of good faith. An editor who repeatedly inserts content into an article that flat-out contradicts the sources he provides is not editing in good faith. An editor like you who violates 3RR in an edit war, then threatens the good faith editor he warred against with groundless blocking, as you did last week at BBC Radio 7, and who insists that he has the right to insert disputed content into articles unless consensus is reached to remove it, has no place in a collective project, either. Get your own behavior in order before maligning those with better understanding of the relevant policies and practices than you show. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:26, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

You used edit summaries and a talk page to make inflammatory and unjustified accusations against another editor , I politely asked you to consider WP:AGF. Anything else is an issue for you--Alistair Stevenson (talk) 23:10, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

You also gave strange ideas about politeness, too. After several months of abusive editing against consensus, and repeated insertion of text that contradicted the cited sources, the assumption of good faith was no longer warranted towards a user who was, as you deliberately ignored editing through multiple account/IPs and blocked for inapropriate editing practices, and your comments also unjustifably malign by implication the other editors involved in contesting the disruptive editing. It's clear that good faith, as it's geneally understood, is a foreign notion to you. Don't post to my talk page again. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 01:10, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Barbi Twins

Hey there.

This is kinda complicated. First off, User:AnneBank is not one of the Barbi Twins nor an official representative for them. Just wanna make that clear.

I've been working with the Twins since November on a fairly regular basis on explaining Misplaced Pages and how it works, as well as how we can properly assure the accuracy of their biography. So here's the sticky part: that edit about Sia being rumored to be gay from E True Hollywood story is one that they want included. They took a part in the production of that documentary, and made a point to have it included.

Now, obviously we can't just include the information as worded, and we're not one to drive rumors. I'm asking, in your opinion, is there a way that you can see to make this inclusive material? I recuse my own opinion on the matter since I'm just serving as the middle-man, so I'd appreciate your opinion so it can be passed along in the explanation of yes or no.

Thanks for your time! Keegan (talk) 00:24, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I find this a bit troubling, at least as stated. If Sia Barbi decides to make a public statement of her sexual preferences, that's appropriate to include. But including an acknowledged rumor simply because the article subject wants it included, but refuses to verify it, isn't appropriate, whatever her reasons may be. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:02, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Chris Noth

I see you have been given a hard time by a contributor to Chris Noth. You have my every support. I had a particularly nasty and unprovoked run in with this individual a couple of months ago. He/she is a raw beginner who insults mature, regular editors and mainly resorts to righteous indignation in defence of his/her behaviour. I may be completely wrong, and I hope I am, but I also had a suspicion at the time that there may be some socketry involved--Kudpung (talk) 06:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I know you're an admin but two other admins are watching my edits - in use template up

The In use template is up. Please respect it. Please revert yourself. ----moreno oso (talk) 14:54, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm not an admin. Note that you've had this template up for significantly longer than the associated page indicates it should be up for (180 minutes), and that you've added spurious promotional content to the article, violating BLP. WP:BLP is a fundamental policy, and certainly overrides the quite unofficial "courtesy" guideline associated with the template. I'd also note that you showed no courtesy to me yesterday by reverting, without explanation or apology, an entirely appropriate, indeed required, edit I'd made to the same article, rather than revising your own planned edit after an edit conflict. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 15:03, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

It has been up for awhile and is allowed. You have violated the template. You are now approaching WP:3RR with your reverts----moreno oso (talk) 15:06, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

One more time. The comments accompanying the template are neither policy nor guideline, and are entirely unofficial. WP:BLP is policy. If the comments have any force, they show that you're abusing the template by keeping it up for longer than the 180 minute maximum. And your recent edit history also indicates you're abusing the template since you're not steadily working on the article, but multitasking, watching the World Cup, posting on other subjects, etc. And removing obvious BLP violations is an exception to 3RR, and if you think anybody's going to treat removing an internal mislink as contributing to a 3RR violation you're badly mistaken. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 15:15, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

BS and you know it. I am not abusing the template. There is no BLP violation as everything is cited and not negative. You need to read the talkpage about Misplaced Pages not being censored. ----moreno oso (talk) 15:20, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

You badly need a refresher in both WP:CIVIL and WP:BLP, especially since the latter quite plainly states that its removal requirements apply "whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable." Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 15:26, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Not fuelling, but determined not to allow WP:GAME to become a sanctuary. Kudpung (talk) 01:29, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

john gray

stop being such a cockass

gray 4 mayor —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davebugeja (talk • contribs) 16:01, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Re: Shyla Foxx

