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Revision as of 17:55, 19 September 2010 editWGFinley (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users5,088 editsm →Proposed Remedy← Previous edit Revision as of 18:47, 19 September 2010 edit undoJacurek (talk | contribs)9,609 edits →Comments on Proposed RemedyNext edit →
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Is a 'no interaction ban' really needed for ]? I don't see any misconduct by his part. We should be careful with handing out interaction bans like this for experienced users. Recent enforcement requests have shown that such bans, if imposed liberally, often stir drama rather than curb it. ] ] 11:03, 18 September 2010 (UTC) Is a 'no interaction ban' really needed for ]? I don't see any misconduct by his part. We should be careful with handing out interaction bans like this for experienced users. Recent enforcement requests have shown that such bans, if imposed liberally, often stir drama rather than curb it. ] ] 11:03, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
:It's pretty clear to me me from the above that these four do not get along and there is little hope in them getting along productively. --] (]) 17:42, 19 September 2010 (UTC) :It's pretty clear to me me from the above that these four do not get along and there is little hope in them getting along productively. --] (]) 17:42, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
::I’m happy with your decision. I have no interests in interacting with these two, EVER. If you have time, please carefully review Varsovian’s edits from the time of his sudden appearance last year to understand why. Unfortunately, to understand the problem you have to dig deep into it and analyze everything, even decisions of certain administrators. The only problem I see is that user Chochum7 was sanctioned unfairly. He was never sanctioned or banned before in any way and if you review his history of interaction with user Varsovian you may come to the same conclusion that in his case ban is unnecessary. If anybody needs to get the interaction ban here it is ] who does not come here with "clean hands” ( check his history ) and according to the note of yours may and should be sanctioned for aggressive lobbing for his ally Dr.Dan.--] (]) 18:47, 19 September 2010 (UTC)


===Result concerning Varsovian=== ===Result concerning Varsovian===

Revision as of 18:47, 19 September 2010

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    Nableezy

    Nableezy and Ynhockey advised to be careful in their future interactions. No further action taken. PhilKnight (talk) 23:02, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Request concerning Nableezy

    User requesting enforcement
    Ynhockey 21:05, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles#Discretionary sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Personal attacks and another concern, see comments section
    2. Personal attacks
    3. Edit-warring on an article about settlements right after ban's expiration
    4. Personal attack against Brewcrewer (unrelated to settlements)
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. ARBPIA notification by PhilKnight (talk · contribs)
    2. Notification of ban for similar misconduct
    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
    A ban on articles about settlements
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Nableezy and I have a history of unfortunate interactions, and in most cases I prefer to avoid any kind of interaction rather than potentially enter a heated dispute (as is usually the case in this topic area). Nableezy has been going around articles about Israeli settlements with an attempt to demonstrate that they are illegal under international law. He has edit-warred and personally attacked other editors in this topic area on numerous occasions, and was banned for this behavior in the past. What made me file this report now of all times was this comment, where Nableezy states that he will use sources only for one purpose (adding sentences about settlements' legalities) while refusing to make constructive contributions to these articles based on the same sources. I have contributed to articles about settlements in the past (and intend to do so in the future), and to me this comment is incredibly disheartening. I believe that this kind of outlook is much more severe than either edit-warring or civility, and, to cite WP:ARBPIA, goes against the very purpose of Misplaced Pages. It also shows that Nableezy chooses to adopt a clear WP:BATTLE attitude by only adding information that is controversial. As far as I can tell, Nableezy has not made any other contributions to settlement-related articles. —Ynhockey 21:05, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    Further comment: Just for the record, I do not oppose this edit (and won't unless there's consensus against it from other editors), and my complaint has nothing to do with this edit, or indeed any content issue, but with Nableezy's behavior only. —Ynhockey 21:29, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    Re to PhilKnight: I would like to hear your opinion on whether you support editing in a manner that's meant to be controversial while refusing to make non-controversial contributions to articles. —Ynhockey 22:45, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    Given you've asked the same question on my user talk, I'll reply there. PhilKnight (talk) 22:55, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    Another question to PhilKnight: You did not see a problem with Nableezy's conduct in the first two diffs. In the second one he makes a statement that he doesn't take anything I say seriously (and, implicitly, other editors who are perceived as pro-Israel). If that is the case, how are we supposed to engage in dispute resolution? The basis for successful dispute resolution (and I speak from experience) is that both parties must take each other seriously and understand the other side's concerns.
    I'll reply here, if I may. From the context, I gather Nableezy is saying that he doesn't take seriously the view that it's dehumanizing to describe the people who live there as settlers. Again, for hopefully the last time, I still don't consider Nableezy's conduct to be substantially worse than yours. PhilKnight (talk) 23:48, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Nableezy

    Statement by Nableezy

    This is somewhat ridiculous. Ynhockey says here that "If you feel that the legality is another important fact, feel free to mention it in 8 words or less". I did that in the next edit, using only 6 words instead of 8 to address his somewhat inane argument that the 10 words that had been used was undue weight. Yn seems to think I am obligated to add any information that I can find about these settlements. The information that I am interested in is the information on the legality and so I add that information to these articles with sources that back my edits. I have emphatically not edit warred at this article. Yn removed the material as unsourced here (from an article that has no sources at all!). I reinserted the material and added a source here, addressing the cause for his removal. A "new" user removed it and I reverted the edit. The "new" user removed it again, again without commenting on the talk page as to why they were removing the content. The only user besides myself on the talk page talking about the content was Yn who said at this time "If you feel that the legality is another important fact, feel free to mention it in 8 words or less." I did exactly that and he brings me here? What is happening here is relatively transparent, but I think if I were to explicitly say why Yn brought this request he might call it a "personal attack". The first 2 diffs are not personal attacks, the 3rd one is but happened on my talk page after an editor did something somewhat stupid. nableezy - 21:16, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

