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I'll run through the short version after a conversation @Sandstein's. I would like to request that all personal user space pages of "evidence" editors gathered in preparing for the EEML litigation or related to prior Baltic/EE conflicts be deleted. More than 8 months after the EEML topic bans went into effect, a number of editors (regardless of "sides") have returned to contributing; nothing good will come of past collections of recriminations lying about. Is there a formal mechanism for submitting such a request? Please let me know if I should submit via Email. Best, PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 15:25, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

I will have to voice my strongest objection to this, as there are still outstanding issues related to the EEML case. I have made Vecrumba a suggestion on how he should proceed, if he really wants to bury the past, see User talk:Sandstein#Personal EEML and related evidence pages. This unilateral proposal is not taking the issue anywhere, I see it only as preparation for a new battleground. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 20:58, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't see anything that remains unresolved. Outsiders can allege and think whatever they want regarding content editing in the Baltic and Eastern European topic space, any interaction I have had with Petri Krohn and any content I have written or advocated for on-Wiki has been based solely on a fair an accurate representation of sources and would have been exactly the same whether or not there had been off-Wiki communication. Petri will be free to debate me based on sources when my topic ban expires. Until then, this sort of escalating accusation of bad faith—that I'm already planning for my war campaign when my topic ban expires in 129 days, 20 hours, 21 minutes and 24 seconds , and which threatens re-litigating everything WP:EEML—is unseemly at best. PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 21:16, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

We just recently had all of the user evidence pages deleted after a case and I believe there was some talk of this being standard from now on. My best suggestion would be to ask for an amendment to the case requiring all of these pages be deleted (without adding in the extra baggage Petri suggested that doesn't even seem related).

Petri, your houding of certain editors is becoming apparent and may end in further sanctions if your behavior doesn't change post haste. Shell 22:09, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Shell, I was deeply offended by your comment and your accusation that I have been “hounding” someone. I decided to cool down for an hour.

Now, after four hours, I am not only offended, but also – I believe justifiably – angry.

I ask that you issue a formal written apology for your comments. If you are unwilling to do that, I ask that you compile a list of the cases where you believe I have hounded someone – I suppose here you mean participants in the EEML arbitration case. I do not think you even need to do the work your self as the people you believe have been hounded would most likely volunteer their labor.

As is well known, I have followed a voluntary topic ban on the disputes in the EE topic area and a related interaction ban on users who would later end up as the accused side in the EEML case – starting from the day in July 2007 when my request at WP:AN to have a community ban on user Digwuren (talk · contribs) was first rejected. (Note, that this happened before Digwuren contributed his first original contribution.) It is my firm belief – supported by massive amounts of evidence – that the interest shown by former participants in the mailing list to my user account is not related to my edits, but to the activities of a real life person who happens to share my username.

I do admit to the following:

• I have been following the edits of User Russavia, as he has been under harassment and may not always act in the best possible manner himself. I have also supported him in some cases where he has been attacked or accused.
• I have commented on a very limited number of user talk pages, where accusations have been made against me – either directly or trough innuendo – by participants in the EEML arbitration case. In most cases this has happened long after the fact, as I do not follow the edits or talk pages of the users involved (I have now added some pages to my watchlist.)
• I have done a potentially very controversial non-admin closure of a WP:AE case involving Russavia. The action was taken in order to WP:DENY a forum for what was escalating into a major BATTLEground of EEML legacy. I did this under the presumption, that if anyone even hinted that my BOLD action was not absolutely the correct thing to do, I would revert the action and apologize to those affected. So far, no one has given me such a hint. (I believe Vercumba was one of the people whose butt I saved.)

I do not see any of these actions as hounding. Neither should you.

Yours, -- Petri Krohn (talk) 02:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

I am frankly gobsmacked by this escalating ugliness.

1. My interest in your edits is your edits. Of course, I can't pursue Baltic/EE topics at the moment, although I must make the next observation.
2. You have not followed a voluntary topic ban as you indicate, as since your most recent return you've already edited the aftermath of WWII to describe the Soviet role in Eastern Europe as liberation and/or restoration by the Soviets.
3. I have no interest in your actions regarding Russavia—we are mutually happily prohibited from seeking out conflict with one another. I have no idea what "butt saving" you refer to. I commented to Igny; I left.

