Misplaced Pages

news requests

Hey 172, I've seen you around previously, on the George Kennan page especially, where you did a bang-up job. Looking at your userpage, I thought you might like to know about the Misplaced Pages:Newspapers and magazines request service. I try to keep an eye on it, although there's not too much activity at the moment. It also occurs to me that we have somewhat overlapping interest areas here on Misplaced Pages. Hope to see you around. All the best. <nowiki></nowiki>&mdash;] 16:11, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Command Economy

Hey, awesome job with the command economy article. I thought I was going to have to redo the entire article and take all of that rambling out. Your edits were really precise and clear. I really appreciate the great work you do.

Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_adminship/Halibutt

I think you may be interested in this nomination. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:04, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

BTW, you might want to archive some of your talk page, it's currently 141kb long....

Human rights in Belarus

Hi, I noticed you put a NPOV tag on this article. I'm the one who created it, I noticed you know quite a bit about Russian history. If you've got a moment, would you mind telling me what's POV about it, and maybe I can change a few things in it? Thanks. :) I just want to know what it is that needs to go and I'll rewrite it, since I didn't really intend to write a non-npov article...XYaAsehShalomX 09:45, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Sean Black RfA

Thank you very much for your support of my RfA. Thanks, in part, to you, I am now an Administrator, and I pledge to use my newfound powers for good rather than evil. Thanks again!--Sean|Black 08:00, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

hey

Don't worry about it. Do keep me posted on what you are up to, I often can't follow everything going on here, but would like to know, Slrubenstein | ] 20:08, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

List of modern day dictators

Has it been considered to create List of heads of government described as totalitarian, List of heads of government who ruled by decree, List of heads of government who suspended the constitution and the like, and to have "List of dictators" link only to these lists? Gazpacho 21:10, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

The proposed spin-offs mentioned above are much worse, actually. The problem is that in all but the most obvious cases historians are always disagreeing on the nature and scope of the authority of just about any individual leaders or regime. By making any of the above proposed classifications, Misplaced Pages editors wind up arbitrating between professional historians who spend their entire lives specializing in the study of any of the regimes listed but disagree on these matters themselves. So, the judgment one way or other (whether or not to include one leader or another) is inherent original research. 172 21:21, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Can you give an example where historians disagree about whether a leader suspended the constitution? Gazpacho 22:44, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

After reviewing Enabling Act I can see what you mean, but I still believe it is possible to have such lists where there is a clear paper trail (e.g. the enabling act quite explicitly allowed Hitler to rule by decree). Gazpacho 00:24, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

What a miserable trainwreck the AfD discussion has become. If only someone other than juicifer had raised the issue. Gazpacho 10:36, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your appreciative comments and for taking the time to write them. I do think of Misplaced Pages as one of the great experiments in the history of civilization, and, aside from the fact that I find it fascinating and pleasurable (although occasionally stressful and also sometimes conflicting with my job and various other intellectual projects) to participate, I sometimes do think of myself as having almost a kind of moral obligation to do so. I will check out the article you mentioned. Jeremy J. Shapiro 00:01, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

ArbCom case: community vs AndriyK

Hi 172, I thought you might be interested in following this ArbCom case Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration#Community_vs._User:AndriyK even if you have no intention on getting involved. Regards, --Irpen 09:11, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

List of Dictators

Agreed, voted to delete per POV policy. Stirling Newberry 15:59, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Case closed

The arbitration committee has reached a final decision in the Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Silverback case. Raul654 06:06, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Hey,

This isn't your cup of tea, but as an independent academic you might want to keep an eye on Prince Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence. User:DreamGuy is assing around again deleting links he does not want to have, or rather ensuring that only his article is linked to the section on the Jack the Ripper rumours that swamped Albert Victor. A second article also discusses the topic in the context of royal myths and legends. He has been trying for months to get the other article deleted so that the only article that covers the topic is his own pet one. Every attempt he has made to get things his way has been met with silence by everyone. Even his merge attempt got a grand total of himself participating. Since all his other attempts have failed he now tries to delete any reference to the other article in the Prince Albert Victor page. Of the fun of people like DreamGuy and their agenda, eh! FearÉIREANN 19:39, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

New Deal

172 you should take a look at New Deal someone's been adding some rather dubious stuff to it over the last day or two. G-Man 21:30, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Yet another humanist

Please see Talk:Vladimir Lenin (and "Lenin" history). It looks like we are about to have yet another humanist on crusade to call people "ruthless murderers" in articles. YOu have a much better eloquence than me to explain that this is not how encyclopedia is written. mikka (t) 17:27, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

ArbCom'd

well no luck with Dav. dunno if i should just forget the appeal. i don't know how these things work and if you don't have much a chance for success if both parties can't agree.

i think i should be able to though since i probably wouldn't've gotten the ban i got if you hadn't been my archeditwarenemy #1 for like 5 years. in a way it seems like your input should be worth the most since we had a lotta edit wars since i first got here in summer 2004.

anyway any input'd be appreciated. i won't be bummed if i can't do this, even though i do think my work on Henry Kissinger deserves a Wiki Pulitzer. Dr. Trey 07:37, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

List of White supremacists

You might be interested to know that I've nominated List of White supremacists for deletion. Mackensen (talk) 23:21, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of modern day dictators