No problem. I figured that there was something obvious that I was missing and that removing it again would be the safe option plus would trigger someone to sort of tie it all together. In the end, there's nothing to tie together. Dismas| 21:17, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

"pony theory"

While it's an amusing "theory" and it's nice to see even a cite for it, it's perhaps in bad taste to bring it up in AfDs as an accusation against those making apparently poor keep arguments, I think. For that matter, the tenor of your other comments in at least Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/European Gay Porn Awards (where I tend to agree with you and the nom that notability is not established, etc.) and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jana Jordan is questionable. Just a thought, no reply needed. Шизомби (Sz) (talk) 03:28, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Melissa-Ashley

Could you possibly give your opinion on this debate Talk:Melissa-Ashley#Un-encyclopedic_Content ? Thanks... Valrith (talk) 03:44, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

/* Joe Francis Misplaced Pages Page */

Hello,

Can you please provide reason as to why you undid the changes on Joe Francis' wikipedia page when reliable sources were provided? Thank you AEB1275 (talk) 22:25, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Read the edit summaries. Just because you can source it doesn't justify spamming entire product lines in tangentially related articles. Aren't you the newest incarnation of the corporate role account User:Mantrafilms? Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:38, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Linda Reade, Rubashkin

I personally feel that the Rubashkin trial is an important part of Reade's story. How would you suggest the story should be told? Im surprised you removed the whole section. Lower458 (talk) 22:36, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

As per my comments at WP:BLPN. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:40, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Saw now Lower458 (talk) 22:42, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Let me run this by you, would this be acceptable according to BLP rules?

On June 21 2010, Judge Reade sentenced former Agriprocessors CEO Sholom Rubashkin, a first time offender, to 27 years in prison for fraud. The "stiff" sentence was unusual in recent history of financial crimes, and was more than the sentence prosecutors had requested, 25 years. prompting complaints from the Orthodox Jewish community that Mr. Rubashkin was singled out and treated unfairly by Judge Reade.

Lower458 (talk) 23:07, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't think so. It's one-sided (not all the responses to the sentence have been critical, although the critical responses have been played up in the sources you cite); "some Orthodox Jewish leaders" aren't "the Orthodox Jewish community". The "first offender" comment is at best disingenuous, given that he was convicted of 86 counts of fraud committed over an extended period of time -- some would quite reasonably describe him as a "career criminal" in that regard. And I don't see any support in your sources for the "singled out" statement -- the information provided is just as consistent with Reade being a judge who hands down harsh sentences. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:32, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

See what I updated at Reade page. I think it is pretty good and within rules.

Removed references to his age and first-time-offender.

BTW, it is a fact that the OJ community was very outspoken re the sentence, but it was not covered in any credible media as of yet. Maybe in the future.

Thanks for coaching me here.

00:37, 30 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lower458 (talk • contribs)

The revision still fails BLP rather seriously; it's conspicuously one-sided. BLP and NPOV require that all sides of a disputed matter be presented reasonably; this edit omits all praise of Reade's action (even though some was provided in news sources), nor does it present any of Reade's justification for the sentence, for which both primary and secondary sourcing should be easy enough to find. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:43, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Alright. Maybe what Im trying to say, and I am, does not belong in an encyclopedia. Lower458 (talk) 00:47, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Chris Noth

Do an SPI on 70.19.231.165 ? --Kudpung (talk) 13:38, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Don't need an SPI, this is plainly WP:DUCK as well as block evasion. But not worth wasting admin time unless/until he shows up again.Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 23:06, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Sovietia/Archive --Kudpung (talk) 22:18, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

talkback

The Seven Minutes (film)

I'm leaving an identical message for all the parties involved in the edit war (Dekkapai, MichaelQSchmidt, Hullaballoo Wolfowitz) on this article advising them to take their disagreements on the notability of the nudity in the film to the talk page. All parties involved appear to have valid points so I'm not singling anyone out for possible WP:3RR violations. In the interim, I'm locking the page as is for 72 hours - hopefully by the time the block expires we might have some form of consensus. Remember, the question (as I understand it) is whether the nudity in this film was notable in and of itself. If it is not, then might the information about it be useful elsewhere - say in Nudity in film as expanded details about the 70s. Tabercil (talk) 12:23, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Please review

...this diff. Schmidt, 21:17, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

user:Susieq3140 and award insertions

Hello, I noticed you reverted a couple of this user additions to sport articles about these awards. Like you, I feel this is spammy and believe if the user can't find third party coverage of this, then it should be removed. To be honest, the fact that this user's body of work is adding this to countless articles is most bothersome to me (just look at the user contributions). I went ahead and spent some time doing mass reversions, but met some resistance from other users (see , ).