Perhaps you mistake me for someone more interested in conflict than in reputable content? PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 03:44, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Vecrumba, you absolutely may not try to link a Misplaced Pages editor to anything in real life or on another website unless they have brought the information here themselves first. If you have concerns about an editor or a conflict of interest where you would need to disclose such links, you are required to keep that information off site and handle it via email to ArbCom; anything else is WP:OUTING and will result in a block. Shell 05:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Petri has confirmed the same on-Wiki. There is no "outing", this is merely an attempt to slander me and make me out to be a trouble maker attacking Petri for no good reason other than mistaking Wiki Petri Krohn for real-life Petri Krohn. I will send you by Wiki mail. In the mean time, I feel as if I'm being threatened with blocks (my perception, and quite upsetting as I came here for advice on how to move on and have gotten attacked by Petri for it) for violations I have not committed. Please keep your friendly advice friendly. Keep in mind also what this conversation was originally about and where it has gone since Petri inappropriately inserted himself to accuse me of nefarious behavior. PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 15:05, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

My apologies, I assumed since Petri made claims that you were outing him that he had not disclosed his identity on-wiki. Since he's done so, repeatedly and even recently , then your link was not outing.

Petri, this kind of underhanded behavior is exactly what I'm trying to warn you away from. You cannot openly discuss your identity and then try to sanction other editors when they do the same. Please re-read WP:OUTING and ask if you have any further confusion. Shell 06:21, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

FYI, Petri has intentionally updated a Wikilink in his prior post, which you reference, to now point to a non-existent biography article. This latest inaccurate implication of two Petris, created 3 hours after your response above—in response to yours, is disingenuous at best. Yours was not the apology necessary, still, much appreciated; you only acted on evidence provided. PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 14:23, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Please also note the obfuscating edit summary invoking WP:VERIFIABILITY, which purports that Petri's original Wiki-link was "wrong". PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 14:32, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Letting you know

Hello, Shell. Since you've voted in favour of two remedies concerning ChrisO, I wanted to let you know that I've brought up an issue with a clause in those remedies here. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 14:07, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I think other Arbs have covered it, but I felt the reason the clause was added was because even though ChrisO is taking time off, it's not time that he intends to edit Misplaced Pages. If he decided to come back, we would have no way of knowing whether or not the problems would begin again. If, for example, he decides to edit on another Wikimedia Project, shows the problem is resolved and then later wishes to return here, we would take that into consideration and amend the findings as appropriate. Shell 03:42, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification; however, I must very strongly object to this. Someone's decision to leave Misplaced Pages should never be held again that person and cause longer sanctions. Risker puts it better than I do in the section I linked above.

Also, I strongly suggest you have a close look at that section because it appears to me that you and Coren, who have both voted in favour of this remedy, are interpreting it differently. (It's possible that I'm misreading Coren, but I don't think so, as Lar and I seem to agree in our reading of him.) Needless to say, any differences in arbs' interpretations of remedies ought to be resolved now rather than at Requests for Clarification later. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 14:05, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

As I said, there's certainly ways that editors can show that any issues have been resolved even if they aren't editing here, however since this is intended to prevent further problems I feel we'd be lax if we assumed that the issues just stopped on their own with no evidence to support that idea. Bans aren't meant to punish people by keeping them out of something, they're used when we recognize that editors are having difficulty working within the rules in a particular topic area - we often review bans and change bans by amendment when editors show they've worked out whatever the problem was.

Arbs do disagree on how to handle things from time to time and I'm sure there will be further discussion before the final decision is posted. I think Coren mentioned that he realizes we may be reading it differently and I have seen his comments there as well - we try to make all the wording make sense, but it doesn't always work :) Shell 14:27, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Please explain your votes in the Climate Change case

I (and I'm sure other editors) would like explanations of arbitrators' reasoning and votes in several areas of this case. I'm particularly concerned about your Fof 10.1 on William Connolley and BLPs. I've set up a section at the PD talk page here. Politely discussing specific votes and the reasoning for them is the most likely way for most editors to avoid intense frustration. Many editors have put in long hours on this case and would like to know why you're coming to various conclusions about it. -- JohnWBarber (talk) 14:13, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