    WGFinley, every page in the category Category:Israeli settlements and each of its sub-cats is in my watchlist. Ynhockey hasnt even accused me of hounding him. nableezy - 22:27, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

    Yn, no such implication is made, and I take some things you say seriously. The topic under discussion was you claiming that calling Israeli settlers "settlers" is dehumanizing. No, I do not take your view that calling settlers "settlers" is dehumanizing seriously. nableezy - 23:29, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

    Comments by others about the request concerning Nableezy

    Statement by Supreme Deliciousness, this is really ridiculous, Ynhocky (an admin) complains about Nableezy adding the only sourced material to the Psagot article. Why does Ynhocky want the only sourced material in that article removed? If an Israeli settlement is illegal under international law, isn't that a pretty huge deal? He first complained about it being unsourced: and then when source is added, he instead says at the talkpage that the sentence is "superfluous" . I have also seen Ynhocky push a very strong non neutral pov at the First Battle of Mount Hermon article: "the claim that it's in Syria is just as "valid" as the claim that it's in Israel." (remember, this is a region that is internationally recognized as a region in Syria) . Its unfortunate that an admin edits in such a non neutral manner. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:40, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

    Off topic discussion of another user - please stick to the one at hand.
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    And btw, this "new" user: User:LibiBamizrach, who reverted Nableezy twice, is not a "new" user, it is an old Misplaced Pages user with a new account that he is now using to edit war on a variety of pages. The SPI was temporary deleted because of claims of "privacy reasons" --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    I have already had enough of Nableezy accusing me of this garbage of being a sockpuppet on the talk page of Psagot article. Stop it already. You too Supreme Deliciousness. I do not know why you also have a problem with me. Maybe because as soon as someone presents an opinion on their edits that is not anti-Israel (in line with your point of view), so you decide they must be a sockpuppet. I really do not know or actually care. But the problem is you present no evidence of anything that makes me a sockpuppet so unless you can do this then stop attacking me (please read WP:NPA thanks). It is not acceptable to me. LibiBamizrach (talk) 22:38, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    And also next time if you talk about me somewhere do not do behind my back. If you want to have a discussion about me then notify me I have a talk page you should probably know where to find it? Thanks. LibiBamizrach (talk) 22:41, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    If I have presented no evidence of you being a sockpuppet, then why did you talk about my SPI and was laughing here: ? , and I don't have to notify you about anything because you are already wikistalking me --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 23:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

    Comment by Cptnono It looks like the requester and I are on similar pages. I recently opened up a discussion about this at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Current Article Issues#Legality and edit warring. Of course it is a problem when Nableezy returns from a ban partially based on the same exact line in other articles to make reverts/partial reverts without consensus. We all know a ban or block will not come from this request but I certainly hope editors will see that discussion since it is a hot button issue that has not been properly addressed. And Nableezy should at least be reminded that his behavior might be a problem.

    And civility is an ongoing problem. I think that is a broader issue that would only serve to muddle up this request since it deals with other article's. I would like to remind Nableezsy that it is not OK to comment on why he believes people are making edits when it is done in a pointed fashion. I was sanctioned for it and Nableezy is fully aware of the issue.Cptnono (talk) 22:00, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

    This is already spiraling into unreadability and getting off topic. Hockey provided a link to the history of the article. In that history the following reverts/partial reverts can be seen: over a short period (few days) without consensus. As Shuki points out, this is a resumption of behavior he was recently blocked for. It very well might be a good edit so maybe it shouldn't be controversial. But it is controversial. Can an admin simply remind Nableezy to chill with the revert button and crawl through the consensus building process like we are supposed to?Cptnono (talk) 01:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
    I've posted a comment on his talk page. PhilKnight (talk) 02:53, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
    I see that this is about to be closed out. Thought that was a great idea until Nableezy kept on editing the disputed line even though there is an attempt at a centerilzed discussion off the page and a discussion (without consensus on the page). What is so wrong with holding off on making the edit until there is consensus or at least until more people are onboard?Cptnono (talk) 20:12, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
    Can the closing and commenting admins address the above edits before closing this? They look to me to be a too similar to the primary reason this was originally opened.Cptnono (talk) 20:39, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
    We could, this admin can tell you it wouldn't end with Nableezy. Takes two people to edit war usually and were we to wade into this and start taking action it would not stop there. It's what Phil was getting at when he was trying to balance behavior. --WGFinley (talk) 23:29, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
    Go for it. Anyone making multiple and/or contraversial changes when there is an ongoing discussion needs to be aware of the consequences.Cptnono (talk) 23:33, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
    And I have already said that I don't believe this AE request will end in blocks or bans and it is still doubtful. He received notice on his talk page and at the very least it needs to be repeated. Cptnono (talk) 23:35, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
    • Shuki,
    • Haberstr,
    • Ynhockey(is it more and I am missing one? I somewhat understand your concern with his revert, though)
    • LibiBamizrach + tag
    There has been a request on the talk page to stop but it keeps on going:
    • Brewcrewer:some new ones (sequential)
    • Nableezy: 4 reverts/partial and some sequential but still controversial edits (these diffs are previous to the additional request to relax on reverts) + a new tag
    What needs to happen for some administrator intervention? It is obvious that Nableezy is the problem but others are also guilty. "Wade" in there and tell editors to knock it off. Cptnono (talk) 08:35, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