I'm wondering what your thoughts are. Should this be taken to wp:ani? It seems like a rather gray-ish area. I know sports pretty okay and have never heard of this organization or these awards, and all signs show that it's a borderline notable organization

Thank you for your time. If you have no desire to get involved, I understand. --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 21:55, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Never mind - an admin has gone in and reverted all the user's edits. Thanks. --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 18:27, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Having investigated this further, all of Special:Contributions/Susieq3140's edits appear to be for the sole purpose of promoting these "awards" form the US Sports Academy, using a "third party" reference to a domain owned by the same place. --Ckatz_spy 22:37, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. That's what I thought was going on, but with other editors disputing Omarcheeseboro's reverts, I was waiting for other folks to get involved in the discusions. I think the school's apparently unauthorized use of various deceased public figures' names for the awards is a bit sleazy, too. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:48, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

I also tracked down an AfD from a few years back (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/United States Sports Academy) that led to the deletion of a number of articles about the awards themselves; the conclusion was that the awards were not notable. (The nom asserted that "there was no evidence that the 'recipients' were aware of or accepted the 'honorary degrees'".) --Ckatz_spy 02:12, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Archive

As a matter of extreme urgency, will you please archive at least 90% of this page. I can recommend the use of the MiszaBot. OK, disk space is cheap these days but there is still no need for every message to gobble up 300k bytes on Misplaced Pages's servers. More importantly, please spare a thought for users with slow connections or creaky old browsers - why should they have to deal with such a ridiculously large page? — ] (talk · contribs) 13:50, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Consensus discussion on source reliability/notability

Hi. I've started a discussion here. Would you please participate? Thanks.

David Cameron

Hi, I don't know if you've noticed but, along with at least four other editors, I've been trying to prevent a fellow anonymous user (92.28.129.178 (talk · contribs) 89.240.160.15 (talk · contribs)) blanking, and arguably vandalising, two pages. Could you perhaps look again at this reversion? --188.221.105.68 (talk) 23:56, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

My impression is that all those ancestry subsections do nothing but make it more difficult for readers of the article to get to useful information, and that a large picture of somebody who died a few centuries before any of the events discussed in the article makes a bad situation even worse. But then, I'm of Irish descent and think all the articles about so-called British "nobles" belong in the category "Useless products of inbreeding." Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:24, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, these sections are kind of a convention in the tertiary source material that Misplaced Pages follows but I agree the portrait of William IV was rather unnecessary. Also, if you check the history I'd removed a lot of the rubbish. Nevertheless, your reversion restored this vandal's version, complete with messy links (plus I do not, ever, disrupt Misplaced Pages to make a point). --188.221.105.68 (talk) 00:32, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

July 2010 uw-unsourced3

Please do not add unsourced or original content. Doing so violates Misplaced Pages's verifiability policy. If you continue to do so, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Dugnad (talk) 09:36, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Dignity

Could you please explain why you think what was removed in your edits to Dignity (album) was original research? The background section discusses events that happened and the composition section discusses songs that reference them. That is far from OR. –Chase (talk) 18:10, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Kascha listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Kascha. Since you had some involvement with the Kascha redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Bridgeplayer (talk) 15:05, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Virginia Gentlemen AfD

Just wanted to let you know that the AfD discussion on Virginia Gentlemen is underway at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Virginia Gentlemen; could use your input. -Tjarrett (talk) 17:00, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

LIGHTS (musician)

I would like to understand your reasoning in reverting my edit. LIGHTS full legal name is hardly unconstructive. Pick just about any celebrity on Misplaced Pages and you will see their full legal name. This is important due to confusion that LIGHTS is a stage name. Her full name has three unique sources in the article. Nblsavage (talk) 22:42, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

The form you insist on is not her legal name, according to sources cited in the article. So don't put it back. You're edit warring to the edge of vandalism. There's some conflict about exactly what her legal name is, so it certainly be asserted without a definitive source. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:54, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