The reason I opted for the second wording was because I felt there was more to it than just simple edits that everyone would look at and scream "BLP Violation!". Having looked at the evidence and some of the biographies brought to our attention I felt that more than just obvious BLP violations, there was a serious issue with his edits over time focusing too much on particular subjects (undue weight) or eventually skewing the biography in a particular direction. Those more subtle issues are a bit difficult to concretely show with diffs. In any case, if you look at my other votes, that's the reason I supported banning from all biographies tangentially related to climate change subjects. Shell 03:48, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

On BLPs

Not that it matters, but it was Carcharoth who brought up the "consider a bio as a whole" point (cf. proposed principle 8). Guettarda (talk) 12:55, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

When in one of your votes on the Climate Change arbitration you referred to "the idea that you shouldn't edit a biography unless you're prepared to consider the article as a whole rather than simply inserting a tidbit of information", I think you mean this item by Carcharoth, which I'm thinking of mentioning on Misplaced Pages talk:Biographies of living persons in case it might be useful in clarifying the policy's wording. --TS 16:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you both; that's exactly what I was looking for. Shell 03:49, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Climate Change discretionary sanctions vote looks odd

In your oppose vote to proposed remedy 1 "Discretionary sanctions", in the Climate Change arbitration proposed decision, you say "This or 1.1 is acceptable."

The comment in support of remedies 1 and 1.1 doesn't seem to be consistent with your opposition vote to proposed remedy 1 and I suspect you made a mistake (or else are undecided). Would you please revisit that and see if it says what you want it to say? --TS 17:06, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh thank you! I had an edit conflict with Kirill while writing up my comments and pasted that one back in the wrong place. Good catch :) Shell 04:10, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

WP:PIECE

Was written by me on the suggestion of Ronnotel. (You appear to refer to this on the interminable CC page) Collect (talk) 21:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you much - I knew someone had talked about writing an essay :) Exactly what I was looking for. Shell 03:57, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

The Signpost: 6 September 2010

• News and notes: Pending changes analyzed, Foundation report, Main page bias, brief news

• In the news: WikiLeaks and Misplaced Pages; Google–WP collaboration to translate health information

• Book review: Cognitive Surplus, by Clay Shirky

• Dispatches: Tools, part 1: References, external links, categories and size

• WikiProject report: Putting articles in their place: the Uncategorized Task Force

• Features and admins: Bumper crop of admins; Obama featured portal marks our 150th

• Arbitration report: Interim desysopping, CU/OS appointments, and more

• Technology report: Development transparency, resource loading, GSoC: extension management

User:QuackGuru

RE: Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette_alerts#QuackGuru_on_Chiropractic. Do you remember this user? --Surturz (talk) 04:59, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes. I've recently warned him over his edits to Chiropractic. If things are continuing, WP:AE might be appropriate. Shell 06:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Siege of Leningrad

Please, look at the Russian version, there is a million less. --85.76.192.91 (talk) 17:46, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I appreciate you trying to correct things, but if you look at the sources, it appears this version is correct. For example, see this source or the sources on List_of_battles_by_casualties#Sieges_and_urban_combat which indicate the total deaths were far more than a million and could have been as high as 4.5 million. Since the article was vandalized before to remove the 1, perhaps the Russian version has also been vandalized?

Just as a hint, if you put a description in the edit summary explaining why you made an edit, it's much less likely to be reverted without explanation. And welcome to Misplaced Pages :) Shell 17:54, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Minor4th finding

To say the least, there are a number of editors, as shown in the evidence section and in their actions since as documented on the PD talk page, who this could be said about. If you're going to single out Minor4th, then you need to single out everyone who has edited in a similar way. If that includes me also, then fine. To not do this is not fair, and I really mean that. Before he withdrew, Rlevse hinted that findings on more editors were forthcoming. If you're taking up the mantle for doing that, then you are doing the right thing. Cla68 (talk) 01:07, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Please bear with me, I'm not done yet. Shell 05:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Like I said, if the findings include me, that's fine, it just needs to something close to fair. Cla68 (talk) 05:51, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

How about if I let you know when I've got everyone on there that I intended and you tell me if you think I missed anyone? Shell 06:10, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I think if you ask that question on the PD talk page, you'll get plenty of responses of who everyone thinks should be listed. Cla68 (talk) 12:58, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Good idea. There is now a new section on the talk page which attempts to gather those already mentioned. Shell 13:08, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