    Comment by Zero0000 Despite being on opposite sides of the fence, both Nableezy and Ynhockey are editors who edit with integrity, a valuable commodity in a part of Misplaced Pages where such editors are outnumbered by pure POV-pushers. This particular episode seems to me like a storm in a tea-cup. Nableezy's words might have been better chosen, for sure, but I don't see an offense that can't be handled by a cooling off and calm discussion. Zero 00:17, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

    Comment by Shuki Integrity and nableezy? Zero, please read more of the case here and what is surrounding it. Ynhockey brought up that Nableezy is a quintessential POV pusher uninterested with improving WP. In this case, Nableezy seems to be showing his trademark lack of collaboration, and consistent post topic-ban POV pushing. WP is hoping that these repeated topic bans and warnings would motivate Nableezy into a being collaborative editor, but I guess not yet. --Shuki (talk) 00:43, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

    How is Nableezy pov pushing and how is he uninterested in improving wikipedia by adding the international view to an article and adding the only sources into an un sourced article? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:48, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
    It seems that Nableezy is continually getting warned. At what point do all those warnings mount up to something? --Shuki (talk) 20:22, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

    Comment by JRHammond

    I'm not involved in this. I was just curious seeing Nableezy here, as we've encountered each other elsewhere. So I took a moment to examine the claim. There simply are no personal attacks by Nableezy in the diffs provided (1) and (2), period. As for (3), "edit-warring", at a glance Ynhockey has quite a few more edits than Nableezy. How are Nableezy's edits "warring" but Ynhockey's own not so? The claim is made, but no actual argument or facts to support it are presented. As for (4), on Nableezy's own talk page, he says, "I really did not think you were that stupid." At a glance, I don't understand the context for that remark. Perhaps Nableezy could explain it. In any event, so what? Has Brewcrewer himself filed a complaint? Why is Ynhockey speaking for him? If this is about someone having their feelings hurt by "personal attacks", real or alleged, I would suggest if people can't take the heat, they get out of the kitchen. Toughen up and don't be so extremely sensitive. I hardly think Nableezy's comment on his own talk page, which is the only thing even remotely substantive here, warrants any punitive action. But it's pretty clear this isn't about Nableezy violating Misplaced Pages standards. This is clearly the heart of the issue:

    "Nableezy has been going around articles about Israeli settlements with an attempt to demonstrate that they are illegal under international law." -- Ynhockey

    Ynhockey doesn't like Nableezy pointing out the indisputable facts (and it is a completely uncontroversial point of fact under international law that the settlements are illegal), and so is trying to silence him by seeking punitive action. This itself is abusive behavior. JRHammond (talk) 03:27, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

    Comment by BorisG

    Looks like a routine content dispute. I disagree with Nableezy on many issues but I do not see a problem here. He is interested of putting certain material from the sources but not all of it? Fine, Ynhockey can add more. Indeed a storm in a teacup, in my view. - BorisG (talk) 04:48, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

    'Comment by Sol Goldstone "I propose that you use the source to improve the article (write about its winery) and in the process we can think of something regarding the legality issue. Until you make it clear that your goal is improving the article, I will have trouble supporting your edits about legality. —Ynhockey (Talk) 16:14, 11 September 2010 (UTC)" So the bulk of the accusation is that he refused to meet arbitrary criteria? If the information satisfies policy standards how can you set conditional requirements on its inclusion? Never mind why the editor's intent is important. Sol Goldstone (talk) 22:17, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

    Result concerning Nableezy

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    The first 2 diffs show Nableezy and Ynhockey criticising each other on an article talk page. I've formally notified Ynhockey of the WP:ARBPIA sanctions, however beyond suggesting they use WP:RFC/USER for personal criticism, I don't think any further action is required. The 3rd link isn't a diff, and I'm unsure what it's supposed to be showing. The 4th diff is uncivil, but was over a week ago, so I don't see why it's being dredged up now. PhilKnight (talk) 21:40, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

    Diff 3 (though not really a diff, it's a history link) shows Nableezy reverting Ynhockey on a topic he's never edited before 5 minutes after Ynhockey has edited it., Ynhockey had edited the article before. This would indicate Nableezy could be hounding Ynhockey's contributions. --WGFinley (talk) 22:15, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    Nableezy has edited the topic of Israeli settlements previously, but not that individual article. Looking at the edit immediately before that diff, Ynhockey's edit disingenuously says the statement was unsourced, when anybody familiar with IP dispute would be aware of the legal situation, and easily be able to find a source. PhilKnight (talk) 22:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    Oh I agree there are clean hands issues here but while saying one isn't as bad as the other, neither is good. --WGFinley (talk) 23:50, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    Based on Nableezy explaining how he came to that page and the advice given on his talk page, I'm in agreement with Phil on this and see no action needed at this point. --WGFinley (talk) 18:27, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
    I agree. I see Nableezy getting involved in content disputes. People in content disputes are human and tend to piss each other off. That's just how it goes. I see no need for action here. ~Amatulić (talk) 20:18, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