1. ^ Kevin Young. "Looking Into Lights". Canadian Musician Magazine Volume 63 Issue 3. http://www.canadianmusician.com/online-mar-apr-10/index.php. - "

"though she's changed her name to Lights Valerie Poxleitner"

Barring legal documents, what type of source is sufficient? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nblsavage (talk • contribs) 00:12, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Warren G. Harding

Thanks for undoing the revision. I am not sure why the user was so savage in the edit summary. Cmguy777 (talk) 04:13, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Rocco Siffredi genital herpes

What is the BLP rule preventing the Rocco Siffredi article from disclosing that Siffredi has genital herpes? He admits this fact publicly, at it is relevant to his career as a sexual performer. Thanks! --Stybn (talk) 08:54, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Claims of this nature must be reliably sourced. Per Jimbo Wales, the Luke Ford site does not meet BLP standards for reliable sources. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:04, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Since Luke Ford is considered a reliable source in the porn industry, it seems noteworthy in and of itself that Ford has reported this information. Can the article mention the existence of the report? --Stybn (talk) 08:47, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

DrV

In the AfD for Stephano_Barberis your !vote is being discussed at DrV . Any clarification from you would be helpful. Hobit (talk) 17:43, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

incivility?

I think if you revisit your comments in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Raven Riley (2nd nomination) you might find your tone problematic and unproductive. Incidentally, I missed seeing that AfD while it was open and would have been inclined to add a comment in favor of deletion had I caught it. No reply needed. Шизомби (Sz) (talk) 16:04, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

July 2010

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 03:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi HW. Please accept my sincere apology regarding the notice I previously posted in this space (which you have already removed). I was operating under the mistaken belief that you had added the text in question, rather than removed it. Clearly your edit was correct, and I should have been more careful. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 18:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

AskMen.com

Hi. I noticed this message an IP editor left on another IP's talk page, and tracked it back to the edit he was referring to. Is there consensus that Ask.com is not reliable under WP:RS? I only found one brief discussion at the Reliable Sources noticeboard, and there was some disagreement on it. What's your view? Nightscream (talk) 01:40, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't know that there's any consensus either way, but the argument made in the linked discussion, against its reliability, is pretty sound. Certainly that Barbara Bush quote is quite dubious, particularly since there are no legit hits for it turning up via GNews. I wouldn't use Askmen.com as a refeence. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:33, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Trying to add information to the 'lingerie line' section of Caprice's page as it is currently very short and does not reflect the last four and a half years that she has spent building her business. All info is accurate and verifiable. It is not intended to have a promotional tone, merely to reflect the growth of the business over several years and supply up-to-date information to the public about Caprice's shift from model to entrepreneur and the growth of her business. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laura154154 (talk • contribs) 14:06, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Guide Protection

I was thinking it would be a good idea to add a protection policy to Saturday Night Live, i have noticed an increase of vandalism on the front page of the show. Possibly semi-protection would be best, what are your thoughts?

Water78 (talk) 18:12, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Chelsea

I had the same thought about Ed Cox and David Eisenhower's articles - I was just going over there to see how they're worded when I saw your comment on the noticeboard! Well said. Tvoz/talk 23:10, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Ivanhoe Bus Company

Curious as to what claim of significance you noticed... As an aside, kinda ironic, based on comments here, that you're removing CSD tags. Lionel (talk) 05:07, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Sharron Angle

I saw this. It appears that the subject "scrubbed" her website. I wil try to find a cite. Bearian (talk) 20:13, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Cassandra Clare confusion