Hi. I just wanted to comment on something you said (after the debate was closed, for which you get a minor slap on the wrist). You said, ... minority of users getting away with voting NPOV ... on a technicality. As of now the deletes are at 60% instead of the needed 67%. This was not a vote, it was a discussion trying to achieve Consensus. This is no strict definition of what consensus is, and there is certainly no pre-defined percentage of votes which must be achieved. All that being said, if you feel that an error was made here, we've got a procedure for that. You can ask for a deletion review. --RoySmith 14:55, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Merging dictator lists

Please comment, if you would, on the proposal at Talk:List of modern day dictators to merge into List of dictators. Gazpacho 21:06, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Mailing list

I've started a mailing list to discuss the bias against progressives on Misplaced Pages, among other topics - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/redfaction . If you want the e-mail address hidden to all except the moderator (me), make sure that option is checked. While I'd love it if this list took off, it will probably mostly be me sending off an e-mail once a month about the latest travesty (I still can't get over how Jimbo appointed JayJG to ArbCom).

I have been too busy with real life stuff to be too involved in Misplaced Pages recently. I have been researching for wiki articles, even going to libraries, but I am publishing those articles like this one or this one on other wikis. They usually take me over a month to write (after work). I wouldn't even say they're that good - the narrative is horrible, I just try to get all the dates and facts straight, with two or more sources for most everything. Then I try to focus more on classes than individuals. I should also add that it's rather difficult to track down some of these things, such as what year the Huks in the Philippines stopped fighting. I still don't have an answer to that, different sources give different dates, I have a feeling it just petered out instead of coming to a complete stop. Anyhow, sign up to my list to hear my monthly rant about this or that. Ruy Lopez 23:12, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Comment on dictators & its afd

Hi 172, I wanted to respond to a comment you left me at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of modern day dictators, that I didn't get a chance to respond to (I've been editing rather irregularly lately). I'll reproduce it here:

No reason has been offered? Regarding whether or not the list is crucial to coverage of the topic, see Jeremmy Shapiro's comments explaining how the list probably serves more to give a misleading picture of political reality than it reveals. Further, Jtdirl, Wizzy, Colipon, John Kenney and I, along with a handful of other editors here, I have provided a plethora of examples of leaders who fall into a gray area, and thus either way their inclusion or exclusion here is on the basis of the POV judgment calls of individual Misplaced Pages editors. If you do not remember a reason for deletion being stated, you need to take another look at the discussion threads. On a personal note, I have come across your work on articles related to the Federalist Papers; so, I know that you are quite a bright student of political science and political thought. Given your level of sophistication, I expect that you will be able to understand some of our concerns. 172 04:49, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

I've looked at Jeremy's comment and I do agree with some of his concerns. Also, looking at the disputed page itself, I see that it's a long way from where I would like: particularly, people are spending a lot of time "coming up with a definition" of dictator to govern inclusion, which seems like an obvious instance of original research. The question to ask seems not to be "does this person meet some (arbitrary) standard that Wikipedians have established" but rather "does the bulk of the academic/ scholarly/ media/ other reputable sources describe this person as a dictator." Judgment calls will of course in the end be required, but I think our general resolution mechanisms will be up to handling them, and (importantly) I think we will be able to inform these judgments largely with established research and commentary rather than the general opinions of editors. I don't see the page as hopeless, and I've been surprised in the past by pages that seemed doomed to endless controversy and managed to recover.

Also, part of my reason for keeping the page is the shabby treatment at dictatorship and dictator of the subject. Proper coverage of the concept seems to require the analysis of a fair number of actual cases. Right now the best coverage along those lines seems to be provided by the list, which at least links to many elucidating examples. Improvement of the main pages could perhaps obviate this benefit of the list, but for now I don't think we are in that state. (On another note, those two pages should perhaps be merged.) I apologize for commenting that no reason for deletion had been offered; what I meant to say was that no reason had been offered that I found compelling. While it was argued by a number of people that the article was inherently POV, it seems to me that the article's problems are not irreparable and that eventually this material could form a valuable part of Misplaced Pages. Cheers, Christopher Parham (talk) 20:54, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Economic fascism

There is an ongoing attempt to define state intervention in the economy as inherently fascist through the creation of an article entitled economic fascism. I have started an AfD on that article based on the argument that "economic fascism" is (a) too vague to ever be properly defined and (b) an inherently POV term of abuse which will cause eternal edit wars, and the observation that the subject of economic policy in fascist regimes is already covered in a multitude of other articles, including fascism itself and corporatism. Please consider voting or commenting on the AfD. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 23:01, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

List of modern dictators

Sorry, the AfD had been closed by the time I had a chance to look at it. Jayjg 00:02, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

F-bomb about the AFD vote. Perhaps when there's more evidence of the retarded and intractable edit wars that will no doubt ensue on that page it can be brought up for AFD again. All the best. —thames 05:11, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Hiya 172. It might not be up your street but (literally!) lol but the St. John Lateran is located at the Italian version of its name, thanks to a four person vote in April, even though English speakers worldwide (except in the US) don't use the Italian version of the name. I've proposed a vote to move the page back to its original location. It is at Talk:Basilica di San Giovanni in Laterano. Please drop in and vote. FearÉIREANN\ 05:36, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Plínio Salgado.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Plínio Salgado.jpg. I notice the image page currently doesn't specify who created the image, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created the image yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the image on Misplaced Pages (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the image yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the image also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture then you can use {{GFDL}} to release it under the GFDL. If you can claim fair use use {{fairusein|article name}} or {{fairuse}}. See Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other images, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of image pages you have edited by going to "Your contributions" from your user page and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thanks so much. --Pak21 13:04, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Mesoeconomics