    Are we ready to close then? I would be in favor of no action with a warning to both to mind their interaction lest further sanctions be needed. --WGFinley (talk) 15:21, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Edith Sirius Lee

    Consensus is current sanctions have been effective, appeals denied, suggest a timeline similar to WP:OFFER for review. --WGFinley (talk) 22:03, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    Edith Sirius Lee (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 18:29, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    A collective 1RR limitation . It has been logged here
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator

    Statement by Edith Sirius Lee

    The AE request and sanction statement refered to Tag Team and use of Misplaced Pages for propaganda. From a general standpoint, I want to say that I am against Tag Team and I object to any use of Misplaced Pages for propaganda. For example see , which I wrote when I was still anonymous before I created my account. I made an informal appeal , but received no response at all. In the following, I present my formal appeal to that sanction.

    The warning. The "warning" that is mentioned in the Arb Request Enforcement was about a content dispute and has been presented to me by an editor that was involved in that dispute. We had a disagreement about what are the main findings and conclusions of a meta-analysis. My understanding progressed in that discussion, for example see . At the end, my edits were basically taken from the summary of results in the source and reflected my honest understanding of this source. In any case, there were no mention of any thing closely related to Tag Team and collective restriction in that warning.

    Note added by Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 23:03, 16 September 2010 (UTC) : The administrator who drafted the requirement for a warning clarified that the intent was that the warning must be presented by an independent administrator

    The edit. The specific edit for which I am sanctioned is . This was a revert to material that I wrote alone. Except for a possible and natural overlaps in the views (on sources) of editors, it was not material advanced by a team. It did not violate the Misplaced Pages policy. Even if it did, there were no warning specific to whatever rule would have been violated (e.g. Tag Team). I hope that the sanction I received based on that revert will be reconsidered.

    Consensus in a Rfc. Part of the argument presented to support the sanction is that I would not have accepted a concensus in a Rfc . The Rfc was presented as a vote between two options. I did not realize that other editors could perhaps see this Rfc as a definitive survey. If editors sees a Rfc as a survey, policy about survey should apply. I was interested in all the comments expressed by outside editors in the talk page, especially when a comment came after what could be interpreted as a vote. No definitive conclusion could be drawn from the comments. For example see where Yobol is one of the two external editors. After the Arbitration Request Enforcement started, at the request of Doc James , Yobol made additional comments (e.g. ), but they came after the sanction was closed and are thus irrelevant to determine whether I accepted consensus or not.

    The preceding statement was written on 18:29, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

    Response to Doc James and Future Perfect at Sunrise

    The quiet environment or success that Doc James and User:Future Perfect at Sunrise are referring to is the following . Basically, a new article about Transcendental Meditation, named Transcendental Meditation Technique, has been created without any consensus . As a justification for the new article, it was suggested that the main Transcendental Meditation article can be used as some kind of "disambiguation page" and a parent article . Actually, the new article is a fork to remove peer reviewed scientific research, including many systematic reviews, from the main Transcendental Meditation article . Note the explanation "moved from the main article" given by Doc James. This important fork of the main article was done without any consensus and very little discussion while the question how to present research in the Transcendental Meditation article was accepted for formal mediation . Moreover, if this parent article is like a disambiguation page, this also violates the guideline regarding disambiguation since it clearly also requires a consensus amongst the editors:

    There are no absolute rules for determining which topic is most likely to be sought by readers; decisions are made by discussion between editors, often as a result of a requested move.

    Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 16:15, 13 September 2010 (UTC) Updated Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 15:56, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

    Response to Cirt

    If I was mislead about the procedure to follow to appeal , please accept my apology. I asked help to make sure that I do it right but no help was provided because it was assumed that I have a lot of experience with arbitration , which I do not have. I even originally misplaced my appeal in the amendment section of Arb Requests because I thought an appeal was an amendment . This is why it was moved. Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 18:11, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

    Response to WGFinley

    Actually, I did not violate 1RR, since I only did one revert. Moreover, there are side consequences to a sanction. It suggests to other editors that I have strongly and repeatedly (even after warning) violated policy. I have the right to clean myself from such accusations. Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 16:10, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

    I never said you violated 1RR, I'm saying it's good for you. --WGFinley (talk) 23:05, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

    @WGFinley: I did self apply 1RR and I agree that it is good for me to do so. In fact, I did even more than that: I self applied collective 1RR. When I did the revert , I had in my mind that I was reverting to my own material. I would not have reverted otherwise. Please, having an unfair sanction cannot be a good thing for me. Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 15:37, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

    Statement by Future Perfect at Sunrise

    Sorry for the late response. I believe these sanctions have been overall successful, as they have reduced the unacceptable level of edit-warring on the pages in question. As such, I believe they should not be overturned. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:07, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

    Statement by User:Jmh649 (Doc James)

    Misplaced Pages should be written by people independent of the subject at hand (see WP:COI and by those who contribute broadly to the encyclopedia. Having a 1R policy on this collection of SPA definitely has made a historically controversial page easier to edit on as can be seen with the more quite quiet editing environment recently. User:JamesBWatson an editor not involved with this topic provides a clear summary of matters here Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:12, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