If you're collecting people, don't forget GJP and JWB William M. Connolley (talk) 20:48, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Also ScienceApologist, Rd232, and KDP. Additional findings/diffs warranted for WMC as well. Best to deal with this topic area with a pretty broad brush in my opinion. I'm fine with the finding about me, but let's do be equitable. Minor4th 07:56, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

No, I'd say broad-brush is a very bad approach, signifying lack of thought. This should be done carefully William M. Connolley (talk) 09:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and I'd also add ZP5 to the list of the disruptive. Admitedly not so much, but his ratio of disruption to valuable content is by far the worst (other than TGL) because he adds no valuable content. Sample diffs: (also previous and subsequent tendentious discussion ), , William M. Connolley (talk) 09:54, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I've attempted to put together a list of those being mentioned in a new section. Shell 13:08, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

One useful pointer is GJP's last 5 contributions (as of this moment) William M. Connolley (talk) 20:09, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I've responded to your finding

I originally posted a message here about the finding on me, but instead I am bringing it to arbitration talk. Please respond to my concerns there. ATren (talk) 11:07, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I've left a note there. Shell 12:24, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I assume you are still working on more editors, because it's woefully incomplete as it stands. ATren (talk) 12:16, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Please see this new section for more information. Shell 13:05, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

ANI Appeal

Please review the two sources I have added to my statement which cite WMC's article in exactly the same manner that I did, as an example of alarmism from global cooling. One is peer reviewed, one is a book. Thanks, GregJackP Boomer! 12:46, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Okay, give me a couple hours here as I have to hit two libraries to get my hands on both. Do you have page numbers you can refer me to? Shell 12:53, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

The exact cites are listed on the ANI appeal and on the PD talk pages. GregJackP Boomer! 12:56, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

It you want, I can send you copies of the articles. GregJackP Boomer! 12:57, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Ah missed that - I think that means it's time for me to curl up with a cup of tea and a good tv show. After a quick break to restore my faculties, I'll take a look. If you want to send me the copies (email at the top of this page) that would certainly save some time.

For quick reference (so I don't lose them again):

• Attention: This template ({{cite doi}}) is deprecated. To cite the publication identified by doi:10.1080/00221341.2010.498121, please use {{cite journal}} (if it was published in a bona fide academic journal, otherwise {{cite report}} with |doi=10.1080/00221341.2010.498121 instead.
• Hufbauer, Gary Clyde; Charnovitz, Steve; Kim, Jisun (2009). Global warming and the world trading system. Peterson Institute. p. 115. ISBN 9780881324280

Thanks Shell 13:13, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I've gotten a copy of the book - can you explain what on that page you feel supports the statement "Climate change alarmism or global warming alarmism is a critical description of a rhetorical style which stresses the potentially catastrophic effects of predicted, drastic changes in the earth's climate, which usually means global warming." Shell 14:07, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Could we hold off for a few? Jehochman has proposed a solution that I can live with, and I would like to see if it will pass muster at ANI. Regards, GregJackP Boomer! 16:08, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

No worries, actually after seeing your email, I think you've clearly explained your position. Thank you. Shell 16:29, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you

We haven't always agreed on things. Nevertheless, thank you for diff diving to help sort out the CC mess. Jehochman 15:58, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Doing my best. Thank you. Shell 16:43, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Please explain why this is disruptive

You voted on a finding that this diff is disruptive. Please explain why. ATren (talk) 12:23, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

It's an example of the battleground ideas that seem to permeate most discussions about the topic area - i.e. if one biography that's perceived to be on one "side" gets changed, others on the other "side" should get something else done to them. The net result of this mentality is a topic area that's so degenerated that we're barely able to keep up with the constant back and forth on the case itself while things continue to flare up on the articles, talk pages, user pages and just about everywhere else. Shell 12:43, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Shell, look at the articles and tell me they're not. I'm not creating the disruption, I'm documenting it. I've been watching these articles for years and I've seen editors accept criticism sourced to Mother Jones while rejecting New York Times in the same week, the only difference being that the former was on someone they didn't agree with and the latter on someone they did. How is it disruptive to demand that the same editors editing the same batch of articles on the same topics use the same editorial standard?

