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Revision as of 20:39, 12 October 2010

France Start‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Germany Start‑class High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. This article lacks sufficient references and/or adequate inline citations. Once references have been added, remove the |unref= from this template.

Motivation

For me, the Elisée treaty is an important event because it shows that people that considered each other everlasting enemies can turn to friends within less than a generation.

This is a sign of hope in our time that seems to be sliding towards war.

Sebastian Helm (22 Jan 2003)

Yeah but if two find together others might go to war against that duett...

MatthieuN (27 Sept 2006)

Out of curiosity, where does that come from? "From a French perspective, the relationship with Germany is important as it helps project a Gaullist view of la grande France." That's totaly wrong to say the French perspective is one of a Grande France, what does that mean? France is trying to annex Germany? If no one's against, I'll remove it since since it's a totaly biased and personnal comment, not based of fact. There is also, right above that statement, a "Jacques Delors" lost without sentence nor anything before or after it, so I remove it too until the person having put it can complete the statement.

History right?

Can someone with more historical knowledge than me please have a look at the following paragraph:

The European Confederation was built on the basis of warm ties between all the European Allies in the World War II, but the most important ties were those between the Great Powers of Europe -- French Union, British Empire, Italy, Spain, Sweden and above all, the fragmented population of eighty million Germanophones scattered in five different states in the middle of Europe. The Bavarian and Austrian kingdoms resumed their old traditionally friendly relationships with France following the removal of the League forces in 1949, while the Saxon and Brandenburg republics began to cultivate a reasonably friendly relationship with France out of fear of the Soviet military might in Poland. These four states were too weak to challenge the reestablished status quo in central Europe, and consequently followed the lead of the European League Great Powers in international and European affairs.

To me this looks like someone has mixed up the political situation in Europe pre-WWI and post-WWII. E.g., in 1949, there were no Saxon and Brandenburg republics. -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 15:17, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

but there were saxons peoples... isn't it? I taken those infos on an old review, I'd like very much contributions from Germans users to make more accurate that page, thanks!

PS I refer to the French Union even if that existed only after the War but volountary to evidenciate that at that time when referring to France you mean France and all the colonial empire but there wasn't an official term to describe it, only "France". I tought it should be confusing for someone so I wrote "French Union"

But that is exactly the problem: you obviously don't have a clue about the exact political and historical situation in Europe in the first half of the 20th century, but you present your idosyncratic ideas (like writing "French Union" even if it's called "French Republic"/"Republique Francaise"). How should anyone reading this know that by "Saxon and Brandenburg republics" you mean the "German Democratic Republic" (but which didn't cultivate a friendly relationsship with France, but was part of the Eastern bloc), by "French Union" you mean "France before the war but without colonies" and so on. Really, to me it looks like either being very uninformed, or just vandalism. Reading LeMonde doesn't help here. -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 22:00, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Joint forces

To H1523702: There is in fact a small combined Franco-German elite force since at least mid-1980's ("Deutsch-Französische Brigade", Kehl). -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 15:24, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yeah but what Chirac has in mind will be very different at that time, but it is probable he will wait for the new German elections to proceed, I only hope that whatever he has in mind will erase the shadows of the very stupid decision taken by French in the 1954, if France accepted the German help at that time MAYBE the last 50years of French story wrote on every encyclopaedia of the world could be very different... :-(

User:Bushit 21:24 20 July 2004 CET

I removed "the two countries are collaborating actively for a new joint Franco-German Military force." That is what i was suggesting there is no evidence of (to my knowledge).Mark 19:41, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Alternate History

Hey, I found out what the probleme is! The history part is a copyvio of "" (as it is noted in Misplaced Pages:Cleanup). Now, this explains why there are lot of ahistoricalities and nonsense ideas -- not only because it is a copyvio, but also and especially, because it is a copyvio of an alternate history website, describing an European unification process to an European Confederation that never happened in our thread of history. So, to stop the nonsense, I deleted everything I'm not 100% sure of (that is, most of the article). -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 22:12, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Cleanup Feb 14th 2006

The article looks better to me now. The old version had some UK perceptions in the intro paragraph without explaining what the cooperation is actually about. I think it would be helpful to now also present a documentation what are the motives and rubs in it. Also in regards to where the EU is heading... I guess both a more eleborated history chapter or alliances chapter would serve this. February 24th 2006

map image

I don't see why all the microstates are included on this map (Andorra, Monaco, Lichtenstein, San Marion, Vatican, Macao, Dubai, Sao Tome, the Carribbean, etc.) I don't see what they have to do with the topic of the article, and why if someone went through all the trouble of making a world map, the French overseas departments weren't included (French Guiana, etc.) JesseRafe 07:45, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I think a map of Europe would be adequate and much easier to see. Oberiko 15:45, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

History section

Shouldn't the history section begin somewhat earlier? The contrast between the extreme antagonism between France and Germany from 1870 to 1945 and their friendship since the 1950s is often highlighted and it seems lacking to me not to discuss it in this article. 96T (talk) 16:33, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

There should definitly be a bit about the Weimar Republic and Aristide Briand and Gustav Stresemann. After all the two got the 1926 Nobel Peace Prize.--ospalh (talk) 11:22, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion the history should begin a lot earlier, as is the case with United Kingdom – United States relations. Therefore I have moved a huge chunk of text from French-German enmity into this article. This has more than doubled the article's total size. At some point it may make sense to move part of the material into subarticles that cover individual periods in the French-German relations. French-German is one that already exists.

One problem is that the text I copied here was very obviously originally written by a German. Up to 1870/71 I think it's more or less OK after I rewrote a lot (and it wasn't all that bad to begin with). But the section "World Wars" is very strongly POV and I have marked it with a "POV-check" template until someone (possibly me) gets around to fixing it. Hans Adler 20:39, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

• Start-Class France articles
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• Start-Class Germany articles
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