    Statement by Will Beback

    FWIW, another party covered by this enforcement, Littleolive oil (talk · contribs), has requested a clarification of the enforcement process at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification#Transcendental Meditation movement.   Will Beback  talk  06:09, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

    Statement by Cirt

    Chronology of recent appeals
    1. 18:29, 12 September 2010 - Edith Sirius Lee (talk · contribs) files appeal, was moved and currently located at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Edith_Sirius_Lee.
    2. 20:24, 12 September 2010 - Littleolive oil (talk · contribs) files appeal, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification#Request_for_clarification:_Transcendental_Meditation_movement_Arbitration_and_Enforcement.
    Notes
    Question
    1. Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Edith_Sirius_Lee
    2. Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification#Request_for_clarification:_Transcendental_Meditation_movement_Arbitration_and_Enforcement
    • Can these two processes be consolidated into one page somewhere? Do these two separate processes filed by these two Transcendental Meditation-focused accounts need to be ongoing at two different pages at the same time?

    Thank you for your time, -- Cirt (talk) 16:37, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

    Statement by Fladrif

    The appealing party is a SPA who claims to be a new editor, other than for series of IP edits for 10 days prior to registering this user name. While no SPI has been commenced, a number of editors have questioned the assertion that ESL is a new editor. The claim that there was inadequate warning is meritless. The editor was repeatedly warned that s/he was violating the TM ArbCom decision in a number of respects, including for improper reversions of sourced material (the same editing behaviour which resulted in the sanctions) well prior to the further warning by DocJames, the commencement of AE, and the imposition of sanctions. This was not some rogue admin imposing meritless sanctions without proper justification or process. Three univolved admins strongly concurred in the imposition of these sanctions. They should not be lifted or modified. Fladrif (talk) 20:40, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

    • ESL's most recent round of arguments are irrelevant to the appeal, but are telling nonetheless. The complaint is that other editors are making edits with which s/he disagrees. How is that relevant to whether the sanctions should be lifted or modified? It isn't. But ESL's "solution" is that the 1RR collective restriction on ESL, LOO and TG be lifted. Why? The only conclusion is that ESL, and LOO, who filed a separate request for "clarification" that has been denied as an appeal filed in the wrong forum, want the power to repeatedly revert edits with which they disagree - up to 3 times per day individually and 9 times per day collectively (counting TG) in a single article absent the restriction. Fladrif (talk) 17:32, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

    Statement by (involved editor 3)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Edith Sirius Lee

    Result of the appeal by Edith Sirius Lee

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    I'm going to let FutPer comment before I put in a formal position but to be honest I am going to have a difficult time accepting these appeals. Many editors, myself included, hold themselves to WP:1RR voluntarily and follow WP:ROWN as a way to demonstrate good faith and avoid edit warring. If you need to revert something more than once for anything other than vandalism then there is a good chance you are fermenting an edit war. In short, 1RR is good for you and shoudn't be anything to file an appeal over. --WGFinley (talk) 15:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

    There being no other comments it appears to be the consensus is the restrictions have been beneficial, therefore I see no reason to remove them at this time. --WGFinley (talk) 22:01, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

    Varsovian

    Request concerning Varsovian

    User requesting enforcement
    Jacurek
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Varsovian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren#Discretionary sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy

    With this bold allegation of sock puppetry user Varsovian violated his restrictions as discribed below:

    "..whenever he alleges misconduct by another editor, he must with the same edit provide all diffs that are required to substantiate his allegations, or link to the place where he has already provided these diffs, if he has not already provided them in the same section of the discussion at issue." Failure to comply with these restrictions may be sanctioned with escalating blocks or additional sanctions

    Diffs of prior warnings against the conduct objected to


    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

    Block and extension of his topic ban from the topic of Eastern Europe, broadly construed.


    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Varsovian

    Notice from WGFinley

    As an uninvolved admin trying to sort out this mess I am instructing all parties here to only post if they have something directly related to this complaint. Further, I don't want to hear about any previous complaints, filings, findings, hurt feelings, etc unless there is a claim a user is in violation of a standing sanction against him/her. If that's not the case I don't want to hear about it. Finally, I will remind all here that you had best not post here if you come with unclean hands as you risk being sanctioned yourself. Given that almost all the parties here have been involved in one sanction or another I would warn you that patience among admins is wearing thin with these constant disturbances and further squabbling could result in bans from the Eastern Europe topic altogether. Misplaced Pages is not a battleground and the constant attempts to turn it into one with partisan editing needs to stop. --WGFinley (talk) 23:20, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

    Statement by Varsovian

    1. I do not make any allegation or insinuation of socking.
    2. My comment regarded apparent possible off-wiki communication. Off-wiki communication is not misconduct. Therefore I am not required by my sanction to supply diffs and casting aspersions does not apply either.
    3. I made no comment on any matter related to EE and specifically stated "I can/will not comment on Raseksz's article edits or this request".
    4. This amendment request involved me and the actions that another editor had taken towards me and thus comes under the classification 'necessary dispute resolution'.
    5. I am banned from taking part in EE-related AE not from Amendment requests.
    6. I do try very hard to AGF but it is near impossible to do so with posters who have repeatedly harassed and attacked me (, , , ).