I felt it bad form to add the first reference, but once it existed I had no trouble adding the beginnings of an article. Stirling Newberry 16:13, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Economic fascism 2

DO NOT edit a closed AFD, my notes where to clarify my thoughts when closing the AFD and should not be edited just as you would not edit a user's statement on a talk page. If you continue you may be blocked as editing a closed AFD page can qualify as vandalism. Jtkiefer ---- 20:53, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Also if you would not mind please respond on my talk page why you felt it was appropriate to both modify a closed AFD as well as modifying another user's (in this case the closing administrator's) comments. I am at the moment assuming that this was some sort of misunderstanding and am assuming good faith however any clarification on this would be nice. Jtkiefer ---- 21:01, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

172, also if you would like the article to be redirected attempt to get a consensus on the talk page to do so. I like all people support being bold in certain situations but doing so without a consensus is against policy and is going to just lead to an edit war which should be avoided if at all possible. Jtkiefer ---- 20:56, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Ghirlandajo

I'd appreciate it if you could take a look at this case. I am afraid Ghirlandajo is trying to create a rift between Polish and Russian editors, and if he is unchecked, it may damage all of the good will that we have been able to work out through our previous collaborations.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I see that despite my reiterated requests to the contrary, Piotrus continues to recruit supporters for his anti-Ghirlandajo crusade. 172, thanks for calling me a "potential asset" to the Misplaced Pages after I have made more edits in my 9 months of editing than Halibutt has done in 2 years of his. Nevertheless, I would like to point out that your assumption that Piotrus and Halibutt are "exceedingly tolerent toward users with other perspectives, and consistently polite and friendly" is wrong. Calling me a "vodka pisser" and racist, as practiced by Halibutt, is neither polite nor friendly. If my comments were not always exmplary, I brought my good-willed apologies to Mr Halibutt on *three* occasions, the last time just five days ago (see his talk page), and every time he bit the hand that I extended towards him, openly presuming my bad faith and preaching me in a judgmental tone: "You can call it some sort of personal probation if you please". After that, not only did he maintain a confrontational tone, but advised me to reconsider my membership in this wikipedia. What is particularly sad, he refuses not only to apologize but even to acknowledge numerous insults and personal attacks directed to me: "No, Ghirlandajo, we were not both bad tempered. You were. Accusing me of insults when there were none will not change that". Having said that, the only person who refuses to co-operate there is Mr Halibutt, and I have nothing to learn from him, contrary to your advises. --Ghirlandajo 09:46, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Tnx for your comment. You can see above what we have to deal with. Ghirlandajo has now accussed me of spamming (again). :/ In other news: Could you consider adding the Misplaced Pages:Babel template to your userpage? It is very helpful in case translators are needed and such.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:15, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Patria Y Libertad

Do you have any insight on this AfD? Gazpacho 01:37, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Proposal for moderating the Edit war on Communism

Hi, the recent edit war in Communism has been very draining. I would like your support in an effort to moderate that war. I made a proposal for moderating the edit war in a section by that name in the discussion page of Communism. I'm hoping that you will add your name to it. (BostonMA 19:08, 13 December 2005 (UTC))

Your comments would be welcome at Prime Minister. One user, without even bothering to go through the proper procedures, wants to rename the article Prime minister and keeps moving it to push that version!!! While there is an article for all uppercasing or all lowercasing, half-casing (which is all WP allows, as all lowercasing is not possible in article titles) would produce a semi-literate mess that would make WP a laughing stock. A student who writes the title that way in an essay earns an instant fail because it is seen as such a monumental clanger. With all the attacks WP is under right now, the last thing WP needs is to make it look as though it does not know how to write the title of the office of premier correctly. What next? Lord mayor? United states? FearÉIREANN\ 23:29, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Request for arbitration against User:RJII

I opened a RFAr against RJII for POV pushing, incivility, and refusal to take the RFC process seriously. If you would like to join it, feel free to do so. Firebug 18:41, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't know if it is of interest to you, but on Misplaced Pages:Templates for deletion there is a vote to delete a template called behave. It is designed to deal with kiddie vandalism and works excellently, but by the usual WP mob are trying to delete it. (I'm all in favour of deletions of unencyclopædic content but the scale of deletions on WP is out of control. I'm on the brink of quitting WP at this stage I am so fed up of it. WP has gone to the dogs IMHO.) FearÉIREANN\ 23:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Partitions of Poland

Would you take a look at talk:Partitions of Poland#Discussion. We are discussing a possible change of the name of the article there and I believe that a view from non-Polish perspective would be helpful. --Wojsyl 21:06, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Heya 172

Good to see you around again! - Ta bu shi da yu 21:18, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

ADL and LaRouchies

As an Australian I don't know much about the American ADL (I've had a fair bit to do with the local affiliate), but I will support any effort to get rid of Herschelkrustofsky and other LaRouchy wreckers.

While I'm here I feel I should warn you that someone has been impersonating you at various articles relating to North Korea, inserting gross pro-Communist POV and preventing any critical comment on the grotesque Kim dynasty. This doppel-172 does not seem to have been active lately but you ought to be watchful in case he comes back - as I am being. Adam 09:53, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

What a statesmanlike view to take. If only everyone conceded at once that "it is increasingly clear that your point of view was correct all along", Misplaced Pages would be a much happier place. I shall have this noble sentiment framed and mounted. Adam 11:10, 22 December 2005 (UTC) (PS please archive your Talk page)

ADL

Hey, thanks for helping out on the Saddam article.