I'm really confused as to why you've gone after my edits so strongly. Cassandra Clare is absolutely notable for her Fan Fiction, it's how she became a published author in the first place. As far as I know this has never been disputed before. I've reverted the majority of your changes and added a boatload of published sources. Is there anything else you'd like to discuss about this page? I'd be happy to clarify anything else amiss. Infoaddict1 (talk) 20:18, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Since you've added the second BLP tag, without clarifying why you think my Lexus Nexus sources are "phony", I've put in a request for editor assistance & mediation. If you have the time to tell me why you believe specific sources are suspect, I would appreciate it. Most all the pages I've sourced are publicly available, and I can provide copies of each article if you don't have access. Thanks! Infoaddict1 (talk) 00:14, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I've already responded to specific claims on your talk page. If you think a twitter page which doesn't have any relevant content is a reliable source asserting a romantic relationship between two notable authors, or that livejournal posts are appropriate sources for unfavorable blp content, you are seriously mistaken. You're a single purpose account with an unhealthy focus on a particular person, and you acknowledged not very long ago on the BLP noticeboard that the sourcing you have doesn't meet Misplaced Pages standards. You should have stopped then. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 01:05, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I used a twitter account because someone before me had already used a twitter account to verify information about Clare; since the relationship isn't a secret (and he isn't a well known author), and Clare has noted her character is based on her boyfriend (which I cited from her official journal) I thought it was okay. If this is wrong, you are absolutely within your wiki rights to remove that bit of information. However a reversion of multiple sources, including io9, The Age, Mail on Sunday, The Telegraph and the 2-3 scholarly journals is not an appropriate response. As I've stated before, I am a NEW EDITOR, and I don't have a lot of experience with BLP. I have constantly asked for help on this, but from you have received only attacks, which I don't understand the purpose of. If you would join us on the CC discussion page to point out your qualms with specific citations, I'd really appreciate it. I'm also not clear on why you regard CC's fan fiction past as being "embarrassing" and in need of removal on vandalism charges. CC found her fame via her well-known fan fiction; Diablo Cody found her fame via her stripping blog, but that stripping blog is now years old. Does that mean it is irrelevant to her Misplaced Pages page? Surely not. I'd like to hear your side of it though. Infoaddict1 (talk) 06:53, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Cassandra Clare

Hello, there is currently a content dispute at this article and I'd like to see if an agreement can be reached. Since you are a recent contributor to the article, I'd like to ask if you wish to give your opinion on the matter. I'm not involved in the article myself, I'm only interested in trying to bring everyone to a discussion. If you're interested, please comment at this thread, thank you. -- Atama頭 06:13, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion contested: Veronika Zemanová

Hello Hullaballoo Wolfowitz. I am just letting you know that I contested the speedy deletion of Veronika Zemanová, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: The article makes a credible assertion of importance or significance, sufficient to pass A7. Thank you. Salvio 13:12, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Cocteau Twins image

Hi, I'm willing to be corrected and to see the image deleted if policy requires, but you removed a non-free image from Cocteau Twins with the edit summary "non-free image in BLP infobox". An article about a band is not a BLP. I restored the image but am bringing it to your attention in good faith in case the relevant policy is wider than stated in your edit summary. - Fayenatic (talk) 09:01, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Jeanine Mason image

I'm curious to know precisely how the image I uploaded for Jeanine Mason fails fair use. Although I acknowledge you seem to be quite a stickler-- when it suits you, at least, excuse me for reading most of your talk page --you seem to have very nonchalantly removed this picture, despite it being from a promotional package and therefore clearly valid under fair use. Please explicate. (Also, congratulations: editing your talk page slows my computer to almost hilarious speeds.) Andrew Hsieh, Random Wikian 07:48, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Passing fair use isn't enough; it has to pass WP:NFCC, which it clearly doesn't. This is an image of a living person, and presumed replaceable. The fact that it shows a dancer dancing is not enough to meet NFCC; otherwise nonfree images of actors acting, of golfers golfing, of singers singing, of porn performers, er, performing would also be NFCC exceptions, and they're obviously not. The primary purpose of an infobox image is identification, for which nonfree images are almost never necessary; I don't think a nonfree BLP infobox image has ever survived an NFCC challenge. And, as in all NFCC matters, the WP:BURDEN rests with the editor seeking to use nonfree content. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:58, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmmmm

What did you do to piss this temporary editor off? Drmies (talk) 23:38, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Judging by the sense of "humor" shown by the username, he's probably the Howard Stern fan-troll I ticked off last year. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 23:42, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

William Asher - explanation request

Your deletion explanation was a bit too brief, IMO: "patently invalid rationale provided." The image did have a rationale stated, although short, yet to the point. However, it does not deserve a rapid, almost bot-like, re-deletion without some due consideration.

Part of the rationale for the image was given:

"Historical value as this photo appears to be a candid during the peak of his career."

The man is 89 years old and supposedly not in good health. Therefore, it seems reasonable, if not logical, that it meets one of the "acceptable uses" of a non-free image for a BLP such as #8, since both people were were discussed within the article, mostly during their career, it supports an acceptable usage with obvious relevance:

"Images with iconic status or historical importance: As subjects of commentary."