Here's an example: George Monbiot is highly critical of GW skeptics, and has written many opinions in the Guardian on those skeptics. For years I have seen Monbiot added to these skeptic BLPs, and if you look today, he's everywhere (see this search, and scan down a few pages, you will see a who's who of CC skepticism). Now, Monbiot's opinion is reliable and relevant, right? Not always, apparently. See this edit from today: "Why do we care about Monbiot on this page?" -- the implication is that Monbiot is only reliable when he is criticizing skeptics. I have seen this kind of thing for years on these articles. I've seen primary sources and blogs being used regularly on BLPs of those they disagree with, but when there was a criticism of someone they agreed with, they rejected major newspapers as a source. That's the context of what I was responding to many months ago in that diff, and now you come along and tell me I was being disruptive for trying to address a long-standing problem.

And if you think it's not a problem, look at the skeptic BLPs and compare them to those who are supportive of the mainstream view. The skeptics are filled with any critical opinion that could be dug up from any reliable source. The mainstream BLPs are nearly completely scrubbed of all criticism. For someone like me who has no horse in this fight (I never did and never will, I don't care about this topic), the contrast is striking. To anyone who looks at these BLPs side by side, we look like an advocacy site. It's embarrassing. You want to talk big picture, I was fighting for the big picture -- applying a consistent standard to articles in the same topic -- and now I am being sanctioned for it. That's a travesty. This is why nobody but those with a strong POV will ever get involved in this topic area, because authorities like you refuse to see the root of the problem, but instead sanction people like me for responding to it. ATren (talk) 13:08, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I would certainly agree that there are other editors whose behavior has been significantly worse than your own. This is one of the reasons I noted on the decision itself that it's very interesting to see which findings have diffs that span months and which ended up with the same number of diffs in only days. I would also agree that there are many editors whose bias has shown up in their editing and that this is likely one of the root causes of the mentality that exists in the topic area at this time. We're doing our best to come up with a way to return the topic area to more normal, collegiate, productive editing and I personally feel that many editors who wouldn't normally be a net negative have lost their sense of proportion, likely for good reason mind you, but nonetheless are now contributing to further degradation of the editing environment. Shell 13:19, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

OK, I can respect that. But given the large number of editors involved in findings, some of them less culpable than others, perhaps you should give SirFozzie's suggestion some consideration. I supported that proposal because it would remove everyone who has edit-warred, without prejudice, and allow a fresh start. From my perspective, the battlefield is already there, and trying to pick out individual soldiers is bound to be less effective than a wholesale removal -- either you set the bar for disruption too high, thereby missing some of the low-level combatants, or you set it too low and hand out an explicit sanction a bunch of editors who entered this battlefield and got caught in the crossfire. The former is ineffective, the latter is unfair to some of those caught in the net. By instituting a blanket ban based on edit-warring, and by making it a group finding with no statement on individual wrongdoing, you can eliminate ALL the combatants without unnecessarily tainting those who tried to help but got caught up in the battle. ATren (talk) 13:38, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

We're seriously considering how to put together an appropriate remedy and are definitely taking your points into consideration; there are unlikely to be a horde of new individual remedies especially if we can come up with something more broad that the Arbs can agree on. If you have any other thoughts on how to word such a thing or what it should take into consideration, feel free to drop me a note. Shell 13:45, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I think you're on the right track. Seeing what had happened to other reasonable editors in the topic area has made me very cautious. I'm no longer editing the articles because I don't think it's possible to do so without in some way making the atmosphere worse. Since the content is by-and-large acceptable, and in some places quite the best Misplaced Pages has to offer, I don't feel so bad about staying out of editing. But this isn't the best we can do. It's imperative that Misplaced Pages deal with the poisonous atmosphere. --TS 13:33, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I see ATren is bringing up, obliquely, his revert at Phil Jones. ATren restored contentious material for no obvious reason. The place to discuss that is the article talk page, no run off to an arb. Blindly reverting and providing no justification, as ATren has done, is yet more battleground stuff from him William M. Connolley (talk) 13:50, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Why did you remove it? Monbiot is reliable, you know that, it's well presented and well sourced. There was no reason for it's removal especially given Monbiot's ubiquitous presence on BLPs in this topic area. This is exactly the kind of thing that happens constantly here -- you remove something for no reason, or perhaps add a blog-sourced claim to the BLP of someone you don't like, and then the editor who reverts you is labeled disruptive. ATren (talk) 14:03, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Whoa nelly! Or in other words, let's not re-fight content disputes on my talk page please. Shell 14:07, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Shell, it's more than just content, it demonstrates the problem. WMC removes a well sourced claim (well-sourced because Monbiot is everwhere), I revert him, and, like clockwork, another editor (Dave Souza) reverts it back out calling it "questionable" and "unsourced". Dave is one of those editors who provides support in these debates (Verbal is another) but never actually engages significantly enough to be sanctioned. They are part of the slow-brew edit war that has been going on here for years, and Shell, your proposals will likely not mention them because, usually, all they contribute is a revert. It gives every appearance of a tactic -- these editors coming out of nowhere to contribute a revert like a sniper firing from a distant hill -- but if someone like me refers to it as a tactic, I am being disruptive. Shell, you need to deal with the root problem, and editors like me, Cla, M4th are NOT the root problem. ATren (talk) 14:14, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