Taking a look, it seems that all of the links provided that mention the spying on the ANC come from sites with a strong anti-ADL bias. That said, if anyone can find a more moderate source, I don't see why it can't be mentioned, as it does give both sides of the issue. I'm sure you would not want to censor (properly referenced) US ties with nasty rightist dictators, am I wrong? CJK 16:59, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

If its properly cited, I don't see why it can't be mentioned briefly. Of course, if we were talking about a photo that showed the ADL and South African government individuals collaborating (in an article about Apartheid) it would be a play on emotions and uncalled for. But right now, it doesn't seem terribly out of place or POV. CJK 00:47, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank You

Thank you for your support back there, that guy was really getting annoying. CJK 22:39, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I think its interesting that all I had to do to provoke his "outrage" about my "denial" was to change exactly one word on Philippine-American War. There was no other current content dispute. Thanks for helping there too, BTW CJK 23:35, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

history bug

Just about the history thing, I've experienced it myself before. In fact, I submitted a bug report to BugZilla about it - the other time it was concerning vandalism with Tookie (which is now a redirect), and I was prevented from reverting that article for a long while, until someone else reverted it. -- Natalinasmpf 06:24, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

RFAr against KDRGibby

Following his rejection of mediation (twice), I have decided that I will file an arbitration request. I am busy formalising the list of parties involved. Do you wish to involve yourself as a complaining party? -- Natalinasmpf 07:27, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Request for comment

It may not be up your alley, but very few people have came through RfC I posted about History of the World, and there is a slow but pointless revert war there (see Talk:History_of_the_World#Graph_straw_poll), so I am now down to asking fellow Wikipedians to take a look if you have time and will.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:59, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi mate,

Your assistance is required again. (sorry!) You may remember the war on styles that was waged some time ago and the eventual compromise reached. A series of templates were created to enable users to warn other users who attempt to reinsert styles into articles that that is no longer WP policy. However a user who is trying to get a whole series of templates deleted has nominated them on the WP:TFD for deletion. I am thoroughly fed up having to defend necessary templates from the minority of deletion police on WP who seem to act as a group: one nominates, then the rest all vote to agree with them. All help to defend the necessary templates in the styles series gratefully received. Thanks. FearÉIREANN\ 18:59, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. I am so utterly frustrated with the farce that is the WP:TFD mess. It is so obvious that 90%+ of nominations are based on ignorance of the template, and those who vote rarely have an idea what they are voting on. I have always been in favour of some deletions on WP but that this stage the scale of deletions of good stuff is breathtaking. It has led me to seriously question whether I want to stay on WP. I have spent so long trying to fix things, as have others, only to find our fixes, even though they may have an overwhelming consensus behind them, get wrecked or deleted by a small minority of deletion police who clearly don't know what they are doing. WP is in danger of destroying its own credibility through low standards of contribution and through the attacking of those who try to bring it up to professional encyclopædic standards. I don't know how long more I will have the stomach for defending professional standards against attack from those who don't think standards matter, just their own game playing. It is obvious that the lack of professional control and proper procedure is doing untold damage to WP. FearÉIREANN\ 19:20, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I've just discovered that the guy making the nominations, not content with nominating templates, had been sneaking through others deleting them. Outrageous! FearÉIREANN\ 19:44, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Happy New Year, 172! Thanks for not leaving Misplaced Pages! . --Irpen

Happy New Year, my friend. --Neutrality 07:43, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

thanks!

Thanks for the alert, 172. I was unaware of that case but had strongh suspicions about Neto's behaviour already. Now that I am aware of it I will make sure the arbcom ruling is enforced. (I have blocked him for breaching the one-revert-per-article-per-day ruling.) FearÉIREANN\ 15:05, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Hello

Hey 172, could I have your input on a dispute I am having with Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters on List of Dictators? Lulu wants to imply that Cuba has had multi-party elections since 1976 just because Elections in Cuba says so. However, checking the page history shows that relevant information was removed the other day by a pro-Castro vandal. I restored it, but Lulu refuses to give up and is accusing me of, what I believe is, a frivolous 3RR violation while ignoring my comments on talk and elsewhere (but having enough time to complain about my "rantings". A response would be appreciated. CJK 19:44, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi,

I've opened a WP:RFA against Netoholic for two threats he made against me on my talk page and his. FearÉIREANN\ 22:14, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Military history of the Soviet Union

I think you are more qualified than myself in deciding whether this deletion of the phrase needs to be addressed since it was you, who wrote it. I just get extra alert when pieces are deleted from FA's. Cheers, --Irpen 06:27, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, if this seems acceptable to you, I will leave it as it is. Thanks, --Irpen 00:28, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

possible request for comment

I am inclined to let it slide because I think I am dealing with a nut-case. But do you consider this (the last sentence) an anti-Semitic threat? Slrubenstein | Talk 19:54, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, will do, Slrubenstein | Talk 20:46, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

please consider this Slrubenstein | Talk 23:20, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

COTW

Would you be willing to support my nominee for WP:COTW. The article is Invasion which is an important term for military knowledge. The current article however isn't at the same standard as the term is in modern and historic warfare though. If you'll be willing to support, I'll be greatful. Thanks RENTASTRAWBERRY röck 00:43, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Hello again!