Since you're apparently relying on the reason why it might be "unacceptable," as in #1, I was using the clearly stated "exception" to that rule:

"However, for . . . retired individuals whose notability rests in large part on their earlier visual appearance, a new picture may not serve the same purpose as an image taken during their career, in which case the use would be acceptable."

So I agree to some minds the decision here could be based on a coin toss, as the image could be justified as acceptable or not. But I personally don't think the BLP, especially an important one in the entertainment industry, warrants a brusque summary only. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 19:06, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

1. 8 clearly doesn't apply here, because the commentary must relate to the specific image, not to its subjects generally. #1 clearly doesn't apply here, because the article subject's notability doesn't rest in any part on his physical appearance. There's no indication that this is a publicity photo; it's an unidentified photo found in an unofficial and may well be owned by a commercial publication. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:49, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

OK, that helps. Thanks. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 21:12, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Jenny Slate

I've just expanded and referenced this article so this is just a historical note, but you removed an addition about her hosting a comedy night, stating "unreferenced addition to blp". Sure, it was unsourced, but it wasn't likely to be controversial and a look in Google News for "Jenny Slate" AND "Big Terrific" would have very quickly shown that it was correct. Reverting all unsourced additions keeps articles "pure", but it also keep them from developing, which some quick fact checking would avoid. Fences&Windows 00:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Re: Hassan Barzideh

As an established user I definitely trust your knowledge and good faith, but there's still a bit of a problem here. Even if the subject is notable, the article, as it was written, definitely did not indicate that it is, or why. Furthermore, as an unsourced BLP, it would be subject to WP:PRODBLP even if undeleted. I'm not seeing any versions of the article in its history that address either of these problems. Lastly, the article contained so little information that if it were recreated in a manner that addressed these issues, it would be virtually just as easy to remake from scratch as from the scant information this article contained. I hope this makes sense to you. If I'm missing something, let me know. - Vianello (Talk) 22:14, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

The above stands for pretty much every one of the string of deleted articles, so far as I can tell. - Vianello (Talk) 22:16, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but this doesn't make sense to me. I doubt that any of the articles would be subject to PRODBLP; they appear to all belong-standing articles, predating the current, stricter referencing requirements, and not subject to the PRODBLP process. Even given the article's deficiencies, it still had an assertion of significance, a lower standard than notability, which is all that's required to avoid summary deletion. As the ANI discussion indicates, there's good reason to believe that one of the nominator's motives was to harass an editor who was working to improve inadequate articles/biographies in the category the nominator targeted. I don't see any reason these apparent out-of-process deletions shouldn't be undone. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

You may very well be right about the questionable motivation, and you are definitely right about PRODBLP - I completely had forgotten about the date/timing issue. However, I'm not sure I see where in the articles themselves notability is/was asserted. - Vianello (Talk) 22:56, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Notability doesn't have to be asserted to survive A7, only the lower standard of significance. A7 deletion should not be applied to "any article that makes any credible claim of significance or importance even if the claim is not supported by a reliable source," which "is distinct from verifiability and reliability of sources, and is a lower standard than notability." (from WP:SPEEDY). Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 23:05, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Understandable. Could you give me an example of how these illustrated significance, though? So far as I could see, every last article was limited entirely to "This person is an (occupation).", with the occasional addition of where they were educated. I don't see (and this may be a failure on my part) how significance of any kind was asserted. - Vianello (Talk) 23:12, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

In the cases I've looked at (both deleted and rejected noms), the occupation was one which signalled potential notability and therefore asserted significance. Hassan Barzideh is a film director, an occupation which is often notable, and for which categories are recognized. Fouzieh Majd is a composer who created work for a national television network. Babak Esmaeili is a published author and journalist. Asad Sabetpour was a provincial governor and mayor of a modertately large city. I'm not sure how many more there were deleted, but these are fairly illustrative, and I think it would be better to roll back the entire set. My impression is that the genuinely not-notable subjects had already been removed from the targeted category through the work of users reviewing the area. I also found it curious that so many of the targeted cultural figures were Sufi-related, and so few of the government-related figures were supporters of the post-revolutionary regime. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:26, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