    It is a well known fact that Jacurek and Radeksz are not the same person. The allegation made by Jacurek is little more than using AE as harassment, precisely the kind of disruptive request that can be meet with a block for the filing party (see here for an example, although not an example that involves Jacurek). Jacurek has in the past been blocked for harassment, harassment of me (see this log). Jacurek has also been blocked for socking as User:Cvc42 and other accounts have been blocked as suspected socks of Jacurek (User:Ambor and User:Mamalala and User:Tommy_on_Theems). If I wanted to accuse Jacurek of having used socks, there wouldn't be any shortage of evidence to support it. However, I did not accuse him of it: my comment was actually a reference to apparent possible off-wiki communication. As far as I am aware, off-wiki communication is not considered misconduct (unless one is socking for a blocked user) and as such, I am not required to provide diffs.
    As for the claim made by Chumchum7 (how fascinating that a semi-retired user should stumble upon this request within 8 hours of it being made) that I have violated my topic ban, I clearly state that "I can/will not comment on Raseksz's article edits or this request": I make no comment on any post or article related to the area of my topic ban; my comment is regarding Radeksz's failure to offer any defence with regard to his actions regarding me after Skäpperöd pointed them out. With regard to Sandstein's comment about "necessary dispute resolution", it is not necessary that Radeksz ceases to engage in the attacks and behaviour pointed out by Skäpperöd? It's also interesting how two posters Radeksz has worked with in the past (see for example how Radeksz and Chumchum7 worked together on the London Victory parade article) now wish to make sure that I am not able to even comment on an Amendment case which involves me (or at least somebody's behaviour towards me). Varsovian (talk) 14:22, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

    Reply to WGFinley

    My understanding is that off-wiki communication is not considered to be misconduct: am I wrong in thinking that? As for AGF, I do try very hard to do that: however, given that Chumchum7 in his last post about me called me a troll four times () and has in the past filed a 2,000 word report described by an admin as "too long and argumentative and contains too few relevant diffs", despite being told "We are not interested in opinions, we are interested in evidence." Chumchum7 then posted the whole text again here and Jacurek has a history of bans for attacking me (this log), sometimes no amount of effort will work.

    Comments by others about the request concerning Varsovian

    I read the "diff" concerning the "Bold allegations of sock puppetry made by Varsovian", offered here by Jacurek. That's a little scary, because either I'm losing it, or my wayward youth is giving me flashbacks. Does any one else see such an assertion made in that "diff" brought forth as evidence? Dr. Dan (talk) 03:09, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

    There is no "bold allegation" in that diff, but there is a clear insinuation of sockpuppetry. "What are the chances" carries the unstated (but obvious) implication "unless they are sockpuppets". What this means in terms of arbitration enforcement against this editor I have no opinion about, since it would seem to turn on whether an insinuation is an example of the user "alleging" something or not, and I stopped counting angels on the heads of pins some years ago. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:32, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
    Wgfinley has asked me to comment here as the admin imposing the original sanction. That sanction is based on the principle recognized by the Arbitration Committee that routinely casting aspersions on others is prohibited (Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ChildofMidnight#Casting aspersions). In the instant case, Varsovian's comment at issue, , violates his instruction not to allege misconduct on the part of others without at the same time providing relevant diffs, although I do not think that this particular violation is grave. Since I'm currently taking a break from AE, I'll leave it to others to decide what sanction, if any, is appropriate.  Sandstein  05:46, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
    But at any rate, Varsovian's contribution to a Eastern Europe-related request for amendment violates his recent topic ban from Eastern Europe, as imposed here, unless the comment was made in the course of necessary dispute resolution, about which I have no opinion.  Sandstein  05:56, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
    As Sandstein says, Varsovian is banned from the Eastern Europe topic area here. This strict restriction was applied after many months of time consuming disputes and personal conflicts involving Varsovian, and after many milder warnings, sanctions and restrictions had failed. Varsovian has now posted on the subject of the Eastern European Mailing List . As Sandstein says, by doing this Varsovian has ignored the strict sanction imposed on him. This supersedes any concerns about (i) his possible allegations of sockpuppetry or (ii) his involvement in AE in a possibly disallowed manner. As it happens, his post at EEML Amendment engages in personal conflict again. For the WP community to remain confident in the the WP enforcement process, and to send a clear message to restricted editors not test authority, further sanctions must be applied on Varsovian now. One option is that his sixth-month ban from Eastern Europe topic areas is restarted from today. -Chumchum7 (talk) 07:14, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
    I wish to repeat that I read the "diff" , and do not see a bold accusation of "sockpuppeteering" (sic). And Ken, there is also not a clear insinuation of sockpuppetry there either. Specifically, I saw it as suggesting that the two had collaborated on the issue in question. Varsovian's statement here seems to substantiate my impression. Actually it's Jacurek who has made wild accusations about myself and sock puppetry that have never been retracted or apologized for. In this post , Jacurek claims, in the most offensive and obscene manner, that Varsovian and I are one and the same person. Talk about throwing stones within glass houses. Dr. Dan (talk) 14:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
    1 - Reminder of Dr.Dan's recent sanctions . Please focus on the misconduct of user Varsovian and cease attacks of your own.--Jacurek (talk) 00:32, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
    2 - Link to one of many copmlaints filed against user Varsovian for those who are not familiar with the history of his editing .