I've just read through the topic "cold war" in your discussion list, which seem to be about a guy who uses several nicknames and IPs. But you probably remember that it's me who wrote the "extra" on the cold war article, and I can assure of that I am not in to that sort of stuff; this time - it wasn't him...

PS! Have you seen my comment on your complaint of my article? PPS! I now got my own account...

V.V.

time to put and end to comandante

I copied what I wrote to here. I've never written an RFC before so hopefully you can help me with it. Thanks--Antispammer 01:28, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

My Request for Adminship

Hi, many thanks for voting in my RfA, I got it! :) If you need anything, just give me a shout. - FrancisTyers 00:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Comandante RFC

I would be glad to contribute. Yet...

Yet, there simply has to be a better way of getting him banned. RFCs do nothing alone. It will simply lie there for days until someone takes it to ArbCom. then if the case is accepted it will sit there for months as the ArbCom takes agonizingly long amounts of time to examine evidence, propose decisions, and vote. Then when we might get a sufficient verdict, it leaves the possibility that Comandante will keep inventing new accounts. Meanwhile, countless numbers of articles will be vandalized to the inconvenience of all.

RFCs are supposed to be launched against semi-respectable people who can make a case. Comandante will not, and he is barely above the status as vandal. Take a look as this. As of now, out of 720 edits, Comandante has made fifteen to talk pages since April 25, 2004, three only recently and under threat.

We are simply playing into his hands right now as he will delay and delay as long as possible. Thus, a faster means, such as reporting him in as a vandal or something else, is urgently needed. CJK 02:44, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

• Related to Fidel Castro, so I'm hopping in. I'm not saying you don't have valid points on talk, but I'm tired of it. I spent a solid day on vandalism patrol, and came across this article the same way. In spite of all that, please don't edit/strike others comments. I yelled at Ed when he did the same thing ages ago. Bitch. Moan. Report me. Rail against the prick I'm being, but please don't edit my comments. I've just reached my limit on Fidel Wikibofh_(talk) 03:14, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Hopefuly, the article dosen't further degenrate into a propaganda vehicle for the Miami millionaires who wish to become the dictators of Cuba once more. El_C 03:23, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Wikibofh, this ^^^ is the type of shit you have just opened the doors to.--Antispammer 03:26, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

See what I mean, 172? El_C 03:29, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

• I haven't brought up the issue that there is no discussion in the article of the following:

Amongst the wedding presents received was a substantial gift (US$500) from Batista, who by then was both a retired President and dictator with the rank of former general in the Cuban army.

Just struck me as ironic. *sigh* Wikibofh_(talk) 03:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

• • At least we're bitching on 172's talk page instead of in article space. In the immortal words of Dennis Miller, we're going to "pick a hole". Wikibofh_(talk) 03:31, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Of course, when I do this they're happy, but otherwise, "shit" and other expeltives are the order of the day. Ignoring sources, and so on. El_C 03:29, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

• It's just because you have it in for "Ben Z". You're in the anti "Ben Z" cabal. Nice of you to finally admit it. Wikibofh_(talk) 03:34, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Is that addressed to me? If so, I don't know what that is. El_C 03:37, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

• Yes it was addressed to you.  :) Look at your diff. It shows you reverting out the sentence "Ben Z. is the best."  :) Note the liberal use of smileys on this sentence. :) Wikibofh_(talk) 03:50, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, okay. Maybe he is the best, one never truly knows. Erm, I'll try to be less bitter for the moment being. ;) El_C 03:54, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Btw, Dennis Miller is okay, but Bill Hicks is the "shit"! El_C 03:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

• Taken under advisement. I will try to see if I can find some of his stuff. I'm also partial to Lewis Black and meaningless conversations on 172's page.  :) BTW: The Miller quote is a partial portion of this. I use it for indicating when decisive action is more important than what the action is. Wikibofh_(talk) 04:06, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Umm... did you think of alerting Comandante about his RfC? I didn't really see any mention of it to him. Thanks. --LV 20:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

hopefully it sent this time

--Antispammer 15:11, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Rfa thanks

Stalin

On the Joeseph Stalin article, someone wants to distance Stalin from the purges along with some other stuff I don't have a serious problem with (mostly). Since I don't have much knowledge of the Great Purge, perhaps you can say whether or not this is called for? CJK 21:33, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Alex Bakharev

Please take a look. It seems there that the raging russophobia of some is the only reason of the attempts to derail the candidacy of one of the most worthy people for the job. That's of course just my opinion but I appreciate your taking a look. --Irpen 06:55, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

ArbCom Vote

Hi 172,

As per your opposition vote to my ArbCom candidacy due to the lack of questions, I've elaborated on my statement and explanation at the questions page. I welcome any further questions to be asked to clarify any of your doubts, and let me know on my talkpage if it's urgent. Thank you for your interest! :)

- Best regards, Mailer Diablo 02:50, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Holodomor

I read your statement at talk and saw your edits. It is an extremely difficult article. I see your point though. Some friendly criticism of politicizing of Holodomor may be found at John-Paul Himka, "War Criminality: A Blank Spot in the Collective Memory of the Ukrainian Diaspora", from Significance of the Second World War for establishing of state symbols and collective cultural memory in Central-Eastern Europe, International conference, Lviv, 2003 (also available online at Spaces of Identity, Vol. 5, pp. 9-24, ISSN 1496-6778).