For a look at the problem with editors like Verbal and dave souza, please see this section of PD talk (which is now archived): Minor4th 14:29, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

That's why SF's proposal makes sense, because it removes everyone who has been involved in warring, including those drive-by revert editors who would not otherwise be sanctioned because they don't engage. ATren (talk) 14:34, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

If an editor is drive-by-reverting with no attempt at discussion, you're welcome to propose a finding of fact along the lines of those being added now. What we really need at this point are diffs of the things that are causing problems or actual finding proposals - adding more names to the list is fine, but my husband is beginning to wonder what happened to me :) Shell 15:16, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Shell, please see the diff I linked above. I made a proposed finding and supplied several diffs. That section of the page is now archived, but you can get the information and links from the diff in my last post above. By the way, ATRen has apparently installed an enforced wikibreak and will not be editing any more. Minor4th 15:21, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, from the Javascript source it appears that ATren will now be unable to edit until October. --TS 15:49, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm with Shell. This discussion belongs on the Phil Jones talk page. Further, I argue that attempting to present a skewed view of it *here* is just special pleading. ATren, M4th: if you're interested in why the quote was removed, the place for discussion is Talk:Phil Jones (climatologist)‎. I' already there, discussing some other issues with that page (you might find that conversation enlightening). Do please join me William M. Connolley (talk) 14:38, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

FYI

Hi, I just want to thank you for cleaning up the talk page of the PD so it actually downloads in a reasonable amount of time. I appreciate it and also the hard work that you and the other arbitrators are doing trying to sort the mess out. As an outsider, I guess lurker is what I could be called for the most part, your jobs are lousy right now with this case, esp. looking at your talk page. I don't know what to say about all of the above other than I think the editors need to give you arbitrators some breathing room by taking the kind of things that are being brought to your talk page and other arbs talk pages to the PD to be discussed. Anyways, thank you, --CrohnieGal 18:30, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

That was one of my goals - the other was being able to actually follow new discussions. I tried to keep things together (i.e. all of the statements in one place, all of the finding comments in one place) so that it won't be too difficult to look at or refer to earlier comments. I hope it's more usable now :) Shell 14:28, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Projection Date

Do you have a projection date (calendar date) for me? Skyeking (talk) 22:45, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Disengaging has not reduced accusations

I had hoped disengaging with Petri at my talk page would be a positive; however, Petri has only moved his venue:

"...The arbitrators have seen the EEML evidence. If they have, they should be fully aware that the EE mailing list was primarily targeted at my user account and someone in real life they thought was me...."

"...I would not be surprised, if some kind of secret email campaign against me was going on at this very moment conducted by former EEML members, as I have already seen some alarming signs of hanky-panky...."

...per this diff.

Petri was banned long before EEML for his own actions. His Petri-centric victimology: relitigation of EEML; accusations of being a primary target of EEML members in the past and current alarming hanky panky are unfortunate at best. Of greater concern is that Petri appears to be escalating his allegations of mistaken WP:OUTING attempts—formerly directed at me personally but now at EEML as a group—without putting it in so many words, when it has already been suggest to Petri that he disengage. I have not commented at the amendment whence these unfortunate comments were posted as I have no desire to pour lighter fluid on the discussion there. I'm not block shopping, but I would like to see an end to this charade.

Lastly, I have no desire to prepare a more detailed response which incontrovertibly refutes Petri's false and inflammatory allegations. However, if required, I can do so; although owing to privacy and WP policy issues that would need to be Emailed to ArbCom—having nothing to with Petri's alleged "secret mailing campaign." PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 15:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC)