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Does anyone have this source at hand?

I'll list some sources here, and update it by edits from time to time.

• Kenny, Michael G. (2002), "Toward a Racial Abyss: Eugenics, Wickliffe Draper, and the Origins of The Pioneer Fund", Journal of History of the Behavioral Sciences 38: 259–283

The Flynn Effect and IQ Disparities Among Races

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201008/the-flynn-effect-and-iq-disparities-among-races-ethnicities-and-nations-

There is a very good article about new explanation to difference intelligent between races, based on the Flynn effect. I believe this explanation should be included. 94.159.192.163 (talk) 18:05, 26 September 2010 (UTC) Actually it talked also about the connection between literacy and IQ.94.159.192.163 (talk) 18:14, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I believe it already is included.·Maunus·ƛ· 18:38, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually while there is a section about the Flynn Effect, the claim of this article is NOT included. the section say that we don't know the reason for the Flynn Effect, while this article do suggest some explanation for the Flynn Effect.In fact the article claim that some research show that the Flynn Effect is a product of literacy change. More over the article refer directly to the research that the book "the bell curve" used.It show that the test they used actually tested literacy.

In short the claim of the wikipedia article, "# Since the unknown cause of changes over time cannot be shown to be genetic, it must be environmental.

Therefore, racial differences in intelligence are environmental in origin." doesn't tell the whole story.

It doesn't say anything about the finding of the correlation between literacy and mean IQ.94.159.192.163 (talk) 18:47, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Good point, I definitely think the suggested cause of the flynn effect should be mentioned in the article.·Maunus·ƛ· 18:53, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

The popular article is interesting reading. There are a lot of interesting research projects that have flowed from pondering the Flynn effect. I think the concerns of the kind editor here who has recommended this popular article are somewhat misplaced, however. There really is a direct problem for the hard-hereditarian position on group differences in IQ among "race" groups from the Flynn effect, because the Flynn effect was specifically predicted to be impossible by the authors who were most sure that they had evidence for genetically based racial differences in intelligence. Flynn's path-breaking papers were based on data sets that met specifications set by Arthur Jensen, as (Flynn 1987) makes clear. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 22:45, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Texas Schools Project (TSP) administrative data and the Early Childhood Longitudinal Survey (ECLS)

Evidence that early differences are exacerbated by differences in schooling; later differences correlate more to "between schools" than "between races."

• http://faculty.smu.edu/millimet/classes/eco7321/papers/hanushek%20rivkin%2002.pdf

As a "study" it would be more a primary source were we to quote directly; however, "cited by 49" per

• http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&cites=899602727713123280&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=F6qfTJfvGYKclgfctsXsAg&sa=X&oi=science_links&ct=sl-citedby&resnum=2&ved=0CBoQzgIwAQ

so well worth a direct reading. I strongly recommend that the best approach is to read the original as well as representations of the original. The "secondary source" mantra should not get in the way just because we encyclopedically care more about what is said about what was said rather than what was said in the first place. PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 20:51, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Citation needed for gap decrease

I undid the good-faith delete for now; however, the gap decrease needs to be cited or some other (cited) statement inserted regarding the progression in, and understanding of, the gap—or the delete will need to stand. PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 21:14, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Richard Nisbett, "Race, IQ and Scientism," pp. 50-52 in Steven Fraser, ed., The Bell Curve Wars (New York: HarperCollins, 1995).-- mustihussain (talk) 22:02, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

This doesn't look like a good source for this - here is the set of pages from your citation , and it does not address the size of the decrease that is uncited in the article. On page 50 it mentions (in a quote from The Bell Curve) that the gap has narrowed by .15-.25 standard deviations, but in the article it says "the difference has shrunk from about 1.2 to about 0.8 standard deviations", which is a difference of 0.4. I'll take a look at Weiji's suggestions soon. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 23:04, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Here are a couple of sources. Hunt and Carlson notes this too.

• Kaufman, Alan S. (2009). IQ Testing 101. New York: Springer Publishing. pp. 151–153. ISBN 978-0-8261-0629-2. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |laydate= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |laysummary= ignored (help)

• Weiss, Lawrence G.; Saklofske, Donald H.; Coalson, Diane; Raiford, Susan, eds. (2010). WAIS-IV Clinical Use and Interpretation: Scientist-Practitioner Perspectives. Practical Resources for the Mental Health Professional. Alan S. Kaufman (Foreword). Amsterdam: Academic Press. ISBN 978-0-12-375035-8. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |laydate= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |laysummary= ignored (help) -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 22:34, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