OTOH, Andrew Alexander edits this article from a very attached and personal POV while he tries to bring in much factual information at the same time. I kind of gave up on that article for now. With Mikka's loosing his heart in general, I would more than welcome if you join this discussion from the Western academic perspective. If you have time for that, I will try to return to the article too. Regards, --Irpen 04:22, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

I would like to express my thanks to all the good people who spent their valuable time time and effort working on my (failed) RfA voting. Especially for those who actually voted to support me :). You put a great effort into it, it was me who mixed up everything. Lets move on and make together our Misplaced Pages an even greater place abakharev 09:45, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

KDRGibby

The request for arbitration concerning this user has been filed at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration#KDRGibby. Elle _{vécut heureuse} (Be eudaimonic!) 10:43, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Belated thanks

I now have a few extra tabs at the top of my Misplaced Pages pages. Thanks for your comments on my RfA. One needs critics as well as friends, but better still, one needs a critical friend. To that end, if I come across a sticky situation, I hope you will not mind if I ask your advice; and if you see me do something questionable, I would appreciate your letting me know. Banno 08:18, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!

MAUP etc.

Since this is not directly related to the article any more, let me respond here. As for Ukraine, I'm confident that you are very much aware of how complex the situation is in the country. Similarly to Russia, the way of conducting historic research is still much biased by how it's been done in the past. And I'm sure that you know that history as a discipline in the Soviet Union was very different to the Western standards. It can take years to change it, but the first changes are already happening. Still, one has to remember that the Orange Revolution happened just a year ago, and nobody knows what the coming parliamentary elections will bring. As I think I said before, level of nationalisms is often unpleasantly high in the countries that won their independence recently. Ukraine is not an exception here. Then there's a push towards market economy, which could also mean promoting private institutions, including education. Finally, the government administration also takes years to change its habits. All these and more make the MAUP problem not as straightforward as it might seem. this however should not eclipse the fact that there are more and more talented young historians in the Ukraine without neither strong Soviet nor nationalistic bias and we should keep our fingers crossed for their progress. If you have not done it before I would recommend reading the Kulchytsky's article, which puts things in a quite true perspective. And no, I'm not a leading scholar in my country and I'm not a Ukrainian either. --_Lysy 21:43, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Please allow me to jump in. This is mostly to respond to Lysy. His statement about the level of nationalism in Ukraine being "unpleasantly high" shows how little the writer is familiar with the particular issue. Yes, the UA nationalism is as aggressive as any nationalism but it is not at all high in Ukraine. Nationalist ideology is on the fringe there and the results of the recent presidential election, if anything else, shows it very well. The politician with proven track record and without any significant allegations (Yushchenko) won only with a rather small margin over a convicted criminal (Yanukovych) only because Yushchenko's opponents manage to paint him a Ukrainian nationalist (largely unjustly). This was enough to significantly weaken his campaign to a degree when his victory was measured in single digits only and had the pro-Kuchma block picked someone else instead of a candidate with two criminal convictions, the former prime-minister (Yushchenko) who actually paid off the pensions debts the state owed to retirees, salaries to teachers and doctors and filled the state coffers by clamping down on the economic crime would have lost the election. This, if anything, shows that it is rather unpopular in Ukrain to be a nationalist.

Here, at en-wiki a very small percentage of Ukrainian editors subscribe to the nationalist ideas, which usually come together with fervent Russophobia. Andrew Alexander is rather atypical in this respect and there are only a handful of others in Misplaced Pages with similar views.

As for the "traditionalist bias", as 172 also said, the place to fight it is not an encyclopedia, which summarizes the scholarly work but the scholarly works themselves.

Finally, I would like to thank the editors with an extensive academic background in history for taking on this article. This includes both of you. Regards, --Irpen 07:39, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. I did restore Holodomor. May I ask you to help with this article? So far a large part of the debate there was among Ukrainian nationalists and Stalin apologists and what the article needs really are people with a good professional background in history and free of ideological agendas, just like yourself. I consider myself also free from ideological agendas but history and politics is rather a hobby of mine since my professional background is science and engineering.

I was unpleasantly surprised to see Ultramarine to roam into the article. I've seen that fellow before as well as his arbitration. The guy is a huge pain in the neck.

Finally, I would like to add to what I wrote to you earlier about the situation in Ukraine. People in the west tend to get a wrong impression when reports about MAUP surface here. The truth is that MAUP within Ukraine itself is in total obscurity and gets to public attention only when the reports like the one you referred to make its way to the media. No one in Ukraine ever hear about MAUP no matter how much clout it boasts at its web-site, that is until they get involved in another scandal. Similarly, there was or may still be an ultranationalist member of parliament named Tiahnybok. His only clam to fame was the outrage from his statements like "Ukraine for Ukrainians" and that "1917 Revolution was a Russo-Jewish conspiracy". This received much more attention from the media that a little notice announcement that he was expelled from the parliamentary faction by Yushchenko, a faction leader at that time. --Irpen 21:14, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Recent news came out and a short analysis that the influence of radical xenophobes in Ukrainian politics should not be overestimated. Also see . While the Ukrainian nationalism within Ukraine itself is rather on the fringe, the judophobia is on the fringe even within this nationalism itself. Days were all evils were considered to come from Jews and Poles are long over in Ukraine and those nationalists who have to hate someone, are happy to hate Russia and the Russians as you can easily see in Misplaced Pages too. Similarly, among the Polish editors it is more unusual to see much criticism of Ukraine now even on controversial UA-PL issues. Russophobia is much more in fashion among all extremists in the Eastern Europe than hatred towards any other ethnic group or country. --Irpen 23:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Criticisms of communism