You've made a fair point. I've restored all the articles you listed except Hassan Barzideh, which does not indicate any sort of significance. Being "a film director" is something any number of people can lay claim to. Being a remotely noteworthy one is an entirely different issue. The others, by virtue of their careers or other statuses/accomplishments, do appear to assert some form of significance, though, so I've restored them as per your request. - Vianello (Talk) 02:02, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Dave G. Dotterer

G12, yet. Have you seen the deletion record? I was gonna PROD based on the assertion of significance-- national level board. You got in ahead of me with a G12. Will see what happens. I do wish the campaign mangers would read up on WP:politician before putting themselves through the aggravation. cheers, Dlohcierekim 01:07, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Celebs with criminal records

Point taken but it did sound strange the way it was phrased. Dismas| 23:32, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Bob Gill pic

I explained the fair use rationale to Betacommandbot already. The man's career ended in 1974. There is a limit to how far one can go to attempt to illustrate how a man appeared during the relevant period of his life, especially when that period is over 35 years gone. Summary removal of the image without even trying to contact the editors of the page does not help fix the issue. DarkAudit (talk) 05:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Hustler magazine link at Lisa Coleman

See Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Hustler magazine as a source please. Tabercil (talk) 18:17, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry

This edit by an anonymous account done directly after your edits in support of them appears to be the most transparently clear of sockpupperty that has ever existed.

I'm posting this here because I want to hear an explanation from you about this before I take it to Misplaced Pages administration. You deserve a fair hearing. Sugar-Baby-Love (talk) 02:36, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Feel free. Any cursory glance at either my talk page, my contributions or both will easily reveal that I'm a long-time IP editor that eshews the use of an account. Just because two or more editors undo your edits (and point you to the proper policy page) doesn't mean they are related. 69.181.249.92 (talk) 02:41, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I ask Hullaballoo Wolfowitz a question, and then you respond instead of him or her.

I politely ask you to sit back and think to yourself, "How does this look." If I am to be persuaded that you two are not sockpuppets, the fact that you both act as one and respond as one on talk pages is not going to persuade me. Sugar-Baby-Love (talk) 02:44, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

You have a strange definition of "polite," since it includes gratuitous and groundless accusations of misbehavior. When multiple editors reverse your actions citing rather clear policy, it indicates that you are in error, not that you are the target of misconduct. And you have no excuse for defying WP:3RR. As for your threat to "take it to Misplaced Pages administration": Bring. It. On. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:55, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. WP:SPI is the page you want. 69.181.249.92 (talk) 02:59, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I didn't break 3RR, you did.

And I have not been reverted by "multiple editors". I've been reverted by you and you alone (in the case of the Bloomberg article), and you coupled with a suspicious anon (in the French pop artist's case).

And I didn't threaten anything, I asked politely for you to explain this situation. You are either unable or unwilling to do so.

If you were not a sockpuppet, then I would have expected you to calmy and rationally post here referring to your past edits. But the exact opposite happened.. I see that anon is commenting at nearly the same time as you, and also making the same arguments as you like clockwork-- when I asked you something and said nothing to the anon. Yet anon spoke for you?! Anon has posted on your talk page for you?! You have to understand that this is giving me the exact same impression as writing "I am using sockpuppets" in all caps.

Besides, your tone is very, very unhelpful to what are content disputes that we could resolve if you would behave more responsibly. Sugar-Baby-Love (talk) 03:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Breaking the 3RR

I could report you for this, but I won't if you would- for one- stop to actually make a valid argument for your edits on a talk page.

Please see Misplaced Pages:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Mayoralty_of_Michael_Bloomberg. Sugar-Baby-Love (talk) 02:49, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

There is nothing to discuss. The main text was cut-and-pasted from a news site. That is a copyright violation. Removing copyright violations is exempt from 3RR, as is removal of BLP violations. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 03:10, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Restored.