    (OD) Jacurek, I don't have to "cease any attacks" here, because none have been made. Just like there haven't been any "bold" (or not bold) accusations of sockpuppetry made here by Varsovian either. If you consider commenting on your "evidence" to be an attack on you, that's unfortunate. As for the other matter, your obscene and vicious attack on Varsovian and myself was simply putting your M.O. into perspective. Actually, I would have been surprised if you took this opportunity to retract your statement and apologize for it. Would you like me to translate it here for those who do not read Polish? I'd be happy to do so. Dr. Dan (talk) 20:27, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

    Indeed all of us here, myself included, could take another look at WP:BOOMERANG and WP:KETTLE. To date I've never been sanctioned and I think it might be thanks to hearing about a very cool idea called WP:DENY. There is a limit, of course, to how much dickery can be ignored; but when faced with someone itching for a fight (for whatever reason), sometimes non-engagement really works. -Chumchum7 (talk) 08:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
    Accusing other editors here of acting like dicks may well be precisely what WGFinley was cautioning against in his notice. Might I politely suggest that you follow my example and strike out the content which he correctly points out as having no place here? Varsovian (talk) 09:40, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
    I agree that no sanctions are needed against Varsovian right now. Nowhere in this diff did he hint that Jacurek might be applying sock puppets at the moment. Let's copy the sentence concerned: Also interesting that Radeksz repeatedly uses a precise legal term (slander) and Jacurek then uses the precise same term in his 13 word note. What are the chances of that happening?!
    Well, a dormant account suddenly became active, and it's really fair to assume, that he was simply notified off-wiki (though there weren't apparent insinuations regarding this matter either). In addition, Jacurek has previously been using sock puppets (cf his block log). Varsovian simply noted that Jacurek came up with the same legal term that Radek had been using. Nothing more. It seems the whole request is just an essay in WP:POINT. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (t) 18:34, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

    "What are the chances" carries the unstated (but obvious) implication "unless they are sockpuppets".

    No, there needn't be implications of sock puppetry. If there were any implications - obvious or not - it might just as well been that the two users are (still) collaborating off-wiki. For example, Radeksz is known for having proxyed for Molobo.Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (t) 18:51, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

    When I read this my first impression was that it was an unwarranted personal attack, not so much insinuating sock puppetry but improper co-ordination between Jacurek and Radeksz. IMHO some kind of interaction ban would be appropriate here. --Martin (talk) 07:26, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

    Comments on Proposed Remedy

    Is a 'no interaction ban' really needed for Dr. Dan? I don't see any misconduct by his part. We should be careful with handing out interaction bans like this for experienced users. Recent enforcement requests have shown that such bans, if imposed liberally, often stir drama rather than curb it. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (t) 11:03, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

    It's pretty clear to me me from the above that these four do not get along and there is little hope in them getting along productively. --WGFinley (talk) 17:42, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
    I’m happy with your decision. I have no interests in interacting with these two, EVER. If you have time, please carefully review Varsovian’s edits from the time of his sudden appearance last year to understand why. Unfortunately, to understand the problem you have to dig deep into it and analyze everything, even decisions of certain administrators. The only problem I see is that user Chochum7 was sanctioned unfairly. He was never sanctioned or banned before in any way and if you review his history of interaction with user Varsovian you may come to the same conclusion that in his case ban is unnecessary. If anybody needs to get the interaction ban here it is Miacek and his crime-fighting dog who does not come here with "clean hands” ( check his history ) and according to the note of yours may and should be sanctioned for aggressive lobbing for his ally Dr.Dan.--Jacurek (talk) 18:47, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

    Result concerning Varsovian

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    I've asked Sandstein, the admin who made the ban, to take a look and chime in. It's not clear to me if this skirts the AE ban he placed on Varsovian or not. The "diff" provided is spotty, yes he infers that someone is socking but it's not a blatant accusation. --WGFinley (talk) 04:37, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

    1. Varsovian is right, actions directed at him were referenced multiple times in the filing of the Request for Amendment, therefore I believe he is involved in that case and has not violated his ban concerning commenting on AE matters.
    2. Varsovian is not doing himself any favors overcoming a ban on casting aspersions by responding to this AE request by, yes, casting aspersions. Saying you weren't accusing him of using socks but you were referencing "apparent possible off-wiki communication"? Pretty disingenuous. He then continues "how fascinating that a semi-retired user should stumble upon this request". Varsovian seems to have a general disregard for WP:AGF and wants to disregard that portion of his ban. It appears some action is needed there, what type, I will ponder and welcome input.
    3. It seems some type of interaction ban needs to be looked at. --WGFinley (talk) 14:47, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

    Proposed Remedy

    I've had a chance to wade through some of this now and would suggest the following actions:

    1. Varsovian is admonished for making accusations without proof of wrongdoing and participating in an Eastern Europe related discussion in violation of his ban.
    2. Varsovian must get approval from an uninvolved administrator before participating on any dispute resolution or Arbitration board or process, requests can be made on this board.
    3. Varsovian and Dr. Dan on one side and Jacurek and Chumchum7 on the other are now subject to an interaction ban.