Hi! I've been working on a rewrite of that article, including material from Ultramarine as well as from my own research, over at User:Nikodemos/sandbox, but also offline. The only thing I've got left to rewrite is the economic development section (my sandbox is lagging behind my actual progress). I should be finished with it by tomorrow or the day after. So as to avoid creating parallel versions again, might I ask you to hold off any major edits until you see my rewrite? -- Nikodemos (f.k.a. Mihnea) 16:29, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

P.S. You might want to vote here. -- Nikodemos (f.k.a. Mihnea) 16:29, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Cold War

What's going on? If this turns into an edit-war I have to remove the AID-nomination. I am getting the impression there is some sockpuppeteering involved and also, there is no dispute over content, just calling each other vandals. For example, what is wrong with the content of the statement about Korea you keep removing?--Fenice 07:43, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

The Korean peninsula remains a hotspot. The states of North Korea and South Korea (and her allies) also technically remain at war because although a truce is in effect, no formal peace treaty was ever signed. As a result, tension still remains high on the Korean peninsula, especially since North Korea announced its acquisition of nuclear weapons.

According to the talk page you are only disputing the positioning of this addition. It appeared strange to me that you removed it completely because it is so much a part of common knowledge that I think it does not even need a footnote. (Inline citations are badly needed in this article.) I am sure you are unnerved by constantly having to explain the same thing until you get around to rewriting it. Still it is on the AID now and attracting even more attention. I am getting the impression that you are dealing with a new user who simply has a very essayistic style and makes additions to a text that is already to long. That is not what is typically happening on the AID typically. The text needs changes in structure and contents, not more text. This should be discussed first, I'll start a section on the talk page of Cold War.--Fenice 08:11, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right.Daanschr 14:05, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Reference: your message about AID Cold war. I will surely try to give some inputs. Regards. --Bhadani 14:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Che13.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Che13.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Misplaced Pages because of copyright law (see Misplaced Pages's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images on Misplaced Pages is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Misplaced Pages are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. You can get help on image copyright tagging from Misplaced Pages talk:Image copyright tags. --OrphanBot 09:39, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Stalin

He was directly responsible for starting and enforcing waves of executions, which killed hundreds of thousands, and deportations to labor camps and labor colonies where approximately one million died from 1934-1954.

If I read this correctly, Stalin is being said to have been responsible for a vague range of 1.2-2 million deaths (not counting famine). These are not the only numbers floating around and you know this. So why are you reverting to this version? --TJive 11:14, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I did not write the sentence quoted above. In the context of the paragraph in which it was inserted, my understanding of the reading was not that Stalin was said to have been responsible for a "vague range of 1.2-2 million deaths" over the course of his rule. Instead, the sentence to me read as if it were referring specifically to deaths in the Gulag resulting from the Great Purges, not the famine. In the future please take concerns like the above to the relevant talk pages, not user talk pages. 172 20:38, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

3RR

(posted to 172 and Ultramarine). Please be very careful of the 3RR on Holodomor. I'd hate to have to block either of you. -- Pakaran 07:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm watching the time windows, which indeed is quite a sad practice. By the way, the talk page is illuminating. Notice that the edits in question have been thoroughly discussed for a week and now all of a sudden Ultramarine is jumping in without saying a word on talk. What does one do with an editor whose idea of building consensus is forcing other editors to play games with the 3RR? 172 07:59, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Anti-bullying petition

fyi: Silverback decided he didn't want to remove his comments about you (that he added to his signature on the anti-bullying petition), so I removed his signature entirely, along with your comments about it. If you need the diff it's here: --Ben 09:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. It's your user page, so it's your prerogative. Still, thanks for trying to be even-handed. 172 09:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Asteroid deflection strategies won!

Joseph Stalin

User:Simonides seems to have broken 3RR. Should we report him? --Ghirla | talk 12:54, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Holodomor

I am a review debate, but except 100К your flud I do not see the constructive offers. Not it is necessary to delete coordinated versions. I have only returned source coordinated version. --Yakudza 14:05, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Woo, self-flagellation, yeah, that feels gooood! *ahem* I wish I could help, but I'm already caught up in some major pet projects on the wiki (now that I finished my overhaul of Criticisms of communism, for example, I need to defend it), as well as a bunch of real-life stuff. If the dispute isn't resolved any time soon, though (which it probably won't be), I'm sure I can come in to help eventually. -- Nikodemos (f.k.a. Mihnea) 08:24, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

2003 invasion of Iraq

Hi, thought you might take a look at the discussion. 84.59.102.68 14:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Request for comment

I don't have enough expertise to assess these edits. Perhaps you do. Cheers, Ghirla | talk 14:57, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/KDRGibby

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/KDRGibby. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/KDRGibby/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/KDRGibby/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Kelly Martin (talk) 01:59, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Just inquiring, are you intending to post evidence? We just need one last bit in order to make the thing complete. Elle _{vécut heureuse} (Be eudaimonic!) 01:08, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks from Lulu

WP:RCU

I believe the guys at WP:RCU could be interested in comparing this with this. P.S. You may want to archive this page, as it takes quite some time to download. Cheers, Ghirla | talk 14:22, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Rummel

Hi, Just saw your vote on why rummel is always right. I get very confused by this I've closely read the article and I have failed to see any strong POV in there. It seems to me like a possibly too technical description of the research happened by various authors in the field, with lots of the technical discussion of the terms as I would expect in an academic field.