It'll probably still have to go through AFD, but I suppose it was a rather unclear speedy deletion. Sorry about that, · Andonic 08:08, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

IMDB again

I see that you've reverted the use of the {{BLP IMDB-only refimprove}}/{{BLP IMDB refimprove}} tags again (I see above that you've had this discussion twice before). My reasoning for using these tags is that people who aren't fully up to speed might see the BLP unreferenced tag as being incorrect - "It has an IMDB link, what more do you want". The specific IMDB clearly spells out that it isn't enough to just have an IMDB link, and as such I see it as being much more useful. It also puts the article into the following cats: Category:All articles lacking sources, Category:Articles lacking reliable references from August 2010, Category:Articles sourced by IMDB from August 2010 and Category:BLP articles lacking sources from August 2010, compared to the unref tag, which only puts the article into Category:All unreferenced BLPs and Category:Unreferenced BLPs from August 2010. I think it's a much more useful tag, so please don't revert any more. It also would have been courteous to notify me of what you were doing. The-Pope (talk) 17:08, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Come on, that is just plain rude. I start a discussion here, state my reasoning, give you 12 hours (during which you are contributing prolifically) to consider a response, get nothing, so I undo your changes, assuming that you've read and accepted my reasons. Then you go and revert them back without any comments or discussion. Ever heard of WP:BRD? I'll quote a line from it: If one skips the Discussion part, then restoring your edit is a hostile act of edit warring and is not only uncollaborative, but can get you into trouble. The IMDB tags survived a TfD, so as far as I'm concerned they are a valid tag to use and like I stated above, I think that they are better tags in that they both give any reader a better understanding on why we don't only accept IDMB tags, and places the article in more specialised cats. The-Pope (talk) 05:42, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Offhand, I'm agreeing with the chap - the BLP IMDB tag is more accurate and more useful than the plain BLP one. As such I've reverted your most recent edit to the page. Tabercil (talk) 15:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

and I'm still waiting for some dicussion to take place. Please reply to me either here or at my talk page, not at a third party's page.

(copied from the third party talk, in reply to your message there) One could argue that keeping the BLPunrefered tag over other more suitable tags is a technique used by some to artificially inflate the "unreferenced BLP" problem and TOTALLY IGNORE that there are lots of other BLP cleanup tags that also should be addressed. This tag simply takes it outof one cleanup cat and puts it into 4 other cleanup cats. Still there, still trackable, still marked as being unacceptable and a problem. The only reason that we have a "target number" is because of a few editors who ignored the rules and made it a big deal earlier this year and threatened mass-deletion of these articles. The only reason that no one is working through the other lists is because the unrefed BLPs got all the attention. In the past 6 months we've seen two useful generic tools, the Wolterbot Cleanup list and the Alertbot stop working, but I've helped get the DASHbot list to automatically list UBLPs by project. Once the heat drops out of this issue, there is no reason why that same system can't be used for other cleanup tags. I'd agree with HW if I was ADDING IMDB links and then changing the tag, but I'm only doing it to ones that already have the tag - as I said on HW's overly long talk page - to the everyday editor IMDB is a ref and they can't tell the difference between an Ext link and a ref. The IMDB tag tells them it isn't enough. The UBLP tag doesn't.The-Pope (talk) 22:56, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Unnecessary removal of images

Please stop removing images as you did in the articles Joseph Wapner & Jorge Ortiz de Pinedo. First of all, those images you removed are free images & have fair use rationales as approved by WP:Fair use. Also, we do not remove such images except in the case of vandalism, or unless there is already a free image of that person on Misplaced Pages--That is certainly a no-no. It is very important that you review WP:Fair use before you remove any other images. You may also discuss this change in the article's Discussion Page & wait for a concensus before you make the edit.

-MegastarLV (talk) 5:54 August 2010

Absolutely not. Those are obviously not free images; in fact, you identified them as nonfree when you uploaded them, and the use rationales you provided fail most of the relevant 10-point test -- as you were warned barely two weeks ago by administrator Theleftorium. Under WP:NFCC, challenged images are to be removed from articles pending discussion; the burden of proof rests with those seeking to the users, if any, objecting to removal: It is the duty of users seeking to include or retain content to provide a valid rationale; those seeking to remove or delete it are not required to show that one cannot be created. You are at risk of being blocked for this pattern of misbehavior. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:45, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Theleftorium was referring to three images that I uploaded on one article 2 weeks ago--that was then. I also notice the numerous complaints people have posted on your talk page, as well as various users questioning you regarding this same issue (this gives me an obvious hint). And if you think the rationale I provided is invalid, how would a valid one look like to you?

-MegastarLV (talk) 7:04 August 2010

1. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/us/22iowa.html?ref=agriprocessors_inc
2. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/us/22iowa.html
3. http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/06/22/sholom-rubashkin-gets-stiff-sentence/
4. http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/article_9b05e5f4-7d49-11df-8d88-001cc4c03286.html
5. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/us/22iowa.html?ref=agriprocessors_inc