The Kaufman source also does not mention anything about the difference having "shrunk from 1.2 to about 0.8 standard deviations." The Weiss source has no page numbers and is a fairly large volume, do you have page numbers handy for the specific data in the article? (Preferably a quote from it actually, since the book does not appear to be browsable at Google Books) -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 00:19, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

As I've noted before, the WAIS-IV book reports the b-w gap as 14.54 points in the 2008 standardization sample. This certainly does not support Flynn and Dickens' claims.--Victor Chmara (talk) 09:08, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

This is pure OR. Please stick to reliable sourcing. aprock (talk) 21:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

What about Nisbett's new book, "intelligence and how to get it”? according to a book review in new york times the gap is now 9.5 points among 12-year-olds.-- mustihussain (talk) 00:56, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Gaps differ by age; one age can't be taken as fully representative, that's why we need a proper citation for the statement regarding the overall gap or need to craft something else that we can properly cite. PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 01:58, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Gaps also differ by brand of IQ test, and in any event IQ points are not measurement units (nor are the standard deviation units used to derive IQ standard scoring). There are also cohort effects to consider. That's why it's encyclopedic and fair to the sources to say that there is a gap (there is, at the moment) and that the gap has been generally decreasing, but not to specify the size of the gap with much exactitude in the lede. And of course the article text, probably beginning right from the lede, has to make clear that both the significance and the cause of the gap are matters of considerable dispute. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 18:22, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Race and Intelligence documentary

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb9i7a_race-and-intelligence-1-7_school

I believe this video should be included in the External links.Oren.tal (talk) 15:08, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't think so. It's weak.--Victor Chmara (talk) 15:19, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

why do you think so?Oren.tal (talk) 15:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not in the business of providing links to Dailymotion. What is the authorized original source of the video with no copyright violation? -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 18:18, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

well, it is channel 4 documentary about the issue. so that is why I think it should be included.Oren.tal (talk) 18:29, 27 September 2010 (UTC) http://www.channel4.com/programmes/race-and-intelligence-sciences-last-taboo

I think the channel four documentary is probably a good external link - but it should be to the channel4 website not to a videosharing website where the content may be illegal or the link may break.·Maunus·ƛ· 18:35, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

If the article is going to include external links, I think some of the old links it used to have should be considered. I found these in a version of the article from around the time of mediation, but they've disappeared for some reason since then.

Collective statements

• APA Task Force Examines the Knowns and Unknowns of Intelligence
• Statement on "Race" and Intelligence. American Anthropological Association. Adopted December 1994.
• Mainstream Science on Intelligence. Intelligence, v24 n1 p. 13–23 January–February 1997

Review papers

• James Flynn and Charles Murray debate – news summary
• June 2005 issue of Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, Vol. 11, No. 2.
• Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability J. Philippe Rushton & Arthur R. Jensen
• There Are No Public-Policy Implications Robert J. Sternberg
• What if the Hereditarian Hypothesis is True? Linda S. Gottfredson
• Heredity, Environment, and Race Differences in IQ Richard E. Nisbett
• The Cultural Malleability of Intelligence and Its Impact on the Racial/Ethnic Hierarchy Lisa Suzuki & Joshua Aronson
• Wanted: More Race Realism, Less Moralistic Fallacy J. Philippe Rushton & Arthur R. Jensen
• Race, Genetics and IQ Richard E. Nisbett (PDF)
• The Inequality Taboo Charles Murray archived version
• Race and IQ: A Theory-Based Review of the Research in Richard Nisbett’s Intelligence and How to Get It J. Philippe Rushton & Arthur R. Jensen

Might not want to re-include all of them, but I think they're at least more relevant than a TV documentary.

In general I think that including documentaries is a pretty bad idea. In an area of legitimate science a documentary looks pretty pathetic next to actual published research. I can't count how many times I've seen paleontology documentaries completely dumbing down and misrepresenting the topic - sometimes not even intentionally. This happens all the time with science documentaries directed at the general public, so I think it's best to keep them out of the article regardless of the perspective that they take. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 19:34, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the Flynn & Murray debate should be included in External Links. It's a rather informative discussion between two prominent scholars in the field.--Victor Chmara (talk) 11:56, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the texts should be in the sources - not in the external links.·Maunus·ƛ· 12:08, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Removal of link

See . Exactly what policy prevents linking to a related article? If there are any problems with sources in the other aricles it should be noted there but that numerous peer-reviewed articles have cited and used the IQ scores establishes notability and some academic acceptance.Miradre (talk) 18:58, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Geographic ancestry section

   Sorry-- I'm new at this and my ref tags got messed up. Removed the stuff recently added by full shunyata because we can't cite wikipedia directly, and the other stuff I removed looks like synth because its cited to papers that aren't discussing Lynn's conclusions. -SightWatcher (talk) 01:53, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

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