    --WGFinley (talk) 22:24, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

    Addendum: I need to look through some diffs still my proposal on the interaction ban is the less than productive interaction above, I welcome other uninvolved admin takes on it. --WGFinley (talk) 17:53, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

    Alexikoua

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning Alexikoua

    User requesting enforcement
    — ZjarriRrethues —  18:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Alexikoua (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Misplaced Pages:ARBMAC#Purpose of Misplaced Pages
    Misplaced Pages:ARBMAC#Decorum
    Misplaced Pages:ARBMAC#Editorial process
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Long-term edit-warring on Himarë
    2. Long-term edit-warring on Qeparo(Alexikoua was edit-warring over whether the name of the village is of Albanian or Greek origin)
    3. Long-term edit-warring on Laskarina Bouboulina and whenever I tried to write a new version using Alexikoua's version and someone else's version as a compromise Alexikoua made comments like
    4. Long-term edit-warring on Ksamil
    5. When I sent him an email reminding him some grammar rules because he was making mistakes I received this message . When he was asked to provide a reference about the alleged Greek ethnicity of a writer born in Albania he replied
      1. deleting sources after taking part in an RSN that ended in favor of the reliability of the source. The user doesn't accept community consensus but follows a wp:own strategy against the consensus.
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warning by ZjarriRrethues (talk · contribs)
    • Latest sanction:
    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
    Indefinite topic ban on all topics and discussions related to Albania and Albanians
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Alexikoua has been involved in many edit-wars the vast majority of which are on Albanians-related topics(as you can see all the long-term edit-warring diffs are from Albanians-related topics), he has been sanctioned for 1 month to 1RR and has also been blocked. I don't want to make lengthy comments about Alexikoua's actions on these articles so I'll just copy/paste comments of other users like one made by a very experienced in Balkans topics administrator Future Perfect At Sunrise (talk · contribs), who has said about Alexikoua's actions on those topics that he is an editor who has hardly ever in all his career on Misplaced Pages made a single edit to any article that was not directly motivated by a single POV agenda (namely, making Albanians look bad and Greeks look good in the struggle over Epirus). Alexikoua has also made some edits that more or less show a pattern of editing like adding on Expulsion of Cham Albanians that the expulsion of this Albanian minority of Greece is related to the Albanian mafia or labeling Albanian troops as tribesmen in an article related to Epirus because to have troops you need a state. Some users who have received similar sanctions and also blocks like Alexikoua may make comments against other users to defend him. A decision should be taken quickly to avoid any kind of disruptive behavior during this AE.--— ZjarriRrethues —  18:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Alexikoua

    Statement by Alexikoua

    Comments by others about the request concerning Alexikoua

    Statement by user Beserks: Alexikoua insists on using falsified sources, see: and (The Official Guide of Himara). Someone had the good idea to superpose GREEK TOPONYMS TO AN ALREADY PUBLISHED ALBANIAN MAP. You can see for yourself by right-clicking with your mouse to "View image" then zoom on page 3 of the PDF Guide of Himara. He also falsified the same source, that on page 5 reads only "Old Kiparo" and not Άνω Κηπαρό/Κάτω Κηπαρό - or at least I didn't find it there (see: ). This is not the first time that some Greek editors falsify the information they submit. See for example The Greeks: the land and people since the war. James Pettifer. Penguin, 2000. This book that shows nothing ] about 200,000 Greeks in Albania is used in different Misplaced Pages pages to document the Greek presence in Albania . Alexikoua also puts into question Halil Inalcik, a great Turkish historian specialized in Ottoman studies (here: )Beserks (talk) 07:01, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

    Result concerning Alexikoua

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    Athenean

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning Athenean

    User requesting enforcement
    — ZjarriRrethues — 19:35, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Athenean (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Misplaced Pages:ARBMAC#Purpose of Misplaced Pages
    Misplaced Pages:ARBMAC#Decorum
    Misplaced Pages:ARBMAC#Editorial process
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Labeling all comments made by Albanian editors as arguments of low quality.
    2. Accusing admin as not impartial because he made a suggestion about the previous dif
    3. Personal attacks against me(although I supported the decision to reduce his sanctions when he was topic banned)
    4. Deleting sourced content from the lead with summary Only an Albanian nationalist would place this in the second sentence of the article.
    5. Deleting sourced content with idontlikeit arguments about the reliability of the source(on RSN it was approved as rs)
    6. Further comments on the author herself that as I have read in some other reports might be considered BLP violations.
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warning byThe Wordsmith (talk · contribs)
    2. Latest sanctions:User talk:Athenean#Sanction notice extended to User talk:Athenean#Banned
    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
    Indefinite topic ban from all topics and discussions related to Albania, Albanians. He had already received a two-week topic ban on Balkans a couple of months ago.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Athenean has received already two times sanctions for his editing behavior in Balkans related articles. The latest that expired was a four-month 1RR and expired about two-weeks ago. I have seen him many times while taking part in discussions with other users who edit the same articles making aggressive comments about the users themselves likeSuch behavior disgusts me, it's called backstabbing in English. I am done with you, and I am withdrawing from your stupid "collaboration" board. Since the sanctions ended he returned to his previous behavior and even when he was warned by The Wordsmith to ease up on the accusations against other users he didn't stop. Some users who have received the same sanctions as Athenean and also blocks may make comments against other users to defend him. A decision should be taken quickly to avoid any kind of disruptive behavior during this AE.--— ZjarriRrethues — 19:35, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Athenean

    Statement by Athenean

    Comments by others about the request concerning Athenean

    Result concerning Athenean

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.