Could you explain what is POV about it? --Salix alba (talk) 22:09, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Hiya, Happy new year.

I don't know if it would interest you but there is a vote to delete a template called Defban which is used to deal with vandals who post defamation on the site. Splash doesn't seem to grasp that it is not a breach of no legal threats but a template created after consultation with arbcom members to protect WP from defamation postings and to make sure those posting such stuff know they are leaving themselves legally at risk of being sued. I'd be interested to hear your opinion. It is on WP:TFD. Merci, FearÉIREANN\ 00:49, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

thank you for defending the truth

Category:Real Americans

Architecture of Africa - new AID collaboration

Kronstadt Uprising

Can you take a look at the recent additions? They may need NPOVing. --Ghirla | talk 11:53, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Inauguration12.jpg

Arb.

Hi, "abe," I'm sure you remember me? (it's been a while I know)...anyway I noticed the arb-com reopened your case, and if you need a character witness or any sort of help feel free to email me (I'm going to send you my personal email address)

Also, I'd vote to re-syosp you, despite our past differences, because I feel you are a wonderful contributor to the project. --Plato 03:53, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Sofia won!

Input on category

Hi 172: I don't necessarily want to draw you into yet another one of those endlessly hard to maintain articles :-). But I'm curious for your input on a rather narrow issue. Basically, I've taken on the informal job of keeping the article Ward Churchill sane... i.e. not letting it turn into an editorial copied from Bill O'Reilly, condemning Churchill in the most POV terms possible. Far more work than it should be, as you can probably guess. Refactoring part of the material (to conform with WP:SIZE, firstly) into Ward Churchill (misconduct allegations) helped some.

Anyway, that's just background, here's the narrow question. Churchill has a somewhat ambivalent relationship to Marxism. I added Category:Marxists to the article a while back (but notably not Category:Marxist theorists). Another editor took it out, but then indicated on the talk page that s/he was not aware of Churchill's sympathetic, but not uncritical, books addressing Marxism. That stuff is on the talk page. I don't think the category inclusion is obviously correct, but I also don't think it's obviously incorrect. To my thinking, it's more a question of providing a useful category to browse thinkers in a related tradition.

Well... basically, I'd just like your input on whether the category tag should be in the article. You can comment in the section on Talk:Ward Churchill that discusses this. I don't want to add it back myself, and I'm not sure how you might opine. But if you feel inclusion is useful, I'd value your opinion (and let you add it)... or likewise, I'd value your opinion that inclusion is wrong. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 21:25, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey,

Yup. Its that time again, another msg from me about a controversy. :-) Another dispute is on which might be of interest to you. You probably have heard of the US periodical, The Nation. It is one of a number of publications that exist or have existed using that name. However some US Wikipedians have decreed that all other publications of that name must be shunted off to a disam page with the US publication given sole custody of The Nation page, even though neither it nor any other publication with that name is international nor widely known outside each state's border. The confusion this causes can be seen in the fact that people making entries to the Thailand newspaper, the British magazine, the famous 19th century Irish paper, etc usually end up innocently creating links to the US periodical page on The Nation rather than the obscure disamb page (which is only found by a link at the top of the US article). It is blatently wrong.

The dispute is at Talk:The Nation. FearÉIREANN\ 21:11, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

DPT

I noticed that you were active as an editor for DPT in the past, and well I would like to request your help. It seems that the use of Rummell's research has been abused and is the primary source for the article. Any opposing viewpoint that has been interjected seems to be reverted off. I am afraid that this article has strayed from its original intent. I am requesting help due to the fact that I have some experience with DPT, however I am a beginning grad student and I am afraid that I might be ill equipped to tackle this alone. If you are not interestd in reengaging in this "conflict" any ideas on countering the prevaling Rummell arguments? I know that he's not really accepted in academia, but I can't find any way to prove this... -- Scaife 09:00, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Remember User:Paektu?

I remember you interacted with him a few times. Tell me, why did Paektu suddenly quit Misplaced Pages on 7-25-2003? The Block Logs showed nothing. And was he really from Pyongyang? I saw on a "Wikipedians in Korea" page a long time ago that he was from Pyongyang. If so, how do you know. I hope to hear from you soon. --Shultz 18:44, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Hiya, No. Don't worry. I'm telling you about another damned vote. lol. You should however take a look at the opening of George W. Bush for a laugh, specifically the opening paragraph. I've been trying to produce a reasonable encyclopaedic opening paragraph but one user knows so little about how to write an opening section that he insists on putting nonsense about Bush's period as a sports manager into the opening paragraph (!!!) while demoting the date when Bush leaves office down a couple of paragraphs. It is a garbled mess that would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic. Jeez. Do they teach these people know to write in schools anymore? Or how to assess the importance of information? If people in my university submitted essays with that standard of writing the essay would be returned to them with the instruction "rewrite it properly this time." Sometimes the low standards on Misplaced Pages give me the creeps. OK. That's my rant for the night over. Time to go to bed I suppose. Take care. FearÉIREANN\ 06:04, 12 February 2006 (UTC)